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View Full Version : bought a new 5000 lb toy



Mcgyver
04-29-2010, 02:54 PM
This is a lathe I've wanted for a long time....they've been called the rolls royce of lathes.

It' a Dean Smith & Grace 13x42 weighing in a about 5100lbs. It has the high speed belt drive option, coolant, taper attachment, steady, following steady, jacobs chuck and collets, 4 jaw, 3jaw, second 3 jaw with soft jaws, centres, drill chuck, 7.5 hp, 4 way and drive plate....only thing its missing is a faceplate. mid sixties vintage.

It does metric and inch through the gearbox and also diametrical and modulure through change wheels. This is a different size and scope and quality of machine tool for me...I've a 10ee waiting restoration and it seems light weight in comparison....heck its so legit fastrack might even hang with me :D. For those that have seen my garage, wish me luck stuffing this puppy in - its 102"x36"


http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy132/michael01000/DSC_3855modLarge.jpg

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy132/michael01000/DSC_3844modLarge.jpg

somehow, its going in here lol

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy132/michael01000/shop09/shopbirdseye.jpg

Liger Zero
04-29-2010, 02:58 PM
Kinda crowded. Time to start looking at renting workspace or putting up a pole-barn.

Alistair Hosie
04-29-2010, 03:02 PM
Well done McYver that's a nice machine I wish you many many years of happiness together, keep well my friend, and Wow your shop is nearly as crowded as mine. JUST kidding, I have a little more space than you about an inch. :D Alistair

aostling
04-29-2010, 03:07 PM
According to Tony's website you have the "baby" model: http://www.lathes.co.uk/dsg/index.html. Some baby!

Mcgyver
04-29-2010, 03:19 PM
lol, yeah it will operate it from several yards away using an articulated broom stick mechanism :D I have a plan on fitting it in, gawd i hope it works.

country boy turned city boy.....pole barn not an option

Alistair, I came close to buying a Smart & Brown 1024 - that may be the ultimate lathe. not sure whether it or the 10ee would take the prize....what i think are pooched spindle bearings squashed it for me and then the DSG comes available with all the toys ....gotta love old British iron!

snowman
04-29-2010, 03:28 PM
somehow, its going in here lol

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy132/michael01000/shop09/shopbirdseye.jpg

Um...sorry, but no it's not. :-P

Tom S
04-29-2010, 03:34 PM
Why don't I take the Monarch, you keep the DSG, and we call it even? I'll even pick it up!

Mcgyver
04-29-2010, 03:45 PM
Tom, it would take a brave man to take the Monarch...ever scraped a hardened bed? me niether, but its going to sit in the corner until i figure that out...I did buy a 60" straight edge recently, so i'm thinking about it

The Monarch is nice because i've got every accessory for it but unfortunately the saddle oil lines were allowed to clog so preliminary inspections suggests its a major project. I've thought about getting it ground, will need to learn more about that...I know its expense but I'm also concerned will the job be to 10ee standards. I don't want to spend 1-2k for it to be so so .....Monarch i hear wants 8k to grind a bed...yeah like that's happening.....I'd even thought get it ground then scrape to make sure its dead on. like i say, needs a lot of courage, for now its gathering dust as i finish scraping top to bottom a tool and cutter grinder

Mcgyver
04-29-2010, 03:47 PM
Um...sorry, but no it's not. :-P

yee of little faith....watch me :D

that shot only showed 2/3'rds ....here's the rest of the shop. Everything in the pics except the shaper (gone) AND the DSG will fit....the Standard Modern lathe will be sold freeing room for even more tools lol. oh yeah, one red tool box is gone, but two lista's added. I fear four walls are about to hem me and my toolaholic behaviour in!

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy132/michael01000/shop09/shopbirdseye2.jpg

Tom S
04-29-2010, 04:47 PM
Tom, it would take a brave man to take the Monarch...ever scraped a hardened bed? me niether, but its going to sit in the corner until i figure that out...I did buy a 60" straight edge recently, so i'm thinking about it

The Monarch is nice because i've got every accessory for it but unfortunately the saddle oil lines were allowed to clog so preliminary inspections suggests its a major project. I've thought about getting it ground, will need to learn more about that...I know its expense but I'm also concerned will the job be to 10ee standards. I don't want to spend 1-2k for it to be so so l.....Monarch i hear wants 8k to grind a bed...I'd even thought get it ground then scrape to make sure its dead on. like i say, needs a lot of courage, for now its gathering dust as i finish scraping top to bottom a tool and cutter grinder

I've never scraped anything... but I guess now is as good of a time as any to learn. Right. Like my hands aren't full enough between work, buying a house, and getting the Rockford ready to go again.

