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View Full Version : KBC Tools rocks



MotorradMike
06-03-2010, 09:56 PM
Hi guys:

Just gotta say:
I placed an order with them this Monday and they have delighted me like nobody has since I was 19, but that's a different story.

Anybody in Canada stuck for stuff from McMaster-Carr should definitely check them out. They don't have the same range but...

squirrel
06-03-2010, 10:18 PM
What wrong with McMaster? They have always shipped our stuff the next day. KBC is nice too, Rutland is not bad, I don't think those two are part of the MSC empire.

MotorradMike
06-03-2010, 10:52 PM
What wrong with McMaster? They have always shipped our stuff the next day. KBC is nice too, Rutland is not bad, I don't think those two are part of the MSC empire.

I don't think anything is wrong with McMaster-Carr. They terminated my 10 year account due to security issues with shipping outside of the USA. I don't blame them but I still need stuff.

I suspect you live in the USA.

Black_Moons
06-04-2010, 03:43 PM
KBCtools sucks here in canada.
First off: EVERY single item KBC sells is 30% more expensive on there .ca website then the .com. Even $3000 2lb items, so its not shiping, and not tax. They offer no real excuse for this other then gougeing canadians when other people have phoned and asked them.

Iv bought several items from them, only to have them not be remotely the same as the item pictured in the catalog (even the monthly sales catalog often has pictures of the WRONG item with diffrent features!), item discriptions wrong (like saying a belt/disk sander runs at 2000sfm and the disk at 1800rpm, when it has a 2" wheel for the belt.. hint, the math says 1000sfm~)

There toolroom grinder for example had the following faults:
No reversal of motor
No holes for mounting diamond/cbn wheel on the right
Blew deticated 15A slowblow circuit breakers half the time on turnon due to NO STARTING MECHANISM AT ALL, no starting relay or current relay or anything, just a pitafuly undersized starting capacitor so it took 30+ seconds to spin up, insted of using a decent sized starting capacitor and a relay to avoid burning out the starting winding. Praticaly had to hand spinup the wheels to get it to startup without blowing a breaker.
The wheels where held on by large 1" nuts.. that prevented the worktable from getting within 3/4" of a diamond/cbn wheel.

Nothing was keyed, so even if you could get it to reverse the nuts would unscrew themselfs eventualy.
Oh, and it cost $500+ insted of harbor freights MUCH better clone for $180
The one I returned still sits on the KBC 'used item' shelfs to this day, without a dollar taken off its price.

I bought a compass from them that turned out to be made half outta plastic and have lame 'bending' points in it that constantly bend whenever you try and use it, ruining your circle, when the one pictured showed all metal construction and no lame bending points half way down the arms.

Iv had to return multiple files because they keep sending me the wrong ones! I order a bastard and smooth of the same file and they send me two smooths! or order a safe edge file and they send me a normal file!

Anyone in canada should shop at (in no perticular order) Glacern, Shars, KMStools, Busybee, Grizzly (Now ships to canada?), Enco (Has better selection then KBCtools and better prices!), Tools4cheap, Princess auto, Hell, even horror freight id call better customer service and dollar value then KBCtools.

David Powell
06-04-2010, 05:43 PM
I was a regular customer of KBC Tools, both for my own business and my employer. One Tuesday I received flyers and discount coupons at home showing that a new branch was opening a little nearer than the main store. The flyer gave times of opening, including Saturday mornings. On that very Friday i left my parallels on my employer's mill, and on Sat morning up came a customer with a job that needed parallels. I climbed into the old truck, early Dodge Diesel and clattered off, only to find a hand written scrawl on the door saying " Closed due to Holiday weekend". I fired off a fax of complaint, and was invited to return to the store to discuss the matter. To my astonishment when I returned, hoping perhaps for an apology and perhaps a few discount coupons the manager virtually called me an idiot for working on a holiday weekend. I didnt go back for years. About 5 yrs ago I went to the main store , dealt with a salesman i had not met before and bought one item, and was asked If I would like to go on the mailing list, I said yes and gave my details. I never heard a thing and can only suppose I am on a blacklist for complaining, They have probably lost over $ 30,000 of custom from me and the firms I have worked for since the first incident. I will not willingly or easily ever deal with them again. Regards David Powell.

motorworks
06-04-2010, 06:57 PM
Hi
KBC customer since 1988....
Great service and good products.
The TMX line is a great product for the $$
eddie

squirrel
06-04-2010, 09:27 PM
I don't think anything is wrong with McMaster-Carr. They terminated my 10 year account due to security issues with shipping outside of the USA. I don't blame them but I still need stuff.

