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Too_Many_Tools
04-14-2010, 12:24 PM
Suggestions for an one man portable gantry crane needed.

I look at what is on Ebay and see nothing that a single man could erect without assistance.

http://business.shop.ebay.com/Industrial-Supply-MRO-/1266/i.html?_nkw=gantry+crane&_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282

Also a question...if one stacks two I-beams is the combination equal to one larger I-beam of the same height?

Example...if one stacks and bolts together two 4" I-beams are they as strong as one single 8" I-beam?

TMT

snowman
04-14-2010, 12:32 PM
Where are you trying to erect it? A little creativity goes a long ways!

If you put a pivot at the base of your gantry, so that the vertical beams will pivot into position, you can lift it most of the way up with a small hydraulic jack...then have a pin that slides into position. Instead of 2 casters, you could have four for each "leg", so that it would sit in place. You would lay the cross beam (top) down first. Connect both vertical pieces to it. Now bring the bases, with their wheels into position, placing the pivot bolt in each side. Now, using a fabricated holder, put your hydraulic jack (or high lift jack) into position and start jacking the vertical members up. Once it gets to a certain point, you will be able to manually push it the rest of the way, or use a comealong to pull from the opposite side of the hydraulic jack. Make a brace so that it can't go past 90 degrees. Now you bolt it in to position, preferably with pieces of strap iron, creating a triangle on the base.

I too have to do things with one person. :-) Right now I'm turning my hydraulic press into a cherry picker to move a 300 lb production mill. I moved it with a buddy last time and it was still too heavy. This will be a much safer way.

Too_Many_Tools
04-14-2010, 12:39 PM
I have found myself several times where I need to move a machine (500-1200 pounds) in tight quarters by myself at a remote location (basement/second floor) at a moment's notice.

It would seem that a portable ONE MAN setup/teardown gantry crane would be a logical acquistion.

There seems to be little available.

TMT

Bruce Griffing
04-14-2010, 12:40 PM
Are two stacked I beams equivalent.... No, not unless they have the same web thickness, the same cap thickness and are welded together. Any slip along the junction of the two beams weakens the combination. Bolting them together cannot be counted on to prevent a small amount of slip.

Too_Many_Tools
04-14-2010, 12:55 PM
Are two stacked I beams equivalent.... No, not unless they have the same web thickness, the same cap thickness and are welded together. Any slip along the junction of the two beams weakens the combination. Bolting them together cannot be counted on to prevent a small amount of slip.

Thanks for responding to this question.

I understand the limited slippage issue but wouldn't it be limited by the bolts.

TMT

dr pepper
04-14-2010, 12:56 PM
I wonder if its feasable to make something, like an engine crane, you build up one a frame and assemble it into an engine crane affair, then build up another a frame flat and join the crane rail to it (using the engine lifter), then use the a frame engine crane end to lift up the other end of the crane rail, then bolt it up to itself, a one mane semi self erecting gantry, the engine lift section being able to be used on its own for small jobs.
Another crazy idea.

Too_Many_Tools
04-14-2010, 01:30 PM
I guess one of the big issues I see with an ONE MAN portable gantry crane is how do you get the I-beam mounted...when you are trying to mount it above your head height.

One approach is to break the I-beam into manageable pieces..making the final I-beam component from a series of smaller LIGHTER I-beams.

Another approach would be to use an aluminum I-beam...3x lighter the steel equivalent.

One of the basic design requirements is to make each of the components of the grantry crane light enough so one man can handle them...with some of them being handled above one's head while you assemble them. The portability of the components also are important when you have to haul the crane downstairs, up to a second story floor or roof.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
04-14-2010, 01:33 PM
I wonder if its feasable to make something, like an engine crane, you build up one a frame and assemble it into an engine crane affair, then build up another a frame flat and join the crane rail to it (using the engine lifter), then use the a frame engine crane end to lift up the other end of the crane rail, then bolt it up to itself, a one mane semi self erecting gantry, the engine lift section being able to be used on its own for small jobs.
Another crazy idea.

A good idea.

I have seen very small light "engine cranes" used in the hospital industry to lift patients that could be modified to lift an I-beam.

TMT

RancherBill
04-14-2010, 02:04 PM
This is a great site with the product that you are looking for.

Take some time and browse the toal site and all their models. They answer so many questions and have so many good ideas. I know you will like it.

http://www.wallacecranes.com/

I know when I get around to making one, this site has a huge number of answers to styles, beam loading and designs .

Bruce Griffing
04-14-2010, 03:04 PM
If you can lift one end of the cross beam a short distance, you could make uprights with a series of support holes. The crane would be set up with the cross beam at the bottom initially. You would gradually raise the beam, moving one end up a few inches at time followed by the other end. The uprights would need to be freestanding for this to work.

snowman
04-14-2010, 03:28 PM
If you can lift one end of the cross beam a short distance, you could make uprights with a series of support holes. The crane would be set up with the cross beam at the bottom initially. You would gradually raise the beam, moving one end up a few inches at time followed by the other end. The uprights would need to be freestanding for this to work.

