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gzig5
05-20-2010, 11:31 PM
I need to ship a heavy part to Canada and my initial investigation of the rate is disappointing. The part will weigh about 45 pounds boxed up and is going to the Toronto area from Milwaukee. The cheapest rate I could find on the post office website is $97 for Priority. UPS standard gave me a quote of $57. Is there a cheaper method via the Post Office that I missed?

Any suggestions on customs declarations?
Greg

DFMiller
05-21-2010, 01:22 AM
USPS is a deal. Go for it. I just got a small parcel today that went by mistake UPS instead of USPS. The brokerage fee on the items less then $200.00 in value was $39.10. Plus both taxes.
If you live close to board go UPS ground to other side of border and pick it up. Most US towns close to Canadian border has places that are for drop shipping like this. Other option might be the flat rate boxes I don't know how large your $45 lbs is.

Don't use UPS. I am sure Buffalo will have a drop ship place.

Good luck
Dave

EddyCurr
05-21-2010, 01:29 AM
I need to ship a heavy part to Canada ...
The part will weigh about 45 pounds ...
The cheapest rate I could find on the post office website is $97 for Priority.
UPS standard gave me a quote of $57.

Is there a cheaper method via the Post Office that I missed?Hmmm. Let's see.

USPS & CanPost is $97. Add the fixed $5 brokerage fee (if they decide
to charge it) and you are at $102, plus whatever the duty and taxes
work out to be (if they charge them.) The parcel will arrive in a prompt
fashion and will look in the same condition as it left the shipper's care.

UPS Ground is $57. Now add their outrageous brokerage fee (at least
$30 is my guess, more depending on the value of the item.) Next add
the duty and taxes which WILL be charged unfailingly. Then take into
consideration that the parcel may well be both shaken and stirred,
possibly even drenched in some fluids that have leaked out from other
abused mechandise, such that the shipper wouldn't be able to recognize
it as the same goods he turned over at the UPS Store.

Is a (very) few dollars saved really worth the heartache, frustration
and outright anger experienced when you do business with UPS into
Canada?




Any suggestions on customs declarations?Yes, don't ask a US citizen to perjure himself in preparing federal
document in your favour.

.

dharnell
05-21-2010, 08:58 AM
As far as the USPS, was there a ground rate instead of priority? Would it fit in an international flat rate box?

I've had a few parcels shipped to Canada via DHL lately and the shipping costs were comparable to UPS. An added plus is that their brokerage fee was only $7.00.

Dave

gzig5
05-21-2010, 01:41 PM
The part won't fit and is too heavy for any of the flat rate boxes. I could not find a plain ground rate online (although the time for Priority was 6-10 days), so I thought I would ask here. I'll look some more and try to stop by the PO on the way home.

MaxHeadRoom
05-21-2010, 03:16 PM
Yes, don't ask a US citizen to perjure himself in preparing federal
document in your favour.

.

Besides, when going USPS/CanPost there is a percentage that gets set aside for checking, so its automatic GST/PST and $5.00 fee.
The word GIFT usually sets up a red flag for checking.
I make a point of telling US shippers not to use the word.
Max.

jack3140
05-21-2010, 06:23 PM
put it on a greyhound bus

quasi
05-21-2010, 11:19 PM
it used to be that under a $20.00 value got no Brokerage fee's to Canada by UPS. I had my 4" Kurt vise with swivel base shipped this way, as well as a Hollywood turret press.

I do not know if this loophole still exists.

madman
05-22-2010, 08:13 AM
MY tube bender a van sant cost me 400 dollars brokerage fees for a 300 dollar bender? Figure that one out. UPS sucks Period.

Evan
05-22-2010, 09:29 AM
Besides, when going USPS/CanPost there is a percentage that gets set aside for checking, so its automatic GST/PST and $5.00 fee.
The word GIFT usually sets up a red flag for checking.
I make a point of telling US shippers not to use the word.


Funny thing about that. I buy items from time to time from Deal Extreme in Hong Kong. They always send the order marked gift and they never make reference to lasers in the contents. I have never paid duty or taxes or a customs fee on any of the orders regardless of the value.

lazlo
05-22-2010, 10:33 AM
Hmmm. Let's see.

USPS & CanPost is $97. Add the fixed $5 brokerage fee (if they decide
to charge it) and you are at $102

I'm pretty the US and Canada have reciprocal customs agreements, so you don't pay brokerage fees. I've sent and received several items with Canadian (and British, and German, and Australian) forum members, and have never paid brokerage fees in either direction.

MaxHeadRoom
05-22-2010, 11:04 AM
Brokerage fees are nothing to do with Customs on either side, this is the fee charged by an independent broker, whether it be the freight company or a independant brokerage firm.
The customs requirement is that a B3 form be filled out by someone, with the applicable commodity code, either by the broker or you yourself.
They can allow it through without clearing at their discretion.
I am fortunate enough to be able to clear my own as the freight companies bring in the items in bond to their respective wharehouses, so it does not have to clear before crossing the border.
max.

