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unclejon
06-03-2010, 11:25 AM
I have access to a fair amount of gasoline drained from junked cars. I would appreciate any thoughts on ways of using this gas in my personal vehicle.
Filtering and dewatering would be no problem. I am concerned about the gas being "stale", etc.

Thanks in advance.

Jon

Liger Zero
06-03-2010, 11:50 AM
I would blend it with "new" gas.

CountZero
06-03-2010, 12:38 PM
I use old gas in my lawn mower, in hope that it will die so I can get a new automatic one... hasn't happned yet guess the fairly low compression briggs and stratton engine isn't so sensitive.

I remember seeing a thread about old gasoline about a year ago, might have been in a thread that drifted off topic and started with something totally different subject so it might not be easy to search out.

I wonder if blending it with some E85 would be good since it is a bit more high octance than regular. I donšt know it is common in your are though.

Doc Nickel
06-03-2010, 01:31 PM
If the fuel is drained from relatively new cars with typical emission controls, and the tank and most of the connections were intact, the fuel should be acceptable. Modern tanks are well sealed as an emission control, and that keeps the lighter ends from evaporating- at least, quite as fast.

The fuel itself won't "break down" too much over a few years, but of course, the older it is, the worse it gets. The older it is, the worse water intrusion from condensation gets, too.

If it were me, I'd make sure it's well-filtered, and only add about a third for every tankful. The more modern the car you'll be using it in, the more sensitive it'll be, thanks to oxygen sensors and knock sensors and so forth. But if you had an old carbureted Ford truck or something, you could probably just run it straight.

Doc.

JanvanSaane
06-03-2010, 05:40 PM
I go by smell, you can definately tell good gas from bad gas just by the smell. If it has a hint of the smell of varnish get rid of it. Or maybe I have just sniffed to many toxic fumes. :D Jan

dr pepper
06-03-2010, 05:52 PM
Fuel starts to break down after a few weeks, it can still be used after a few months.
The major thing that changes is the octane, this lowers with time, esp if the petrol is in warm weather, this can cause your car to pre-ignite, knock, or pink, or whatever its called over the water, this can be very damaging to the engine as you probably know, if you take it fairly easy and your driving an older car with a few miles on the clock you'll get away with it ( especially if it has a knock sensor), a mate of mine runs his range rover on scrap car salvaged fuel and thats been fine.
Cars from the early 90's dont have direct vents to atmosphere in the tank, instead the tank 'breaths' through a carbon canister, the harmfull hydrocarbons get soaked into the carbon, and next time the car is driven, every time the engine is overrun, a valve is pulsed and the carbon canister is connected to the inlet manifold and the harmfull stuff is sucked into the engine and burned, at least thats the idea.
The carbon restricts the flow of air to the tank which makes the petrol last a bit longer before it goes 'off'.
Personally I think if its been there a year or more then its dead, ok for mowers and starting fires.

oldtiffie
06-03-2010, 06:00 PM
I go by smell, you can definately tell good gas from bad gas just by the smell. If it has a hint of the smell of varnish get rid of it. Or maybe I have just sniffed to many toxic fumes. :D Jan

Take it easy Jan - don't sniff up big too often. Its called "chroming" here:



Australia
Australia has long faced a petrol (gasoline) sniffing problem, especially in isolated and impoverished aboriginal communities. Although some sources argue that sniffing was introduced by United States servicemen stationed in the nation's Top End during World War II,[32] or through experimentation by 1940s-era Cobourg Peninsula sawmill workers,[33] other sources claim that inhalant abuse (such as glue inhalation) emerged in Australia in the late 1960s.[5] Chronic, heavy petrol sniffing appears mainly to occur among remote, impoverished indigenous communities, where the ready accessibility of petrol has helped to make it a common substance for abuse.

In Australia, petrol sniffing now occurs widely throughout remote aboriginal communities in the Northern Territory, Western Australia, northern parts of South Australia and Queensland. The number of people sniffing petrol goes up and down over time as young people experiment or sniff occasionally. 'Boss' or chronic sniffers may move in and out of communities; they are often responsible for encouraging young people to take it up.[34]

A 1983 survey of 4,165 secondary students in New Lydiate showed that solvents and aerosols ranked just after analgesics (e.g., codeine pills) and alcohol for drugs that were abused. This 1983 study did not find any common usage patterns or social class factors.[5] The causes of death for inhalant users in Australia included pneumonia, cardiac failure/arrest, aspiration of vomit, and burns. In 1985, there were 14 communities in Central Australia reporting young people sniffing. In July 1997, it was estimated that there were around 200 young people sniffing petrol across 10 communities in Central Australia. Approximately 40 were classified as 'chronic' sniffers. There have been reports of young Aboriginal people sniffing petrol in the urban areas around Darwin and Alice Springs.

