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John Stevenson
06-02-2010, 07:48 PM
I work mainly in metric and like a rule that has imperial on one side and metric on the other.

The imperial side tends to have fractions on the top 64's. 32's, 16's and 1/8's with decimal on the bottom 50's, 20's and 10's

The metric side is usually the same top and bottom 1/2 mills to 50mm then 1mm to the end.

Occasionally you might get one that has 1/2mills at the top and full mills at the bottom but it all depends on the lay of the work which scale you use.

Now the gripe, why do they insist on marking in 1/2mills ? it just clutters the rule up and you are more liable to make a mistake on the wrong division that guessing the halfway point. 1/2 a mill is only 20 thou and cramming these in causes a lot of confusion.

When you are on the full mill divisions you can even guess off to a 1/4 of a mill or 10 thou but it next to impossible to split the 1/2 mills without going bozeyed.

Incidentally I must have about 10 rules that are all different in their layout of what goes where but I have never seen ones that has full mills top and bottom.

oldtiffie
06-02-2010, 08:46 PM
John.

Try using a carpenter/builders 1 metre 4 x (250mm) white folding rule.

They are calibrated in single mm on one side and to 1", 1/8" and 1/16" etc. on the reverse. They are a pretty good quick mm>" conversion aid as well.

Being heavy black marks, figures etc. on a white back-ground it is about as good a contrast as visibility factor as you will get. I've snapped a couple of mine at fold/hinge but the short 250mm/10" end sections come in pretty handy. I've cut up small sections - say 2", 3", 4" etc. to get into those bloody awkward hard to access dark spots etc. They work well on the welding as well.

I use than as my default ruler now as I can easily halve and quarter a mm (40 thou) - and better. I only use a standard machinist's steel rule when needed - ie rarely - as my old plastic dial indicating (non-digital) mm 150mm long (yellow) does most other stuff unless the "better" stuff is needed.

I can see that white rule quite clearly in some quite dark spots that would require a light etc.

Give it a try - you might be surprised.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/HF-45%20Mill%20misc/HF45-3.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/measuring/Co-axialindicator7.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Calipers/Dig_caliper4.jpg

ckelloug
06-02-2010, 08:54 PM
So what you're saying is that you've had your fill of despotic rulers :D

mochinist
06-02-2010, 08:56 PM
I carry a 6" rule in my shirt pocket, it has mm's on one side and end english on the other side, in decimals, the main marks are spaced .100" and I think it has smaller marks every .025". Mitutoyu if I remember right.


This really adds nothing, I just felt like typing. :)

becksmachine
06-02-2010, 09:15 PM
So, I am not the only one to wish for one more combination of rule graduations. ;)

Hi John, my thoughts exactly on the .010 graduations, .050 is much more useful. I even went so far as to get a quote from Starrett to make a rule with custom graduations, as you might expect it was astronomical for one rule, about $300 for a 6" rule. If there was any agreement on what graduations would be useful we could probably do it for considerably less??

Dave

darryl
06-02-2010, 09:48 PM
I like the white rules with black markings. What I'd really like is one with the same markings on both edges, lining up as well. The full division marks can go right across from one edge to the other, like every inch or every 5 cm or so. Grab the imperial one, or grab the metric one. Screw off with the 'across the ruler' interpretations.

Make the metric ones more expensive, so we can save the tried and true imperial system. :)

Your Old Dog
06-02-2010, 09:57 PM
Don't get me started. I've got a gripe of my own where tape measurers are concerned. Is there some freaking reason they all have to read from left to right when most people are right handed and would like to mark with their right hand? There was a very brief time when someone came out with a right to left reading tape but not any more. Now you have to fumble with the bulk of the tape in your right hand and then switch grips to hold the pencil in your right hand to make an accurate mark. Just smokes my arse, absurd, can't get it out of my head. I was okay until you brought this crap up Stevenson :D

Dan Dubeau
06-02-2010, 10:06 PM
Don't get me started. I've got a gripe of my own where tape measurers are concerned. Is there some freaking reason they all have to read from left to right when most people are right handed and would like to mark with their right hand? There was a very brief time when someone came out with a right to left reading tape but not any more. Now you have to fumble with the bulk of the tape in your right hand and then switch grips to hold the pencil in your right hand to make an accurate mark. Just smokes my arse, absurd, can't get it out of my head. I was okay until you brought this crap up Stevenson :D


http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32563&cat=1,43513

:D

Lew Hartswick
06-02-2010, 10:26 PM
I guess that saying about teaching an "Old Dog" new tricks is true. :-)
Can't you read the numbers up side down? :-)
...lew...

uncle pete
06-02-2010, 11:25 PM
Y.O.D.
LOL, I can relate to that, Give me a tape measure with the same markings for each side of the tape, I don't want to try and read the dammed things upside down. I also have the R-L and L-R reading tape measures from Lee valley but I see no reason why some tape measure manufacturer hasn't at least tried to use the product they make and put the markings so that a tape can be easily read when measuring in either direction. Just one more PITA in the world that no one wants to actuly fix.

