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HAP
06-19-2010, 09:56 PM
Anyone use these? I plan to order one this week. Any particular points to note? Thanks in advance.

HAP

MickeyD
06-19-2010, 10:01 PM
I have an 8" Vertex (8" 3 jaw chuck). Works great but weighs about 150 pounds so moving it is a pain. Make sure that you get one that has a hollow spindle bore so that you can pass parts through and it will make it a lot more useful than a regular rotary table.

Gravy
06-19-2010, 10:07 PM
A Super Spacer is not necessarily a rotary table, and vice versa. My old Hartford Super Spacer does not have the worm drive of a rotary table. If you post specific details about what you are buying, you will get better advice.

HAP
06-19-2010, 10:22 PM
Sorry for not offerring something to go by.

Here is the link for the one I plan to purchase. Btw, how do you rotate your chuck without a worm drive?
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=953904&PMAKA=202-3030

MickeyD
06-19-2010, 11:13 PM
That is the one that I have. Give them a call and ask if it is still a made in Taiwan Vertex brand. Vertex is the Taiwan Yuasau clone and is normally much nicer than the Chinese or Indian crap versions. Since I don't have a manual machine anymore I have no idea what I am going to do with mine - the two new Okumas that I bought both have a 4th axis and I am really spoiled now. :D

Gravy
06-19-2010, 11:23 PM
Mickey, meet HAP. HAP, meet Mickey.

Why don't y'all talk about making a deal?

If it doesn't work out, you can have fun laughing at my next post attempting to explain some of the differences between a Super Spacer and a Rotary Table.

Gravy
06-19-2010, 11:24 PM
Btw, how do you rotate your chuck without a worm drive?

I push the release lever with one hand and rotate the table with the other. It locks in on the next notch.

(Disclaimer: I'm not a machinist. I don't play one on TV and I don't stay at Holiday Inns. I'm a mechanic and some kinda handyman/Mr. Fixit. If any of the real machinist types on the forum disagree with me, please assume that they are right and I am wrong.)

The original Hartford Super Spacer is all about quickly repeatable spacings. They are based on accurately notched spacing plates. The default "master" plate has 24 notches. The default "masking" plates have anywhere from 12 to 2 notches. A Google search on "Super Spacer Plates" or some such will explain far better than I can.

There are other combinations of master and masking plates. One of these days, I hope to find a stupid deal on a 30 notch master, so I can easily do 5 bolt hole circles.

If I need to do work that fall outside of the plate spacings, the table is equipped with a vernier scale. I wouldn't try to use it for any kind of accurate gear machining, but it should be good enough for any reasonable bolt circle.

If I understand at all, a Super Spacer is all about being quick and repeatable for common divisions. A rotary table is all about achieving any division you want, as long as you have all the time in the world and can accurately split vernier readings.

The Enco seems to be a combination of a Super Spacer and a rotary table. There may be some spin indexer genes there, too. It's probably a copy of something that Hartford or Yuasa made long after my antique/vintage Super Spacer was born.

HAP
06-19-2010, 11:27 PM
Mickey, meet HAP. HAP, meet Mickey.

Why don't y'all talk about making a deal?

If it doesn't work out, you can have fun laughing at my next post attempting to explain some of the differences between a Super Spacer and a Rotary Table.

Ok Gravy; I'll bite. Mickey, please PM me if you are interested in selling your Super Sapcer.
HAP

oldtiffie
06-19-2010, 11:53 PM
Anyone use these? I plan to order one this week. Any particular points to note? Thanks in advance.

HAP

HAP.

I have a "Vertex" 8" "Super Spacer" - great for quick indexing - just disengage the worm and wheel and use the indexing plates - very accurate. "Vertex" or "Phase 11" seem to be the best of them - all are "Chinese". I have a "Vertex" 6" rotary table as well and am very happy with both of them:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/HF-45%20Mill%20misc/HF45-5.jpg

Some of the details of the 8" "Super Spacer":

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Vertex_Rotab_hand-book/8Vertex_Rotab_Manual10.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Vertex_Rotab_hand-book/8Vertex_Rotab_Manual2.jpg

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=R004

A great tool - but heavy - 70Kg ~ 150# - so have it handy at mill table height or get some way of lifting it - an awkward lift can do a damage to the back.