In 2005, the Government of Australia and BP Australia began the usage of Opal fuel in remote areas prone to petrol sniffing.[35] Opal is a non-sniffable fuel (which is much less likely to cause a "high"), and has made a difference in some indigenous communities.

from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inhalant#Australia

at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inhalant

x39
06-03-2010, 09:09 PM
Just dump it behind the shed like the millions of other gallons of ethanol contaminated gasoline that have deteriorated over the winter.

Bill736
06-03-2010, 09:25 PM
I've heard some bad stories about very old gasoline causing valve stems to gum up and stick . I don't know if they are true , but I currently have about 30 gallons of stale gas that I refuse to use in any of my engines. However, if the valve stem gumming issue is real, perhaps adding some top cylinder oil to the stale gas would prevent it. Marvel Mystery Oil is a good top cylinder oil , and is widely available retail. Top cylinder oil is routinely added to gasoline by refiners, and helps prevent valve tulip deposits .

Don Young
06-03-2010, 09:51 PM
I've heard some bad stories about very old gasoline causing valve stems to gum up and stick . I don't know if they are true , but I currently have about 30 gallons of stale gas that I refuse to use in any of my engines. However, if the valve stem gumming issue is real, perhaps adding some top cylinder oil to the stale gas would prevent it. Marvel Mystery Oil is a good top cylinder oil , and is widely available retail. Top cylinder oil is routinely added to gasoline by refiners, and helps prevent valve tulip deposits .

I can verify this by personal experience. I used some old gasoline in my Farmall Cub tractor, thinking that the very basic engine would run okay. It did run fine for several hours of mowing. When I shut it down and tried to restart it several days later, there was no compression in any cylinder. It puzzled me for a while but I soon discovered that all four exhaust valves were stuck open. A little work with solvent got them freed up and the next step was to drain the tank and carburetor. Had a little trouble with sticky valves for some time afterwards but it finally cleared up. No more using stale gas for me, but that certainly doesn't mean everyone would experience the same problem. There is definitely some risk, I feel.

Don Young

J Tiers
06-03-2010, 09:59 PM
I have some engines that sit for quite awhile, and most start easily, on first or second pull even with the stale gas.......

Might be a first time, but so far so good. I also doubt that there would be any harm in using up old gas a quart or two at a time in a full tank, particularly if you will burn it soon. Might not be good winter gas....

Bad gas?

I got some bad gas a few years ago, on the north-west corner of Cleveland and Grand ave in St Paul , MN...... I noticed it right away, on my way out of town..... Got on 94 at Vandalia, going East, and the car would hardly accelerate at all..... If I had not been late already, I would have gone back and knocked some heads....

Anyhow, I would normally have gotten past Janesville WI on a tank, but I HAD to fill up in the Dells.... WELL short.... I don't know what sort of mileage I got, but it was so bad I could about SEE the gauge dropping. I suspect that the station proprietors had turned the hose into the tank, relying on the ethanol to "carry" a lot of water.

Since the new tankful INSTANTLY improved performance, I can be pretty sure it was actually low energy content, and not an issue with clogging etc.

I'd have rather HAD some "stale" gas instead of the waterlogged stuff I got that day.....

Black_Moons
06-04-2010, 01:57 PM
Tip from grandpa:
Old gas is great... For starting fires! Never use it straight, dilute about half an half with oil (Or 1/3 to 1/4 oil if you want to live dangerious) and it becomes a nice thick black liquid that catchs fire easily, but does not evaporate fast enough to produce dangerious explosions when lit, and generaly does not 'burn up' the stream to your gas can (I use an old 1 gallon glass jug!), also sticks enough to wood to get it burning.

As for gas stations, yea gas stations in the middle of nowhere on routes can be dangerious to use since they know thier customers are not comming back. Who knows how stale/old/waterfilled it is.

Also never fill up at a gas station with the refilling truck in the parking lot. when they pump all that gas in, it stirs up all the settament and crap at the bottom of the tank and you'll get it in your tank if you pump up then.

Also, The 'frontmost' pump nearest to the store front is usally by far the slowest, because someone allways fills up there just after the pumper truck arrives, cloging the hell outta the gas pumps filters. As a gas station attentant I noticed that pump would often be 1/5th to 1/10th the speed of the rest of the pumps, even just days after the filter was replaced. Try the outside lesser used pumps.

I wonder if any of those 'Keep gas from geling!' perservative agents can do anything about gas allready geled.. or if theres an effective way of filtering out the varnish. Carbon filter canister maybe?

darryl
06-04-2010, 02:33 PM
I fired up the toyota after two years of non-use, and the old gas still worked. I filled the tank with fresh and burned all that up, and of course it ran better on the fresh gas.

