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Too_Many_Tools
06-19-2010, 11:15 PM
Ever notice that Ebay "auctions" that use the Buy It Now ((LOL) option go on forever as "Buy It Never"s?

I used to spend thousands monthly on Ebay...now I don't spend a nickel there.

Anyone else?

TMT

KINGWELD
06-19-2010, 11:35 PM
TMT,What is so bad about E-bay?? I personally only buy and have gotten some good deals with no problems. If someone wants to sell at "Buy it now" so be it. Some stay listed forever because of sky high pricing.

Doc Nickel
06-19-2010, 11:49 PM
Actually, about the only thing I buy in eBay these days is "buy it now".

And if the price is too high, or I don't like the shipping, I don't buy it. Period, end of conversation.

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff listed on eBay, at such absurd prices one can only assume the seller is waiting for that panicked shop foreman with a machine down, that needs it fixed yesterday before lunchtime.

For example, I've been keeping my eye open for a vertical head for my Nichols horizontal. I don't really "need" it- I have two other vertical mills- but I'd like to have one just the same.

There's been three listed on eBay for over a year now, at a fully absurd $950 each. Bare, with no drive adapter. I paid $500 for the complete mill, delivered.

The last one I saw that actually sold, which I probably should have bid on, was a near-new head, with the rare drive adapter (which I once saw sell all by itself for $300) and the collet adapter and the drawbar and a full set of hard-to-find 4NS collets to fit it. The final bid price was, as I recall, a little over $600, and probably worth every penny.

A head with no drive adapter is completely useless, so those three bare heads are going to sit 'til the sun cools.

Doc.

Jim Caudill
06-20-2010, 12:01 AM
TMT, I used to do quite a bit of buying on ebay as well. Not so much anymore; everybody expects to get "top dollar", so the deals just aren't as good. Yes, many BIN items are priced at multiple times what they are worth. In Hardinge items, look at seller "Mikekandu" or others similar to him. It's not just with machinery either. When I needed a manual for my used Honda Reflex scooter, I saw one on ebay with a BIN of something like $79! I emailed the seller and asked if that was a typo, and was the correct price $7.90? No response from the seller, I think he has lowered his price to around $45; the kicker is that the original factory manual is available brand new from Helm for $16! Guess where I bought mine? Here's a link:
http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2.asp?session=0EE0F9070D014FFAB2AF9D975D4FD B64&Make=AHC&Model=SCOO&Year=2002&Category=2&class%5F2=AHC&mk=Honda+Motorcycle&yr=2002&md=Scooters&dt=Owner+Manuals&module=&from=result&Style=helm&Sku=31GV4730&itemtype=N

Here's the idiot seller on ebay, a year after I first saw it listed:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-Honda-NSS250-Owners-Manual-NSS-250-Reflex-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2c4e13740cQQitemZ19028 8458764QQptZMotorsQ5fManualsQ5fLiterature

Same stuff goes on all the time with Hardinge taper attachments (I bought one, like new, for around $500), Speed lathes (HSL) and other items. The fact that these items remain listed for literally years, says that people are not as dumb as these sellers think they are.

Michael Edwards
06-20-2010, 12:06 AM
I love EBAY. I probably have close to 10,000 lbs. of stuff in my garage that came from there, most of which is two shapers. My latest purchase is 10 new Starrett power hacksaw blades, about 23" long for $51 delivered. New blades for $5 apiece, have you priced new ones? I also love the old books, manuels, catalogs and brochures. I just got a neat brochure on a Kearney & Trecker Tri-D Milling Head, never heard of one before, nice piece of work. I like BIN and I have had good luck with the make offer. YMMV, but I will remain an Ebay-hoe. ;)

ME

Too_Many_Tools
06-20-2010, 12:26 AM
TMT,What is so bad about E-bay?? I personally only buy and have gotten some good deals with no problems. If someone wants to sell at "Buy it now" so be it. Some stay listed forever because of sky high pricing.

Like I said...I used to spend thousands a month for years on Ebay...now nothing.

That money is being spent elsewhere...at real auctions.

I suspect that I am not alone.