Seen this before with boat trailer winches as well. Makes it easy to make it telescope.

fahnoe
04-14-2010, 03:45 PM
I have a Wallace A28-8 aluminum adjustable height gantry that works quite well for one person use. It's still somewhat of a job to take down and move, but it has seen use in the garage, down the basement, and out on the driveway. If it were steel, I don't think I'd be so inclined to move it around! The Wallace cranes aren't cheap (I found the best price at Hoists Direct when I bought mine), but as with other well made tools, mine is a pleasure to use.

--Larry

Alistair Hosie
04-14-2010, 04:06 PM
Mark Jones Aboard epsilon made a great one of these a while back turned out really good.Alistair

Your Old Dog
04-14-2010, 04:14 PM
Does it absolutly have to be dismanteled and stored under a bench or could you just build it and store it over and around another piece of equipment like a drill press. Why the need to be able to take it apart often enough that it has to be done by only one person? I use an engine lift with foldup legs in my shop but I don't disassemble after each use, just push it out of the way.

Too_Many_Tools
04-14-2010, 05:18 PM
Does it absolutly have to be dismanteled and stored under a bench or could you just build it and store it over and around another piece of equipment like a drill press. Why the need to be able to take it apart often enough that it has to be done by only one person? I use an engine lift with foldup legs in my shop but I don't disassemble after each use, just push it out of the way.

The need for breakdown and portability by one man is because I am looking for a solution that can be brought down into a basement or up on a second floor to reach the machine in question. The components need to be light enough and short enough to be able to be moved in tight areas.

I also already have a engine crane that I can break down and haul the components to the machine. Unfortunately engine cranes have bottom legs that often get in the way because machine base is too wide....a REAL pain when you are trying to move a machine safely.

TMT

Ohio Mike
04-14-2010, 07:05 PM
The need for breakdown and portability by one man is because I am looking for a solution that can be brought down into a basement or up on a second floor to reach the machine in question. The components need to be light enough and short enough to be able to be moved in tight areas.

I think you just quoted the Wallace Crane marketing material :D
Wallace makes some nice stuff. I just saw one today in one of the shops where I work. Asked about it and the guy says "yup nice crane we're sending it out as excess..." I start to stutter and he continues "no one wants to pay to have it certified again". Oh well I'll keep an eye on it now ;)

camdigger
04-14-2010, 07:07 PM
I'd post mine, but the safety nannies would have a bird.


Editted P.S.

Ahhhh WTH. Here goes. All is plain J55 tubing. (roughly Sh 80) the crossbar and legs are 2 3/8 (2`nominal ID), the end brackets are 2 7/8 (2 1/2`) nominal ID. All welds are 7018. I`d rate the capacity at 1000 lbs with a 6`cross bar(longer cross bar would decrease load rating). It all knocks down to fit through a standard mandoor and I put it all together alone inside a building 8 x 8 x 7 6. The electric winch was installed to help me pull my well pump assembly, run new plastic casing in our water well, and rerun the pump. Worked a treat. Took longer to fab up the casing tools than the rest of the project.

http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx301/camdigger/gantryend.jpg

Too_Many_Tools
04-14-2010, 07:39 PM
I'd post mine, but the safety nannies would have a bird.


Editted P.S.

Ahhhh WTH. Here goes. All is plain J55 tubing. (roughly Sh 80) the crossbar and legs are 2 3/8 (2`nominal ID), the end brackets are 2 7/8 (2 1/2`) nominal ID. All welds are 7018. I`d rate the capacity at 1000 lbs with a 6`cross bar(longer cross bar would decrease load rating). It all knocks down to fit through a standard mandoor and I put it all together alone inside a building 8 x 8 x 7 6. The electric winch was installed to help me pull my well pump assembly, run new plastic casing in our water well, and rerun the pump. Worked a treat. Took longer to fab up the casing tools than the rest of the project.

http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx301/camdigger/gantryend.jpg

Thanks for posting...got pictures of the base of the crane?

TMT

camdigger
04-14-2010, 07:55 PM
What base?:D

The legs are plain chop saw cut pipe. I see no need to do any thing more sohisticated. If the floor is precious, I'd through a good size piece of OSB or plywood down to protect the floor.

My bad. I just noticed the end brackets are actually fabbed from couplings welded to the cross tube with the legs threaded in. The next one I make will simply be slip-on sleeves. All held together by gravity and friction..:D

HAP
04-14-2010, 08:11 PM
I made an overhead gantry crane by welding 2 3x5" I beams side-by-side. I attached the assembly to the free standing beams of my shop using giant 3/4" U bolts that I fabricated. I made soame supporting legs that can be positioned at any point along the beam of the crane. It has a trolley and I rated it to 1Ton. I had the same question about stacking the two I beams. I spoke to a stuctural engineer and explained to him my idea and he said I would be better off welding them side-by side to increase the load carrying capcity of the web. I'll be happy to send pics of it to anyone who would like to see it. I guess I do not have permissions to attach photos like others?? The photo bucket thing just sounds too time consuming.
HAP

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac106/HAPSHOP/Shop%20Stuff/DSCN4561.jpg

HAP
04-14-2010, 08:55 PM
OK. I just did the phototbucket thing, now let's try it. Here is a photo of the one I made. The legs have a little "fish eye" effect from the lens. The legs are attached via slots in the flange and can slide along the entire 12' lenth. So I can put them where I need them. I also have one of those hydraulic hoist scales which alows me to monitor actual weights as I use it.