Evan
05-22-2010, 11:17 AM
I'm pretty the US and Canada have reciprocal customs agreements, so you don't pay brokerage fees.

If Canada customs inspects a parcel and charges the applicable taxes then they also charge a $5 clearing (brokerage) fee on top of that. At their discretion they may simply pass it through without inspection, taxes or fees. It has nothing to do with any agreements, but much to do with how busy they are.

lazlo
05-22-2010, 12:52 PM
Brokerage fees are nothing to do with Customs on either side, this is the fee charged by an independent broker, whether it be the freight company or a independant brokerage firm.

It's a Custom's Brokerage Fee. The truck has to stop at the Custom's office on the other side of the border, and fill out paperwork declaring the contents of the container. UPS, FedEx, DHL et al all charge a considerable Customs Brokerage Fee to amortize the cost per package in the trailer.


If Canada customs inspects a parcel and charges the applicable taxes then they also charge a $5 clearing (brokerage) fee on top of that.

Huh, didn't know that. I've shipped dozens of packages to Canada, accurately describing the contents, and never heard from the recipient that it was charged Customs Brokerage. Even so, $5 is a bargain compared to the ~ $50 that UPS, FedEx and DHL charge.

Black_Moons
05-22-2010, 01:16 PM
Nobody mentions USPS brokerage fees because $5+tax is TOTALY REALISTIC AND SANE.

Breakdown of UPS fees:
http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html
Say, $200.01 package:
$42.95 Entry Preparation Charges.
a fee of 2.7 percent (minimum $5.85) of the amount advanced by UPS will be charged (bond feee)
$4.25 Collect On Delivery (C.O.D.) Fee for collecting import charges on delivery.
So now we are past $50 in just fees. Oh and:
Note: Rates do not include applicable duties or taxes.
So add another 7 or 14% tax of $200 ontop of that.
So likey up to over $70 in fees + $70 s/h, for a $200 item.

Do the math on a $21 item, and it still comes out $7+4.25+5.85 or about $17 in FEES.. before tax and before shiping.
For a $41 item, its $19.45+4.25+5.85 or about $30 in fees.. Before tax and before shiping.

And if that was not enough rape, they can throw in other charges:
Duty and Tax Amendment $50.00
Import Permits (each) $23.00 each
Other Government Departments (O.G.D.) Processing Fee** $16.00 each
Outport Entry Fee (for non-UPS carried shipments only) $10.00 each
Low-Value Shipment Amendment $15.00
Each additional classification line after first 5 lines* $4.50/line
Invoice Integrity Fee*** $4.00

I don't even know when any of those charges apply, but I bet they can and basicly do just toss them on randomly.
Yea, another $100's in fees to tack on if they feel like it.. and thats before you even consider what '$10.00 each' really means...

Id never EVER ship UPS ground from the USA to canada again. What a waste of money paying all those bureaucrats.

MaxHeadRoom
05-22-2010, 02:00 PM
It's a Custom's Brokerage Fee. The truck has to stop at the Custom's office on the other side of the border, and fill out paperwork declaring the contents of the container. UPS, FedEx, DHL et al all charge a considerable Customs Brokerage Fee to amortize the cost per package in the trailer.



I have been importing and exporting for over 20 yrs, including clearing customs myself, I have never yet seen a Customs fee apart from the $5.00 when Can Customs use what is known as a CBSA Postal Import Form via CanPost.
If I truck some machines in, I have to either get a broker to issue the B3 at the border before the truck arrives at the border, OR use a bonded carrier which brings it in to the city and I have to clear it before it is released from the bonded wharehouse, same with UPS, Fedex etc which use bonded vehicles.
Practically all freight carriers here bring the goods in and they are cleared after arrival.
Canada Customs reserve the right to inspect any shipment before being dispatched to the customer.
Clearing ones own can save a lot in duties, as freight company brokers often get the commodity code wrong.

loose nut
05-22-2010, 02:36 PM
I'm pretty the US and Canada have reciprocal customs agreements, so you don't pay brokerage fees. I've sent and received several items with Canadian (and British, and German, and Australian) forum members, and have never paid brokerage fees in either direction.

How would we know for sure, you might just have an over inflated opion of yourself.

lazlo
05-22-2010, 05:56 PM
LOL, I'm pretty sure, not pretty :) I'm saying that I've never paid custom's brokerage to Canada, in over a dozen packages I've sent by USPS.

lazlo
05-22-2010, 06:01 PM
If I truck some machines in, I have to either get a broker to issue the B3 at the border before the truck arrives at the border

Exactly. So the Customs Brokerage Fee that UPS, FedEx and DHL charge is ostensibly the cost for the broker to get the B3 customs form for them. The reality is that they ship millions of dollars of foods both directions across the border each day, so there's no way they're paying that much to broker Customs' forms -- it's just a poorly-hidden profit for them.

Evan
05-22-2010, 07:17 PM
I'm saying that I've never paid custom's brokerage to Canada, in over a dozen packages I've sent by USPS

It is charged to the recipient, not the sender.

quasi
05-22-2010, 09:02 PM
Canada post generally does not charge G.S.T. or a Brokerage fee on items under a $60.00 value.

lazlo
05-22-2010, 10:57 PM
It is charged to the recipient, not the sender.