TMT

Jim Caudill
06-20-2010, 01:20 AM
I have made over 500 purchases myself (with 451 feedbacks), but my rate has slowed considerably. There are days when I don't even look at ebay, whereas I used to check my "searches" several times a day. I have made some pretty pricey purchases (including 4 Hardinge lathes and an F-350 dually pickup), so I consider myself fairly experienced and savvy at ebay.

Forrest Addy
06-20-2010, 01:25 AM
I don't know why eBay is sneered at. I've made 450 buys over the years and never had a bit of trouble.

There's probably one big rule which is never impulse buy. Otherwie determine your needs, conduct an orderly search, bid only what you can afford, ALWAYS bid at the last minute, and don't be afraid of letting something go if the bid price exceeds your resources. Auction items are like busses. If you don't catch one you want there will be another along later.

I use eBay primarily for consumables, carbide inserts, files, etc but occasionally for major tooling items like a Federal electronic differental level and several Starrett 199's when the price was unbelevably cheap, Mac computer stuff, VFD's, blacksmith tongs, electronic components, gadgets for Christmas presents. I found a 15" copper skillet that only needed clean-up and tinning. My neighbor saw it when I was done with it, had to have it, quadrupled my investment and started a collection based on it.

My sister used to costume for theater productions. She found all sorts of wierd materials, sewing fitments, costume jewelry, and other loot on eBay all for nickels on the dollar.

The key seems to be: shop wisely.

OTH my cop friends tell me most police departments keep a watch on on-line auctions. They are a great place to fence stolen goods.

wooleybooger
06-20-2010, 01:27 AM
some of us have to use e-bay simply for the convenience. i currently work 55+ hrs a week and dont have time to drive to a real auction that may or may not have what im looking for. live auctions,and e-bay, are often listed incorrectly,but with e-bay i havent wasted gas and time. BINs are good if the seller has no idea what he has,has priced it low,ands needs a quick buck. those BINs that have been there forever are just to suck in the noobies.

Farbmeister
06-20-2010, 07:42 AM
E-bay is a GREAT place for people with the knowledge to pick the wheat from the chaff.

I buy something at least one a week, simply because there is no other place to readily purchase vintage auto parts. Sure, your local speed shop may have what you want.. at vintage speed shop prices. And going to auctions of yard sales is 99% miss with the 1% hit. Many consumer items I can find cheaper off e-bay, but places like Shars has insane shipping. $5 endmill, $15 shipping. Why not bid on that $7 end mill, pay $3 shipping and be done with it? The *overall* cost is less. And no, I don't need 4-5 end mills.. mine last quite a long time.

"OTH my cop friends tell me most police departments keep a watch on on-line auctions. They are a great place to fence stolen goods."

I think they just want to look at e-bay on duty. How can they tell a stolen t.v from any other used t.v? Pawn shops are great places to fence stolen goods... Craigslist is a great place to fence stolen goods... e-bay? OK, there are some dumb criminals.. I'll grant you that. But what criminal caper has ended with 'then I found the stolen X on e-bay'?

JCHannum
06-20-2010, 08:06 AM
Apparently TMT feels the need to post an anti eBay post every so often to justify his existance.

Many of the listings on eBay are no longer auction items, but are eBay stores. They are Buy It Now, but do not expire in 7 days.

If you don't like eBay or chocolate ice cream, nobody is forcing you to use it or buy it.

Jim Doherty
06-20-2010, 08:11 AM
In years past I got some great deals on ebay but after I got burned by ebay and paypal for not reimbursing me on a not inexpensive purchase I was done with them. When you follow their rules, keep papertrails, do everything by the book and still get screwed, well they won't be getting any more of my money. I tell everyone I can about ebays crappy customer service.
We need to support small businesses not massive corporations with more money and clout than some countries.
Avoid ebay, look to antique stores or flea markets for items you want, besides the exercise will do you some good :D

Jim

JoeFin
06-20-2010, 10:18 AM
I used to spend thousands monthly on Ebay...now I don't spend a nickel there.

Anyone else?

TMT

Pretty much the same here - Haven't watched an auction there for more then 1 year ever since they brought in all the new rules that tuned it into the mess it is now

The whole thing has turned into an Eboner sanctioned scam. There are no rules other then Eboner gets paid.