Regards.

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac106/HAPSHOP/Shop%20Stuff/DSCN4562.jpg

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac106/HAPSHOP/Shop%20Stuff/DSCN4561.jpg

psomero
04-14-2010, 09:44 PM
Also a question...if one stacks two I-beams is the combination equal to one larger I-beam of the same height?

Example...if one stacks and bolts together two 4" I-beams are they as strong as one single 8" I-beam?

TMT

no, they won't be the same strength.

beam loading is a complex subject. at the least, if you're going to try it, you need to weld the two beams together, but it won't be as strong as one big beam

Jim Shaper
04-14-2010, 09:55 PM
^ Interesting idea.

I'd be curious how the double flanges would affect the deflection resistance of the beam? Typically, clear span i beams don't fail from the web breaking, but rather the flanges flexing outwards and twisting/folding the web.

The way you increase the strength of an i beam is by capping it with channel (the legs of the channel come down around the flange of the beam). This increases the stiffness across the flange, but does nothing to increase the load capacity of the web.

I agree that the bonding method would be a critical aspect, but if it was properly bonded, it might be a viable solution.

Too_Many_Tools
04-14-2010, 10:01 PM
Thanks for responding on the beam question.

But I do not understand WHY it would not work.

Could someone provide a link to where this subject would be covered?

Thanks

TMT

HAP
04-14-2010, 10:09 PM
The way it was explianed to me is that if you are using a trolly, then all of the load is relly carried by the web and flange of the lower beam. Thats why I went side-by-side, which in theory, doubled the web but not the flange...?

Jim Shaper
04-14-2010, 10:17 PM
As was said, beam loading is a complex issue. I don't think you'll find anything posted online to support any specific application of such an assembly due to liability alone.

The cost associated with doubling smaller beams would likely exceed the expense of buying the larger beam, so I'm not sure you'd find it for that reason as well.

The reduced web thickness of the smaller beams will also contribute to greater tendency to "roll" when loaded, so you'd need additional vertical supports, and that again negates any benefits.

I have two 24' 12" runway beams in my shop and then the bridge beam is 15"x20' - total cost delivered a couple years back was $2400. I don't recall the weight per foot off hand (the runway's were 840# and the bridge was 860 IIRC), but they're the spec'd beam sizes and then some based on Coffing's beam/span chart.

What you're asking for is what a ME is paid to do, and their insurance is then paid to back them up on. I don't think you're likely to get a direct concrete response on the net unless it's someone outlining precisely why they wouldn't sign off on it.

J Tiers
04-14-2010, 10:34 PM
As for the man-portable part......

Toting it being a separate issue, assembly need not be hard....... even with heavy parts that you don't want to lift..

if you set it up so the ends stand up by themselves, you can use a gin pole or the like to help lift the crossbeam to the top of the ends. it might actually lift via the end itself, or be separate, the pole perhaps being later utilized again as a brace so you need carry only working parts of the crane.

the whole issue of stacked beams is completely inefficient. A beam has a lengthwise shear stress down the middle of the web. Shear tends to move two items or parts of the same item relative to one another..... sliding, typically.

if you use two beams of half the height, they operate as two independent beams AND WILL SLIDE/MOVE RELATIVE TO ONE ANOTHER unless you tie/peg/bolt them TOGETHER so this "shear" is resisted, and tehy cannot move relative to one anotehr.

if you DO tie them, there is a lot of metal (top flange of one, bottom flange of other) which is on the "neutral axis", where the forces are lengthwise shear, not the compression or tension which the flange is intended to resist. The web alone would resist the shear, the flanges are just extra metal that is not utilized.

Flanges are useful mostly on the top and bottom, to add area and width to resist tension, compression, and buckling.

So a larger beam is the same as two smaller beams, WITH THE WEBS WELDED, AND THE TWO UNUSED FLANGES CUT OFF.....

Too_Many_Tools
04-14-2010, 10:37 PM
As was said, beam loading is a complex issue. I don't think you'll find anything posted online to support any specific application of such an assembly due to liability alone.

The cost associated with doubling smaller beams would likely exceed the expense of buying the larger beam, so I'm not sure you'd find it for that reason as well.

The reduced web thickness of the smaller beams will also contribute to greater tendency to "roll" when loaded, so you'd need additional vertical supports, and that again negates any benefits.

I have two 24' 12" runway beams in my shop and then the bridge beam is 15"x20' - total cost delivered a couple years back was $2400. I don't recall the weight per foot off hand (the runway's were 840# and the bridge was 860 IIRC), but they're the spec'd beam sizes and then some based on Coffing's beam/span chart.

