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View Full Version : Buying used equipment on fleaBay cautions



Your Old Dog
04-18-2010, 09:04 AM
I don't think this topic has come up yet but might keep someone from getting internally threaded.

Pass on advertisements that have any of the following in them:

1. Belongs to a cop and I'm selling it for him.
2. My neighbors a machinist and he says it works fine.
3. I haven't used it but the guy I bought it from said it works great.
4. Once belonged to the Earl of Bridgeport & Sudspumpwater over in the UK
5. It is ALISTAIR GREEN but I didn't paint it that color.





Anyone think of any others that might save someone from getting hosed?

gda
04-18-2010, 09:08 AM
"We have no way to power up this machine but it worked when taken out of service . . "

Your Old Dog
04-18-2010, 09:09 AM
"We have no way to power up this machine but it worked when taken out of service . . "

How in the hell could I have forgotten that one? :D

Dr Stan
04-18-2010, 09:11 AM
5. It is GREEN but I didn't paint it that color.

or, it's blue . . .

andy_b
04-18-2010, 09:36 AM
We just bought this building and need all this old junk cleaned out ASAP.

andy b.

Twmaster
04-18-2010, 09:47 AM
It has a little rust but will clean right up!

metalmagpie
04-18-2010, 09:50 AM
D'ya ever notice how when someone's selling a car with an eye-popping odometer they're always "highway miles"? Well, the equivalent on machine tools is no matter what the oxidation layer is it's always "light rust".

MM

websterz
04-18-2010, 09:51 AM
One gear is missing a couple of teeth but you can find a replacement on Ebay...

vpt
04-18-2010, 10:11 AM
sub 50 feedback.


Needs some work.

Looks to be in good condition.

Only used for wood.

Twmaster
04-18-2010, 10:13 AM
Rebuilt in our shop. = fresh paint.

"A coat of paint hides a multitude of sin." -- Ken Branamen

JoeFin
04-18-2010, 10:36 AM
NEVER Ever Ever Ever buy a machine you don't first inspect under power and expect it start up and run fine. Any thing less then that and it is all a "Crap-Shoot" - price accordingly

Given the vast number of members here at HSM from many various locations across the USA, Canada, and Western Europe, frankly I am quite surprised we don't have more request for "anyone in the area of XYZ willing to inspect a machine for me - I will cover your gas and lunch"

The added benefit of inspecting machines are the "other" little goodies the seller might have and be willing to part with cheap in hopes of making a sale

Too_Many_Tools
04-18-2010, 10:44 AM
"Cash, Cashiers Check or Money Order Only"

Paypal is the only way to go.

J Tiers
04-18-2010, 10:57 AM
crazy duplicate remonved

J Tiers
04-18-2010, 11:07 AM
D'ya ever notice how when someone's selling a car with an eye-popping odometer they're always "highway miles"? Well, the equivalent on machine tools is no matter what the oxidation layer is it's always "light rust".

MM

" SURFACE RUST"




Given the vast number of members here at HSM from many various locations across the USA, Canada, and Western Europe, frankly I am quite surprised we don't have more request for "anyone in the area of XYZ willing to inspect a machine for me - I will cover your gas and lunch"



Dunno, do YOU want to be the freakin idiot who didn't notice that the framus-shifter was all messed up and have people hating you on account of that after they buy the machine on your recommendation?

I'll buy items that are definitely *not perfect* (known issues, wear, etc) for myself...... but even with the best instructions on exact tolerance level for repairs etc, to get a recommendation to a 3rd party from me it has to be about perfect. Which is also an issue when "taking along a more experienced person " to check a machine..... That person will likely feel held to a higher level of perfection.

Perfect machines are rare.... most have an issue, and the most perfect probably still has some idiocy perpetrated by the previous owner. if you demand perfection, buy new..... HAH.....

Miss out on too many good machines demanding perfection.

Too_Many_Tools
04-18-2010, 01:03 PM
" SURFACE RUST"



Dunno, do YOU want to be the freakin idiot who didn't notice that the framus-shifter was all messed up and have people hating you on account of that after they buy the machine on your recommendation?

I'll buy items that are definitely *not perfect* (known issues, wear, etc) for myself...... but even with the best instructions on exact tolerance level for repairs etc, to get a recommendation to a 3rd party from me it has to be about perfect. Which is also an issue when "taking along a more experienced person " to check a machine..... That person will likely feel held to a higher level of perfection.

Perfect machines are rare.... most have an issue, and the most perfect probably still has some idiocy perpetrated by the previous owner. if you demand perfection, buy new..... HAH.....

Miss out on too many good machines demanding perfection.

LOL..Or buy too many "good enough" machines and never be able to afford the "perfect" machine.

It took over ten years for me to find an used Bridgeport with a "PERFECT" table...well worth the search.

Same goes for many other "PERFECT" tools I have picked up on life's journey...well worth the effort waiting for the best.

It's like selecting a wife...you can wait and watch for the best or make do with the "good enough". ;<)

TMT

Black_Moons
04-18-2010, 01:36 PM
Never buy a machine from KBC tools unless you want it to not match up with its discription in the catalog... or the picture in the catalog...

Never buy a machine from people on ebay with less then 99% feedback.. hell, never buy anything from less then 99% and look twice at anyone below 99.5%

Never buy from airsmith, because surely his 4 year old lathe has 30,000 hours of use on it by now. *snickers*

gnm109
04-18-2010, 03:26 PM
No negative feedback whatsoever on seller's record. I won't buy anything if there is even one negative anymore.


.

Toolguy
04-18-2010, 04:05 PM
I have a KBC and a JTS catalog. They are both identical in every way except the cover and phone numbers. Every page has exactly the same items and prices. Therefore, the above warning probably goes for JTS too.

Tony Pratt
04-18-2010, 04:08 PM
I judge the feedback on its merits. I have built up my 100% feedback on nearly 400 transactions over 4 plus years but it only takes 1 di** head to spoilt my perfect average. I agree that Paypal is the only way to go as I got burnt when I paid by cheque for some razors against my better judgement and got stitched up along with many more suckers by a very clever criminal.

Tony

bob308
04-18-2010, 04:19 PM
the ones i stay away from. i don't know anything about this machine i am not a machinest i am selling it for a friend.

MuellerNick
04-18-2010, 04:46 PM
In Germany, they advertise every crap with "Has only been used in aprentices' shop".

Maybe it's different in the USA. But here, an aprentice gets a dedicated training with instructors that beat the hell out of you if you abuse a machine. And every Friday is cleaning day with close inspection.
So normaly, they are in mint condition and were never used for production work.


Nick

form_change
04-18-2010, 04:59 PM
Ones that I pass on are adds with only one or two photos (far enough away not to show detail); ones where the seller won't answer questions or if they do are surly about it - I once looked at a small item where the seller didn't state a weight so I asked for a postage post and was abused because I'd only given my town and not the postcode.

On the other hand are people being a little bit picky buying a 50 year old machine and expecting it to have minimal to no wear, a full set of accessories and original documentation? When I buy second hand I expect things to be missing or needing restoration - I get some enjoyment out of sorting out some of these things (beats shuffling paper in the day job).

Michael

Black_Moons
04-18-2010, 05:19 PM
MuellerNick: lol! here that would mean expect holes drilled into the table of the mill and dings all over the lathes ways.

Toolguy
04-18-2010, 05:25 PM
Yes - students and apprentices here are really hard on machines because they don't know what they're doing.

deltaenterprizes
04-18-2010, 05:56 PM
MuellerNick: lol! here that would mean expect holes drilled into the table of the mill and dings all over the lathes ways.
Not quite that bad at my school but the carridges did get crashed. Excuse the spelling error.

J Tiers
04-18-2010, 06:46 PM
Not to worry..... no more school machines anyway, the schools all sent them out for melting, or auction.

Liability was too high, and there are no jobs for machinists anyway, all that is done in china now. So those nasty machines have been cleared out and all that pollution isn't happening here anymore.

I'm gonna be REALLY HARSH here.....

if you are not capable of doing machine repairs, then buy new, or take up online gaming instead.

Frankly, if you can't fix the machine you have, or are not willing to learn, you shouldn't own it, or be running it, in a home type shop. Those are basic skills, and not being capable of learning them, or being totally uninterested, says nothing good about the likelihood of being a reasonable machinist.

I regard machine repair, making tooling, making fixtures, and machining parts as all one big picture.

I can sympathize with not WANTING to, particularly if you have paid your dues and want to get on with it. But demanding a used machine that is perfect, unworn, ready to have power connected and go, is asking too much, and very very limiting in the number of machines you can possibly find.

What it says is that you want to buy new, but at a much lower price......

JoeFin
04-18-2010, 08:32 PM
Dunno, do YOU want to be the freakin idiot who didn't notice that the framus-shifter was all messed up and have people hating you on account of that after they buy the machine on your recommendation?

Oh but you'll buy a machine on the seller's word

99% of these Jack Arses selling crap on Eboner with a 99.9% rateing screem and cry over the phone when I call them up to tell them their listing was B.S. and I want my money back.

But then of course YOU have already paid the freight on 4000lbs of paper weight - now who would be the Idiot then

dp
04-18-2010, 08:49 PM
I bought a SB 4" 4-jaw chuck from a PM member last year and it arrived well packed. I didn't need it until I got a rotary table which happened a couple weeks ago.

So a few days ago I got out the chuck and pulled the back off and checked the fit on the table. Perfect. I made up some T-nuts for the chuck - it's a bolt-thru design. After all that I put it in my lath to skim it and when I pulled the jaws out, one fell out. The threads were shot in the bore.

That was a $60 lesson - even a minor inspection on the seller's part would have revealed a product that should have been scrapped or sold for parts only. That is not how it was advertised, of course.

Why would someone sell obvious scrap?

Too_Many_Tools
04-18-2010, 09:33 PM
I bought a SB 4" 4-jaw chuck from a PM member last year and it arrived well packed. I didn't need it until I got a rotary table which happened a couple weeks ago.

So a few days ago I got out the chuck and pulled the back off and checked the fit on the table. Perfect. I made up some T-nuts for the chuck - it's a bolt-thru design. After all that I put it in my lath to skim it and when I pulled the jaws out, one fell out. The threads were shot in the bore.

That was a $60 lesson - even a minor inspection on the seller's part would have revealed a product that should have been scrapped or sold for parts only. That is not how it was advertised, of course.

Why would someone sell obvious scrap?

Because they can...and did.

FWIW...many years ago I had the same experience.

I remember the lying SOB's face that sold it to me to this day.

TMT

J Tiers
04-18-2010, 09:42 PM
Oh but you'll buy a machine on the seller's word

99% of these Jack Arses selling crap on Eboner with a 99.9% rateing screem and cry over the phone when I call them up to tell them their listing was B.S. and I want my money back.

But then of course YOU have already paid the freight on 4000lbs of paper weight - now who would be the Idiot then

Not this boy...... I generally figure the seller for either an idiot, ignorant, or a crook.... And I look it over very well in person.

I am not an "ebay member", which has been disadvantageous, but at least I haven't got "took"...... I only have been disappointed in ONE personally inspected purchase..... and I did see that one run. it was a filer, and I thought I could fix the problem. I could, but I decided I really did NOT want to. Problem was a sloppy plunger on an ancient Milwaukee.

I sold it to someone else who I think is a member here, with as full disclosure as I could do..... he decided it would be OK for him despite the problem, and as far as I know it has been.

Too_Many_Tools
04-18-2010, 10:34 PM
Not this boy...... I generally figure the seller for either an idiot, ignorant, or a crook.... And I look it over very well in person.

I am not an "ebay member", which has been disadvantageous, but at least I haven't got "took"...... I only have been disappointed in ONE personally inspected purchase..... and I did see that one run. it was a filer, and I thought I could fix the problem. I could, but I decided I really did NOT want to. Problem was a sloppy plunger on an ancient Milwaukee.

I sold it to someone else who I think is a member here, with as full disclosure as I could do..... he decided it would be OK for him despite the problem, and as far as I know it has been.

LOL..a story.

Years ago I bought a stereoscope from a guy in NY..sent the money...got the scope weeks after its promised shipping date...without its eyepieces.

Call the guy up...told him of the problem..he said too bad.

What he did not know that I was going to be on a plane to NY the next day on business.

So I take a side trip later and look up my little weasel of a seller.

The look on his face when I walked into his shop and told him who I was and what I was there for was priceless.

I got my eyepieces. ;<)

TMT

gary350
04-18-2010, 10:55 PM
I sold on ebay for 9 years and quit ebay a year ago. I have absolutely no sympathy of jerk buyers expecially people that look at the pictures then bid without reading the auction. Next thing you know the jerk wants a full refund and leaves me negative feedback like the problem was all my fault.

There are some worthless A## H### sellers that should be shot dead as H###.