I might be tempted to add a proportion of methyl hydrate to the gas, plus an octane boost or fuel stabilizer. Use it up and run some fresh through afterwards. The big thing otherwise would be what to do with the stale fuel- is there any place that would take it, like they do used oil?

Black_Moons
06-04-2010, 06:11 PM
I think my local recycleing/bottle depot takes (contaminated) gas.. Unfortualy they mention it must be brought to them in an approved container and the container will NOT be returned.
F that, i'll burn it on my firepit with used oil before I hand over expensive jerry cans when they likey just pour it all into a giant tank anyway.

ttok
06-04-2010, 06:34 PM
Guys -

There are two grades of gasoline - summer and winter. The winter grade is slightly more volatile than the summer grade, and thus degrades quicker. Using old summer grade gas in the winter requires mixing only a small amount at a time in the tank. Better to use the old stuff up in the summer.

You can use the old gas a little at a time in your car - probably not more than 5% of the volume of the gas in the tank. This should use it up without causing problems. Gasoline does get old - it loses its butane fraction and then other light ends first. This lowers engine performance if the tank has only old gas in it.

A.T.

Weston Bye
06-04-2010, 06:42 PM
I took delivery of a new mower last year. The guy who delivered it advised me to use premium gasoline, as the octane in all gas began dropping as soon as it was put in the can. The idea was that premium started higher so would take longer to fade down to the equal of regular. Said the engine would run OK on regular even when old, but in cool weather it might be harder to start.

Also, speaking of premium gasoline, I once had a car that began to "stumble" occsaionally. I thougrt it might need a tune-up. The mechanic at the garage suggested that I run a tank of premium through it first, and bring the car in if things didn't improve. I did, and didn't have to get the tune-up.

Orrin
06-04-2010, 08:46 PM
Trying to use old gasoline in an engine is asking for trouble. We have seven licensed vehicles and only two drivers and a garage full of antique one-lung engines. Although we try to put our seldom-used equipment away with empty tanks, it is inevitable that one or another winds up with stale gas in it

Before starting I always drain the tank. If you saw what comes out, sometimes, you'd swear off using stale gasoline.

Orrin

gwilson
06-04-2010, 08:54 PM
I messed up my lawn mower's carb by not draining the old gas out and starting with fresh in the spring. After some years of doing that,the jets got coated with a sugary looking insoluble mess. I had to take it to get it fixed with a new carb. Shouldn't have been so careless.

J Tiers
06-04-2010, 09:25 PM
As for gas stations, yea gas stations in the middle of nowhere on routes can be dangerious to use since they know thier customers are not comming back. Who knows how stale/old/waterfilled it is.




Well, if you knew the area, you'd know the station I got the crap gas at was a busy intersection in the middle of the "Twin Cities"...... NOT a po-dunk place that sells 3 tanks of gas every week..... It was full of people that day, and I bet there were a lot of mad-as-heck folks soon after that coming back and yelling like a BP VP.

That station was torn out and whatever it is now is not a gas station anymore, hence fingering it so specifically with no fear of come-backs. Maybe if they used the hose to water their gas too much that put them out of business.

1937 Chief
06-04-2010, 09:34 PM
If it still smells good it should be ok. If you ever smell old gas you will know real quick. I put some old gas in one of my tractors, and had nothing but problems with sticking valves. It will need to be real fresh before I will ever use old gas again. I think the gas I was dealing with was about 15 years old. I have a drum of old diesel from the 50's that still may be ok, but am a little afraid to use it. Stan

Falcon67
06-04-2010, 09:58 PM
Makes a great weed killer. Also works well on red ant beds. Not for use in cars, mowers, etc.

Orrin
06-05-2010, 08:42 PM
I messed up my lawn mower's carb by not draining the old gas out and starting with fresh in the spring. After some years of doing that,the jets got coated with a sugary looking insoluble mess. I had to take it to get it fixed with a new carb. Shouldn't have been so careless.

We had a container of stale gasoline and I warned my wife not to use it. Well, she filled the lawn mower with it, anyhow, and it refused to run. It's carburetor had some sort of elastomer o-ring for the needle valve seat. That stale crap caused it to swell up so much the "donut hole" closed off, tight, and wouldn't let a drop of gasoline into the bowl.

I overhauled the carb and it has run fine ever since, on fresh fuel.

A neighbor once asked me to get a mower running. It had been idle for years and refused to start. To make a long story short, I pulled a four-inch long slug of brown slime out of the fuel line. It ran after that.

Orrin

jatt
06-06-2010, 02:44 AM
My use for the real old stuff is parts soaking/cleaning. After that some fire starting or ant killing is in order.

Oil well theres always some posts/garden sleepers to paint.