A couple years ago I won a CNC milling machine in auction. IMMEDIATELY upon completion of the auction I send a message to the seller I would be over after work to bring him a check and see the machine. The "Cork Soaker" had the machine relisted for auction by 12: noon. When I notified Eboner the guy was attempting to sell the machine twice, and demanded they take down the listing or at least ask him WTF he was doing, Eboner refused to do any thing about it. Told me I should complete the transaction.

Guy was a Machinist turned drug addict out there ripping people off. I know - I went to his shop and met him and saw the machine. But when He refused to give me a receipt for the machine I refused to give him the cash

BTW: don't be surprised when the Eboner sellers who frequent this forum begin to chastise you for not "Singing the Praises" of "What a Great Deal Eboner is".

Frank Ford
06-20-2010, 10:47 AM
Like Crag's List and, before that, the newspaper want ads, Ebay is a gateway to the general public and businesses of all kinds. I think that if you go into it with the expectation that there is no control over whom you'll meet, you have a chance of coming out intact.

I'm not a seller yet - so far, I've only bought stuff, mostly tools. And, overwhelmingly I've had good experiences with the sellers. Now, sometimes I bought unwisely, but that's my fault. I don't mind paying full price for full value as I perceive it, but it's fun to get a good deal.

As with lending money to friends, I have a simple rule - if I can't afford to lose it altogether, then I don't bid.

Think I got a good deal yesterday - a Starrett 221 mic for $56.95 including shipping. I'll await my prize to evaluate it, but I think it went for less because the seller gave no description and used a super grainy online catalog photo that makes the think look like it's pitted with rust. We'll see. . .

lazlo
06-20-2010, 11:04 AM
E-bay is a GREAT place for people with the knowledge to pick the wheat from the chaff.

Ditto. I found those Haff & Schneider 3D Tasters that MickeyD and I bought for $120 Buy It Now :)
But I agree with the observation that auctions are way down, and there are many more Buy It Now auctions.

Best Offers are often a great opportunity. It's an indication that the seller didn't park the item, hoping for a whale (like MikeKandu does).
I have the spammers like MikeKandu, OzarkWoodworker, VXB Bearing et al filtered out of my Ebay searches -- that reduces the search time a lot.

I just bought a pristine Westhoff Sensitive drill press for $380 -- the seller had it listed for $500 Buy It Now/Best Offer:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160372863486&ssPageName=ADME:B:BOC:US:1123
http://i20.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/29/2b/3ed9_12.JPG

Rich Carlstedt
06-20-2010, 12:00 PM
With over 60 buys, including several machine tools I have had 5 problems
#1, a book that the seller would not ship - Ebay forced him to ship the book
#2 a lot(6) of Carbide Endmills that were used, but advertised as new. The seller sent me 2 more as compensation
#3 An Albrecht drill chuck that was bent (shank) & I was able to fix but Seller said "I" did it !
#4 a lot of NIB "Norton"sanding belts that turned out to be a box of mixed foriegn belts. The seller took them back and paid the freight. said the wrong box was shipped
#5 a lot of 15 NIB Fowler (Japan) Endmills for 100 bucks. I thought it was a fair deal until I got them and only one was a Fowler and the rest unmarked.(China or india)
The one endmill shown on the eBay closeup photo was the only real Fowler and the seller claims he didn't know the others ( in Fowler boxes ! ) were not and it was a coincidence that the only photographed endmill was a real Fowler
To me this was obvious fraud- The guy seeded boxes with cheap cutters.
The fact that only "one" Fowler was found is proof of fraud. If 4 or 5 were Fowler, then you could believe him that he bought them at an estate sale and didn't know what he had.

Now the reason i point these out, is to show what i think is normal for eBay.
About 10 percent of the sales resulted in a problem

In one third of those (# 2 &4) the seller made the deal right after contacting them. These did not involve eBay to correct.

In One third, (#1) eBay had to force the seller to sell to honor the sale .
He probably felt the bid was too low and was resistant to ship

The final third (3 & 5) are fraud in my opinion and represent about 4 % of my personal eBay sales. eBay can do little here outside of seller ratings IMHO.
A 4 % fraud rate is about comparable to ordinary flea market or newspaper want ad operations.
My point is, on the whole, eBay is not as bad as everyone seems to think.
Compare it to your real life and you can see that.
I have been swindled at flea markets like most of us probably have been
at about the same frequency.
Part of life and lets us commiserate with each other

Did you ever buy a used car ? same thing fellows

Rich

gregl
06-20-2010, 01:06 PM
I, too, am satisfied with Ebay.