Pherdie
04-29-2010, 05:06 PM
Damn, Mcgyver!!! You must be located in the epicenter of the old iron universe!!! No wonder there's none left for anyone else.

One more gloat like that and we're voting you off the 'island'. :D

Fred

(P.S. Nice score !!)

Mark McGrath
04-29-2010, 05:18 PM
I used to have one of these,they are nice little machines.Did you get the power drilling attachment for the cross slide?
Only weakness I`ve ever noticed with them is that the cross slide dovetail is very narrow and if you take a heavy interupted cut the toolpost nods up and down.
I have had Elliott mills the same as yours too.
Mark.

John Stevenson
04-29-2010, 05:25 PM
I think Tim Leech has the same model Dean Smitt and Grace.

I have always lusted after the one with the 7" spindle bore.

Hal
04-29-2010, 05:26 PM
I think your best chance of making it fit will be to stand it on end and make a vertical lathe out of it. :) Nice score.

Hal

lazlo
04-29-2010, 05:34 PM
Nice score Michael! I've never seen one in person, but from their reputation, they truly are the Rolls Royce of lathes.

What condition are the ways?

By the way, the picture of your shop makes me feel a lot better about mine -- I guess that's going to require me to post a picture :D

chevy3755
04-29-2010, 05:39 PM
ill trade my import for it....even up ?

oil mac
04-29-2010, 06:04 PM
You lucky lucky thing, You have a thoroughbred Enjoy

madman
04-29-2010, 06:17 PM
Time to sell that Shack and buy a small house with a 3000 square foot Shop. You can borrow my Machine Moving Equipment if you want. madman

ammcoman2
04-29-2010, 06:27 PM
How are you going to turn stuff you need, to fix the other stuff, if you sell the Std Modern? Or is the DS&G ready to run?

How's your basement looking? I am sure it must be having a serious case of tool envy with so much in the existing shop.

Geoff

wierdscience
04-29-2010, 06:34 PM
Nice haul,making room is simple,take all the crap you don't need,drag it outside,put the machine in and then haul all the crap you don't need back in the shop:D

Mcgyver
04-29-2010, 06:42 PM
Geoff the DSG is ready to go and will be working lathe...you'll have to come by and smash a champagne bottle over it or something.

thanks for all the well wishes....anyone want to help be tell the better half :eek:

Mike - what machine moving equipment....I already replicated the toe jack....you holding out on me? :)

Robert, ways are I think very good, not perfect. there is the slightest (barely felt) ridge on the V way....did the snug the carriage down and move from end to end test and it was fine

boslab
04-29-2010, 07:12 PM
Its a nice machine to be sure, the trouble with them is with a 3/8" cut the swarf is very similar to being chased by a nutter with a branding iron, you know he's going to get you and you pray its not your soft underbelly, not joking either, i now have an apron, should say the cooks always wrong on the front.
mark

beckley23
04-29-2010, 07:13 PM
I thought getting my 9200 LB 16 X 78 Monarch in was a job, but I think it was easy looking at your shop. You're going to have some fun.
BTW, that 60" straight edge will be hard to use on the narrow way faces of the 10EE. I tried my 48" on my EE and decided to make a more user friendly straight edge.
Harry

BadDog
04-29-2010, 07:32 PM
Congrats on the new machine! I am absolutely GREEN with jealousy! Makes my 4000 lb (for larger swing and length!) machine look anemic. Oh well, one day I'll find a fine machine like that, that has all the nice features and still manages to keep a nice top speed. Gotta love chips coming off like a spray of gravel, turning blue in the air, and hearing a solid clink when they land...

bob ward
04-29-2010, 07:58 PM
....they've been called the rolls royce of lathes.

I have seen in a book or magazine a photo of a Rolls Royce that was cut down and sign painted as a DSG work ute. I'll try to track it down.

Very nice lathe BTW.

MickeyD
04-29-2010, 09:08 PM
Just get rid of the bench that is on the backside of the Monarch and it should fit there. You may have to go on a diet and grease your pants (the 10EE should leak enough to help with that though), but you should be fine. The only thing else you might want to do is to remove the handle from the carriage wheel - it might catch you wrong and change your hobby to crocheting.

