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BigBoy1
05-16-2010, 01:36 AM
My garden hose was leaking at the end which attaches to the wall water faucet. After 12 years of use, I guess it is allowed to leak. I went to local home suppy store and bought a replacement female hose fitting and clamp. (The old leaking fitting is cut off and the cut hose end is slipped onto the barbed end and clamped in place.)

Since the new fitting was in two section, I figures I'd solder them together to make one solid piece with one less joint for potential leaks. I polished up the "brass" pieces, fluxed then and heated them. The lead solder just beaded up and rolled off the fittings and would not flow into the joint I wished to mate. I check with a magnet and they were not steel. Thinking that the fitting was dirty, I polished it again with a wire brush and the "brass" begain to turn to a silver color. The more I brushed, the more silver the part became. The "brass" fitting was really made from aluminum!

I wonder how many other "brass" fitting made in China are really made from aluminum?

dp
05-16-2010, 01:44 AM
That helps them beat the magnet test.

Black_Moons
05-16-2010, 02:07 AM
You do know theres a good reason they are 2 parts?
One part is the threaded clamp part.. And the other is the hose->washer interface.
If you solder em togethor, you gotta rotate the whole hose to tighten it.. against the washer.

The threads of a garden hose thread are not designed to seal at ALL, they are just a course 'Can't screw this up!' consumer thread.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/265x/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/e/female-garden-hose-thread-with-3-8-barb.jpg
Assumeing you mean one of those.

doctor demo
05-16-2010, 04:13 AM
If you solder em togethor, you gotta rotate the whole hose to tighten it.. against the washer.


Or hold the hose still and rotate the faucet:D .

Steve

winchman
05-16-2010, 04:57 AM
The replacement ends I bought at the box store were supposed to work for 5/8" and 3/4" hose, but it wouldn't seal on the 3/4" and wouldn't fit into the 5/8".

914Wilhelm
05-16-2010, 05:11 AM
If your hell bent on soldering it now, use some of that Harbor Freight aluminum "welding" rod, really a brazing rod.

BigBoy1
05-16-2010, 04:39 PM
You do know theres a good reason they are 2 parts?
One part is the threaded clamp part.. And the other is the hose->washer interface.
If you solder em togethor, you gotta rotate the whole hose to tighten it.. against the washer.


I fully realized that was the purpose but I has no intention of removing the hose from the faucet. I leave the hose connected to the faucet all year round and don't remove it. Making the fitting solid would just eliminate another possible place for a leak to occur. I intended to screw the connector to the faucet and then install the hose and clamp on the connector. If I need to remove it, I'll loosen the clamp and remove the hose and then unscrew the connector from the faucet.

Arcane
05-16-2010, 06:46 PM
Making the fitting solid would just eliminate another possible place for a leak to occur.

No it wouldn't. You have two places where it seals. One is where the faucet contacts the hose barb (which is sealed with a flat washer) and the other is where the hose barb enters the hose, which is sealed by the interference fit between the two (usually with a little help from a ferrule or gear clamp).
The area you are soldering/brazing never sees water.

John Stevenson
05-16-2010, 07:02 PM
It's because all the brass is delegated for making brass coated steel speaker cable .


.

spope14
05-16-2010, 07:04 PM
I think the complaint is about how many of the "supplier" ChiCom products are fake, deceptive, and lower than the lowest standards. Any American or European company supplying Brass fittings found to be Aluminum would be vilified in the news, have government sanctions, have trade/Plumbing/Code organizations calling for banning the company, lawyers and insurance companies climbing all over them, and people lining up in the civil lawsuit process.

Yet there is no freaking real outcry, we buy these things, our stores from True Value to Homey Depot and Low's and even the "Mom and Pop" hardware stores (through vendors) continue to stock these parts - no lawyers, no news outcry, no lawyers, no civil suits. It is becoming scary, because so much of this crap is finding its way into critical housing and business construction, and even into HVAC - I had a piece go to hell in one month, nearly cost me a whole house of broken pipes by a new "made in China" part failing due to substandard manufacture.