Several times I have sold things on ebay that I had no idea what it was or knew absolutely nothing about the item and I would say so in the auction. I will tell people up front, "I know absolutely nothing about this item, look at all the photos, ask me lots of question, if you have any doughts at all DON'T BID because I don't want it back. If it doesn't sell the scrap yard will buy it."

I had someone give me a free lathe. I think it was probably built before the turn of the century. I was told it ran but it was setting in the middle of a parking lot and there was no way to hook it up. It was 18 ft long and very heavy. I listed it on ebay for $9.99 just hoping someone out there would be thrilled to death to have it, the $9.99 was only to pay the ebay fees auctions are not free. No one bid because I could not answer questions about something I knew absolutely nothing about. I left it in the parking lot, the owner moved away, the new property owner called the scrap yard and had it hauled off.

JoeFin
04-18-2010, 11:13 PM
Not this boy...... I generally figure the seller for either an idiot, ignorant, or a crook.... And I look it over very well in person.

I've won a couple of machines in auction but I always inform the seller I'll be there to inspect the purchase before handing over the cash. I won a Matsura CNC Mill for $1000 and when the auction ended at 3:30 AM sent the guy a message telling him I would be over that evening to inspect the machine.

He had it relisted before 12:noon and Eboner wouldn't do a thing about it

Guy had a problem and was up all night listing machines. That 1 ran fine and was only 10 miles away from me but I didn't want to have any thing to do with some crack head

beanbag
04-18-2010, 11:53 PM
light scratches ---> tool has been horribly crashed

.RC.
04-19-2010, 01:27 AM
But here, an aprentice gets a dedicated training with instructors that beat the hell out of you if you abuse a machine.

Must have been the instructors day off.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38lFuolhn3g


Although going by the sounds they are making this machine was installed in a special school...

macona
04-19-2010, 03:13 AM
I've won a couple of machines in auction but I always inform the seller I'll be there to inspect the purchase before handing over the cash. I won a Matsura CNC Mill for $1000 and when the auction ended at 3:30 AM sent the guy a message telling him I would be over that evening to inspect the machine.

He had it relisted before 12:noon and Eboner wouldn't do a thing about it

Guy had a problem and was up all night listing machines. That 1 ran fine and was only 10 miles away from me but I didn't want to have any thing to do with some crack head


Ebay dosnt work like that. Once you bid and win its yours. You are contractually obligated to buy it. If you want to inspect a machine do it before the auction closes.

Just like at a live auction if you buy something its yours. Dosnt matter if you discover on the way out that its missing something, you bought it.

MuellerNick
04-19-2010, 03:15 AM
Although going by the sounds they are making this machine was installed in a special school...

Certainly not in Germany (but we do have idiots here too! More than necessary). Can't hear enough complete sentences to judge what language. Part sounds like Spanish or Italian.


Nick

Machtool
04-19-2010, 03:19 AM
Although going by the sounds they are making this machine was installed in a special school...

Those kids are Swedish. I can tell because they sound like this guy, and there all Muppets.

http://modernlv.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/swedish-chef.jpg

MuellerNick
04-19-2010, 04:54 AM
These (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCwz5jrpzXQ) are real German idiots[tm]. At 4000 RPM.
And maybe he (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeDGYTFgIyo) is their instructor.
And he (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq35f70yfSI&NR=1) might get it after a week or so.


Nick

.RC.
04-19-2010, 05:15 AM
Ahh OK, I see now they are Swedish and not German...I thought the only thing to come out of Sweden was ABBA not machinists :D

I am not even going guess what nationality this machinist is... Or maybe was since the video ends abruptly.. :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-Y8FvTgHzk

J Tiers
04-19-2010, 08:40 AM
Certainly not in Germany (but we do have idiots here too! More than necessary). Can't hear enough complete sentences to judge what language. Part sounds like Spanish or Italian.


Nick

last time I was in Frankfurt, on business (big trade show at the Messeplatz), I had a day off, so I went for a walk.

Walked through one area and NOBODY was speaking German..... But there were a bunch on one side of the sidewalk in leather jackets, and another similar bunch on the opposite side, having a "discussion"...... Looked like something out of the 1950's, "Fonzie" hair and pointy shoes...I figured out that they were middle easterners of some sort, and that I was in the wrong area....

JoeFin
04-19-2010, 10:20 AM
Ebay dosnt work like that. Once you bid and win its yours. You are contractually obligated to buy it. If you want to inspect a machine do it before the auction closes.