I suspect you live in the USA.
Yes, that is an issue. We stopped all export sales over $200 unless they are paid with direct bank wire transfer.

Jrose
06-05-2010, 02:59 AM
KBC- you get what you pay for, they sell alot of made in China junk, but almost everyone carries low quality import stuff. Another good one is Travers Tool, check online or they will send big catalog. Edmonton has Thomas Skinner they sell excellent quality good name stuff but $$.

MotorradMike
06-05-2010, 09:26 AM
KBCtools sucks here in canada.


Wow. We seem to have had completely different experiences.
One item had to ship from the states and it was a holiday so they made 2 shipments. Total shipping - $12

I buy chinese crap but I also buy good stuff and I appreciate the choice.

Thanks for the other options you guys have posted.
I'll check them out.

airsmith282
06-05-2010, 10:22 AM
before i buy anything for my shop i always shop around, and so far KBC has never once come close to the same or cheaper price then the places i use here which are haskins and Busy bee.

PixMan
06-05-2010, 11:30 AM
I buy from KBC occasionally, but nothing that isn't a well-known name brand. I got the best prices on 16ER threading inserts from them, and they were Carmex (who was the supplier to Valenite.)

When I was buying a insert cutoff blade-holder block, they had an untouchable price on a Made In USA Newcomer. Everyone else was over $100 (Valenite was over $200!) but their Newcomer was PERFECT for about $74. They still have those prices, BTW.

I placed orders by phone using their on-line catalog numbers. When using their website to order, their e-commerce site SUCKS because there's no way yo know what the shipping & handling charges are until AFTER you've entered your credit card information.

I'll continue to do some business with them, but only when I can truly know that their prices are best.

Black_Moons
06-05-2010, 01:28 PM
You guys who mention KBC has the 'best prices' on some things forget to mention one thing. for us canadians the exchange rate is now 1:1 yet KBC canada prices are 30% higher then kbc.com
So here in canada, they generaly have the WORST prices, and just 'ok' prices when there US site has 'really good' prices on something or a big sale.

motorworks
06-05-2010, 08:16 PM
Not to keep the post going but I must explain...
I do this, machining, for a living as well as a hobby.
Most times I do not have the time to shop around or wait for a reply from someone on e-bay , etc
KBC and Kennametal is usually over night
Travers is 2- 3 days.
And Yes I pay more, but time = money squared.
(This was Einstein second great discovery :) )

And I do shop around and get bargins elsewhere when I have time... :)

eddie

airsmith282
06-05-2010, 08:53 PM
You guys who mention KBC has the 'best prices' on some things forget to mention one thing. for us canadians the exchange rate is now 1:1 yet KBC canada prices are 30% higher then kbc.com
So here in canada, they generaly have the WORST prices, and just 'ok' prices when there US site has 'really good' prices on something or a big sale.

our dollars are not exactly 1:1 but even so , there is still duty to pay so the prices are still going to be hi for us in canada.. so long as we have duty to pay plus not to mention some US states we have to not only pay their tax but both of ours as well when it hit the border .so again the prices stay up, and right now there is no go around for this garbadge,

DougA
06-06-2010, 08:43 AM
I own a business in Windsor Ontario. We have a KBC right up the street. We use them regularly because when I need something they usually have it in stock. The last few days when my employee went in to pick up small items he got the doesn't reach minimum bull. If this continues we will likely start going elsewhere for our needs. I can see a min. if you are ordering something that needs to be shipped but for walk in it drives me nuts.

Doug

kbc
06-08-2010, 09:13 AM
Hey Everyone,

I am the President of KBC Tools & Machinery. I love the concept of a public forum. We get a ton of new clients every year from forums just like this and word of mouth. With over 15,000 active clients within the past 6 months, that's a lot of word of mouth - and it's powerful stuff.

While I certainly respect your right to have an opinion and voice it, it kills me to see an angry client take to the web to voice his complaints in a never ending blast. (name removed), Black Moons, is a client of ours...or has been, in B.C. Each one of his complaints has always been addressed, even before he chose to blast us in public. We have taken product back when he deemed it inappropriate. We have been polite. We have listened. We have apologized. He has e-mailed me anonymously, and I have responded with an offer to speak in person. (I like to know who I am conversing with, and I don't wish my words to be cut and pasted out of context as so often happens on the web. Unfortunately, (name removed) didn't want to talk as his cell phone plan would cost him money to speak during regular business hours.) He has chosen this method to voice his complaints. We are still waiting for the return of one of the items that he continues to discuss here....since March.

