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John Stevenson
04-24-2010, 06:04 PM
Well Ivan the Terrible has come to a sticky end, after 5 years of sitting there unloved and unused and finishing up as a shelf for rubbish and bit to be piled onto it I decided to sort it out.

It's a 10" swing by 20" BC Russian toolroom lathe with 3 Hp motor and 24 speed preselector box. Unfortunately it's an orphan, no makers name plate and no details at all, Very well built, it weights two tonnes which isn't bad for a south bend sized machine.

Getting it out from where it was in one lump for resale would have been very hard, my forklift can't manage this and the two I can borrow from across the road are too wide for access so resale it going to be a problem especially with the history thrown in, so the decision was made to scrap it.

Heavy is about £150 per tonne at the moment but this will class as oversize and won't fetch the same. So it got pulled to pieces in big lumps. Got the base and bed in the Donald at the moment ready for a trip first thing Monday followed by a pallet of headstock, gearbox, apron, screwcutting box and a laod more bits.

No pics, to dark but if I remember I'll post tomorrow.

.

.RC.
04-24-2010, 06:06 PM
You should have put the bridgeport next to him to keep him company on his long trip...

Black_Moons
04-24-2010, 06:36 PM
Shame.. if you havent destoryed the gearbox/headstock/screwcutting gearbox yet, What about offering them seperately on craigslist for a lark?

Seems like those 3 items at least might be worth it to someone.

I wonder how that 24 speed lathe gearbox might do in a gocart for a lark.
Or a little lawn tractor, lol.

philbur
04-24-2010, 07:04 PM
A 10" x 20" at 2 tonne. Sounds like Ivan had serious intentions when he designed that one. Shame you had to scrap it. Some photos for posterity would be nice.

Phil:)

Peter.
04-24-2010, 07:07 PM
Shame.. if you havent destoryed the gearbox/headstock/screwcutting gearbox yet, What about offering them seperately on craigslist for a lark?

Seems like those 3 items at least might be worth it to someone.

I wonder how that 24 speed lathe gearbox might do in a gocart for a lark.
Or a little lawn tractor, lol.

Not over here - no-one would want it. And we don't have lawns big enough to need tractors either, we have the Qualcast Concorde :D

oldtiffie
04-24-2010, 07:35 PM
Send it to in Elmira, New York, USA for melting down for re-use as a new/old BP - as a USA-made Ruscom mill made from good old Rusky-'merican iron - from good scrap to junk scrap - and the ultimate irony?

http://hardingequotes.com/index.asp?machID=23

I can just about image John in his Donald rocketing up to Hardinge and knocking on Hardinge's door and when asked "Who are you" replying "Bond - James Bond" and to the question "What have you there?" replying "From Russia with love"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Russia,_with_Love_(novel

Ian Fleming would have loved it.

Hardinge does have branches in Asia:

This multinational corporation has subsidiaries in England, Germany, Switzerland, China, and Taiwan, ROC.
from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardinge,_Inc.

Mexico next?
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&q=hardinge+take+over+offer&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=hardinge+take+over+offer&gs_rfai=&fp=eece95acef501675

oldtiffie
04-24-2010, 07:41 PM
John,

would that that "Ivan" be the Ivan as in Count Ivan Skavinski Scavar? - and where is his off-sider/compatriot "Abdul" as in Abdul the Bulbul-Ameer?

They would stuff anything - even Ivan the lathe.

MuellerNick
04-25-2010, 03:25 AM
There is a Russion toolroom lathe quite a smaller one:
http://www.cncecke.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=20019&stc=1&d=1268600210

The owner has the original inspection protocol. It was incredibly accurate.
Part of the protocoll:
http://www.cncecke.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=20007&stc=1&d=1268594811
Even if you don't understand neither Russion nor German, the numbers are in mm.


Nick

.RC.
04-25-2010, 04:03 AM
Part of the protocoll:
http://www.cncecke.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=20007&stc=1&d=1268594811


Nick

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Charles P
04-25-2010, 04:35 AM
John

Any useful salvage in the apron/taper turning department?

Charles

Peter.
04-25-2010, 04:41 AM
John,

would that that "Ivan" be the Ivan as in Count Ivan Skavinski Scavar? - and where is his off-sider/compatriot "Abdul" as in Abdul the Bulbul-Ameer?