Heck we hear the same thing on this board about other products, outles that are not grounded properly, lights with wires touching switches.....

My problem with Chinese/off shore brass is something a bit different though. For years I got Waterbury brass then southeast Am. Made brass, now it is from anywhere in the world, last load from China. I have made two and three piece candlesticks for years, but now the colors between the brass - even pieces "supposedly" from the same lot/cert vary so much that it is useless to hope to make a uniform looking product.

Mcostello
05-16-2010, 09:53 PM
Had an air fitting at work, would not stop leaking. Took off and it was brass plated white plastic. You must have had the deluxe, MORE expensive fittings!

CCWKen
05-17-2010, 01:15 AM
I had a Chinese air fitting come appart. Notice how thin the broken section is in the photo below.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/CCWKen/QuickCoupler-Bad-2.jpg

DR
05-17-2010, 06:25 AM
Wait until you try to get a couple pieces of Chinese galvanized iron pipe to stop leaking at the threaded joint.

Apparently, their threads are not quite the same as ours.

oldtiffie
05-17-2010, 06:33 AM
If Chinese stuff is as bad and as well-known as said why do you buy it in the first place - and why keep buying it?

Davidhcnc
05-17-2010, 06:47 AM
That is often all the vendors have!

garagemark
05-17-2010, 06:47 AM
Many times we have no choice but to buy the Chinese stuff; nothing else is available. I can go to at least four different hardware stores and three different big box stores in my area... and all have the same Chinese products. Can't get away from it.

Deja Vu
05-17-2010, 08:49 AM
Wait ....give me a while. I'll look through all my fittings to find a bad one.
Oh! there one is. I knew if I looked for a bad fitting through all my fittings I could find one bad fitting. It MUST be from China. Oh wait(again)....Its from USA. The good ones are from China. Hmmm.... I must be shopping at the wrong stores. No wait(once more)....there must be junk made EVERYWHERE that is being sold to us from our very fellow Americans.
But what the hell....lets just bash China. And let's not be specific.... just imply China is bad, no matter what part.:rolleyes:



Its Monday, you know. Gimme a break!

Deja Vu
05-17-2010, 10:33 AM
The more I brushed, the more silver the part became. The "brass" fitting was really made from aluminum!

I wonder how many other "brass" fitting made in China are really made from aluminum?

I wonder if the USA regulators responsible for allowing this are relatives of the same regulators who allowed the gulf mess to occur. I love USA, but somebody is always pocketing something to look the other way.

One simple word added to the description...."plated"

lazlo
05-17-2010, 10:42 AM
I knew if I looked for a bad fitting through all my fittings I could find one bad fitting. It MUST be from China. Oh wait(again)....Its from USA. The good ones are from China. Hmmm.... I must be shopping at the wrong stores. No wait(once more)....there must be junk made EVERYWHERE that is being sold to us from our very fellow Americans.

The Chinese aren't making that crap exclusively for the Americans -- it's shipped all over the world. It's just that we have a preponderance of Americans on this forum. I bet the same discussion is going on in European and Australian fora.

In answer to your first statement, there's a huge difference between finding a defective American/Canadian/British/German... (have the Germans or Swiss ever made anything defective? :)) fitting, and making a counterfeit out of plastic or aluminum, and plating it to camouflage it.

I posted an article in the Wall Street Journal about Mattel's operations in China, before the lead debacle. They explained that they had to build extensive testing labs, because the Chinese factories would supply good quality prototypes to win the contract, and then slowly, but surely cost-engineer the manufacturing to maximize profits.

Deja Vu
05-17-2010, 10:53 AM
The Chinese aren't making that crap exclusively for the Americans -- it's shipped all over the world.
Right. But this is my point. Every country that accepts these mis-represented products has American politians working for them that simply aren't doing their jobs in looking out for their constituants....simply being dishonest.