KBC Tools is a stand up company. My father started it. I've worked here coming on 20 years. We earn our client's business one order at a time every day. If for any reason you are not satisfied, we take care of it. We deal with thousands of clients every month, and they keep coming back, because we do offer honest, straight forward service, pricing, and selection. We have one of the lowest product return rates in the industry. We are celebrating 45 years in business this year: we achieved this by taking care of our clients and providing them with industrial quality products at good prices. We do what we say, and we say what we do.

We are sure that you will find this the case when you deal with KBC. If for any reason you have an issue that your KBC Branch Manager cannot resolve, you can reach me at 905-564-6600, ext. 306 or paula@kbctools.com - please include your name, company name, address, and phone number so I can look into the matter first.

Sincerely yours,

Paula Bass
President
KBC Tools & Machinery

oldtiffie
06-08-2010, 09:24 AM
"POW"!!!!

WOW.

Great "as it really is - warts and all" post Paula.

Its nice to see traders take up an issue here so that we can see and appreciate both sides - for good or bad.

hardtail
06-08-2010, 09:25 AM
Welcome to the forum, great to have the president address this. I have done business with you in the past and likely will in the future as I found your products very satisfactory. I just wonder why the discreptancy between US and Canadian pricing now the dollar is close to par?

Lance

Black_Moons
06-08-2010, 01:19 PM
Ok i'll admit you have offered to take it back and did take back the toolroom grinder. Very nice of you.

But as is (recently moved), I live over 2 hours drive from the nearest KBCtools, its not worth it for me to return this belt sander. I don't even have the time to return it if it was. I use it now as a vivid reminder not to shop for machinery at KBCtools.

Iv bought 2 machines at KBCtools and both have to be returned due to not as advertised? And several smaller items I just kept even though they where not as advertised, just too long a drive to return, and rejected many items at the counter that where not as advertised. You can bet I am gonna be pissed and vocal about it for a long time. You'r free to comment back online as you have. your satisifyed customers are more then free to argue with me as they have.

Thats what makes the internet a wonderful place. Everyone gets thier say, the reader gets to read everyone and weigh everyones views in. Maybe they ignore me. Maybe they come forward with thier own storys, good or bad.

However making stuff right after the fact, does not erase the fact that it was not right in the first place as it should of been, And maybe iv just picked the wrong items but, I consider the whole thing a huge waste of my time. You can't refund me several hours of driving back and forth. Usally I tryed to keep things untill my next KBCtools trip.. But well, Havent made once since buying that belt sander way back when.

Items should not be just subsatuted in the catalog, they should be listed as 'No longer avilable' and a new item placed somewhere with a new picture. Of course then again seeing as KBC still uses it 2008 catalog as they did'nt bother getting a 2009 printed.. (Did they get a 2010 yet?)....

PS: I really disliked getting a call at 8:30am while I was trying to sleep.
My cell phone also charges me for *incomming* long distance calls just as much as the outgoing ones. And being a payasyougo cell phone, those rates are really high.

The main reason I shoped at KBC was some of the sale prices without shiping (local pickup) where about equal to internet prices and I try to support local businesses. But rarely where any of the standard prices any cheaper then ordering off online and paying shiping. I think i'll just stick to enco and such and save myself the long drive.


Ya know, if you really wanna do something to shut me up, Reset all of your canadian prices to USA*Exchange rate, insted of USA*130%
And start importing whatever carbide grinder harbor freight/grizzly has, its 10x better then the one you sell for $500 vs the one they sell for $150~250

MotorradMike
06-08-2010, 02:05 PM
Black Moons:

Sometimes, things go sideways, sometimes, a few things in a row go sideways.

There are lots of isolated cases with different companies that we all read about. In some cases, it's a terrible company but in most cases, it's not.

I wonder how they figured out your real name? I'm thinking the history made it obvious, and that points to yours being an isolated case.

Willy
06-08-2010, 03:13 PM
Black_Moons:

Like MotorradMike said, sometimes things go as planed and sometimes not.

It's not a perfect world, neither for you or any of the tool and machinery dealers either. I'm sure they all try their best to gain customer support and loyalty...it's in their best interest!