What you're asking for is what a ME is paid to do, and their insurance is then paid to back them up on. I don't think you're likely to get a direct concrete response on the net unless it's someone outlining precisely why they wouldn't sign off on it.

Thanks for your info.

The concept of one larger I-beam versus two smaller I-beams stacked on top of each other or side by side would seem to be a relatively simple statics problem. I am asking for any links so I can go do the problem myself...not that someone else has to.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
04-14-2010, 10:38 PM
The way it was explianed to me is that if you are using a trolly, then all of the load is relly carried by the web and flange of the lower beam. Thats why I went side-by-side, which in theory, doubled the web but not the flange...?

Makes sense...thanks for the insight.

TMT

Jim Shaper
04-14-2010, 10:50 PM
Even going side by side isn't going to double the capacity of the beams individual strength without some other form of bracing. Bracing can make up for lack of geometry in the beam, but the runway (be it flange from above, or track from below) still needs to support the load.

Look at how i beams fail, and I think you'll find the examples for some of the answers you aren't accepting from us.

A beam in compression will fail from above, just like a beam in tension will. Keeping the web vertical is the battle which is faced when dealing with this type of application. In both cases the top flange bows, then the web buckles and the whole thing folds in half.

There's a lot of fabricated trusses used for crane beams. The problem then lies in compound failures - your joints, or your material. I beams are simple solutions to a problem which have very little probability of failure in a given application, which is then supported by a lot of documentation to correctly apply the material to the task.

J Tiers
04-15-2010, 12:28 AM
Actually, if both beams are within their ratings, and if they share perfectly, you could get double from two..... If and IF......:rolleyes:

but that never happens..... so you probably get 140% or so from two...... figuring that you must allow 30% for not sharing well....

For a centered load, the total carrying capacity is shared between teh two rail beams... closest to good sharing you are going to get... but don't move off-center with a max load!

Too_Many_Tools
04-15-2010, 01:28 AM
Okay...so if two stacked smaller I-beams are bolted together why are their combined web not equivalent to the web of a larger I-beam?

TMT

Bruce Griffing
04-15-2010, 01:31 AM
Because bolting them together does not prevent a small slip - something that would weaken the assembly. It is, as was suggested above, an inefficient way to support the weight. If you want a light cross member that will support lots of weight, build a truss. Think of the structure on the sides of old RR bridges.

Too_Many_Tools
04-15-2010, 09:20 AM
Because bolting them together does not prevent a small slip - something that would weaken the assembly. It is, as was suggested above, an inefficient way to support the weight. If you want a light cross member that will support lots of weight, build a truss. Think of the structure on the sides of old RR bridges.

Good idea...anyone have pictures of small portable gantry cranes constructed with a truss member?

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
04-15-2010, 09:26 AM
Perhaps a different angle for the discussion...

For the horizontal member of the gantry crane, which is best performance...an I beam, a round member (pipe), a square (square tube) or a rectangle (rectangular tube)?

Material wise...steel or aluminum?

TMT

camdigger
04-15-2010, 10:33 AM
Perhaps a different angle for the discussion...

For the horizontal member of the gantry crane, which is best performance...an I beam, a round member (pipe), a square (square tube) or a rectangle (rectangular tube)?

Material wise...steel or aluminum?

TMT
No where in any of your posts do I remember a load rating?

My construction projects are largely governed by a combination of what I want to do vs what I have available.

My portable gantry was built to help me lift stuff I could handle on good ground, but was too awkward to get to and or handle (ever lifted one end of a vertical 40' long pipe?:D ).

Design for something rated to 1000# and capable of being erected working alone is vastly different than a 5T ginpole....

Material choices are similar. In most of my ventures $ is a big concern. I don't have a stock of cheap aluminum and no comparatively easy local supply. Pipe is readily accessible and cheap (to me at least), so it is the material of choice for most construction. I beams and HSS square sections are more effficient load bearing members in compression and bending, but are an order of magnitude or two more expensive for me, aluminum is 4 - 5 times the cost of steel local to me.

For equivalent linear weights, bending load performance of different sections is, in descending order, 3-d truss section, I beam, Rectangular HSS (2:1 - 4:1 H/W ratio), square, pipe, solid square, and solid round.

My $.02 YMMV

bob ward
04-15-2010, 01:06 PM
Good idea...anyone have pictures of small portable gantry cranes constructed with a truss member?
TMT

I'll take a photo in a few hours of a larger truss member demountable gantry that I have made. Its larger than what you are looking for but the principles will scale down.

Mine is on 8" castors and will straddle a truck, ie its 8 foot plus wide and has 10' to the underside of the truss. I have a trolley that runs along the truss and a chain block mounted to the trolley.

I made it in 3 bolt together pieces, ie the 2 side frames and a truss and its all made from 50 x 50 x 1.5 (2 x 2 x 1/16) RHS. Its very light and very strong, fabbing and assembly was all a 1 man operation. I forget at the moment what loads I designed it for, heaviest load I've had on it is 1100kg.