Regardless of BIN or auction, hereís what I do:

- Research the item. Check completed auctions and see what the item, or similar, usually sells for.

- Research the seller. I check feedback, looking for the negatives to see if there is a pattern. Even if the seller has 100:1 ratio of positives, if there are several negatives that make similar complaints, thatís a red flag. I also read the positives; sometimes there are revealing comments in a positive rating.

- Check the shipping cost. Sometimes shipping makes the deal not worth it.

- Ask questions of the seller. If the seller does not respond or gives a vague answer, this is another red flag. I also want to be sure that there are no surprises. For tools, I always ask if there is any rust, rust pitting, or evidence that the tool has been cleaned with a wire brush or blast media; if there are any engravings such as names or numbers other than manufacturerís marks; if there is any evidence that the tool has been damaged by being dropped, and so on. Specific questions depend on the specific item.

- Check sellerís return policy. I never buy unless the seller accepts returns.

- Check location. I tend to prefer buying tools from places that have dry climates.

- If itís an auction, I decide how much I am willing to pay. I bid though Gixen, a free sniping service. I never get caught up in last-minute bidding. This is my cardinal rule. Violating this can lead to getting emotionally involved and paying too much. Unless you know this is a one-of-a-kind collectorsí item, there will be another to bid on later. I learned this from a live auction where I saw people walking around with clip boards making notes about the various lots. I realized they were dealers noting their maximum bids. I have also accepted the fact that, if it is one-on-one bidding, you will always win or lose by one bid increment and you never know how far your opponent is willing to go. So I draw the line and I do not cross it.

- I never buy anything over a hundred bucks or so, as thatís the most Iím willing to risk. I do not consider Ebay a proper place to buy expensive stuff sight unseen. At some point I will buy another lathe and mill, and Iíd also like to have a Hamilton 992B railroad watch, but I will not buy these through Ebay unless I see them in person before I bid.

Some of you will have issues with the above, but this is what works for me.

Oldbrock
06-20-2010, 01:46 PM
I tend to limit my spending to $50. for that I have bought a dividing head with four plates. one set of gauge blocks, bore gauge, set of broaches. and got stuck with a 3/4 hp grinder that I could stop with my thumb and no pain. It was the only fraud I have run into so far. Bought lots of other small ticket items too with no problem. Peter

Twmaster
06-20-2010, 01:46 PM
I think instead of TMT meaning 'too many tools' it should mean 'too much time'....

This is simple stuff. If you don't like the prices or policies don't buy.

Spend your valueless time wandering around flea markets and yard sales...

My time is worth more than that. I have better stuff to deal with than playing eBay price police.

JoeBean
06-20-2010, 01:52 PM
Actually, about the only thing I buy in eBay these days is "buy it now".

And if the price is too high, or I don't like the shipping, I don't buy it. Period, end of conversation.

Same here. In oversaturated categories you can get decent deals. In electronics a lot of individuals sell their items off quick/cheap with BIN.

J Tiers
06-20-2010, 03:11 PM
This is simple stuff. If you don't like the prices or policies don't buy.

Spend your valueless time wandering around flea markets and yard sales...



I do both of those......

Ebay I wanted to sell on, but after they wanted full control of my finances (exaggeration, almost) I decided they could choke on it.

Ebay I was going to buy on, but then it turns out that you almost have to use paypal, and I don't like THEIR policies either...... I decided they could choke on it.

So, I have bought a LOT of nice tooling at estate and even yard sales....... and I am able to see and evaluate the stuff, instead of relying on the misspelled text and "cellphone camera in the dark" photos by whatever drug addict is trying to get money by ebay listings (notice I didn't say Ebay "sales").

Ebay can poke it.

macona
06-20-2010, 09:22 PM
I have had very good luck with ebay, both selling and buying. Only a few bad transactions out of many hundred.

You simply cant find as diverse of a selection of goodies anywhere else. I have checked the other ones like Bonanzle, which was mentioned in a earlier ebay rant thread. The selection was worse than pathetic. And when I did find something there I found the seller had the same item listed over on ebay.