As far as Canadian companies charging prices at par with the US dollar...I don't think so. There are far too many variables other than just the exchange rate to deal with. If you haven't noticed, it costs substantially more to do business in Canada than the US. When you cross that border tax structures, labor costs, transportation, and real estate costs are vastly different than US operating costs. I'm sure there are a host of other variances associated with business costs related to do doing business in Canada.

Just as an example look at the difference between US auto prices vs. Canadian prices. Auto dealers in Canada are having a hard time staying afloat...they aren't all making millions, in spite of the increased cost to the Canadian consumer.
It just costs more to operate in Canada.

Another question...what happens when Enco ships you something that you aren't satisfied with? Now you have even higher shipping costs associated in returning your items. They are a lot further than a 2 hour drive from your home. You have to realize that unfortunately it's impossible to have a well stocked tool and machinery dealer on every block.
Like I said earlier...it's not a perfect world.

You comment about KBC waking you up at 8:30AM....what!!!
Do you expect them to be mind readers?
What do you do when the doctor's office or the dentist's office phones to remind you of an appointment?
Last I checked, it is pretty well standard business procedure to do business between 8 AM-5 PM.
These people are phoning in order to help you. Unfortunately they don't know you schedule.
How would you have them contact you?

In the end no matter who you deal with there are going to be issues, sometimes the issue will be with you, sometimes it will be the retailer.
Try to work with them and I'm sure they will work with you...it's in everyones best interest.

Edited for spelling

torker
06-08-2010, 04:46 PM
I dealt with KBC Vancouver for a few years.
Had a very rocky start...mainly because the people on the other end of the phone couldn't speak English.
My orders where never complete....lots of things where missed on their end.
Then they hired a guy ...Tyler...geez...he was good to deal with.
Orders always filled or he would let me know if something was back ordered...
Things where great.
I did have a problem with the quality of a set of boring bars...
I ended up talking to the Van store manager...a woman...can't remember her name.
She was really great to deal with and corrected the situation asap.
Then...I guess Tyler quit or whatever...
I was right back to square one...orders missing things...could barely understand who I was talking to on the phone...etc, etc.
I quit dealling with them.
Started dealing with a smaller outfit and never had a problem.
Russ

Black_Moons
06-08-2010, 05:04 PM
Black_Moons:

Another question...what happens when Enco ships you something that you aren't satisfied with? Now you have even higher shipping costs associated in returning your items. They are a lot further than a 2 hour drive from your home. You have to realize that unfortunately it's impossible to have a well stocked tool and machinery dealer on every block.
Like I said earlier...it's not a perfect world.


Actualy, the online suppliers I have delt with who ship wrong, incorrect or misadvertised items have either A: Paid for full return shiping and sent me the correct item as pictured, or full refund, often including origional shiping costs
B: Let me keep the wrong item, and sent me the correct one express shiping free of charge, usally after just e-mailing them a few pictures of the item or damage.

Usally they pick route B, So its not much more then a small delay and costs me no more time then taking a photo and making an e-mail.

Either way im out not $15+ in gas and over an hours time on the road... assuming traffic is good.

On the flip side, KBC staff and such has been great. They have tryed to resolve it. but at this point im out hours of driving and lots of money in gas and I just do not feel like trying to resolve it anymore as I know they won't and should'nt have to pay my gas/time. I'll just keep this belt sander as a reminder to myself to shop elsewhere insted and save myself the time.

Im satisifyed just cutting my loses and moving on. Lots of other good reviews here so maybe I just got the short end of the stick. *shrugs*

dockrat
06-08-2010, 05:12 PM
Then...I guess Tyler quit or whatever...
I was right back to square one...orders missing things...could barely understand who I was talking to on the phone...etc, etc.
I quit dealling with them.
Started dealing with a smaller outfit and never had a problem.
Russ

Russ, Tyler is still there or it's another Tyler lol but if its the same one, your right, he is great to deal with. Last friday I orderd a CA toolpost along with some QC toolholders and insert holders. He quoted 5 days delivery from Ontario and Michigan. Today (tuesday) everything except the toolpost itself, which is coming from Michigan is here, but it has been shipped and should be here tomorrow or thursday. Pretty good service actually.

I have got a lot of stuff from them and over all am quite happy with the service.

motorworks
06-08-2010, 06:56 PM
Hi Paula and welcome
all the best
eddie
(motorworks)