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Black_Moons
06-15-2010, 02:31 PM
Ok, slightly misleading title but whatever.
Air tools that blow. Such as:

The air body saw. Maybe its that I got the $50 one, but this thing can't seem to cut anything, blade wears out after a few inchs of 18awg mild steel, seems to just rattle everything much more then cut it, and often the blade gets stuck in the material (Spring loaded return, only single acting air cylinder)
doesnt seem great on plastics or anything else iv tryed it on either (Unless you like those cuts where the plastic fuses in the cut behind the blade)

The cutoff tool. runs 2 or 3" cutoff disks at 20,000~ rpm. Overall seems like an OK tool, Really just a die grinder with a shield on it? I think again mine is rather cheap and sometimes won't start up till I rotate the disk a little and apply air again (just to get it out of the 'stall' position, I don't spin it up by hand or anything, just rotate it a little) Come to think of it, my cheap die grinder never requires that.
But.. often seems to stall out. Just.. not enough power unless you use really light feed pressure while cutting.

The air rachet. What a wonderful idea. What a poor implimentation. So bulky it rarely fits anywhere the impact gun would'nt, has only what, 50lbs torque max so you still have to torque the bolt manual afterwards, and only 200rpms?? I can use a hand rachet that fast praticaly. Im pertty sure I usally hand thread (unrusted) bolts in/out faster then 200rpm just using my fingers and no tool at all. Could be good for driving large screws in a tight area in a pinch..(Right angle driver) Except every time I try to do that, after the adapators needed it seems the rachet just rattles away insted of rotating properly.

Am I doing something wrong with these tools, or do they all just blow?

MotorradMike
06-15-2010, 02:58 PM
Hey man:

You gotta spend some real money on your tools!

Melt all the cheap ones you have now and cast them into a well plug for BP.

chipmaker4130
06-15-2010, 03:00 PM
They're just junk. The performance, not to mention the reduced air consumption of good quality pneumatic tools is SO much better.

oldbikerdude37
06-15-2010, 03:03 PM
My friend buys Snap On air tools and they run realy good.

Highpower
06-15-2010, 03:16 PM
I've got a Snap-On air ratchet that will snap the heads off of small bolts if you aren't careful with it. Likewise, my Ingersoll-Rand 3/4" impact gun will twist the wheel studs right off an axle if you happen to have it running in the wrong direction. :eek: :o

MuellerNick
06-15-2010, 03:16 PM
Am I doing something wrong with these tools, or do they all just blow?

So they don't blow, they suck. Right?


Nick

Deja Vu
06-15-2010, 03:52 PM
You gotta have higher air pressure and volume. Many shops don't have the volume/pressure to run these. I got a couple you spoke of on the cheap from various garage sales. I've tested them on compressors that put out and it's night and day.
Here at home, I never use them...except the B&D impact wrench. That works good .

RKW
06-15-2010, 03:58 PM
You don't think it is a simple as just SCFM do you? Those little guys do need lots of volume for continuous duty.

Bill Pace
06-15-2010, 04:10 PM
I agree on questioning the air fllow - or lack of...

I have some 10-12 air tools, all from -- gasp! -- Harbor Freight! and they all perform way better than the 10 to 30 dollars I paid for them. I have 4 of the little 10-15$ die grinders and run the tail off them - its just amazing for that money. I do run them on 120lbs pressure though...

Liger Zero
06-15-2010, 04:23 PM
More SCFM and more PSI. ALL of my air-tools are Tractor Supply brands.

oldbikerdude37
06-15-2010, 04:27 PM
You don't think it is a simple as just SCFM do you? Those little guys do need lots of volume for continuous duty.

He just might need to take some breaks to let the compresser catch up, plus dont dally with the tool cutting air.
Also those little 1/4" air lines like the coil type dont let much air pass.

Black_Moons
06-15-2010, 05:19 PM
Nah, its not SCFM or pressure.

First off, I have a 5hp compressor that outputs 140psi max, 18CFM. More then enough to run small sandblasters and air drills continiously.
I also have a 2hp 90psi max compressor, and it works fine for most tools as long as I watch the pressure and don't overuse the hungrey tools.