Do you know your ideal design parameters, length, width, height, lifting capacity?

dave5605
04-15-2010, 02:09 PM
My only degree is from the school of 'Redneck Engineering' but here is how I might approach it. I'm not going to pick material sizes. Just going to show idea. I'd use square/rectangular tubing for most of the fabrication, and whtever I needed for the actual beam.

Build two A frames about 3' high and a suitable base to put two casters on each one. The middle of the A has a square tube coming down perpendicular from the apex of the A to the horizontal member the casters are on. It also sticks up above the apex of the A at least a few inches.

Weld some stub tubing on the bottom of the A so you can connect the A frames with a piece of removable tubing (that slips in to the stubs) so they don't fall over. Picture the bottom bar of a car body rotisserie that connects the two sides.

This should allow you to get the A frames standing straight up the appropriate distance apart.

Build your appropriate beam with short (1'?) steel tubing sleeves welded on each end at 90 degrees to the beam. Use the same size steel tubing that was used in the A frame vertical tubes.

Now get two short (3"?) pieces of tubing that will slip OVER these sleeves and weld them on/over to the 1" pieces on the ends of the beams. One on each side. Just nest them 1/2" or so on the tubes on the beam ends.

If this is still making any sense you now can set the beam on top of the A frames and the 3" pieces of tubing will keep it there steady since it is nested on top of the A tube.

Now use two pieces of tubing for your long uprights of the gantry. Whatever height you want. Size them so they nest without binding in to the A frames and the 1' long beam ends. Drill some holes in them so you can put pins in place to hold the beam at various heights. Sort of like adjusting the table on a hydraulic press.

Slip the vertical tubes in to the previously set up beam/A frames.

Now all you need is some kind of cable/crank mechanism setup on each end to raise/lower the beam. Again, sort of like how you adjust the table on a cheap hydraulic press. Couple of pulleys, cable or two, ratchet mechanism, etc.

Some appropriately placed bolts or pins will keep the beam at the needed height, stop everything from falling apart and make it pretty solid.

Now remove the original bar that was between the two A frames (no longer needed since the gantry is now fully assembled.

The highest you have to lift anything is about 3' and no one piece is overly awkward/heavy.

Too_Many_Tools
04-15-2010, 10:02 PM
No where in any of your posts do I remember a load rating?

My construction projects are largely governed by a combination of what I want to do vs what I have available.

My portable gantry was built to help me lift stuff I could handle on good ground, but was too awkward to get to and or handle (ever lifted one end of a vertical 40' long pipe?:D ).

Design for something rated to 1000# and capable of being erected working alone is vastly different than a 5T ginpole....

Material choices are similar. In most of my ventures $ is a big concern. I don't have a stock of cheap aluminum and no comparatively easy local supply. Pipe is readily accessible and cheap (to me at least), so it is the material of choice for most construction. I beams and HSS square sections are more effficient load bearing members in compression and bending, but are an order of magnitude or two more expensive for me, aluminum is 4 - 5 times the cost of steel local to me.

For equivalent linear weights, bending load performance of different sections is, in descending order, 3-d truss section, I beam, Rectangular HSS (2:1 - 4:1 H/W ratio), square, pipe, solid square, and solid round.

My $.02 YMMV

Thanks for the info.

I have deliberately not mentioned a weight capacity because I would like to discuss the broader subject without narrowing the field.

For my purpose, I expect to construct a 1500-2000 pound capacity gantry crane. That range should cover the average HSM stuff like a Bridgeport and 12" lathe.

For materials I have access to a variety of metal stock, both steel and aluminum.

Your comments about portability is noted.

In fact I was thinking today that we needed to discuss more in detail the features that make a crane more portable...any takers?

TMT

Farbmeister
04-15-2010, 10:10 PM
I made a gantry using 2 12"x2"x12' spaced by 4 4"x4"x4" and 4"x4"x10's as legs.

Held WELL over a ton (3500 is a good estimate).

Would NEVER move a gantry under load... there is to little support to the legs.

Too_Many_Tools
04-15-2010, 10:19 PM
A site that should interest members...

http://www.engineeringcalculator.net/beam_calculator.html

TMT

Neil Jones
04-15-2010, 11:01 PM
Thanks for the info.

In fact I was thinking today that we needed to discuss more in detail the features that make a crane more portable...any takers?

TMT

Nothing so far in this tread on what you wrote above or even a link that shows a truly portable crane that can easily be transported and erected by one man.

J Tiers
04-15-2010, 11:20 PM
probably, the more one-man-portable the crane is, the more time it will take to set up...... because teh pieces are smaller....

The side supports can be in pieces, that might fit or bolt or screw together, because they are largely in compression, and could be set on top of one anotehr, almost. bracing can be added with fairly small struts....

The killer is the crossbeam. that would probably need to be a pin-joined truss to be portable, in several pieces, unless you can "man-port" about as much as I weigh (200 lb) And there goes your set-up time....