They would stuff anything - even Ivan the lathe.

That advert must be 20 yrs old and I can still remember it :D

John Stevenson
04-25-2010, 05:48 AM
John

Any useful salvage in the apron/taper turning department?

Charles

The taper turning unit is a complete bolt on and carries the feed screw through a double nut system, it's unbelievably heavy [ read loads of dosh for scrap :D ] if I can rescue my camera from the kids party yesterday [ that's how come I got a day off ! ] I'll get some pics. The cross slide hand wheel is just a push fit onto splines on the screw.

Don't know what the back of the carriage looks like on a non taper turning CVA but this attachment is all flat faces so even though it won't be a bolt on it's probably the best bet you have.

Charles P
04-25-2010, 05:51 AM
The taper turning unit is a complete bolt on and carries the feed screw through a double nut system, it's unbelievably heavy [ read loads of dosh for scrap :D ] if I can rescue my camera from the kids party yesterday [ that's how come I got a day off ! ] I'll get some pics. The cross slide hand wheel is just a push fit onto splines on the screw.

Don't know what the back of the carriage looks like on a non taper turning CVA but this attachment is all flat faces so even though it won't be a bolt on it's probably the best bet you have.

John

Retrieve that camera - If it looks viable them I'm happy to recompense for the scrap mans loss!

Charles

John Stevenson
04-25-2010, 06:29 AM
Some of the bits on a pallet ready to go on Monday, the base is already in the van but it's a full load so i can't get this lot in.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/ivanbits1.jpg

Headstock, screwcutting box, apron and gearbox with motor attached.

The motor and gearbox used to lie horizontal in the base of the machine and drive up to the headstock on four 'B' section belts, bit overkill for a South Bend sized machine !!

Here you are Charles.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/ivanbits2.jpg

The double nuts are for adjustment. The back nut is secured to the cross slide by the two screws, same with the front nut but the screw holes are slightly slotted and an eccentric sits in the slot so you can wind all the backlash out.

The lower part of the TT attachment with the hold bar on it is dovetailed to the main casting and the screw is held in the top square housing on thrust bearings so that as it slides at an angle it pulls the cross slide.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/ivanbits3.jpg


All you have to do to engage it is fit the bed bracket and tighten up, you still have the cross slide handle to apply feed.

Simple but works.

Charles P
04-25-2010, 07:16 AM
Looks viable - certainly has all the main parts there.
If you don't mind slip it off the pallet and into a corner marked "Charles" please. I'll be along in the next couple of weeks with some folding.

Suprised that you're scrapping the motor as well. 3HP is a useful size far an idler on a rotary converter and flange mounts are handy in that use (not that I need one)

Charles

motorworks
04-25-2010, 09:15 AM
Hard to look at, but perhaps some part of it will end up in a nice place to live out its last days :)
eddie

quasi
04-25-2010, 03:44 PM
10x20, 2 tons. Did it look like a Rivett 1020?.

John Stevenson
04-25-2010, 05:47 PM
This is the old girl when it first arrived some years ago.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/ivan.jpg

The big dial on the front are the speeds, 12 high, 12 low and the lever at the side is the operating lever for the pre selector box, just pull and push when you want to change.

The bed and base is one solid casting.

dm1try
04-25-2010, 06:09 PM
it was a 1IS611V. it weights about 1200kg

http://vmmp.ru/~dmitry/1is611v.jpg

Black_Moons
04-25-2010, 06:15 PM
Aww come on man, save the motor at least if it still kicks over, you know you'll need it... *someday*!

John Stevenson
04-25-2010, 06:31 PM
it was a 1IS611V. it weights about 1200kg

http://vmmp.ru/%7Edmitry/1is611v.jpg

I'll find out tomorrow as it all going in two trips, fortunately the scrap yard is only 1/2 mile away.
I reckon it's heavier because my fort truck was struggling to lift the base into the van and it will handle 3/4 ton.

When I fetched it my 1 tonne engine crane wouldn't lift either end.