Second, I have no 1/4" air hoses in my shop, except some coily ones I sometimes use for my paint sprayer and never anything more air hungrey. Iv monitored pressure at the tool, its not the problem, usally 80psi+ and these tools still don't proform worth a damn.

All my other air tools kick serious ass. Wayyy more then they should for what iv paid for them. Die grinder, air nibbler, impact gun, paint sprayers, Air over hydrolic jack, Flanger/hole punch, sheet metal cutter, mini belt sander, all work wonderfuly, Lots of air tool oil before every use too.

Its just these 3 tools that just seem to suck, and im wondering if its the tool itself for being so cheap (My other cheap tools work WAYYYYYYY better), Or if its just the fact these tools are not very usable even when they are expensive ones, Or if im indeed using them wrong.

Like when do you really use an air rachet over other tools?

When do you really use a air body saw over other tools? (And what materials/thicknesses/blades?)

And when are those 3" cutoff tools any better then a 4 1/2" (electric) angle grinder? (For that matter, is there any point in an air 4 1/2" angle grinder if you have/love your expensive electric?)
Iv only ever managed to really want to use it once, and it was sad how underpowered it was. was cutting the copper ring off some pex (Err, well, whatever came before pex) and trying not to score the pex fiting itself (well.. scored it a little... man that plastic STUNK)

davidh
06-15-2010, 08:23 PM
i've been fixing and selling air tools for more than 25yrs. i have a die grinder thats that old that i paid 19bucks for back then. i use it quite often and have never even put vanes in it.. . i have 125 psi at my bench from a 1-1/4" copper line that runs 25 feet from my compressor. from there i have a couple of water traps, and then 3/8 coil hoses that drop from the ceiling. i oil all my air tools at the END of the day if i;ve used them. . . that way, any water will be sucked up by the tool oil. i have been doing this forever. i also have another 6 or 7 die grinders, some larger than others for dedicated tooling. a largeish florida pheumatic plastic bodied one for cut off wheels, and i use .062 cut offs, 4" diameter and they are GOOD "camel" discs. this tool has been doing this for 25 years too, and i have re-vaned it once. i threw away my hacksaw years ago.

others also have lasted a long time and are of good quality. moisture in your lines will cause tools to run like crap. and you must have 90psi AT THE INLET OF THE TOOL WHEN ITS RUNNING to get max effecency from it. more is better but probably not much over 125 psi or it will cause you to over load yout tool and it will not last as long.

my best "friend" is water, and my second best "friend" is under volumn'd air supplies. dirty air from a compressor thats sucking oil from its lube supply is a good buddy too. (keep those inlet air filters clean) helps me make a dang decent living. . . . . .

i often bring my gage set up to my customers shops and show them their volumn problems. i put the gage rite at the inlet of their tool. oh yea, they look and are impressed and know how to fix it but they would prefer to pay me to rebuild or repair their broken tools or sell them new ones. . . gotta love it.

however, i have good tools. the more expensive of the chicago pneumatic, ingersoll rand auto product and even a way over priced but a very good tool, damn nice snap on angle die grinder to name a couple. . there are "top cat" die grinders and angle grinders, and "henry air tools" that will nearly break your hand from the torque to name of few, but they are costly. . .origionally. last a long time tho. . . .

where was i . . . ?

i have not seen a air jackoff saw that works for crap. big ones like a sawzall but not the little ones. sold one once and it came back for the reasons you describe.

air ratchets have their place but i prefer a butterfly impact or a pistol grip inpact. they are much faster than a ratchet. then again, i use a 1/4" air ratchet for my center bolt on my bridgeport, aired down to about 35psi. i have also found a impacting 1/4" hex drive tool to be real handy for allen and torq;s bolts. . . .if you have the hexx tools for it, but thats my job. . . other have their favorites too.

i think thats enuf rambling from this old guy. . . . hope it provided some insight. . . . .
davidh

madman
06-15-2010, 08:38 PM
I place 2 drops of Automatic Transmission Fluid in any of my air tools prior to use. They are all different types Mac Snap on and chinese brands. I have zero problems with them. Lubricating a air tool prior to use is a Prerequisite PERIOD. Makes a big Difference indeed. Good Luck.

Black_Moons
06-16-2010, 12:04 AM
I know about air tool basics, oily/dirty/etc air. Im asking mainly if these perticular tools are just poorly designed or if im using them wrong or if they just have perticular applications they shine at that im not seeing. For the record all my other air tools work wonderfuly, never a problem, just these 3 seem to not be worth the $50 I paid for the rachet/body saw each, and $20 I paid for the cutoff tool.

davidh at least confirmed that air body saws are worthless little buzzboxes, making his post the best so far...

Some people seem to be indicating that my 3" cutoff might just be a pos and that high end ones have decent torque.. but nothing really clear.

Not much mention if air rachets are any good, Except insted of a butterfly for a power drawbar.

Arcane
06-16-2010, 03:23 AM
Air ratchets aren't too bad if you don't have decent room to swing a ratchet handle and it's really difficult to reach the nut or bolt to run it up by hand. The good thing about them is you will never ever strip a nut or bolt with one of them! :D

EVguru
06-16-2010, 05:49 AM
I've a small selection of air tools that all run hapily from my FIAC 14CFM (displacement) 3hp compressor.

The SIP 1/2 drive impact gun is the best known name and gets most use.

The blast cabinet works quite well with an appropriately sized gun, but I'm adding an eductor at the base of the hopper to improve the feed and improve efficiency. The compressor runs almost continuosly, but does just keep up.

The air body saw is a pro-am or am-tech brand and was bought by a friend when he was borrowing my facilities to work on his X1/9. I use ordinary hacksaw blades either full length or cut down and ground to shape and it's brilliant for its intended job making distortion free cuts in thin steel, like cutting the bases out of motorcycle tanks for dent removal.

I've got a 1/2" drive air ratchet that came from ALDI for about a tenner complete with a set of sockets. It works ok, but I don't find I need it very often.

There's a Clarke die grinder that is a bit lacking in torque and is a bit of an air hog and a Bergen angle die grinder that seems much better.

saltmine
06-16-2010, 12:03 PM
Cheaper air tools are usually made to very loose tolerances, with poor quality materials. They require quite a bit of air volume and pressure, most are noisier than they should be.

I've bought and used air tools for almost 50 years. They are time savers. I only buy high quality air tools (of course, now that I'm retired, I don't buy any now) I have air wrenches that are 25 years old and still perform as well as they did when new.

I'm familiar with the "air saw" described. The guys who built it just copied the original design and don't know it runs way too fast (burns up the blades)
Hardware store drill presses and home shop band saws are the same. They all run too fast. But, they have to, because the air motor, or the electric motor that powers them is cheap and has to turn fast to generate any usable torque. The "air saw" is just an air powered reciprocating saw. Slow it down and the blades will last, but it will jam more frequently.
A better air motor would help a tool like this a lot. unfortunately, due to their cheap manufacturing techniques, upgrading the motor is impossible.

The other thing that makes the "air saw" almost useless is the fact that sheet metal has a tendency to spring back, and vibrate. And a saw blade moving at high speed will usually stick in one spot, and burn off the blade's teeth. I ran into this with a sheet metal "power nibbler". The thing was a quality tool, but I discovered it wouldn't cut worth beans. A friend watched me use it one day, and saw the problem immediately. Taking a block of wood and a "quick clamp" he anchored the piece of sheet metal to the bench. The "nibbler" instantly began cutting like a hot knife through butter. It just needed a "backup" to keep it from moving while cutting.

airsmith282
06-16-2010, 04:21 PM
you onnly need 90 psi on average for most airtools, but you do need some good cfm to make them work right for continues use, intermedit use is one thing but for continus you need more CFM also you have to look at how much cfm a too requires as well.

for example my CH 1/2 impact only need 4 cfm but perfers more, same as mt air ratche, my sand blaster wants 9 cfm but runs fine on 4.5 cfm but for short times only..

so more CFM more run time and more power longer to the tool more or less ..

saltmine
06-16-2010, 08:34 PM
When I was working in the County Fleet shop, we had a guy who "knew everything"....but he was under my management as an "oil changer" etc.
I needed a new air wrench (the old one had worn completely out). So, I bought an expensive Ingersol-Rand wrench. Mr. Know-it-all decided he'd buy one too. He was appalled when he discovered that I had connected it to "shop air" with no regulator or oiler. ("shop air" was 125psi)
He told me the instructions clearly stated the maximum operating pressure for the tool was 90psi, and I was going to ruin it with the excess pressure.
He, on the other hand, had gone and purchased a brand new regulator/oiler for his new toy, which he set precisely to deliver 90psi and no more.

Six months go by. My air wrench is "broken in" and performing very well. Mr. Know-it-all's is in the shop needing repairs. This goes on for a number of years, Mr. Know-it-all either needing to have his air wrench repaired or replaced at least eleven times...I still have mine.

Why? It seems Mr. Know-it-all didn't read the specifications of his new pressure regulator. at 90psi, the regulator was delivering aproximately 1/3 the CFM needed to run the air wrench, and going "full tilt" with the air wrench caused the regulated pressure to drop off to a nominal 45psi. The tool dealer told me running an air wrench at too low a psi or CFM causes it to hammer for an unusually long time...thus beating the hammer assembly to death. My wrench, even though it's over 20 years old is still performing quite well. I guess "shop air" didn't ruin it after all.

Black_Moons
06-16-2010, 10:01 PM
Hmm, Body saw copys running too fast makes a lot of sense, they just buzz away like a mad demon. It seemed like it would of made a MUCh better tool at 1/10th the speed.. I guess that requires some kinda dampener though

vpt
06-16-2010, 11:18 PM
I know most air tools say something like (max 90/120 psi) but they normally perform better with more pressure. Anyone running above 125psi?

saltmine
06-17-2010, 12:42 AM
When I worked at a Chevy dealer out on the "left coast" we had shop air at 175psi. Never had an air tool problem the whole time.

gmatov
06-17-2010, 01:05 AM
My HF panel saw works pretty damned good, for 14 bucks. Buzzes like hell, but it came with 6 blades, only using one, so far, and that one still has all its teeth and all sharp. Strokes per minute, I would have to go look at.

I have had an air and hydraulic repair business in my past. Biggest problem is not pressure, it is size of feed line.

Change your hoses and couplers to 3/8 or 1/2 inch from 1/4 and you will be amazed at the difference in operation.

You can NOT run a 3/4 impact with a 1/4 inch nipple, and expect it to work properly.

Cheers,

George

Willy
06-17-2010, 01:18 AM
Gotta go along with what George said.
I see most people using 1/4" nipples on everything. Look at just about any air tool in your shop and most have 3/8"-1/2" air inlets. That's what they were deigned for.
You wouldn't plug a 1 1/2 hp motor into a lamp cord, consider an airline an extension cord. You can't expect much power to be transmitted by an inadequate supply line, be-it hydraulic, electrical, or air. Pressure in the tank means nothing without being able to deliver volume. Use bigger hose and get rid of those tiny 1/4" restrictors.

oldtiffie
06-17-2010, 02:10 AM
Here is the OP:

Ok, slightly misleading title but whatever.
Air tools that blow. Such as:

The air body saw. Maybe its that I got the $50 one, but this thing can't seem to cut anything, blade wears out after a few inchs of 18awg mild steel, seems to just rattle everything much more then cut it, and often the blade gets stuck in the material (Spring loaded return, only single acting air cylinder)
doesnt seem great on plastics or anything else iv tryed it on either (Unless you like those cuts where the plastic fuses in the cut behind the blade)

The cutoff tool. runs 2 or 3" cutoff disks at 20,000~ rpm. Overall seems like an OK tool, Really just a die grinder with a shield on it? I think again mine is rather cheap and sometimes won't start up till I rotate the disk a little and apply air again (just to get it out of the 'stall' position, I don't spin it up by hand or anything, just rotate it a little) Come to think of it, my cheap die grinder never requires that.
But.. often seems to stall out. Just.. not enough power unless you use really light feed pressure while cutting.