Pete

The Artful Bodger
06-02-2010, 11:39 PM
It would be nice too if rules were marked L-R one side and R-L the other.

oldtiffie
06-02-2010, 11:51 PM
I like the white rules with black markings. What I'd really like is one with the same markings on both edges, lining up as well. The full division marks can go right across from one edge to the other, like every inch or every 5 cm or so. Grab the imperial one, or grab the metric one. Screw off with the 'across the ruler' interpretations.

Make the metric ones more expensive, so we can save the tried and true imperial system. :)

Darryl.

My rules have the metric on one side and inch on the other both having the same reference/zero on the same and of the rule. If I want to do a conversion I just dig my thumb nail in on the edge of the rule at the point I want to convert from and roll the rule over to the system I want to convert to and there it is right under my thumb nail - dead easy, quick and accurate.

1mm ~ 0.040" so halving and quartering to 0.010" is pretty easy.

1/16" = 0.0625" ~ 0.060" which is easily halved to 0.030" or quartered to 0.015" and a "bit under" is near enough to 0.010" and a "bit over" is near enough to 0.020". Measuring/setting to "thirds" (0.020") is easy with practice as well.

Splitting an etched/impressed black line on a white background is easy as well - and that is getting into "a thou or so" territory.

It never ceases to amaze me just how actuate and versatile the Mark 1 eye-ball (as supplied) is. I make sure I use it.

oldtiffie
06-03-2010, 12:54 AM
So what you're saying is that you've had your fill of despotic rulers :D

Very droll Cameron - I liked it.

If despot = stand-over man and if or as HSM-ers stand over their machines (and each other on occasion) then it seems that:

HSM-er = stand-over man = despot if, and only if, they make it a rule to measure up.

Further, if having your fill (or getting filled up) with or by said despot are you not getting 6" (minima) or 12" (maxima) inserted by said despot as he stands over you - as a rule? which meets your criteria:

So what you're saying is that you've had your fill of despotic rulers

But if said despot/ruler tosses you aside is he not a "tosser"? which according to Wikipedia here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tosser

says that said ruler which = ruler + tosser = wanker:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanker

There's lots of real or potential rulers here.

Black Forest
06-03-2010, 02:45 AM
I was born left handed. My Grandfather lived with us when I was very young. He thought being left handed was a sign of retardation. He made me use my right hand for everything. When I was around him I had to put my left hand in my pocket. If I used my left hand to do something that I could have done with my right hand I got a whipping. He was a real prick. BUT now I am ambidextrous. He made me write right handed so I use what ever hand is the most practical to write with!!!

Paul Alciatore
06-03-2010, 03:10 AM
Don't get me started. I've got a gripe of my own where tape measurers are concerned. Is there some freaking reason they all have to read from left to right when most people are right handed and would like to mark with their right hand? There was a very brief time when someone came out with a right to left reading tape but not any more. Now you have to fumble with the bulk of the tape in your right hand and then switch grips to hold the pencil in your right hand to make an accurate mark. Just smokes my arse, absurd, can't get it out of my head. I was okay until you brought this crap up Stevenson :D

Well, left to right is OK if you are measuring as opposed to marking. They do call them "measuring" tapes. Perhaps you should buy a "marking" tape.

Or stand on the other side.

The Artful Bodger
06-03-2010, 03:48 AM
Or stand on the other side.

Maybe Tiffie can send you some down under measuring tapes and rules!;)

dvbydt
06-03-2010, 06:14 AM
It would be nice too if rules were marked L-R one side and R-L the other.

Here you go - Mitutoyo 182-211.

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx213/dvbydt/Engineering/Mitutoyo.jpg

IanR

Evan
06-03-2010, 06:40 AM
Lazy Bastard. Make your own.

oldtiffie
06-03-2010, 07:44 AM
I was born left handed. My Grandfather lived with us when I was very young. He thought being left handed was a sign of retardation. He made me use my right hand for everything. When I was around him I had to put my left hand in my pocket. If I used my left hand to do something that I could have done with my right hand I got a whipping. He was a real prick. BUT now I am ambidextrous. He made me write right handed so I use what ever hand is the most practical to write with!!!