Just like at a live auction if you buy something its yours. Dosnt matter if you discover on the way out that its missing something, you bought it.

Sorry Macona - Eboner does work that way

If you go over to the PM site you can probably dig up the thread I started about it including the response from Eboner suggesting I complete the transaction even when the guy had the machine relisted up for auction.

Mr "Up-All-Night-on-Drugs" was pissed off he only got $1000 for the machine. 2nd time around it only fetched $1054.

13,000lb mills with 30 year old Anilam Crusader Controls arn't going to fetch big dollars.

Biggest "Red-Light" for me was he didn't want to give me a reciept. Hell I didn't even know if it was his shop, or he was left there to look after the shop while the owner was on vacation.

2nd thing was - even thou there was a couple of manual mills, lathe, surface grinder, and a couple odds and ends - NOT 1 SPEC of SWARF

No Chips - No Stock

That and the guy is obviously "High as a Kite"

No Thanks

MuellerNick
04-19-2010, 12:21 PM
Looked like something out of the 1950's, "Fonzie" hair and pointy shoes...

Ah, did you meet them, the Leningrad Cowboys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-IzLU6iWO8&feature=related)? :D

You might have to turn sound off! :rolleyes:


Nick

Too_Many_Tools
04-19-2010, 01:58 PM
Ebay dosnt work like that. Once you bid and win its yours. You are contractually obligated to buy it. If you want to inspect a machine do it before the auction closes.

Just like at a live auction if you buy something its yours. Dosnt matter if you discover on the way out that its missing something, you bought it.

LOL...apparently you haven't heard of the term "misrepresentation"?

If the seller engages in fraud, all bets are off.

With money at stake, civil and criminal charges can be filed.

For the record, I tend to be the buyer most of the time...and I love to see sellers "twisting in the wind" when they are caught trying to screw a buyer over.

TMT

macona
04-19-2010, 02:08 PM
Misrepresentation is one thing. But winning an auction and then expecting to get out of it because you may not like it after you see it is another. Inspection needs to be done before the auction ends.

Too_Many_Tools
04-19-2010, 02:51 PM
Misrepresentation is one thing. But winning an auction and then expecting to get out of it because you may not like it after you see it is another. Inspection needs to be done before the auction ends.


I agree..to a point.

How does a buyer inspect goods that are hundreds of miles away?

Or are we saying that sellers will sell to ONLY those who personally inspect the goods?

As a seller, you don't get it both ways.

Sellers running the asylum (and the accompanying lawsuits) is what has caused Ebay to become the wasteland it is today.

TMT

JoeFin
04-19-2010, 05:28 PM
Misrepresentation is one thing. But winning an auction and then expecting to get out of it because you may not like it after you see it is another. Inspection needs to be done before the auction ends.

If it is exactly as the seller has described that is all the reason you need

Besides - I ain't buying Sqawt from some Crack-Head

dr pepper
04-19-2010, 05:29 PM
Nearly everything in my home shop has come from eblag, and you sometimes get a surprise esp on something like a 70 year old myford, however I've never had a croc of shyte.

One of the best I heard while looking at a car someone was buying on eblag was 'I didnt race round in this car I was allways carefull...till I lost my licence'

pcarpenter
04-19-2010, 05:45 PM
One that I started to see with some regularity with machine listings from machinery dealers usually read something like "removed from a tool room where it was only used to machine plastic".

Based on some of the pictures it should have also read "....but it was previously located in a foundry where it was used to remove slag and excess casting sand".:rolleyes:

I know we are all telling our ebay stories and that the buyer must beware...but that doesn't give the seller a free license to intentional deceit by witholding known information. I bought a mill about 5 hours away from a company selling it off. There were several photos and very little description, but the few words they did bother to use to describe it mentioned that it had been rebuilt maybe 7 years earlier. Funny how they tell you the good parts without the bad. I now own it and indeed there are lots of new parts in it. However, the power feed unit had a tag on it in the picture but no visible writing.

If you know that the tag says "do not plug in" that probably should go in the description along with "it was completely rebuilt in 19xx". In the end, I picked it up on a Saturday with the help of some factory workers and placed a call the next week when I had it home, to the accountant who was selling it, and we arranged an acceptable reimbursement for the smoking power feed, but I still maintain that "as is" should include a description of any of the *known* "as's" from the get go...especially when they know that most of the world has only their pictures and description to go on.

Paul