Your Old Dog
04-29-2010, 09:13 PM
Bummer. All the 10,000 pounders were taken? Congrats Mack, looks great :D

Fasttrack
04-29-2010, 09:48 PM
Well ... it's no Pacemaker, but I guess it'll pass. :D


You make even me jealous. Nice score! I'm sorry I haven't heard about Dean Smith and Grace. Not too many of the English made lathes in the midwest - and too bad, too! I really dig the gearbox.

That's the only real complaint I have with Pacemakers (regardless of their size) is the lack of metric threading capabilities. ATW made it super easy to change to metric/modular/diametrical pitches but it still required change gears. And despite fairly serious efforts on my part, I've never been able to find an original set. I've decided they'll just have to be added to my to-do list.

That high speed belt drive option is really neat too. I see why they call it the Rolls Royce of lathes. One of these days I'm going to have to visit your shop just so I can say I've touched one :D

Ken_Shea
04-29-2010, 09:52 PM
Whew, what a nice lathe Mcgyver,you mentioned the Hi-Speed option, what is it's upper and lower rpm limit?

As interesting as the lathe is the little problem you mentioned, where is it going to go!!!
It will have to fit somewhere, just a matter of time.

Mcgyver
04-29-2010, 09:53 PM
moving stuff all night i have an open spot cleared. it'll go. it has to go! Mickey, was able to fit the bench as well and fully intend to maintain the attachment of all body parts

Harry, mentally and physically the 10ee's on the sideline right now. I've read your account, terrific, and will be paying close attention to it. the 60" is too heavy to manipulate onto narrow ways, agreed. first plan was to rig some suspension system, with springs so that most of the weight is take up. Plan B is what you did...but at least now i've something long enough to scrape in a lighter reference. did i say i was sick of scraping? :)

Mark, good point, in everyway this is a more serious lathe than i've had....7.5 hp commands some respect, its not going to stop and the revolving parts are larger and over a bigger area in front...good safety reminder.

Tom, you're welcome anytime. before you get here I'll paint the machines in horizontal stripes so they look big

Ken, they offered a low medium or high speed headstock and each of those could be a regular headstock (high & low) or with the high speed belt option (high, low and belt). With the belt option (this is the first one i've seen with the belt option) the high speed headstock had 35 to 2500 and the low speed 17 to 1200, each with 18 forward speeds. Mine is the 17-1200. Part of me thinks the high speed would be nice, but if i ever get the monarch done i'd have more versatility over all with it and the 17-1200 DSG

Fasttrack
04-29-2010, 11:32 PM
Mark, good point, in everyway this is a more serious lathe than i've had....7.5 hp commands some respect, its not going to stop and the revolving parts are larger and over a bigger area in front...good safety reminder.

Mine is the 17-1200. Part of me thinks the high speed would be nice, but if i ever get the monarch done i'd have more versatility over all with it and the 17-1200 DSG

I assume the machine is equipped with a brake. Make sure it is in good condition and get into the pattern of quickly disengaging the drive clutch and applying the brake. ;) I use the brake on the Pacemakers quite a bit just because it takes a really long time for everything to coast to a stop, otherwise.

I think 17-1200 is a perfect range. That newest Pacemaker I bought will do 1500 but my others top out at 1000. I've never had them up that high. Frankly, I can't imagine needing anything quite that fast - especially once you get the 10EE set up. I'd like to find a combo like that; a smaller sized lathe with higher speed for small parts and a monster for big stuff. Anyhow, I'm too chickensh*t to turn a big chuck at 1000 rpm anyway.

Congrats again! That's a really cool machine. You'll have to post some pics of it in action when you get it squeezed in.

What's with that one speed range being red, btw?

wbleeker
04-30-2010, 04:27 AM
Of all the different lathes i have used, ( in excess of 20 (i think!)) the Dean Smith and Grace is the best, followed by the Cazeneuve and VDF (spelling might be wrong) and if the opportunity presented itself I would replace one of my lathes with a DSG
Will

Jim Shaper
04-30-2010, 04:34 AM
Are you sure that's only 5000lbs? :p

Beautiful machines those DSG's are.

madman
04-30-2010, 05:32 AM
Does a Hurcoe cnc mill with fried controlsd interest you at all?

Tom S
04-30-2010, 07:02 AM
Mcgyver,

Is that your Standard Model Lathe up for sale on Toronto Kijiji? If so it sounds like a nice package.

