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D_Harris
06-03-2010, 03:37 AM
I recently picked up a rotary table with tailstock and dividing plates.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370372023627

I'll be making all kinds of gears(Spur, helical, bevel, worm, etc). and was
looking for advice on clamping accessories and a chuck to put on it.(Provided
that wouldn't be too much for tm mini mill/drill). :-)

Recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Jim Shaper
06-03-2010, 05:00 AM
Put it in water so it can grow to be a 10" :p

I hope you don't find the surface to be too small to be functional. Having said that, the first thing I'd make for it would be a tool plate with threaded holes you can bolt to the surface to increase it's usable size.

In addition to the tool plate, I'd get a 6" chuck to affix to it. I find my 8" super spacer to be unbelievably handy.

BigBoy1
06-03-2010, 07:54 AM
My rotary table has a center hole with a #3MT. I have gotten a three and a four jaw chucks which mount in the tapered hole and I find them very helpful in holding items on the rotary table.

garagemark
06-03-2010, 08:28 AM
My little 6" Chi table has a #2 MT. I prchased a tiny 2" three jaw for it. Surprisingly useful little gizmo for the tiny stuff.

franco
06-03-2010, 09:24 PM
I have the same rotary table - good choice. I have a front mounting 6" 4 jaw chuck which mounts directly onto the table via the T slots, and a 4" 3 jaw which mounts with an adapter plate. I also made a 2MT to my lathe spindle nose adapter (with draw bolt) which allows the 3 and 4 jaw chucks from the lathe to be transferred to the R/T without disturbing the workpiece. This is very handy, but if used with the R/T horizontal the chuck needs to be restrained or it will unscrew.

You said: " I'll be making all kinds of gears(Spur, helical, bevel, worm, etc)." Spur gears are easy. Worm wheels should be OK but will require some thought to get the helix angle right for the worm. Bevel gears will have only a rough approximation of the correct tooth shape and will require some hand filing adjustment, but should work OK for slow, light duties. They would require a mounting for the R/T which allows it to be angled relative to the mill table. A dividing head would be a better choice for these. Helical gears - not quite sure how you could tackle those using just the mill and an R/T.

franco

dp
06-04-2010, 12:55 AM
I just went through that exercise my self. I took pictures:

http://metalworkingathome.com/?p=156

reggie_obe
06-04-2010, 12:06 PM
Turn a pointed spud to fit the R/T center hole. It will allow you to quickly mount the R/T and have it (roughly) centered under the mill spindle. Very little dialing in with an test indicator will be required afterward.

D_Harris
06-07-2010, 11:16 PM
Put it in water so it can grow to be a 10" :p

I hope you don't find the surface to be too small to be functional. Having said that, the first thing I'd make for it would be a tool plate with threaded holes you can bolt to the surface to increase it's usable size.

In addition to the tool plate, I'd get a 6" chuck to affix to it. I find my 8" super spacer to be unbelievably handy.

Well, I was told by most that a 6" rotary table was too large for my mini mill/drill. :D One person on this forum thought otherwise, so that's what I went with. :D

I was also looking to get a 5" inch chuck, but for my mini lathe, but was told by most that it was too big, because I would be able to take full advantage of it's holding capacity and it would put a lot of wear on the spindle of the lathe. The idea was to have the option of switching the chuck from the lathe to the mill/drill when needed.

So basically I'm torn. I couldn't find a 4-1/2" chuck and I need to be able to hold 4" square stock.

(Also, it looks like I may need to get a dividing head, because I want to create every type of gear imaginable). :D

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

D_Harris
06-07-2010, 11:21 PM
My little 6" Chi table has a #2 MT. I prchased a tiny 2" three jaw for it. Surprisingly useful little gizmo for the tiny stuff.

I was also considering this. But it may bee too small for my purposes. The inconsistent tapers pretty much guarantee that you'll be spending a lot more than intended to for the same tools you may already have.

My lathe's spindle is MT3(with an MT2 tailstock). My rotary table's center bore is MT2. And my Mill/Drill is R8.

(An I have a big set of 5C collets). :D

Thanks.

P.S.: Recommendations on clamping options for my table would be appreciated.

Darren

D_Harris
06-09-2010, 01:42 AM
I have the same rotary table - good choice. I have a front mounting 6" 4 jaw chuck which mounts directly onto the table via the T slots, and a 4" 3 jaw which mounts with an adapter plate. I also made a 2MT to my lathe spindle nose adapter (with draw bolt) which allows the 3 and 4 jaw chucks from the lathe to be transferred to the R/T without disturbing the workpiece. This is very handy, but if used with the R/T horizontal the chuck needs to be restrained or it will unscrew.