I posted an article in the Wall Street Journal about Mattel's operations in China, before the lead debacle. They explained that they had to build extensive testing labs, because the Chinese factories would supply good quality prototypes to win the contract, and then slowly, but surely cost-engineer the manufacturing to maximize profits.
And then, Mattel fell down....They tried to save money by eliminating their quality control personel...or at worst, having them look the other way, or get let go to be replaced by another who would be less honest.

Greed Greed Greed.....only the bottom line counts. And this is for BOTH China and USA.

Willy
05-17-2010, 11:01 AM
Greed Greed Greed.....only the bottom line counts.

Very true, and that greed follows everyone home as well.
Don't blame the corporations...they are only fulfilling the the consumers buying trends. This is why places like Wallyworld thrive, and quality product resellers only serve a niche market.

Deja Vu
05-17-2010, 11:07 AM
Very true, and that greed follows everyone home as well.
Don't blame the corporations...they are only fulfilling the the consumers buying trends. This is why places like Wallyworld thrive, and quality product resellers only serve a niche market.

But if everyone was doing their jobs(honestly) then we could shop at Wallyworld without standing there examining the product wondering if what is written on the package is what's inside. I usually don't hesitate to "open" a package when serious about buying...even if it is bubble sealed. This is what's nice about Wallyworld. Should I get the package home first before opening and deal with the inconvenience, I can return it ..no questions asked really.

Somebody in this forum uses the word "sheeples" to refer to consumers. How true. Corporations rely on this term while doing their amoral business.

lazlo
05-17-2010, 11:09 AM
This is why places like Wallyworld thrive, and quality product resellers only serve a niche market.

I disagree -- Walmart single-handedly created the Chinese economy. In the 90's, when everyone else (Target, Sears, Home Depot, Lowes,...) was selling Made in USA merchantile, some bean counter in Walmart decided they could undercut everyone's prices by contracting crappy counterfeits made in China.

The rest was a downward spiral.

Like many have posted, you have no choice now -- if you go out looking for a brass fitting, you won't find one that's not Made in China. Same for nuts and bolts.

Deja Vu
05-17-2010, 11:23 AM
Like many have posted, you have no choice now -- if you go out looking for a brass fitting, you won't find one that's not Made in China. Same for nuts and bolts.
But this doesn't matter! What matters is the quality control. The very American buyers(companies) that flood the USA with junk are the ones responsible for us sitting here complaining about China. It matters not what china exports. It matters what we import. OUR inspectors(quality control) are not doing their jobs. Its as simple as that. Sure, quality products will cost more, regardless from where they come, but accurate descriptions on products allows us to decide.... Do we want the plated aluminum fitting? at a reduced cost? Or do we require the solid brass item. I've bought lots of stuff from China nd it is just fine. Sometimes I get something from China that is defective. It happens anywhere. Probably moreso from China. But this is because the Quality control guys representing USA are looking the other way while they build their several homes from the payola for looking the other way.

Willy
05-17-2010, 11:30 AM
I disagree -- Walmart single-handedly created the Chinese economy.

They aren't responsible for the increase in the Chinese economy. The consumer that walks in the door not willing to pay one cent more than he absolutely has to is ultimately responsible.
Walmart didn't create lower consumer expectations...they capitalized on the concept.

lazlo
05-17-2010, 11:39 AM
Walmart didn't create lower consumer expectations...they capitalized on the concept.

But they did! Over the course of 10 years, they conditioned the consumer to tolerate lower and lower quality of goods.

There's a famous Frontline documentary describing Walmart and the downward spiral. Walmart was the first Western company to out-source to China. The Chinese didn't know how to build or run a factory, and they were shocked that the world's largest corporation would want to build a factory there. So Walmart sent a army of consultants over to bootstrap their "Work Zones."