This great exodus from ebay that everyone talks about is questionable.

Buy-it-nows are great. Sometime I need an item and dont want to wait for an auction to end. I can still get the item for a fraction of the cost retail, so who cares. I have seen many items start out as BIN/Auction combos and then end up selling in auction higher than the original BIN.

Even better is the Best Offer. Especially when an item has not moved for a while. I have gotten stuff for 1/3 to 1/2 the asking, even when the asking was still a good deal.

D_Harris
06-21-2010, 12:27 AM
Machinists tend to be one of the groups that know what the specifics should be on what they are bidding on. And if scammed tend to find it out very quickly.

Of course newbies (like me) still trying to earn their wings have to be more careful. Especially when researching the internet produces no good results for determining the value of something.

Paid too much?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=33044215806

Didn't bid high enough?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250650212085

Couldn't figure out what to bid.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130401477650

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Tony Ennis
06-21-2010, 10:45 AM
I've gotten all my repair parts from ebay. If I don't like the price, I don't buy it.

Tinkerer
06-21-2010, 11:40 AM
I sell a few things using the BIN on ebay. When I build something for my self I always make some extra ones... as most of the time is in the set up. I put a reasonable price on them and list at 30 days cause it's the cheapest way for me to do it.

Do I like what they have done to ebay over the last few years.. NO but I can't list a spindle wrench... grease cups or shaper parts on CL and hope to sell more then one if that.

Oh and few of you on here have purchased from me... if you know it or not. ;)

Thanks Tinkerer

clutch
06-21-2010, 07:41 PM
I've bought about 56 items in my years on ebay. To put it on topic, a bridgeport, Clausing lathe, rotary table, various electronic devices and even some decent drill chucks from 800Watt.

Been semi burned once. Bought a Sony cell phone to replace the phone I use ( I keep buying the same model so I can mine the others to fix up something that works).

Anyway, won it, got a shipping notice, never saw anything else. No reply from sender. Started the complaint process. Ebay/paypal gave my money back although paypal took longer to transfer it back to checking than the grocery store grabs it out of checking.

Not being able to see the user ids of who you are bidding against really p*ss*s me off though.

Clutch

Too_Many_Tools
06-21-2010, 10:33 PM
Apparently TMT feels the need to post an anti eBay post every so often to justify his existance.

Many of the listings on eBay are no longer auction items, but are eBay stores. They are Buy It Now, but do not expire in 7 days.

If you don't like eBay or chocolate ice cream, nobody is forcing you to use it or buy it.

LOL...so JCHannum....how many Buy It Nevers do you have running? ;<)

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
06-21-2010, 10:43 PM
I think instead of TMT meaning 'too many tools' it should mean 'too much time'....

This is simple stuff. If you don't like the prices or policies don't buy.

Spend your valueless time wandering around flea markets and yard sales...

My time is worth more than that. I have better stuff to deal with than playing eBay price police.

Again...I used to spend lots of money on Ebay AUCTIONS.

I still spend lots of money...at REAL AUCTIONS...and not on overpriced Ebay Buy It Nevers that run forever.

If sellers want my money to return to Ebay, then start running auctions again.

TMT

ARFF79
06-23-2010, 03:25 AM
Like J.Tiers, I used to buy and sell items on eBay. I have a whole bunch of stuff that I would like to have sold there, but I refuse to use Rip er Pay Pal and their fees are now a bit too much for my blood. I also do not like their ability to put their claws into my bank accounts.

Got burned once, had 1 slo-o-w-w-w payer, and only had to adjust the price for 1 item that had a flaw that I did not catch. Offered to take it back with a full refund, but he still wanted it.

It seems as if they only want the Reliables of the world who can afford to have stores and list the same things for what seems like forever. I can not wait to see how the new IRS rules regarding 1099's is going to affect fees.

JCHannum
06-23-2010, 07:17 AM
LOL...so JCHannum....how many Buy It Nevers do you have running? ;<)

TMT

I have none at present, but do use it on occasion in the auction format. Once an item has been bid on the BIN goes away in that case.

I have over 5000 sales on eBay with a very few problems from either the buyers, eBay or PayPal. I have only made 40 or 50 purchases and had zero problems with any of them.