The air rachet. What a wonderful idea. What a poor implimentation. So bulky it rarely fits anywhere the impact gun would'nt, has only what, 50lbs torque max so you still have to torque the bolt manual afterwards, and only 200rpms?? I can use a hand rachet that fast praticaly. Im pertty sure I usally hand thread (unrusted) bolts in/out faster then 200rpm just using my fingers and no tool at all. Could be good for driving large screws in a tight area in a pinch..(Right angle driver) Except every time I try to do that, after the adapators needed it seems the rachet just rattles away insted of rotating properly.

Am I doing something wrong with these tools, or do they all just blow?

Probably the most inefficient tools in the shop as regards energy actually at the tool would be air tools.

Having to run a compressor to run an air tool is using a lot of wattage to run a small wattage air tool.

I only use my 10 bar (145 psi) compressor for the plasma cutter, impact wrench ("rattle gun"?) and general "air-blast" cleaning and pumping up car tyres etc. I tossed out all my air-driven die-grinders, drills, angle grinders etc. and got new electric tools. Way better - plenty of power, constant speed, German-made "Bosch", "Metabo" etc. and never a problem. I do use air for the air-over hydraulic cylinder on my engine/shop hoist.

I have a mist oiler and filter at the need of the hose and connected to the tools so as to not get oil in the air lines.

I do agree as regards the need for 90psi under load (not just at static) at the tools mostly - and that can be after 20+psi line loss between the compressor regulator and the tool, so the compressor needs to keep 110+psi with sufficient volume/minute to keep the air up to the tools. Given that a lot of 7 bar (~115psi) compressors switch on at say 80psi and off at say 115psi - its a big ask to get them to keep up to a good tool on a continuous basis - plasma cutters and sand-blasting or spray-painting etc. very much included.

Its amazing the number of people in a home shop who have single phase power and then convert it to 3 phase to run a large compressor to run an air drill or grinder etc. that can be better done with a good single phase electric power tool.

Try running the pneumatic equivalent of these on a normal 115psi air-supply and see how your get on:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Hydraulics/Hyd-lift4.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Med_Speed_Spindles/Bosch_HS_grinder1.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Med_Speed_Spindles/Bosch_HS_Grinder2.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Med_Speed_Spindles/Metabo_drill3.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Med_Speed_Spindles/Metabo_drill2.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Med_Speed_Spindles/Metabo_drill1.jpg

Same with tapping heads - no air - all powered by the pedestal drill or the mill spindles - tons of power.

I NEVER use the air impact wrench to fully tighten nuts. I stop as soon as the nut stops spinning on and finish off either by hand or with a good torque wrench. I never have to use the impact wrench to undo "too tight" nuts either.

The initial or capital cost of an air tool may be low but its on-going costs can be pretty big.

BobWarfield
06-17-2010, 10:31 AM
Love my air tools and wouldn't be without them, Tiffie. I haven't had to heft a big ole electric drill like that in ages, and I don't miss it. BTW, to the extent I do need a hole far away from my shop air, I prefer the battery powered impact drivers. They're smaller and seem to do a better job for me.

A good air tool is light and fits in spaces the electric won't precisely because you located most of the motive power remotely. If you haven't had to break a bolt loose, you just haven't wrenched on an old enough car, LOL!

Air ratchets are great for setups at the mill. Swap a set of vise jaws using one lickety split. I use the small cutoff wheel tools, but I do keep two electric die grinders handy because they do have more power for really nasty fab and scaling jobs. One has an abrasive wheel and one has a wire wheel. The former is a Makita and the latter is a Harbor Freight. The HF does surprisingly well, but you can certainly see the difference in the Makita. I don't have a body saw because I have a full-sized Sawzall. I don't use the tool very often, but it does cut like butter when I have to drag it out.

Love the little air drills too. I have several. One right angle has a zero flute deburring tool almost permanently in the chuck. I run inch black pipe, half inch hoses and fittings, all from a big compressor at 100 psi. The air tools are all in a rack and a couple drops of oil goes in the air fitting when I pull one off the rack for the first time that day.

You can tell the diff in air tool quality between HF and a good name brand, but honestly, the diff ain't huge in a home shop. It's only worthwhile to me if I get a flea bay deal on the better tool or if it is a tool I want to really really use a lot. Or, if it is a gift, LOL. Never look a gift air tool in the mouth.