Right, but like I said -- it was stuff I was sending to forum members. They would have mentioned if there was a COD on the package...

MaxHeadRoom
05-22-2010, 11:28 PM
Exactly. So the Customs Brokerage Fee that UPS, FedEx and DHL charge is ostensibly the cost for the broker to get the B3 customs form for them.

UPS, FedEx, DHL, do not pay any brokerage fee, it is up to you to get it brokered, or they will do it for you with their own in-house brokerage dept, they just recover the cost from you when they do.

lazlo
05-22-2010, 11:54 PM
UPS, FedEx, DHL, do not pay any brokerage fee, it is up to you to get it brokered, or they will do it for you with their own in-house brokerage dept, they just recover the cost from you when they do.

Don't UPS, FedEx, and DHL have to file customs paperwork at the border, just like any other truck that crosses the border?

They have whole divisions that handle customs brokerage. They even offer it as a separate service:

UPS Customs Brokerage Services (http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/resources/ship/customs/index.html)

What they're doing is charging you for the salaries and operating expenses of the offices and personnel they have at the border to handle the customs paperwork. But that's amortized across millions of packages each day, so their fees are outrageous, and a huge profit center. UPS gets singled-out for that, but all the major commercial shipping companies charge customs brokerage fees that are within a couple of dollars of each other.

DFMiller
05-23-2010, 12:39 AM
And the latest screw by the Canadian Government.
The CBSA Inspection fee. I just got the bill from my broker for my small horizontal mill I picked up. $39.10 plus GST for an inspection fee on all USED equipment to ensure that no contaminates are present on used equipment. I told the broker I was going to send a strongly worded letter to the CBSA that they did a crappy job cleaning the machine as it has got rust on. I got a laugh from the broker.

Unit was $180.00 USD
Shipping was $259 CDN
$128 for Taxes, Brokerage Fee and Rip off inspection fee.
$567.00 and I have a old Barker PM sitting in the shop waiting some TLC.
People like Ken S would have only spent $180.00
But living in west coast of Canada is worth it. :-)

Evan
05-23-2010, 12:45 AM
but all the major commercial shipping companies charge customs brokerage fees that are within a couple of dollars of each other.


How do you know that?

lazlo
05-23-2010, 10:08 AM
How do you know that?

Because they all post their rates :)

http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html

MaxHeadRoom
05-23-2010, 10:46 AM
Don't UPS, FedEx, and DHL have to file customs paperwork at the border, just like any other truck that crosses the border?

.

No, If they had to clear every truck and their fleet of planes at every point that it crosses the border it would be a monumental hang up.
They bring them direct into various provincial warehouses where they are held in bond, either for someones broker to clear it or by themselves for you.
I have had a couple of instances where Can customs spot check a couple of items on submitting the B3, before I can pick it up from the local wharehouse.

Evan
05-23-2010, 12:04 PM
Because they all post their rates

No they don't. Try finding a rate for DHL.

lazlo
05-23-2010, 12:23 PM
No they don't. Try finding a rate for DHL.

Wow, the Google Child couldn't find it? :p Took about 30 seconds:

http://www.dhl.ca/ca/Documents/CBG%20Service%20Option%20Schedule%20-%20english.pdf

By the way, I've shipped to Canada with all three services. DHL has slightly lower Customs Brokerage Fees, but their tracking numbers don't show anything other than pickup and delivery, and for some reason, DHL's packages often go missing for long periods of time.

Evan
05-23-2010, 12:28 PM
That is a nice table but it is useless for figuring out how much you will actually pay.

lazlo
05-23-2010, 12:32 PM
That is a nice table but it is useless for figuring out how much you will actually pay.

It's a $25 flat-rate plus 15% of the declared value. Not surprisingly, the same fee schedule as UPS and Fedex, although FedEx recently increased their base amount to $30, which means UPS and DHL will soon follow.

Evan
05-23-2010, 03:21 PM
Wow, the Google Child couldn't find it?

You are giving yourself away. I didn't use Google, I went to the DHL site. According to their search function that table doesn't exist.


It's a $25 flat-rate plus 15% of the declared value.
Exactly where did you get the idea that it is a $25 flat rate? That table gives no such information.

RussZHC
05-23-2010, 06:45 PM
lazlo:


for some reason, DHL's packages often go missing for long periods of time.

Precisely the reason I will no longer use DHL...at some past date I was to send a package "air" but apparently, according to the local DHL office, that does not mean it actually leaves or arrives by "air" and certainly not with any immediacy ( as in out by plane that day/evening)...I found out my parcel sat in the local warehouse for 3 days until a plane eventually destined for the city where the recipient lived was in fact at our local airport...and in the meantime at least 2 trucks per day had left...I guess it does not go through their central processing "plant" until it actually leaves the local warehouse, eh?
Air freight fees to sit until a plane shows up...:mad: