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View Full Version : OMG! Actual quality tools at Lowe's?



wierdscience
06-12-2010, 10:45 PM
What's the world coming to?I was strolling through the local Lowe's picking up some EMT when something caught my eye.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/wierdscience/DSCF0001-3.jpg

Actual Knipex pump pliers,made in Germany,for $22.I had been looking for a new pair and wanted some that were compact,but strong.These fit those requirements nicely.

Also spotted a General Tool IR thermometer for $40 and realised I'd better leave before I was broke:D

Fasttrack
06-12-2010, 11:20 PM
Hmm ... Knipex must have gone down hill in quality ;) :D

D_Harris
06-12-2010, 11:22 PM
Hmm ... Knipex must have gone down hill in quality ;) :D

Or the shipments got mixed up. :D

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Arthur.Marks
06-12-2010, 11:56 PM
I swear to god...
After reading the many confirmations that even quality companies will produce a sub-par product for the big-box stores with nearly identical product numbers as their standard, quality offering...

I don't trust anything to be what you think it is in any big-box store. That doesn't mean I don't own plenty of hand tools from such, though :) Gotta be honest.

wierdscience
06-13-2010, 12:02 AM
Trsut me these are the real deal,I "tested" them before buying:D

oldtiffie
06-13-2010, 12:35 AM
I think that some might be quite surprised at how big Germany's exports are worth, how good its products are, how well it does in exporting and what a great manufacturing base it has.

Germany seems to have rolled its sleeves up and got its hands dirty and made its manufacturing what it is through sheer hard and very good work - without complaining about any other country - China and Asia etc. included.

Perhaps the US ecomomy and manufacturing base could do worse than taking a leaf out of Germany's book/s.

squirrel
06-13-2010, 12:41 AM
I don't know how strict Germany is but in the USA if 51% of the value is made in the USA you can say it is made in USA. After seeing alot of companies pull fast ones I don't trust them unless the tool is actually marked USA or Germany. Some think they are slick >>>> printed in USA then made in India is hidden some where else on the package.

bobw53
06-13-2010, 01:55 AM
I don't know how strict Germany is but in the USA if 51% of the value is made in the USA you can say it is made in USA. After seeing alot of companies pull fast ones I don't trust them unless the tool is actually marked USA or Germany. Some think they are slick >>>> printed in USA then made in India is hidden some where else on the package.


Kind of like Irwin sawblades. Irwin, that is owned by Newall Rubbermaid and also owns Lenox, and there was (and may still be) a big Irwin banner on the side of American Saw (where Lenox blades come from).

Big letters Made in USA, and in little letters 'made in USA from global components'. Its a fricken bandsaw blade, how many components are there? I'm guessing ONE, and a weld.

Do you really think the Lenox blades are coming off a different roll of stock than the Irwin blades. They won't answer my e-mails, and their tech line never ever picks up.

These are also the same people that own Vise Grip and shoveled it over seas to save half a penny.

What do you expect from a company that makes trash cans.

Your Old Dog
06-13-2010, 07:54 AM
There will likely be a recall on them. Note that the handle covering is the old standard normal thickness. Now a days most handled tools have 5" thick chinese rubber on them to make them look more powerful. Two pair of pliers in your tool drawer and it's full. Wait until they start using telephone poles for screwdriver handles.

wierdscience
06-13-2010, 08:22 AM
I think that some might be quite surprised at how big Germany's exports are worth, how good its products are, how well it does in exporting and what a great manufacturing base it has.

Germany seems to have rolled its sleeves up and got its hands dirty and made its manufacturing what it is through sheer hard and very good work - without complaining about any other country - China and Asia etc. included.

Perhaps the US ecomomy and manufacturing base could do worse than taking a leaf out of Germany's book/s.

I don't know about that,very rarely do we see any German products on the shelves here.That's one reason it surprised me.

My boss once took his wife on a vacation in Switzerland,he being a tool addict as well sought out and found the Swiss equivalent of a mom and pop hardware store to see what they were like.

The only US made tools he noticed on the shelves there were Vise-Grip pliers,which said something about Vice Grips at the time.

Fast forward Vice-Grip finds itself moved to China,the quality has dropped,they no longer lock positively like they used to and the jaws are prone to falling out yet they now cost more after the move.

Now I'm not knocking the Chinese,they have the ability to produce a good product,I am knocking Vise-Grip aka Irwin tool for reducing a good tool to a mediocre one.

I wrote a letter to Irwin and asked them if since they had built they're business for years by having that little American flag right on the front of they're product packs would they now proudly display the Chinese flag as well? I never got a response.

airsmith282
06-13-2010, 08:46 AM
well when it comes to vice grips i like my pertersons, Vise-Grip Irwin are far bettter then mastercraft ones that can even hold or grip anything other then a lawn mower handel..

the germans make some good stuff as do the russians, and the chinese are also making some very nice stuff, to..

to me tool quaility is importante, i do have to agree how ever that most all tool companys put out good sutff and junk stuff that just looks good, how fooled i was when i bout my 5 peice vice grip set from mastercraft, you cant even give me craftsman tools for free i wont use them anymore total garbadge there..

stanley has come along way in the tool making industry and i have now 2 of there socket sets and am impressed as hell with them , even there screw drivers are great,


i also like my herbrand gray and the snap on stuff i have but the stanely get used more often these days ,,

i have also been impressed with pitbull tools as well as powerbuilt they also seem really good,

most my air tools are CH but i have also started buying somona and they are alot less money but the quailty is excellent ,

squirrel
06-13-2010, 11:17 AM
I was at an Irwin plant auction after they lost in court!! Most of the retailers are the greedy ones, for example we purchase an item direct from the manufacture in China and with shipping it costs $16 USD well, this gets better. MSC sells the same item with the SPI brand on it for $129 who is greedy and stabbing us in the back. Another big joke is Kennametal, all I bought for years was Kennametal this and that. A couple of years ago I bought new cat 40's and the box said made in India!!!!!!!!!!!! I PAID TOP DOLLAR, USA MADE PRICE FOR THEM. Since then we no longer buy anything Kennametal. Royal pulled the same crap, I was very excited to pick up Royal as a supplier until our initial purchase arrived, the collets we just paid TOP DOLLAR, USA MADE PRICE FOR were marked India. Guess what, it all went back to Royal and we have not even considered ordering from them. You might as well buy from Harbor Freight and Shars and save the money because it appears like it all comes from the same places.

JoeFin
06-13-2010, 11:29 AM
Do you really think the Lenox blades are coming off a different roll of stock than the Irwin blades. They won't answer my e-mails, and their tech line never ever picks up.

I got 1 word for you - Morse

I've had the same problem trying to find quality cutting blades. Even some of the smaller Starrett blades are of Chinese origin. But so far not Morse


In the years since World War II, Morse has operated under the ownership of a number of companies, including Gulf+Western. The current owners, a group of American investors, purchased the company from a Scottish manufacturing concern, and are committed to upholding the Morse reputation for high-quality, American-made cutting tools.

http://www.morsecuttingtools.com/cgi/CGPTABOUT?PAMENU=7_1

Morse even allows you to buy directly from them now

http://www.morsecuttingtools.com/cgi/CGPTLMSC?PAMENU=5_1

IdahoJim
06-13-2010, 11:38 AM
Hmm ... Knipex must have gone down hill in quality ;) :D

Could be, but I'm betting the low price is a result of the collapse of the Euro. That decline is definitely helping European exports.
Jim

Dr Stan
06-13-2010, 11:50 AM
I wrote a letter to Irwin and asked them if since they had built they're business for years by having that little American flag right on the front of they're product packs would they now proudly display the Chinese flag as well? I never got a response.


Good for you. I managed to buy one of the Vice Grip "Toolbox" multi-tools before Rubbermaid shut down the Dewit NE facilities. The Chinese knock offs with the VG logo are not even close to the same tool.

I too noticed the Knipex tools at Lowes and made a mental note for future purchases.

lazlo
06-13-2010, 12:14 PM
I managed to buy one of the Vice Grip "Toolbox" multi-tools before Rubbermaid shut down the Dewit NE facilities. The Chinese knock offs with the VG logo are not even close to the same tool.

Ironically, Walmart famously forced Rubbermaid out of business when they were forced to raise prices because the spot-market price of their main plasticizer skyrocketed. The Newell group, who also owns Irwin, bought the remnants of Rubbermaid and outsourced the whole company to mainland China.

Liger Zero
06-13-2010, 12:27 PM
Ironically, Walmart famously forced Rubbermaid out of business when they were forced to raise prices because the spot-market price of their main plasticizer skyrocketed. The Newell group, who also owns Irwin, bouWondermark (http://wondermark.com/) ght the remnants of Rubbermaid and outsourced the whole company to mainland China.

Closed down a plant here in New York. Big news. Nothing the state did could convince them to stay... it was almost as bad as the Taylor Instrument incident here in Rochester or the Carrier bull**** over in Syracuse proper. These exces honestly don't CARE about the communities they impact. No matter what you offer them they are set on pulling out of America and giving technology and information to a communist state that has missiles aimed at us and a standing army bigger than our entire population.

Stupid f*uckers, they should be rounded up and tried as enemy-of-the-state if not outright treason.

gwilson
06-13-2010, 12:59 PM
Problem is,THE ONLY WAY to keep them from attacking us is to be their main customer,and have lots of economic ties. We are WAY seriously in debt to them,too. If they demanded payment right now,we could not do it.

I think eventually they will turn into a capatalistic state. Some Englishman who lived in China returned to England. After being back in England for a while,he said England was more communist than China!!

Liger Zero
06-13-2010, 01:03 PM
Problem is,THE ONLY WAY to keep them from attacking us is to be their main customer,and have lots of economic ties. We are WAY seriously in debt to them,too. If they demanded payment right now,we could not do it.


Ah but we could nuke them. Not the ideal solution but it would remind them who exactly #1 is and it is NOT them. :D



(for the record I do not advocate strategic level nuclear bombardment as a means to settle international economic imbalances.)

Dr Stan
06-13-2010, 01:04 PM
Closed down a plant here in New York. Big news. Nothing the state did could convince them to stay... it was almost as bad as the Taylor Instrument incident here in Rochester or the Carrier bull**** over in Syracuse proper. These exces honestly don't CARE about the communities they impact. No matter what you offer them they are set on pulling out of America and giving technology and information to a communist state that has missiles aimed at us and a standing army bigger than our entire population.

Stupid f*uckers, they should be rounded up and tried as enemy-of-the-state if not outright treason.

You're correct. Corps want to be treated like people as per the Supreme Court ruling, but when it come to being responsible corporate citizens they turn their backs on the very people who helped them become successful, their employees and the other stakeholders in the community.

You're also on target as it is the execs who make these decisions. The prevailing attitude is summed up with IBGYBG (I'll Be Gone You'll Be Gone) and will not have to face the consequences.

tdkkart
06-13-2010, 01:16 PM
What's the world coming to?I was strolling through the local Lowe's picking up some EMT when something caught my eye.
Actual Knipex pump pliers,made in Germany,for $22.I had been looking for a new pair and wanted some that were compact,but strong.These fit those requirements nicely.
Also spotted a General Tool IR thermometer for $40 and realised I'd better leave before I was broke:D


My local Lowes store flies an American flag in the parking lot, yet the front door says "Entrada" and all the signage inside is repeated in Spanish.
This store is in Iowa.

Until they correct this oversite I will not set foot in their store, which I have informed them of more than once.

Deja Vu
06-13-2010, 01:46 PM
I'll buy anything from anywhere in the world. I will communicate with anyone from anywhere in the world.
I will not blame "the people" of any country for actions taken against another.
I will support the global economy as well as the "local" economy.
I WILL enter a store regardless of what flag, language, ethnicity is featured.

I will NOT be so embedded in nationalism. I am in the same boat as all nations..

China does this.... America does that.....Russia did this.... BP did that....Iran is doing this.........Really?
I thought collective individuals do it!

Lastly(for now), I won't generalize.

Bill736
06-13-2010, 01:53 PM
Speaking of imported pliers, I remember back in the late 1950s or early 1960s when Japanese tools sold in the US were still just a joke. My dad and I were in a hardware store, and he picked up a pair of Japanese pliers and squeezed the handles hard. The pliers broke in half. He appologized to the lady clerk, and offered to pay for them. She didn't want payment, and just took the whole pile of Japanese pliers back into the storage room.
Things have, of course, changed. My lady friend just bought two wrist watches from Avon. On the back, it proudly states " Stainless back, movement made in Japan". My impression was that nowdays, "made in Japan" is bragging.

Deja Vu
06-13-2010, 01:58 PM
Speaking of imported pliers, I remember back in the late 1950s or early 1960s when Japanese tools sold in the US were still just a joke. My dad and I were in a hardware store, and he picked up a pair of Japanese pliers and squeezed the handles hard. The pliers broke in half. He appologized to the lady clerk, and offered to pay for them. She didn't want payment, and just took the whole pile of Japanese pliers back into the storage room.
Things have, of course, changed. My lady friend just bought two wrist watches from Avon. On the back, it proudly states " Stainless back, movement made in Japan". My impression was that nowdays, "made in Japan" is bragging.

Everything in/on your property is "imported"...unless you grew it, mined it, or created it.

wierdscience
06-13-2010, 07:55 PM
Good for you. I managed to buy one of the Vice Grip "Toolbox" multi-tools before Rubbermaid shut down the Dewit NE facilities. The Chinese knock offs with the VG logo are not even close to the same tool.

I too noticed the Knipex tools at Lowes and made a mental note for future purchases.

Yup,I have been raiding the small mom&pop hardware stores for they're remaining stocks of US made VG's.

I figure that is one law I would like to see.Having the MFG or seller openly display the country of origin right on the front of the package in plain sight.

Hell it's getting difficult to see where the food we buy comes from now.

I would also like catalog outfits like MSC to do the same in they're catalogs.I spent 30 minutes on the phone with MSC one day while the order taker looked for the CoO on the chain come-alongs they sell.

Dr Stan
06-13-2010, 08:42 PM
I would also like catalog outfits like MSC to do the same in they're catalogs.I spent 30 minutes on the phone with MSC one day while the order taker looked for the CoO on the chain come-alongs they sell.

Amen. BTW, that's one reason I prefer Travers Tool. They can give you answers much faster than MSC and it's subsidiaries.

wooleybooger
06-13-2010, 09:48 PM
a coporate execs #1 job is to increase dividends to share holders. if you have an employer matched 401k, if you let a stock broker handle your investments then your the reason companies go overseas for bigger profits. its a profit driven world. see where your money is,you may be the profiteer.

squirrel
06-13-2010, 10:53 PM
The local Menard's seem to have more USA made stuff than any of their competition. Just bought some USA made shelving the other day and a USA made Akro Mill plastic cabinet with drawers. They also have alot of USA made sockets and wrenches.

Dr Stan
06-13-2010, 11:42 PM
a coporate execs #1 job is to increase dividends to share holders.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. That was true up until the 1970's when things started to change. The way the execs are paid based on the increase in value of the stock changed all that. Now the #1 job of the execs is to look out for #1 and forget everyone else.

Dr Stan
06-13-2010, 11:44 PM
The local Menard's seem to have more USA made stuff than any of their competition. Just bought some USA made shelving the other day and a USA made Akro Mill plastic cabinet with drawers. They also have alot of USA made sockets and wrenches.

When ever I go to Indiana I make sure I visit Menard's. Of all the big box stores it is my favorite.

lazlo
06-14-2010, 12:22 AM
a coporate execs #1 job is to increase dividends to share holders.

A corporate exec is paid bonuses according to how much he/she "saves" the company in operating expenses. Save the company $X million in operating overhead by shipping the factory to China, and you get a $Y million dollar bonus.

I have no problem with the overall Quid Pro Quo, my issue is that the executive bonuses are often more than the corporate savings.

During the infamous American Airlines pilot's union dispute over pay, the CEO was paid more in bonuses than the amount he nickeled the pilots down in salary. That's awfully ironic.

By the way, I don't know how many here realize, but colossal executive bonuses/salaries are a uniquely American institution.

The BP CEO, Tony Hayward, is paid $4.6 Million/year.
The Exxon CEO, Rex Tillerson, is paid $27 Million/year.

http://people.forbes.com/profile/rex-w-tillerson/31576
http://people.forbes.com/profile/a-b-tony-hayward/13022

Abner
06-14-2010, 09:32 AM
not machinery but ----
Costco -"post" (kirkland) raisin bran - Wife tried it and says no way not the same.
WTF - Do they think we won't notice?

Makes me question the tool above - Is it the real McCoy?

the world may never know.

lazlo
06-14-2010, 09:44 AM
Costco -"post" (kirkland) raisin bran - Wife tried it and says no way not the same.
WTF - Do they think we won't notice?

I've noticed that as well -- "they" make cheap substitutes for Costco. The big screen TV's are similarly cost engineered, and have weird Costco-specific part numbers, so retailers don't have to price match them. The "Outlet Malls" are especially bad -- they make cheaper product lines specifically for the outlet malls, which is why you can't return a Polo, or Coach, or Tumi, ... product from the outlet mall to a retail store.

Similarly, Lowes sells cheap Lincoln welders that look an aweful lot like "real" Lincoln welders, but they're made in China, have plastic parts, fixed taps...


Makes me question the tool above - Is it the real McCoy?

I have a bunch of Knipex tools (superb quality -- do the Germans make any crappy tools? :) ) -- I'm going to swing by...

bob_s
06-14-2010, 02:15 PM
By the way, I don't know how many here realize, but colossal executive bonuses/salaries are a uniquely American institution.

The BP CEO, Tony Hayward, is paid $4.6 Million/year.
The Exxon CEO, Rex Tillerson, is paid $27 Million/year.

http://people.forbes.com/profile/rex-w-tillerson/31576
http://people.forbes.com/profile/a-b-tony-hayward/13022

Yes, but isn't America, the country built on the greed motive?

Look at every avenue of endeavour, be it sports, entertainment, real estate, business, government, environmental activism .....

J Tiers
06-14-2010, 08:33 PM
Yes, but isn't America, the country built on the greed motive?

Look at every avenue of endeavour, be it sports, entertainment, real estate, business, government, environmental activism .....

It used to be tempered with a responsibility as well.... for many, if not most. But, since all "absolutes" are now "old-fashioned", there are situations in which theft and murder are quite acceptable.... Business seems to be one of those.

That does not really represent a change in the worst representatives, but it does represent a spreading of the attitude to most instead of a few only.

nheng
06-14-2010, 08:52 PM
My favorite "Made in USA" example (NOT) is Johnson & Johnson. Just got several packs of those wooden sticks for picking your teeth from the dentist's office. They are now made in China, made of and treated with God knows what. Still haven't got around to using their toll free number to vent but will shortly. What are they thinking ?????

Same brand, I think this one was gauze (SP??) bandage ...

"MADE IN CHINA, STERILIZED IN USA"

If that doesn't speak volumes, I don't know what does.

Den