Black Moons, I don't need any more motors, I have about 8 or 9 brand new ones kicking about from old jobs and I do a lot of work for 3 major motor rewinders plus one motor importer.
If I need a motor for my personal use I can pick the phone up and one of the rewinders will sort me a good motor out and deliver it free of charge just to keep me happy.

jugs
04-25-2010, 06:43 PM
Shame on you john, looks like a nice machine, did you advertise it or was it kaput

John Stevenson
04-25-2010, 07:09 PM
Shame on you john, looks like a nice machine, did you advertise it or was it kaput

Tried to sell it for £250 but no takers, I've had it for sale for about a year and to be honest the space is worth far more.

dockrat
04-25-2010, 07:24 PM
Make sure to post a pic of the vacant floor space. Its a rare thing :D

jugs
04-25-2010, 07:35 PM
Tried to sell it for £250 but no takers, I've had it for sale for about a year and to be honest the space is worth far more.

'ollocks, wish I' known about it :mad: :mad: I like big solid ones

john :D

wierdscience
04-25-2010, 10:09 PM
Whatever you do John don't sell and of the parts on Ebay,otherwise you'll be a greedy capitalist pig:D

Arcane
04-26-2010, 12:39 AM
'ollocks, wish I' known about it :mad: :mad: I like big solid ones

john :D


Are you talking about yer machines...or yer wimmen! :D

dockrat
04-26-2010, 02:02 AM
Are you talking about yer machines...or yer wimmen! :D

In russia they are built about the same aint they??:D

John Stevenson
04-26-2010, 03:45 AM
No there are some nice ladies in Russia and they have qualifications that are rare in the West.

For a start most have a heavy goods licence and can drive fork trucks, a lot can weld titanium submarine hulls, they are used to cold weather so you can turn the central heating down and save a few bob.

Best of all though is if they come from the Belarus region you can read in bed at night with the light off :rolleyes: :D

oldtiffie
04-26-2010, 04:40 AM
Originally Posted by jugs
'ollocks, wish I' known about it I like big solid ones

john

Are you talking about yer machines...or yer wimmen! :D
I learn something new every day here.

I was not aware that machines or wimmen had bollocks - get those "big solid ones" 'cos if ya get lucky ya might appreciate 'em.

If having bollocks means being cocky, this may assist:
http://ittybiz.com/getting-more-jobs-are-you-cocky-or-do-you-have-balls/

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&source=hp&q=balls+to+you+cocky&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=balls+to+you+cocky&gs_rfai=&fp=eece95acef501675

John Stevenson
04-26-2010, 05:20 AM
Well the deed is done and it's gone.
Total weight was 1641 kg and this was minus chucks, backplates, taper turning and tailstock.

Weigh bridge price was £155 per tonne this morning.

That should get me a pie and a pint tonight.

.

Peter.
04-26-2010, 08:12 AM
You made £4.35 over your asking price and got to keep some spares too :D

Your Old Dog
04-26-2010, 12:52 PM
Too bad it wasn't enough to get you a train ticket to somewhere you could get a real meal :D Is English cuisine as rough as I hear it is? I've heard it compared to Alistairs sisters meat loaf but don't know if it's a fair comparison!!

Hey Tiff, if you're reading. I just got the Engineers Black Book today from Enco and think it's fantastic. Hell, had I know about this before I could have been a real maasheenist years ago !! Worth every penny I paid for it.

SDL
04-26-2010, 01:43 PM
Too bad it wasn't enough to get you a train ticket to somewhere you could get a real meal :D Is English cuisine as rough as I hear it is? .

For a country that came up with Grits, Biscuit and Gravy and MacDonalds that's Funny:D.

Steve Larner

John Stevenson
04-26-2010, 01:45 PM
I just got the Engineers Black Book today from Enco and think it's fantastic. Hell, had I know about this before I could have been a real maasheenist years ago !! Worth every penny I paid for it.

Without wanting to resurrect the same old imperial v metric discussion can some one who has a copy give a run down on how useful it would be to a metric user please.

I don't fancy buying a copy if like a lot of US printing, it's in old world units :D

Liger Zero
04-26-2010, 01:57 PM
Too bad it wasn't enough to get you a train ticket to somewhere you could get a real meal :D Is English cuisine as rough as I hear it is?

You have to keep an open mind. They like to use... other parts of the animal... in creative ways. Some of it was quite good, some of it was... well... not biscuits and gravy. ;) To be fair I sampled a few dishes from more than one source and they were still... not biscuits and gravy. :D

lazlo
04-26-2010, 04:00 PM
Without wanting to resurrect the same old imperial v metric discussion can some one who has a copy give a run down on how useful it would be to a metric user please.