You can do almost anything once, but setting up, taking down, etc, can really make the process a hassle, both for you, and for the seller, as I assume you would ideally come, extract the machine, set on trailer, and go.....

I moved the small mill.... it was a real hassle, and all I did was to take the table off, basically unscrewing the leadscrew, then undo 4 bolts and take the upper part off the base. The parts were then lifted into the truck by hand. Seems simple, but...... The seller assumed that 'anuone" would lift the whole thing up and take it as a unit.

Seems to take forever when the seller has your money, and someplace else to go....... And is saying things like "I sold a couple turret lathes and those guys impressed me..... brought in dollies, and a jack, and had those lathes out and going on the truck without taking nothin apart... easy as pie, and they were on their way in 15 minutes".

I just can't see pinning the truss together and so forth as taking any less time.....looks like a lot of 'commencing to start to begin".

The game might not be worth the candle

Smokedaddy
04-15-2010, 11:37 PM
Maybe "something" like this ...

http://www.plansandprojects.com/portable.htm

-SD:

Too_Many_Tools
04-16-2010, 12:56 AM
Well it is not for the lack of trying on my part. ;<)

How's this for an example?

http://www.hospitalrigging.com/

TMT

Bruce Griffing
04-16-2010, 01:08 AM
If you watch riggers move large machines, they almost never lift them very high above the ground. There are of course exceptions to this, but to move a machine you generally only need to lift it a few inches. I would not want a gantry crane. I would probably rarely use it, if ever. OTOH, I have GKS Perfekt trolleys, toe jacks, and a very heavy pry bar. I also use a hydraulic lifting table (good for 1000lbs) for some moving tasks. The other day, I moved my CNC mill (8k lbs.) to a new position in the shop. I did it by myself in about 30 minutes using my jacks and trolleys.

Jim Shaper
04-16-2010, 01:44 AM
Bruce, I use my bridge crane to move my machines around the shop. Doesn't take more than a couple minutes after throwing the straps under em. ;) The 10000lb turning center is the exception - that needs rollers.

I do agree though, that I don't lift them any higher than necessary to clear the high spots in the middle of the floor (due to settling). Maybe a half inch at the lowest point after they come off of what they came in on.

An actual rolling gantry is very limited in application due simply to the space the crane requires to be cleared to move the whole works through space. It would've been a complete nightmare to use one to move my surface grinder from the front to the rear of my shop; I only had a 30" wide "slot" to run the machine through. Making the contraption big enough to engulf the variety of machines you want to move means that it's also going to be too big to get a machine close to something else without likely also repositioning that item.

If I only had one option for "moving kit" - I'd be going with the roller pads as well. They're also dirt simple and easily shop-built with far less tragic results if a calculation is wrong or a weld fails.

Bruce Griffing
04-16-2010, 01:55 AM
Jim-
Don't forget to include the assembly time for a gantry crane in your estimate. Few have the space to keep one assembled (maybe you are an exception). I would gladly race anyone putting my stuff up against a dissembled gantry crane.

Jim Shaper
04-16-2010, 02:28 AM
I don't have a gantry - I have a bridge crane. It's been installed for 2 years. It ain't coming down unless I move. ;)

Gantries occupy far too much usable space to be practical. I can "fly" anything I need to around the shop at a moments notice. With how tightly packed all my crap needs to be just to get new machines in past the old ones, I couldn't possibly make a rolling gantry function in my shop.

hardtail
04-16-2010, 02:51 AM
I almost agonized over the romance of a bridge crane........LOL, the problem was my construction design of my shop didn't incorporate it structurally so it would have to be freestanding with some accompaning loss of wall space.......then the much greater cost and finally some pathetic load ratings on an impressive looking system when things are hooked midspan......they have to be the cadillac of lifting systems though........

Back to the OP's question, I don't like to harp on one mans accomplishments but Mickey D's build deserves much credit, he explains how versatile it is and how it was built for one man to tear down and setup........

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=383438&postcount=10

I agree with the available floorspace issue, mine was constructed out of pipe so I can store it at about an 87 degree angle in the corner but I concede you need the room to move it around.......one thing I will say is that it is mobile enough to go outside and lift a 6000 lb engine out of a bulldozer.....the alternative is building a floor strong enough to bring a 40K machine inside.

Jim Shaper
04-16-2010, 03:21 AM
Mine's semi-free standing. It incorporates ties to the walls to reduce the need for heavier corner posts (bending forces on a 10' lever are quite severe, so three of the posts are tied into corners of the shop, the other is attached across 3 studs on a flat wall). This triangulates the walls with the uprights and transfers any deflection into the sheer walls (which are 2x6 construction).

The reality is that it doesn't occupy much wall space at all aside from the posts, and those live quite innocuously along side the machines and my storage solutions these days. Total cost was under 3K, and it was worth every penny!