Cheers,

BW

vpt
06-17-2010, 10:31 AM
Here is the OP:


Probably the most inefficient tools in the shop as regards energy actually at the tool would be air tools.

Having to run a compressor to run an air tool is using a lot of wattage to run a small wattage air tool.

I only use my 10 bar (145 psi) compressor for the plasma cutter, impact wrench ("rattle gun"?) and general "air-blast" cleaning and pumping up car tyres etc. I tossed out all my air-driven die-grinders, drills, angle grinders etc. and got new electric tools. Way better - plenty of power, constant speed, German-made "Bosch", "Metabo" etc. and never a problem. I do use air for the air-over hydraulic cylinder on my engine/shop hoist.

I have a mist oiler and filter at the need of the hose and connected to the tools so as to not get oil in the air lines.

I do agree as regards the need for 90psi under load (not just at static) at the tools mostly - and that can be after 20+psi line loss between the compressor regulator and the tool, so the compressor needs to keep 110+psi with sufficient volume/minute to keep the air up to the tools. Given that a lot of 7 bar (~115psi) compressors switch on at say 80psi and off at say 115psi - its a big ask to get them to keep up to a good tool on a continuous basis - plasma cutters and sand-blasting or spray-painting etc. very much included.

Its amazing the number of people in a home shop who have single phase power and then convert it to 3 phase to run a large compressor to run an air drill or grinder etc. that can be better done with a good single phase electric power tool.

Try running the pneumatic equivalent of these on a normal 115psi air-supply and see how your get on:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Hydraulics/Hyd-lift4.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Med_Speed_Spindles/Bosch_HS_grinder1.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Med_Speed_Spindles/Bosch_HS_Grinder2.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Med_Speed_Spindles/Metabo_drill3.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Med_Speed_Spindles/Metabo_drill2.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Med_Speed_Spindles/Metabo_drill1.jpg

Same with tapping heads - no air - all powered by the pedestal drill or the mill spindles - tons of power.

I NEVER use the air impact wrench to fully tighten nuts. I stop as soon as the nut stops spinning on and finish off either by hand or with a good torque wrench. I never have to use the impact wrench to undo "too tight" nuts either.

The initial or capital cost of an air tool may be low but its on-going costs can be pretty big.




I agree with that. I got rid of most of my cordless tools because of the low power issue. I would rather haul out a generator to use a corded (full power all the time) tool rather than run back and forth for batteries all the time and put up with half the power a tool should be putting out.

Most of my work in the shop is automotive and I use an impact allot. I have a whole aray of air tools from drills to die grinders and never use them. They are loud, have no power, you have to wait for the compressor at times to catch up, the compressor is loud, you have to drag a big air hose around, etc.

I use all milwaukee electric tools and just love them! I would never get anything else.

Gravy
06-17-2010, 08:16 PM
I'm surprised that nobody has sprung to the defense of air ratchets. They are indispensable to an auto mechanic.

There are just a few things to understand: They aren't about torque - they are about speed. Also, a good one is enormously better than a cheap one.

You stick them down in that inaccessible spot that's surrounded by sharp edges. You use muscle power to break the fastener loose within the 14mm swing range. This only requires that you sacrifice 4mm of flesh. You then press the trigger, trying to modulate it accurately despite the blood making everything slippery and let the ratchet spin the fastener off. You pray that the ratchet doesn't have enough extra torque to hammer your hand up against the razor-sharp sheet metal edges and pointy screws that surround the fastener.

Despite the sales claims, extra torque isn't all that important. The big difference between a good one and a cheap one is control. Cheap ones are on/off. Good ones are as sensitive as a fine musical instrument or parts of the human body at the best times.

You pay for the difference in dollars or blood.

oldbikerdude37
06-17-2010, 08:21 PM
I know most air tools say something like (max 90/120 psi) but they normally perform better with more pressure. Anyone running above 125psi?


I run 150+ psi always, if the work load bogs it down I take a short break.

Gravy
06-17-2010, 08:27 PM
OTOH, I did have a 3/8" impact wrench frag in my hand at 125psi a few decades ago. No injury, but I've been a bit more circumspect since.

John Stevenson
06-17-2010, 08:30 PM
The only Black and Decker tool I have bought that didn't suck was a shop vac.....