Mcgyver
04-30-2010, 08:41 AM
Tom, that's the one, I have to get my act together on pics etc and price. There's lots of Standard Moderns around in Canada but i do think its unique with no wear and a very complete group of accessories...then again everyone thinks their kids the best, right?

just heard back from DSG, 1966, sold to UofT. as they put it "This machine was extremely well specified in common with most lathes supplied to educational institutions, and was fitted with all the bells and whistles". yippy! It was shipped with the power drill attachment but i couldn't find it at the Vendors, maybe gone. It was i think a standard attachment so maybe another will turn up

other Tom, the two colours are forward speeds and reverse, for some reason different. I think you're right on the speeds, on larger diameters I'll be happy with the slow 17.5 rpm. The standard modern goes to 1500 which is nice for polishing or small dia's...but with the monarch one day running i'll have the high speed again....the solution is clearly we all need more than one lathe :D

Mike, when did you get the Hurco? I've already got a cnc with a fried controller. maybe we can get a volume discount on a retro kit

Tom S
04-30-2010, 08:55 AM
Tom, that's the one, I have to get my act together on pics etc and price. There's lots of Standard Moderns around in Canada but i do think its unique with no wear and a very complete group of accessories...then again everyone thinks their kids the best, right?

just heard back from DSG, 1966, sold to UofT. as they put it "This machine was extremely well specified in common with most lathes supplied to educational institutions, and was fitted with all the bells and whistles". yippy! It was shipped with the power drill attachment but i couldn't find it at the Vendors, maybe gone. It was i think a standard attachment so maybe another will turn up


Hmm. Wish I had the cash for it, that's the type of lathe I would eventually like to end up with.

UoT eh? Was it ever used for production work then? Or did it just get used by the occasional engineering student/teacher? It looks like it wasn't to heavily used, even the paint doesn't look bad, except for the worn-through spots on the headstock.

Mosside
04-30-2010, 09:09 AM
Mcgyver,

That is a nice one, surely worth all the time spent looking! I've been trolling for a DSG for the last couple of years myself - except I want a 1709 or 1810 or 1910 with a 80 inch bed because they have the 3 inch bore. A weanie lathe like yours wouldn't do:D :D :D.

You have surely got the lathe that will give you great satisfaction for the rest of your life, you will never wish for a better lathe again.

I will be interested in seeing the pics of how you fit that lathe in, I had the pics of your shop up on my computer screen when my wife looked over my shoulder. She blurted out "What's this, Hoarders for machinists??"

Cheers,

Doug

Mcgyver
04-30-2010, 09:18 AM
haha, dont let her talk to my wife, i've got mine convinced its almost normal. I left a couple or sq ft for you stand if you ever get down here.....? yeah been looking for awhile, I think i was chatting with you a few years ago about that 13x42 in Durham region the guy wants 6k for :eek: . There's also a nice one in London right now, asking 8k :eek: :eek: :eek: . actually, based on condition, the 8k one is more reasonable than the 6k guy but both are way off the mark imo.

Tom, I'm not completely that lucky, i bought it from a business that made custom machinery and fabrications so its not 100% the educational jewel with zero wear....has been used for production but not for its whole life.

vpt
04-30-2010, 10:26 AM
http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy132/michael01000/shop09/shopbirdseye.jpg



I have that same exact arbor press. Very nice and very handy press.

Dr Stan
04-30-2010, 10:57 AM
I showed the pic of Mcgyver's shop to my wife.

"You're all nuts!!!" was the reply :D

lazlo
04-30-2010, 11:35 AM
I showed the pic of Mcgyver's shop to my wife.

"You're all nuts!!!" was the reply :D

I showed the picture of McGyver's shop to my co-workers (engineers) and they said the same thing :)

krutch
04-30-2010, 03:01 PM
Ya going to hang it from the celing?

Krutch

John Stevenson
04-30-2010, 03:39 PM
I showed that picture to Gert, She wants to know why my shop isn't as tidy :confused:

I tried to explain that US floors are different to ours :rolleyes:

Mcgyver
04-30-2010, 04:11 PM
I tried to explain that US floors are different to ours :rolleyes:

US floors? Sir John, I'm in Toronto Canada . Our floors are quite different, I have it on good authority they're the second hardest substance known to man and can be used to sharpen carbide :)

Tom S
05-01-2010, 05:08 PM
US floors? Sir John, I'm in Toronto Canada . Our floors are quite different, I have it on good authority they're the second hardest substance known to man and can be used to sharpen carbide :)

Especially by the little-known but all-to-often process of drop-sharpening

Dan Dubeau
05-01-2010, 05:56 PM
Especially by the little-known but all-to-often process of drop-sharpening

Also known at work as a "ground finish".

Oldbrock
05-03-2010, 05:55 PM
The Standard Modern would fit in my shop nicely. How much? Congrats on a real machine, Peter