When the commerce started selling in the West, the other major retailers were shocked. A Target executive was interviewed in the documentary, and he was amazed that Walmart could sell socks (for example) for half the price they were. So to stay alive, Target (which was the second big Western company to outsource to China) sent corporate spies to China to figure out how Walmart was doing it.

The rest was a row of dominoes...

garagemark
05-17-2010, 11:47 AM
Put ANY (OK, almost any) two products side by side... one of great quality and one of OK quality. Price the great quality unit a fair market price. Now post the other unit at a lower price... even if only pennies different. Want me to write down the outcome? Don't need to. This experiment was done years ago, and now you know why the great quality unit is no longer available.

We are cheap assses.

Willy
05-17-2010, 11:55 AM
But they did! Over the course of 10 years, they conditioned the consumer to tolerate lower and lower quality of goods.


No the concept of lower quality goods that barely meet consumer expectations was very much alive well before Walmart. As I said they capitalized on the concept and did so to a degree unheard of before.

I remember living in the US during the fifties and sixties and the Japanese junk that proliferated the market at that time. Much has changed since then, but the insatiable appetite for the consumer to buy substandard products still remains. It's as intrinsic as human nature itself.

'

Deja Vu
05-17-2010, 11:58 AM
They aren't responsible for the increase in the Chinese economy. The consumer that walks in the door not willing to pay one cent more than he absolutely has to is ultimately responsible.

I'm going to proclaim BS!!!!
Responsible for what? for buying a "brass" water hose fitting that turns out to be plated aluminium? I don't think so. If it is advertised as brass, then I take no blame.....IF I didn't return it. Even if I kept it and used it, I would only be giving those ultimately responsible for the mis-labeled product to continue their dishonest ways. Their American dishonest ways.
We blame Wallmart? Yes, but only because we can't put our finger on the real culprit. Our dishonest system. Greed Greed Greed....by those we entrust(and pay royally) to protect us.

Hmmm. maybe we ARE to blame... hell lets boycot water hose fittings!:rolleyes: that will get us some satisfaction.
Better yet, let's stop consuming.

lazlo
05-17-2010, 12:26 PM
No the concept of lower quality goods that barely meet consumer expectations was very much alive well before Walmart. As I said they capitalized on the concept and did so to a degree unheard of before.

I remember living in the US during the fifties and sixties and the Japanese junk that proliferated the market at that time. Much has changed since then, but the insatiable appetite for the consumer to buy substandard products still remains. It's as intrinsic as human nature itself.

Good point. There was an amusing thread on PM about a year ago, where a guy bought a Gerstner tool chest from Penn Tool, and was infuriated that it was made in China.
The denizens of PM pointed out that Gerstner still has a Made in USA line, that's twice the price. The OP stated bluntly there was no way he was going to pay the additional cost.

So the remaining Western holdouts: Pratt-Burnerd, Standard Modern, Starrett, Gerstner, Kurt... are forced to either outsource to China, or die.

Deja Vu
05-17-2010, 05:24 PM
Speaking of wood products....
I built decks. I'd order a full bundle of deck boards strapped with metal and dumped at the site. It looked beautiful as I began cutting the straps.
As the bundle fell open, inside every board had bark edges. they prepared the bundle with only the finest boards showing. Now, I know that a percentage is allowed for "bad" wood, but this was downright deceptive. And it is all american. It happens all too often, relying on the installer to accept and make do. And too, the wood was often "mixed" so when the wood dries in place, half the boards begin raising their grain so that a complete resurfacing of the now installed decking is required...i.e. I return to the long ago installed dried deck and get out my sander and take off all the toe-catching slivers. Lack of quality is not restricted to just China.

I've opened bundles and immediately called the yard to "come and get your wood"...and end up helping the poor delivery guys to reload. Someone higher up at the american process plant is shoveling out the door crap to the consumer just for that extra little bit of profit.
The local lumber yard's explaination is always.."that's how it came from the plant." ...which is usually the truth.

Farbmeister
05-17-2010, 05:51 PM
I would buy US made stuff if it was worth it. I don't see the VALUE of 2x-5x the price then I can buy another when the Chinese one breaks. Simple economics.