What you do lose is the ability to have power drops from your ceiling, and that means you have cords on the floor or need to have horizontal free-air conduit runs to your machines that aren't on a wall. I consider it a small price to pay since I'm not willing to cut into my 6" slab to lay lines in the floor.

hardtail
04-16-2010, 04:01 AM
Agreed the posts don't occupy a lot of space but the space they do is permanent........perhaps the biggest negitive factor if one can critique a bridge assembly is that they require more headspace for a larger beam required to carry a healthy load on a greater span.......that must be factored in with your load placed mid span and halfway between side supports, this is where the ratings crumble.

I had the pleasure of viewing a senoirs shop a couple weeks ago that was a steel structure and he revealed that he had all the components to build a full bridge system of around 3 to 5 ton capacity IIRC, when I enthusiaticlly revealed that I would be getting on that he confessed that at 68 he didn't know if it would ever be done as he losing some steam and after years of doing without one and with his type of work getting lighter he questioned if he needed it.......but it was ready for any future owners........LOL

Just venting the pros and cons of any design and if possible I would have one in a minute........

J Tiers
04-16-2010, 08:25 AM
If you watch riggers move large machines, they almost never lift them very high above the ground. There are of course exceptions to this, but to move a machine you generally only need to lift it a few inches.

Rollers and skates are great...... but they have a problem with the last 4 feet of movement...... which are straight UP.....or DOWN

Skates just don't get anything onto the truck, or off of it. They are great if you are dealing with a facility that has a dock, so long as you have a very good dockplate, or skates that can handle some serious irregularity of the floor.

But does YOUR shop have a dock? I know some will, but most will NOT. So you have to get the item into/onto the truck, or trailer, and then back off/out.

or if there IS a dock, but your truck/trailer isn't at dock height.

metalmagpie
04-16-2010, 09:31 AM
TMT, if you use a 1500 pound rated lifter to lift a Bridgeport you better buy some real good insurance.

There is a machine called a Genie Superlift which is made mostly of aluminum and is on casters. It is used to lift beams into place all the time. Mine can lift 500 pounds 18 feet high. I use it to raise/lower the height on my shop-made adjustable gantry. With one, you might be able to erect a sizable gantry with one man.

I think the best solution for YOU would be to build a rolling shop crane like an engine hoist but with a wider base. Use it to pick up machines and put them on pallets. Then use a pallet jack to move them around. Pallet jacks work great. Really.

metalmagpie

metalmagpie
04-16-2010, 09:33 AM
Rollers and skates are great...... but they have a problem with the last 4 feet of movement...... which are straight UP.....or DOWN

Skates just don't get anything onto the truck, or off of it. They are great if you are dealing with a facility that has a dock, so long as you have a very good dockplate, or skates that can handle some serious irregularity of the floor.

But does YOUR shop have a dock? I know some will, but most will NOT. So you have to get the item into/onto the truck, or trailer, and then back off/out.

or if there IS a dock, but your truck/trailer isn't at dock height.

I use skates or a pallet jack to move machines out and under my gantry in my driveway, which I then use to lift the machine for loading.

metalmagpie

Too_Many_Tools
04-16-2010, 12:25 PM
TMT, if you use a 1500 pound rated lifter to lift a Bridgeport you better buy some real good insurance.

There is a machine called a Genie Superlift which is made mostly of aluminum and is on casters. It is used to lift beams into place all the time. Mine can lift 500 pounds 18 feet high. I use it to raise/lower the height on my shop-made adjustable gantry. With one, you might be able to erect a sizable gantry with one man.

I think the best solution for YOU would be to build a rolling shop crane like an engine hoist but with a wider base. Use it to pick up machines and put them on pallets. Then use a pallet jack to move them around. Pallet jacks work great. Really.

metalmagpie

So what rating would you want for a PORTABLE Bridgeport capable gantry crane?

Thanks for the lead to the Genie Superlift...

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200336940_200336940

I agree that a pallet jack is handy...so which one should a person have?

They come in many sizes and shapes.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
04-16-2010, 12:29 PM
Back to the OP's question, I don't like to harp on one mans accomplishments but Mickey D's build deserves much credit, he explains how versatile it is and how it was built for one man to tear down and setup........

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=383438&postcount=10



I agree...his design is one I am considering.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
04-16-2010, 12:32 PM
A question...with a gantry crane...what are the pros and cons of a T frame versus a A frame crane?

Too_Many_Tools
04-16-2010, 12:34 PM
Also for this discussion...how about discussing the pros and cons of the Harbor Freight gantry crane?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41188

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
04-16-2010, 12:38 PM
Rollers and skates are great...... but they have a problem with the last 4 feet of movement...... which are straight UP.....or DOWN

Skates just don't get anything onto the truck, or off of it. They are great if you are dealing with a facility that has a dock, so long as you have a very good dockplate, or skates that can handle some serious irregularity of the floor.

But does YOUR shop have a dock? I know some will, but most will NOT. So you have to get the item into/onto the truck, or trailer, and then back off/out.

or if there IS a dock, but your truck/trailer isn't at dock height.

Very well said.