I don't fancy buying a copy if like a lot of US printing, it's in old world units :D

John, I mentioned this last time you asked -- it's an Australian publication, and comes in both Imperial and Funny Unit versions :)

I love mine -- it's printed on thick, oil-resistant paper, and it spiral bound, so you can open it up to the "right" page and leave it open on your mill table or workbench. It has all the stuff you need on a typical day in the shop, without the other 2,000 pages of crap you don't need, like Machinery's Handbook. It's basically a Cliff-Notes version of MH.

On the Imperial version of the book, the Vitruvian Man has a Red, White and Blue background. On the Metric version, the Vitruvian Man has a yellow background. They need to make a version with both Imperial and Metric for the Brit's and the Canucks.

http://www.engineersblackbook.com/images/hex0.jpg

SDL
04-26-2010, 05:15 PM
Without wanting to resurrect the same old imperial v metric discussion can some one who has a copy give a run down on how useful it would be to a metric user please.

I don't fancy buying a copy if like a lot of US printing, it's in old world units :D

Best of the pocket books even has R8 in metric dimensions:D

Show you a copy at Harrogate if you want.

Steve Larner

John Stevenson
04-26-2010, 06:38 PM
OK Steve but I'm only there on the Saturday on my own ticket this time.
ARC isn't doing this show this year as they are in the process of moving to larger premises.

I'll probably base myself on Lester Caine's stand, Model Engineers Digital Workshop.

lazlo
04-26-2010, 06:44 PM
John, I'd gladly drop one in the mail for you, but we can only order the Imperial version over here :)

John Stevenson
04-26-2010, 07:12 PM
Thanks for the offer but I'll wait until I see the metric version.
J&L do them over here but as usual we are getting ripped off again.

http://www.mscjlindustrial.co.uk/BOK-57117J/SEARCH:KEYWORD/product.html

£30 from J&L which is about $45

I see it's $24.99 from Enco ????????

SDL
04-27-2010, 03:14 AM
OK Steve but I'm only there on the Saturday on my own ticket this time.
ARC isn't doing this show this year as they are in the process of moving to larger premises.

I'll probably base myself on Lester Caine's stand, Model Engineers Digital Workshop.

Thats OK. I'm there on saturday and will see you on that stand or around when I see you.

Steve

SDL
04-27-2010, 03:16 AM
Thanks for the offer but I'll wait until I see the metric version.
J&L do them over here but as usual we are getting ripped off again.

http://www.mscjlindustrial.co.uk/BOK-57117J/SEARCH:KEYWORD/product.html

£30 from J&L which is about $45

I see it's $24.99 from Enco ????????

Quite often on offer <£20, 3 or 4 friends from our ME club got a copy after they saw mine.

Steve Larner

Malc-Y
04-27-2010, 02:53 PM
Thanks for the offer but I'll wait until I see the metric version.
J&L do them over here but as usual we are getting ripped off again.

http://www.mscjlindustrial.co.uk/BOK-57117J/SEARCH:KEYWORD/product.html

£30 from J&L which is about $45

I see it's $24.99 from Enco ????????

I got mine from J&L a couple of weeks ago for £16.77 including next day delivery by UPS, well worth it! It is often on offer in their monthly flyer.

Malc. :cool:

The Artful Bodger
04-27-2010, 06:06 PM
Thanks for the offer but I'll wait until I see the metric version.
J&L do them over here but as usual we are getting ripped off again.

http://www.mscjlindustrial.co.uk/BOK-57117J/SEARCH:KEYWORD/product.html

£30 from J&L which is about $45

I see it's $24.99 from Enco ????????

John, I can get one in NZ for about 48 kiwi bux which is about 15 quid.

(Oops, might be nearer to 20 quid)

recoilless
04-28-2010, 02:42 PM
No there are some nice ladies in Russia and they have qualifications that are rare in the West.

For a start most have a heavy goods licence and can drive fork trucks, a lot can weld titanium submarine hulls, they are used to cold weather so you can turn the central heating down and save a few bob.

Best of all though is if they come from the Belarus region you can read in bed at night with the light off :rolleyes: :D

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7040/sovietshop.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/i/sovietshop.jpg/)

Looks like they are reading John's wish list for spare parts