I'm still in the market for a chuck for my lathe that I can transfer to my rotary table. But I'm told that even though a 5" chuck would fit, it would be too large for my 7" x 14" mini lathe.(I would like a chuck that could hold a 4" square plate).

For the rotary table, I assume that I can easily mount a chuck that has an MT2 shaft, but those are small chucks. And I definitely wouldn't be able to transfer a 6" from the rotary table to my lathe. So basically, I'll need two chucks for each machine.




You said: " I'll be making all kinds of gears(Spur, helical, bevel, worm, etc)." Spur gears are easy. Worm wheels should be OK but will require some thought to get the helix angle right for the worm. Bevel gears will have only a rough approximation of the correct tooth shape and will require some hand filing adjustment, but should work OK for slow, light duties. They would require a mounting for the R/T which allows it to be angled relative to the mill table. A dividing head would be a better choice for these. Helical gears - not quite sure how you could tackle those using just the mill and an R/T.

franco

Does anyone here use a dividing head with a mini mill?

I'd appreciate experiences and recommendations.(I need an idea of what to keep my eyes open for).

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

dp
06-09-2010, 02:50 AM
Does anyone here use a dividing head with a mini mill?

I'd appreciate experiences and recommendations.(I need an idea of what to keep my eyes open for).

I don't yet but I'm going to. The advantage is the various compound angles you can work with vs the rotary table. You can, for example, make a bevel gear. My only problem is I don't have a need for it so I can't explain the purchase to my wife with a straight face.

oldtiffie
06-09-2010, 03:19 AM
Originally Posted by D_Harris
Does anyone here use a dividing head with a mini mill?

I'd appreciate experiences and recommendations.(I need an idea of what to keep my eyes open for).

I don't yet but I'm going to. The advantage is the various compound angles you can work with vs the rotary table. You can, for example, make a bevel gear. My only problem is I don't have a need for it so I can't explain the purchase to my wife with a straight face.

Not necessarily so Dennis.

While a dividing head tackles bevel gears by tilting upward it needs a horizontal tool arbor - as on a horizontal mill.

You can achieve the same result with a vertical mill and a rotary table. The cutter is put on the vertical arbor and set that the rotary table centre height and the rotary table is set vertically and its axis rotated left/right as the dividing head axis was rotated up/down.

The cutter is set over the job axis on a dividing head but is set to the side of the job on a rotary table.

The actual orientation of the job and indexing device in absolute terms on the one hand and the position of the cutter on the other hand is not as important as the relative orientation of the indexer and job on one hand and the axis of the cutter and its arbor on the other.

In short, it is both quite possible and practical to cut bevel gears with a rotary table set vertically and the cutter arbor axis set vertically - as will be the case on a vertical mill.

I have never needed a dividing head as I don't have a need for a universal (horizontal) mill.

If I need to tilt the job axis relative to the arbor (vertical) axis I either tilt the milling head or mount the rotary table on a tilting angle plate.

Simple and compound angles are very easy to set. I used a 0.1* (6 arc minutes) digital protractor/bevel guage to set these. If I really need more accuracy I will use my precision angle blocks.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Seig_X3_mill/SeigX3_15.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Seig_X3_mill/SeigX3_19.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/measuring/Angleplates3.jpg

dp
06-09-2010, 03:57 AM
Not necessarily so Dennis.

While a dividing head tackles bevel gears by tilting upward it needs a horizontal tool arbor - as on a horizontal mill.

I may have a learning opportunity here. I was thinking that Sir John's "D" bits would do the trick. Cutter example: http://www.youtube.com/user/John5tevenson#p/u/7/fps0OR1eF_s

In the case of a bevel gear, the head does not rotate, but is tipped up appropriately.

It (the dividing head) would also have to be swung at the convergence point of the bevel so as to cut both sides of the bevel. For that it would sit on a plate that pivots on the table.

I should probably draw a picture.

The other thing is, my mill doesn't have enough head room to put my rotab on a tilt table. Some day...

oldtiffie
06-09-2010, 04:28 AM
Dennis.

The rotary table on a vertical mill only has to be set vertical and rotated left/right the same angle that a dividing head on a horizontal mill is tilted upward so you should be better off with a rotary table which will or may require less head-room than a dividing head.

