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View Full Version : The Old Dog was right about the Gulf and Green Power Push.



Your Old Dog
06-15-2010, 05:22 PM
Don't let a good disaster go to waste.

On this page (post #1547) and one other a few days ago, I said that BO was dragging his feet so as to make this spill even more disastrous then it is and to make many people more open to Green Power. Turns out they've just announced that BO will address the people tonoight at 8PM and will "push" the notion of Green Power. :mad:

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=41406&page=155

Tony Ennis
06-15-2010, 06:40 PM
It will come down to

1. pandering to his base
2. raising taxes to pay for it

In short, business as usual.

camdigger
06-15-2010, 06:48 PM
YOD

The greenies will have a field day with this.

Sadly, most of the rhetoric and hand waving is after the horse has already left the barn, or the dragon has been dragged from the ground. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNuIn-rW7v0&feature=related about 0.34 and every chorus therafter...

Carld
06-15-2010, 06:56 PM
Let the war begin. Greenies vs Real Life.

Liger Zero
06-15-2010, 06:58 PM
This will cost BO his job next cycle because no matter what he "does" it won't be enough for those who have lost everything.

If it were somehow possible for him to seize BP, turn it into cash and pass out gaylords (special size of box) of $500 bills it still won't be enough.

He has no real power to deal with the situation other than walk around and look for asses to kick.

MEANWHILE Congress will go on it's merry way and soon enough we will be drilling offshore again and in a decade this will happen again.

BillDaCatt
06-15-2010, 07:08 PM
OK I was certainly in the camp that believed Bush Jr. was complacent in his actions to prevent 9/11 and to minimize the damage from Katrina. However I never truly believed that he actually had a hand in causing either of those disasters. And it troubles me to think that anyone believes that our current president is purposefully stalling (and B.P. would be helping) in getting this oil well capped to push a green agenda. No tree hugging liberal is going to foul the environment on purpose. So either he is a liberal or he ain't. He can't be both!

Did it ever occur to you that the reason the well isn't capped and under control yet is because B.P. has not been able to get it capped and under control yet?

There was a similar oil well disaster, also in the Gulf of Mexico, that had many of the same problems that this on does. It is know as the Ixtoc oil spill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I_oil_spill) and happened in 1979. In that spill the oil continued to flow for three months after the first relief well was drilled.

Not everything is a conspiracy. The problem is simply that some things are hard to do. And unfortunately capping a deep-water oil well is one of them.

Heck, come to think of it, it took several months to put out all of the burning oil wells in Kuwait. And they were all on dry land where we could get to them.

aboard_epsilon
06-15-2010, 07:20 PM
May end up like the russian gas crater ..they never put out

http://www.vacationideas.me/asia/the-door-to-hell-burning-gas-crater-darvaza-turkmenistan/

All the best.markj

J Tiers
06-15-2010, 07:41 PM
I'm having trouble with understanding any of this conspiracy........ Geo. W. Obama, "the drone guy", is not exactly the one I'd expect to push a wild green agenda in just this way.....

The British public may believe that the Americans blew it up it to give them a black eye, and The default Afghan president may believe that the Americans attacked his tribal meeting.... And you may believe that the moon is 'counter-earth" with a population on the backside, But that don't make it true, folks....

The culprit is simply corporate greed, and lax enforcement, mostly the former, since the latter is the amount of enforcement YOU AMERICANS WANT, as expressed by the various Congresscritters.

billDaCatt has it right, and that's about all there is to it......

lazlo
06-15-2010, 08:09 PM
billDaCatt has it right, and that's about all there is to it......

Agreed - Bill's was a great non-partisan, realistic post.

Don't expect the spill to be shut down anytime soon. We're only 53 days into it, the relief wells won't even reach depth until August, and according to the various drilling experts, the chances of bisecting a 7" well at 18,000 feet on the first attempt is very slim. It will likely be well into the Fall before they cap it.

mochinist
06-15-2010, 08:34 PM
The old dog is clearly an idiot.

bob_s
06-15-2010, 08:35 PM
Well i do wish y'all well on getting Air Force 1 converted over to solar cells!

sansbury
06-15-2010, 08:52 PM
Not everything is a conspiracy. The problem is simply that some things are hard to do. And unfortunately capping a deep-water oil well is one of them.

Agreed. But:

1. Obama does not appear to have done a good job of managing the things he does have the power to manage, like getting booms to the scene and the construction of berms through the approval process.

2. This proves that the vast scale of the US federal bureaucracy is a huge problem in its own right. Neither Bush nor Obama likely expected that their terms would be defined in large part by 2nd/3rd-tier agencies like FEMA or MMS. There must be at least a hundred or more agencies of equal size tasked with overseeing some critical thing. If Obama set out to clean up even 10% of them, how much could he possibly get done in one or two terms? Meanwhile, he is seeking to create a HUGE new arm of government to add to the pile.

Evan says our technology is capable of causing problems it is unable to fix. The size of the system right now is arguably the biggest challenge of the bunch. All we're doing is scaling up the Peter Principle.

danlb
06-15-2010, 08:56 PM
Don't let a good disaster go to waste.

On this page (post #1547) and one other a few days ago, I said that BO was dragging his feet so as to make this spill even more disastrous then it is and to make many people more open to Green Power. Turns out they've just announced that BO will address the people tonoight at 8PM and will "push" the notion of Green Power. :mad:

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=41406&page=155


I like the way you think. By extension, if you can predict actions based on probabilities, then you can assign whatever motives you like.

Let me try!

I predict that YOD will post again in this forum. That's because he's a communist and hates America and little kids.

Lets see how accurate that technique is. :)

Dan (just having fun with a silly topic)

Your Old Dog
06-15-2010, 09:34 PM
I'm curious guys as to why only shutting off the flow counts for anything? Of course it's going to take time to do that. But why does this particular regime have to wait until all flow has stopped before trying to vacuum up just some of the oil?

And if any of you think for one moment that a Greenie wouldn't view this disaster as an opportunity to push their perceived lily white agenda then you are as much of an idiot as I'm touted as being. Geez, talk about naive :D To achieve a greater goal, anything is fair game in war such as trashing some coastline to enhance Green energy or sending soldier into unbeatable situation just so you don't tip your hand to the Germans that you have broken their code. It's done all the time .

I think BO ought to get some suckers out there. Big ones, ones that can suck up thousands of gallons of oil per hour.They don't have to recover every drop and stop the flow completely to help save the area. Just get started sucking up what you can and processing it. How many tankers does the US have that could be pressed into service?

And for the Leftist here, hang in there!Utopia is just around the corner. Free health care, free energy, free this and free that! Don't cash out Mochinst, we'll all be skating downhill soon and life will be great :D

DanLB, not sure where you sit. I only have the words you pen to interpret your message but your words seem to mean something other then what they say but then I don't want to judge harshly not knowing where your coming from.


........By extension, if you can predict actions based on probabilities, then you can assign whatever motives you like. That would be your "extension" right? I only state what to me is the only obvious reason I can think of to wantonly slow down or retard the feds response to this disaster. How damn long does it take to lift restrictions that would allow everyone to get to work? He's the President of our country and he can correct the situation with the stroke of a pen or the wave of his hand providing he doesn't knock his teleprompter over !!

1937 Chief
06-15-2010, 09:44 PM
I just listened to BO's speach it was hard but I listened to all of it. This is the second time I have heard him say this: The reason oil companies are drilling so deep is all the close to shore oil has already been pumped out. This is such a crock. It's the tree huggers that have pushed oil rigs so far out to sea. That is my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. Stan

Your Old Dog
06-15-2010, 09:59 PM
I just listened to BO's speach it was hard but I listened to all of it. This is the second time I have heard him say this: The reason oil companies are drilling so deep is all the close to shore oil has already been pumped out. This is such a crock. It's the tree huggers that have pushed oil rigs so far out to sea. That is my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. Stan

You're right. But it will be fun to see how many comment on this with "selective memories" .

As for BO removing restrictions some time back for off shore drilling it was for one reason only. It was immediately after the Free health care bill was rammed down our throats and he knew removing restrictions from drilling would appease to half the country who were upset over the Health Care Bill. That's not conspiracy theory, it's my speculation based on the only thing that makes sense to a politician. I know some won't believe it until they hear it from their popular news media.

bborr01
06-15-2010, 09:59 PM
YOD,

I'll say it again. TROUBLEMAKER.....