MotorradMike
06-17-2010, 09:26 PM
I'm surprised that nobody has sprung to the defense of air ratchets. They are indispensable to an auto mechanic.

There are just a few things to understand: They aren't about torque - they are about speed. Also, a good one is enormously better than a cheap one.

You stick them down in that inaccessible spot that's surrounded by sharp edges. You use muscle power to break the fastener loose within the 14mm swing range. This only requires that you sacrifice 4mm of flesh. You then press the trigger, trying to modulate it accurately despite the blood making everything slippery and let the ratchet spin the fastener off. You pray that the ratchet doesn't have enough extra torque to hammer your hand up against the razor-sharp sheet metal edges and pointy screws that surround the fastener.

Despite the sales claims, extra torque isn't all that important. The big difference between a good one and a cheap one is control. Cheap ones are on/off. Good ones are as sensitive as a fine musical instrument or parts of the human body at the best times.

You pay for the difference in dollars or blood.

Right on Gravy:

I use mine seldom but there is a bolt in the Acura that would take a week to undo and back up without my air ratchet. No blood yet, I spill that mostly on tire changes.

MotorradMike
06-17-2010, 09:28 PM
The only Black and Decker tool I have bought that didn't suck was a shop vac.....

Ha Ha!!

Methinks you've bought the wrong ones.
Over here we have trouble with Cross and Blackwell tools.

Arcane
06-17-2010, 10:06 PM
I'm surprised that nobody has sprung to the defense of air ratchets..............


I said air ratchets aren't too bad if you don't have decent room to swing a ratchet handle and it's really difficult to reach the nut or bolt to run it up by hand...doesn't that count as coming to their defense? :confused:

vpt
06-17-2010, 10:44 PM
I run 150+ psi always, if the work load bogs it down I take a short break.



I would also like to know what compressors go over 125psi? I don't mind the rare (have to wait for the compressor to catch up) so I just have a small 30 gallon compressor. I don't remember seeing any 30 gallon compressors that do over 125psi.

I would like to have a 150psi+ 30 gallon compressor.

oldtiffie
06-17-2010, 10:57 PM
Try this:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Compressor/Compressor_1.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Compressor/Compressor_2.jpg

John Stevenson
06-18-2010, 03:28 AM
I have two identical Hydrovane 15 cu ft rotary compressors, one is on a tank, decent size and it also feeds into a redundant direct drive compressor at the side so feeds about 80 gallons.

That one which is my main one has been adjusted so it only runs at 100 psi which is enough for general shop work, blowing etc and the CNC [ tool changer ]
The reasoning behind this is it easier to run from low pressure to 100 then it is from 100 to 125 and the extra 25 pounds isn't worth it.

The second Hydrovane, which is tripod mounted, no tank but is plumbed into the main line, runs at 130 psi and is only called into play when I need a continuous supply of high pressure like air guns [ rarely ] or the power tapper which is often.

I could run the direct drive if needed but this got retired, when not very old, when I bought the CNC and need air late at night.
The direct drive one is unbelievably noisy and it was Ok when I only had to run it once or twice a day early on.
Because it's high up in the hay loft and that side of the building is very close to my neighbour I went out and bought the first Hydrovane as they are very quiet, being a rotary, you can stand at the side of one and have a normal conversation.

They can go up to 150 psi but you pay dearly for the privilege, in time to build up and obviously money.

.

Forestgnome
06-20-2010, 11:54 AM
It's just a cheap air tool problem. I learned to just grin and bear it, and fork out the money for the good stuff. Never been let down by Ingersoll Rand. My Craftsman impact wrench couldn't break loose any better than I could with a breaker bar. It was pathetic! And that was a new tool. Chinese junk.

davidh
06-20-2010, 05:59 PM
I would also like to know what compressors go over 125psi? I don't mind the rare (have to wait for the compressor to catch up) so I just have a small 30 gallon compressor. I don't remember seeing any 30 gallon compressors that do over 125psi.

I would like to have a 150psi+ 30 gallon compressor.

make one yourself. buy the two stage pump, the 5 hp motor and the tank. i have scrapped quite a few smaller tanks because the pumps were not practical to replace.