As soon as China figures out QC, and accepts a larger % of rejects then the USA is doomed. That's the only piece of the puzzle they have yet to figure out.

Japan did. Remember when Japanese stuff was crap? Now they are first world manufacturers.

oldtiffie
05-17-2010, 07:02 PM
I am pretty well with Deja Vu here.

Too many people are too concerned with the "must have" and the "glitz" and "bling" at and for the lowest cost.

Despite the lower cost of Chinese items there is quite a good margin on them for the dealers/sellers and they have a high turn-over. That means less time on the shelf or in the warehouse and its very good business.

I see people here complaining about Chinese "junk" - and a lot of it, but by no means all of it - is junk.

But I see some of the same people quite happily buying stuff "as said/advertised" ands sight-unseen and untested from e-Bay and Craig's List and auctions etc. - especially for "name" tools and machines etc. - and they brag ("gloat") about how they got it for pea-nuts and then complain and reckon they "wuz robbed" when they get, open or see or try what they bought. Just about all those "robbers" are from your own country.

With regard to tools and machines etc. I buy for what I perceive to be "quality" and if it costs more I pay it - up to a limit that I have set for the item. If I have to lift my limit - so be it. So long as the item meets my requirement in terms or performance and cost it is OK.

Most times I don't worry at all about cost - its either a good investment or its not. If a $2 spanner does the single job I want it for and then I junk it, it had done its job and had been a good buy. If I buy a $2,000 machine and it only gets used once a year but is there ready to run when needed and I have assessed it as a good investment I both buy it and am satisfied - even if I junk it for something else or better.

I buy a lot of Chinese tools and machines as well as from Europe and the UK. All do the job I require of them and I have good warranty and support.

If I make a bad choice I can hardly reasonably blame anyone but myself - and I don't. I just put it down to experience, shrug my shoulders and move on.

As regards the OP's hose fitting, I have bought lots of hose/water adaptors/connections and most are plastic. I buy the hoses with brass fittings already installed and warranted. All spend their lives out in the weather. I rarely have a failure - mostly its seals/washers and "O"-rings etc. Most are made in China. But we don't go for the "bargain bin" or rejects either. So at the end of the day over time we are quite well in front by being a bit more careful and paying a bit more for a better product - most of which just happens to come from China.

I would not be the least bit surprised if the Chinese did not finance the purchase of their product at much better terms and conditions than the banks in the USA will.

Selling Chinese stuff is very attractive to most sellers as the margins are high and the terms of trade are very good.

Like it or not, we are in a "throw-away" world and all the howling, crying, bitching and hand-wringing about it and China is not going to change anything.

The old idiom of being "penny-wise and pound-foolish" still applies and is very evident.

gzig5
05-17-2010, 08:31 PM
In answer to your first statement, there's a huge difference between finding a defective American/Canadian/British/German... (have the Germans or Swiss ever made anything defective? :))

Yes they have, but they blame it on the Italalians working the shop floor. I worked for a Swiss company for years and they screw up, just like everybody else. But it's the Italians.....:)

lazlo
05-17-2010, 08:55 PM
Yes they have, but they blame it on the Italalians working the shop floor.

But they're probably right (and I'm Italian ;) ).


"In heaven the police are English, the cooks are French, the mechanics are German, the lovers are Italian and it’s all organized by the Swiss.

In hell the police are German, the cooks are English, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it’s all organized by the Italians."

Deja Vu
05-17-2010, 09:08 PM
But they're probably right (and I'm Italian ;) ).


"In heaven the police are English, the cooks are French, the mechanics are German, the lovers are Italian and itís all organized by the Swiss.

In hell the police are German, the cooks are English, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss, and itís all organized by the Italians."
:D amusing!

krutch
05-18-2010, 02:10 PM
It's because all the brass is delegated for making brass coated steel speaker cable .


.


And munitions!