The cutter is set to the side (back or front) of the job centre (which is horizontal) will gain quite a bit of head-room as compare to that of a dividing head where the cutter is over the tilted job and dividing head.

The dividing head vertical axis is set to the horizontal when a rotary table is used.

Think about it.

I am sure that there will be a Newtonian apple (penny?) drop and the "Eureka" ("I've got it") moment (sorry - couldn't resist it) will arrive:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_(word)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_effect

"light bulb moment"??
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&source=hp&q=light+bulb+moment+definition&aq=2&aqi=g5g-m1&aql=&oq=light+bulb+moment&gs_rfai=&fp=24f291d940157105

Tell your wife that you no longer need or want a dividing head and she will be so pleased with and proud of you!!! - which of course, being the modest chap that you are will agree with fulsomely as you apparently defer to her new-found regard and esteem that she has (will have) for your assiduity and diligence and your very good graces in ample form.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assiduity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diligence

If it all goes pear-shaped, blame "that ba$tard tiffie" - and "why not" you say and say I.

You are on a winner here Dennis.

You wish!!

D_Harris
06-09-2010, 09:31 AM
Ok. Like I mentioned, I do have a mini mill/drill. So it comes down to figuring out what I can do within the work envelope.

I don't even know if I have enough room for my rotary table, which is 3.11" in height, to fit on a tilt table.(Though I am considering getting this: http://www.grizzlyindustrial.com/products/3-Rotary-Table-w-Clamps/H6195

So if not a dividing head, then can I get recommendations on a tilting table?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

oldtiffie
06-09-2010, 06:43 PM
Darren.

I checked the Grizzly web page on the link you posted and these are the rotary table specifications:


Description
Horizontal or vertical use. 3" diameter table rotates 360. Low profile - only 1.670" tall. 4- 5/16" T-slots. 1:36 ratio or 10 per handwheel revolution. Scale reads to 15 minutes. Brass lock knob.

Unless you are planning to use the rotary table for milling concentrically or drilling holes on a pitch circle, I'd give it a miss for a while at least.

An accuracy (calibrated) of 15 minutes (1/4 degree) is nowhere near the accuracy of most vernier or digital protractors which are calibrated to 0.1 degree (6 minutes).

I'd clamp most stuff to the mill table and use the head-space that is freed up by not using the rotary table.

You can always use "X" and "Y" co-ordinates instead of a rotary function if needs be. A good calculator will solve many of those items - or better yet use a cheap CAD package to get the co-ordinates for you.

Why buy a tilting table if your mini-mill vertical column will pivot and tilt left/right? It saves a lot of head-room.

There is no reason why the job can't be clamped to a drill press with a tilted table. It just needs a bit of careful marking out and centre-punching. And you will have way more room too - X, Y, and Z.

There are many alternatives and "work-arounds" in most shops - it just needs a bit of creative thinking and looking at other ways of doing the job or of getting it done.

Its not too often that I have to set up and drill on my mills - the pedestal drill is my first port of call in that regard.

I start off by breaking all jobs down to their simplest and easiest components and methods and work up from there.

D_Harris
06-22-2010, 01:48 AM
OK. I guess I'll stick with the rotary table I have and get a clamping set.

(Now to decide on Kurt style or screwless vise). :-)

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Jim Shaper
06-22-2010, 02:17 AM
Screwless vises are a royal pain on a mill. For a grinder, they're wonderful, but only because they take up far less room on the mag chuck (and they're easier to clean the grit out of).

Get a Kurt, get a craftsman sliding T handle (free shipping if ordered online in a sears store - since they don't stock the damn things anymore), and a socket that fits the hex and be done with it. = $12 speed handle that can still extend for leverage without switching tools.

Paul Alciatore
06-22-2010, 02:49 AM
Screwless vises are a royal pain on a mill. ......

Not so. Screwless vises are a joy on a mill because they do not allow the part to rotate and ride up as a regular vise will. With the expensive Kurts or whatever this effect is less, but you still have to tap the part down against parallels to keep it level. This is because the movable jaw is able to rise up a bit when it is tightened.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/EPAIII/ViseLift.jpg

In a screwless, you just set the part in the vise (on parallels if needed) and tighten. No rotation or rise-up. The downward force used to tighten the jaw holds it down against the vise's bed. The only real problem is keeping the hex key handy, but with other types, you need to keep the dead blow hammer handy so it's an even trade-off.