ADGO_Racing
06-23-2010, 01:42 PM
I used to use Ebay. It was good. But now the rules are so screwed up, and the fees are so out of control, it just isn't worth it.

Ebay takes about 20% of most sales. When selling certain items (New), I have less than that in mark up, I won't be in business long being joined at the hip with Ebay/Paypal. Also consider they want you to offer "free shipping" This too eats into any profit you may have. I absolutely refuse to offer free shipping. My monthly invoice from Ebay and Paypal, was more than I was selling on there. So I do not use them any more.

As for Bonanzle, they are growing FAST, about 1000 new members/day. Fees are a set flat rate. Yes they don't yet have the selection of Ebay, but they are getting more every day.

Another place to look is Upillar, they are aggressively advertising, even have some national radio advertising. They do not have the greatest selection yet either, but they are growing.

So if people here are displeased with Ebay, why not start listing items on Upillar and Bonanzle? It does not cost anything to list an item, only a (very reasonable) final value based fee. The more that is listed in those places the more people will be attracted to the sites to buy and sell. The nice part is it doesn't cost anything to give it a try.

Twmaster
06-24-2010, 07:08 PM
(re: Paypal)I also do not like their ability to put their claws into my bank accounts.

They can no longer do that. A lawsuit stopped that nonsense 5-7 years ago.


It seems as if they only want the Reliables of the world who can afford to have stores and list the same things for what seems like forever. I can not wait to see how the new IRS rules regarding 1099's is going to affect fees.

The casual seller will not see 1099's (yet) If you are a business you are keeping records anyhow. I fail to see how this is a tragedy or how it will effect fees.

TMT, the thing is you are likely not seeing the good items posted as BIN that sold fast due to a good price.

Must be nice to be retired or whatever and have all the time in the world to go wander auctions (real or otherwise). I'm out here making my living and my time is vauluable. Even if only to me.

Anyhow, like I said. Simple stuff. If the prices are not what you want to pay then don't buy. Nobody appointed you as the price police.

I sell a lot of stuff on FeeBay. Understand I have little love for them or their inbred cousin PayPal. However, they are a big part of my business and I USE them to move products. They are the 800 pound gorilla of online sales. I also list on other venues. None come close to the sales or eyeballs eBay brings.

Perhaps some day they will price themselves out of business.

Until then I'll just keep on chuckling at the same people posting the same tired whining about the same percieved boogymen.

Too_Many_Tools
06-26-2010, 02:40 PM
TMT, the thing is you are likely not seeing the good items posted as BIN that sold fast due to a good price.

Nope...I check the finished sales...very few good buys..lots of overpriced unsold junk.



If the prices are not what you want to pay then don't buy. Nobody appointed you as the price police.

I don't buy overpriced junk..nor does it seem do most other people.



Until then I'll just keep on chuckling at the same people posting the same tired whining about the same percieved boogymen.

Which boogymen? Buy It Nevers litter the Ebay landscape

TMT

Tinkerer
06-26-2010, 02:57 PM
Nope...I check the finished sales...very few good buys..lots of overpriced unsold junk.
Well if your only looking in the unsold BIN's that maybe the trouble.
I mean why even look in the sold section even if you did find a "DEAL" it's way to late to bid. :D

Your not going to find a NOS Bridgeport for $5oo.oo with free lift gate shipping not even in the good old days. Yes somethings are priced like new and then some... Some look like a deal till you look at the shipping... on these I just chuckle and keep looking for what I want at a price I want to pay.

Try looking for X tool using lowest price+shipping with BIN you might have better luck. ;)

Farbmeister
06-28-2010, 09:23 AM
Hm... TMT hates e-bay yet I don't see him complaining about 'real auction' shills that are documented and some are quite well known.

He *never* got burned at any auction OTHER than e-bay? Wow, can I give you a list of stuff I need?

E-bay is great because the your TREASURE truly can be someone elses JUNK.

I just BIN a book NEW IN WRAP for $9 total. Amazon.com had NOTHING new for less than $30. Its an obscure book that has a very niche market...

Ask me if I 'hate' e-bay or BIN... I have $20 in reasons to like it :D

squirrel
06-28-2010, 05:13 PM
T

The casual seller will not see 1099's (yet) If you are a business you are keeping records anyhow. I fail to see how this is a tragedy or how it will effect fees.