Same here BF - except that I had the great misfortune to go to an Irish Catholic - Jesuit - school where I had to sit on my left hand or had it tied to me or the desk. If I was caught I got a whack in the gear that nearly knocked me out of my desk - and on a couple of occasions actually did!

But as it the case in many things, I became ambidextrous. I can write both hands but prefer right, hack-saw or wood saw - both hands even, hammer - both but prefer left, axe - right mostly, spanners and most tools - either hand - prefer right, wood chisels - left hand etc. etc. It can be very handy.

I've never thought about tapes and rules set left and measured to the right etc. as I just use whatever suits.

I am not sure that all drawings should be or need to be dimensioned from the lower left corner - ie dimension progressively to the right and up.

The "need" seems to be more traditional then needed or required.

Marking out follows the precedent implied and imposed in the drawing and it becomes a habit even when drawings are not used.

A drawing should be created to suit the reader and the end-user or processes and not necessarily to suit a drafter, designer or engineer etc.

I have no problem dimensioning or marking out from any reference point or points or in any direction or directions. I can read and use and measure and mark out with a rule that is inverted or reversed - its just a matter of developing and retaining the necessary skill-sets.

There is no reason why a standard "right and up" drawing and marking out process should not be converted otherwise provided the integrity of the design, marking-out and performance of the end-product are not unduly effected or compromised.

It is not always required or best to extend thinking to being "outside the box" as quite often it is more productive to re-think what it is side the box.

But being largely ambidextrous is a big plus in that regard too.

oldtiffie
06-03-2010, 07:50 AM
Originally Posted by Paul Alciatore
Or stand on the other side.


Maybe Tiffie can send you some down under measuring tapes and rules!;)

Thanks AB.

I an not inclined to make, adhere to or enforce (too many) "Rules" so I defer to a better authority - the Bard and one of his master-pieces:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_for_Measure

Your Old Dog
06-03-2010, 08:00 AM
Thanks Dan, you-da-man ! Now to those of you who didn't follow what I said, doesn't this tape make it easier for you to mark with your right hand?

Lew, I can read it, just have to mark it with my less then accurate left hand instead of my dominant right hand.....that'd be the one with hair on it :D

http://www.leevalley.com/en/images/item/woodworking/markmeasure/06k1125g1b.jpg

Also, I would like to take this occasion to thank you all for helping me hijack John's thread. It feels good ! You gotta admit, his topic was pretty lame compared to mine. :D And John, Evan's right: Lazy bastard, mark your own :D

John Stevenson
06-03-2010, 08:03 AM
Here you go - Mitutoyo 182-211.

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx213/dvbydt/Engineering/Mitutoyo.jpg

IanR

Nice but still got those bloody half mills on.

John Stevenson
06-03-2010, 08:04 AM
Lazy Bastard. Make your own.



too busy making O rings

Evan
06-03-2010, 10:31 AM
Here, I've made you one. Took 5 minutes to make and 3 hours to upload at 387 baud. I hate satellite internet.

http://ixian.ca/pics7/ruler.jpg

Just go to the dollar store and buy some cheap rulers on anodized aluminum and wipe off the numbers with some solvent. Engrave and enjoy.

DXF file
http://ixian.ca/server/mm320.dxf

G-code
http://ixian.ca/metricruler.cnc

Circlip
06-03-2010, 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by The Artful Bodger
It would be nice too if rules were marked L-R one side and R-L the other.

They did, double pointy boat on other thread.

Regards Ian.

bob_s
06-03-2010, 01:32 PM
John:

Like all of us it's just that your eyes are losing the ability to focus on objects which are close.

Instead of getting extensions for your arms, just get a magnifying glass, and have a third arm surgically attached in order to hold it.

moldmonkey
06-04-2010, 12:36 AM
Instead of getting extensions for your arms, just get a magnifying glass, and have a third arm surgically attached in order to hold it.


http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=45035&cat=1,43513

Very handy. I use mine on verniers. It is a earlier, simpler version.

A big ditto on Sir Johns proposed ruler. It's very rare to need that fine of graduations without being able to use a better measuring tool and it adds just another way to make a mistake.:o

ulav8r
06-04-2010, 01:26 PM
John, You lazy B_____d, just use some paint to cover the half mill marks. Just remember to use the same color paint as the body of the rule.

Black_Moons
06-04-2010, 03:00 PM
I love how we can chat about anything on this forum, from hand rulers to milling microns.