I have a feeling that if Barack Obama swam out and plugged the oil well with his bare hands, you would criticize him for grandstanding.

I'll bet if w were here still president, he would have this thing handled by now.

He would probably have had the British bombed.

Now go back to listening to rush limbaugh.

Brian

Your Old Dog
06-15-2010, 10:04 PM
YOD,

I'll say it again. TROUBLEMAKER.....

I have a feeling that if Barack Obama swam out and plugged the oil well with his bare hands, you would criticize him for grandstanding.

I'll bet if w were here still president, he would have this thing handled by now.

He would probably have had the British bombed.

Now go back to listening to rush limbaugh.

Brian

Brian, the men are talking here. Please contribute something to the conversation or join Mochinist over in the peanut gallery :D

bborr01
06-15-2010, 10:16 PM
Brian, the men are talking here. Please contribute something to the conversation or join Mochinist over in the peanut gallery :D

Typical right wing response.

By contributing, I assume you mean agreeing lock step with your point of view.

Do you honestly believe that conspiracy crap?

Alternative energy is not going away.

Get used to it.

Brian

lazlo
06-15-2010, 10:26 PM
1. Obama does not appear to have done a good job of managing the things he does have the power to manage, like getting booms to the scene and the construction of berms through the approval process.

I honestly don't know the story about the booms, but the berms were delayed because the administration insisted that BP pay for them, and they really didn't want to.

Look, the President isn't doing a fabulous job on the Gulf spill, but he's doing a hell of a lot better job than Bush did for Katrina. I mean, My God -- can you imagine Bush Jr. and Cheney, oil insiders, handling the worst environmental disaster in American history? And it's going to get much, much worse -- the wells are going to keeping spilling for at least two more months -- it's only been 57 days since it started...


Meanwhile, he is seeking to create a HUGE new arm of government to add to the pile.

The President is proposing that we split the MMS, so the people processing drilling rights are in a separate organization from the people collecting oil royalties. A HUGE conflict of interest which, when added to the hookers, superbowl tickets that the oil industry sent their way, is a guarantee of approving drilling rigs with broken safety equipment.

Your Old Dog
06-15-2010, 10:37 PM
Typical right wing response.

By contributing, I assume you mean agreeing lock step with your point of view.

Do you honestly believe that conspiracy crap?

Alternative energy is not going away.

Get used to it.

Brian

No Brian, don't project your faults onto me. I found all the responses that I did not agree with as civil with the exception of the one from Mochinist and the other from you. They were personal attacks in nature and offered nothing to the discussion at hand.

Now to answer your few points. No, there has been a lot of room in my life for people I disagree with and no lock-step is necessary. Conspiracy crap? You believe everything the media tells you? If so, that's lock-step. Do you take everything at face value? I believe that not all actions are purely random in nature and some called "cause and effect" is a major player in life. I don't want alternate energy to go away. I just don't want my government to force it to happen. When it is time for alternative energy forms to make sence it will happen naturally without the government stepping in with their poor track record of efficiency.

Brian, get used to this. I ain't going anywhere soon. If you don't like my post then suck it up, be a man and stay away from them. You can do it if you try. I have learned something here from the guys who posted before you but I haven't learned anything from your post as no contribution was made to the discussion. I think Lazlo and I are on opposite sides of the fence but I think we could sit down and have a stimulating conversation about these things in a restaurant without my having the relentless driving desire to throw him through the plate glass window, can't say the same about you.

lazlo
06-15-2010, 10:46 PM
This is the second time I have heard him say this: The reason oil companies are drilling so deep is all the close to shore oil has already been pumped out. This is such a crock. It's the tree huggers that have pushed oil rigs so far out to sea.

Right. :rolleyes: The Minerals Management Service issues way more shallow-water drilling permits than deep water permits. There are 5,000 wells operating in the Gulf, and only 591 of them are deepwater wells. It costs exponentially more to drill deepwater wells. Do the math Einstein.

It makes me wonder if we even deserve to have a democracy, when our citizens are too lazy to read the newspaper or watch the news (or God Forbid, watch a couple of news channels to get alternative viewpoints), or apply some high-school level analysis to the complex political, military, and financial issues that face our country.

It's far too easy to listen to carefully scripted talk-show propaganda on the radio...