914Wilhelm
06-20-2010, 04:58 AM
I have this vertex super spacer as well. It has a 90:1 worm gear. I also got the dividing plates for it which are not listed in the Enco catalog but are part # 505-6998 http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMIP?PMMANF=CT-1 I am using this trying to fumble my way through a 28 tooth metric module spline shaft which is yet another story......

JCHannum
06-20-2010, 09:19 AM
Unless you really have a need for the rapid indexing afforded by the spacing feature, a horizontal/vertical rotary table with index plates will serve all indexing functions at a much lower price. The money saved can be put toward a tailstock which is a useful adddition.

The reduced weight will also become more of a benefit as you age.

lazlo
06-20-2010, 12:24 PM
Unless you really have a need for the rapid indexing afforded by the spacing feature, a horizontal/vertical rotary table with index plates will serve all indexing functions at a much lower price. The money saved can be put toward a tailstock which is a useful adddition.

Agreed. I have the Yuasa SuperSpacer/Indexer that MickeyD's Chinese version was copied from, and I've never used the indexing feature, which seems mostly for production work.

You need a separate indexing plate for each division, by the way, so you need a lot of plates to go with it.

Glenn Wegman
06-20-2010, 12:58 PM
There may be a terminology problem here.

Apparently "Super Spacer" does not translate well in Chinese, sort of like "Flame Hardened", as it must mean something different in China. :rolleyes:

I have a couple of 8" Hartford "Super Spacers" and they appear to be what Vertex copied and sells as a "Simple Indexing Spacer" in the literature that Tiffie posted.

What Vertex is calling a "Super Spacer" I would catagorize as a vertical/horizotal rotary table with dividing plates.

lazlo
06-20-2010, 01:09 PM
What Vertex is calling a "Super Spacer" I would catagorize as a vertical/horizotal rotary table with dividing plates.

See the silver arm below the diving head wheel? That's the indexing arm. You disengage the worm wheel, and crank that arm, and it indexes around the hartford-style indexing plates inside the base.

At least, that's what my Yuasa does.

Glenn Wegman
06-20-2010, 01:18 PM
Well, that would be unquestionably the way to go as it covers all three in both horizontal and vertical, a spacing head, a rotary table, and a dividing head, if it can be used with dividing plates and a tailstock, which I don't see as an option...

Regardless of what it's called!

914Wilhelm
06-20-2010, 01:36 PM
Yes, does work with dividing plates and tailstock.

Just wanted to clarify my preceding post. This spacer comes with indexing plates which fit into the base and allow quick indexing to fractions of 24. I was also able to get dividing plates (see my prior post) that fit to the crank handle and allow the spacer to work like a traditional dividing head. I'll agree this is a heavy tool accessory, but what sold me on it was It had a large though hole. This came in handy when I wanted to redrill axles bolt patterns. I was able to bolt the spacer via a plate with the center hole hanging off the front of the mill. The shaft of the axles could then dangle verically down and out of the way.

Paul Alciatore
06-20-2010, 01:55 PM
What seems out of line to me is the price. I have a Yashua 10" RT that cost just over $300 with a tailstock and a simple spin indexer that I got free, but they are on sale for $40 - $60 all over the place.

The super indexer seems to combine the ability to use a worm to get any angle/# of divisions and a simple notched disk to get a few simple numbers quickly without using the worm.

My RT will allow me to do just about any number of divisions with the right plates or a little math. But it takes longer to set up and operate. This is just like the worm on the super indexer.

The spin indexer allows 360 divisions in a fast manner. That will allow 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15, 18, 20, 24, 30, 36, 40, 45, 60, 72, 90, 120, 180, and 360 divisions in a very fast manner, no worm involved. It is also a lot smaller than any RT or indexer and it has an amount of axial movement that can be helpful in some circumstances.

The two together would cost about half of the price of the super indexer you are talking about. And they probably provide more versatility.