I have moved machines miles in minutes...and spent hours moving the same machine a few inches up or down...wishing I had something to make it faster...like a gantry crane. ;<)

TMT

Jim Shaper
04-16-2010, 01:43 PM
Agreed the posts don't occupy a lot of space but the space they do is permanent........perhaps the biggest negitive factor if one can critique a bridge assembly is that they require more headspace for a larger beam required to carry a healthy load on a greater span.......that must be factored in with your load placed mid span and halfway between side supports, this is where the ratings crumble.

Mine's only a 20' span for the bridge, and the loaded span for the runways is something right about 20-21'. I have a 15" bridge beam which sits 1/4" below my lights (t5's surface mounted to the ceiling), so it's still 9'7" up or so at the bottom of the flange. This is why I went top running, because I have 12" runways and those sit at 9.4" at the bottom flange. My max hook height is right around 8'6" with an 11'1" ceiling and standard size 2T trolley. While this doesn't work so good for pickup bed loads (couldn't get a machine in a bed under the 8' door anyway), it's perfect for anything that can come in on a trailer, or anything that's been brought in with a fork lift.

I have no regrets of losing a couple square feet at the corners. In fact, my lathe headstock is outside of one of them and it works out as though it wasn't there as far as floor space is concerned. That would've been dead space anyway.

My shop is behind my house and I was limited to 11' ceiling height due to our house not being any taller. lol Damn codes...

J Tiers
04-16-2010, 08:44 PM
I use skates or a pallet jack to move machines out and under my gantry in my driveway, which I then use to lift the machine for loading.

metalmagpie

At ONE end of the trip you do, what about the other? Move the gantry with the machine?

hardtail
04-16-2010, 09:28 PM
A question...with a gantry crane...what are the pros and cons of a T frame versus a A frame crane?

I think the A frame are better........heres a link thats an engineered blueprint to build one.......U choose your needs and design........

http://www.lkgoodwin.com/more_info/cranes_all_types/gantry_and_tripod_cranes/gantry_and_tripod_cranes.shtml

JS.......20' span is relatively small for a bridge, that one should handle some decent load w a good 15" S beam, of course you could probably lift 3x's the amount near the wall and by a support post but theres always that nagging SWL and FOS........LOL Being able to hook something at any place and move it any other is an enviable thing..........LOL

Jim Shaper
04-16-2010, 11:46 PM
Inside dimension of the shop is only 22.5', so my runway beams are something like 16" from the walls.

I have a 10' deep room built into the back of the shop, so I stopped short of putting the runway all the way to the back wall (there's storage above that room, so the bridge beam can't sweep above it). It also would've added monumental expense to have 33' runways over the 24' runways I went with.

Coffing's beam sizing chart is based on 5:1 safety factor. I've moved 4700# across the full range of coverage with no worries many times (I consider it designed for 4000). I'm pretty sure I could probably lift the turning center, but my trolley isn't rated for it (neither is my chainfall hoist) and I don't want to pick that via cables. The wheels I used for the bridge trucks are also only rated at 8000#.

metalmagpie
04-17-2010, 01:44 AM
So what rating would you want for a PORTABLE Bridgeport capable gantry crane?

I agree that a pallet jack is handy...so which one should a person have?


Well, a Bridgeport mill is 2500 pounds regardless of the portability of the thing that lifts it.

My buddy, whose pallet jack I borrow, has one with 36" forks. It is immensely easier to maneuver it in a tight space than the ones with the more-common 48" forks.

MM

Jim Shaper
04-17-2010, 03:46 AM
Bridgeports aren't that heavy. 1800# or so.

Too_Many_Tools
04-17-2010, 12:50 PM
A question...with a gantry crane...what are the pros and cons of a T frame versus a A frame crane?

Let's add to the list the inverted Y frame that I see..

So...a T frame, A frame and inverted Y frame..pros and cons?

TMT

hardtail
04-18-2010, 06:17 AM
TMT heres the ultimate gantry........a lil bit of both.......thats 12 tons on the hook..........obviously portable........LOL

http://www.kingofobsolete.ca/sigfusson-CAT_SALVAGE.htm

mike9940
09-11-2010, 02:49 PM
[QUOTE=Too_Many_Tools]Suggestions for an one man portable gantry crane needed.

I'm new to the forum but have my own machine shop that makes aluminum gantry cranes. I make a 2 tonne unit (4400 lb. capacity) with a lift height of 90 in. to the ring (take off 15 in. for the chain hoist). This unit weighs 240 lbs. and can be fitted with a 15 ft. beam. It has lots of safety built in as we test our units to 150% of working load (6600 lbs.). The beam is a 3x6" box beam that weighs just 5 lb. per foot.

My website is www.easilymovedequipment.com. These units are very popular with rental stores who rent them to HVAC contractors, mechanical contractors, demolition contractors, etc.

They aren't cheap but are very portable. The above unit can be transported in a standard pickup and assembled in about 6 minutes with two wrenches. Because of its design you can roll a 2 ton load across a good floor as the casters lock to make the gantry a dolly and the beam trolley locks to the beam.

If interested I can send you photos of how I assembled a unit out back of my shop.

Mike Flynn
Ft. Erie, Ontario, Canada