From our research the number of sellers in the Business and industrial section that will be effected is close to 78%. Most of the them have absoluletly no clue that they will get a 1099 next year and the tax liability they will have from it. That will shut down alot of them I see at the auctions every week, the ones living on the CASH economy. The impact on eBay is hard to speculate due to MANY rapidly changing issues. eBay's policy changes over the last several years have reduced our profits and total revenues greatly, they are doing an excellent job at "crash and burn" management...........next year might be their worst ever.

Too_Many_Tools
06-29-2010, 01:27 AM
Hm... TMT hates e-bay yet I don't see him complaining about 'real auction' shills that are documented and some are quite well known.

He *never* got burned at any auction OTHER than e-bay? Wow, can I give you a list of stuff I need?

E-bay is great because the your TREASURE truly can be someone elses JUNK.

I just BIN a book NEW IN WRAP for $9 total. Amazon.com had NOTHING new for less than $30. Its an obscure book that has a very niche market...

Ask me if I 'hate' e-bay or BIN... I have $20 in reasons to like it :D

Congratulations on the $9 purchase...do you plan on making another $9 Buy It Never purchase on Ebay this year to make it a whole $18 spent on the wildly unsucessful Buy It Nevers..to offset the thousands of dollars that I am not spending...but used to in actual Ebay auctions.

You sound like another Buy It Never seller trying to justify his actions....

If Ebay is so great, then why aren't the Buy It Nevers done as actual auctions with no reserves?

Afraid of the free market actually setting the real prices received?

TMT

Walter
06-29-2010, 03:50 AM
"OTH my cop friends tell me most police departments keep a watch on on-line auctions. They are a great place to fence stolen goods."

I think they just want to look at e-bay on duty. How can they tell a stolen t.v from any other used t.v? Pawn shops are great places to fence stolen goods... Craigslist is a great place to fence stolen goods... e-bay? OK, there are some dumb criminals.. I'll grant you that. But what criminal caper has ended with 'then I found the stolen X on e-bay'?

Trust me, it has happened, some thieves are utterly stupid. Lets just say that limited production runs that were at the time unreleased were selling on e-bay... that fellow had his day in court =)

John Stevenson
06-29-2010, 04:56 AM
I buy a fair bit on Ebay because I can't be bothered going shopping around.

I use to go to auctions but mostly it's a wasted day and if you do get something you have to add the sellers premium on which is more than Ebay plus your days wages.

Larger bits I tend the search by distance so I can collect.

This week I am putting a new shed up at the bottom of the garden for storage, not big, 16' x 8'

I searched on Ebay for sheds, got a list up of who was doing custom ones and rang round.
Got one delivered from 45 miles away for £25 and should have been free erection but I'm putting it together with full insulation all round.

Just had the new RCD switch box delivered this morning I bought off Ebay over the weekend, used once on site £15 including postage.

10 metal clad industrial double sockets £5 each including postage, local trade counter wants £9 and I have to queue up for an hour round trip to get them.

30 amp per phase three phase armoured cable, new but only 50 foot on the roll for £25, I have to collect this but it's 7 miles away near the community tip and I have some rubbish to go.

Floor and roof have been insulated with some insulation I had.
The rest in 8' x 4' sheets is being drop shipped from the manufacturer but bought of Ebay from an on line retailer cheaper than I can get it local but even then I have to collect.

So basically other than the cable I have everything bought and delivered on site cheaper than I can even buy at so called trade outlets.

Farbmeister
06-29-2010, 06:57 AM
Congratulations on the $9 purchase...do you plan on making another $9 Buy It Never purchase on Ebay this year to make it a whole $18 spent on the wildly unsucessful Buy It Nevers..to offset the thousands of dollars that I am not spending...but used to in actual Ebay auctions.

You sound like another Buy It Never seller trying to justify his actions....

If Ebay is so great, then why aren't the Buy It Nevers done as actual auctions with no reserves?

Afraid of the free market actually setting the real prices received?

TMT

Wow you must hare really got burned on something you REALLY REALLY wanted.

I think I sold maybe 2-3 things on e-bay... but nothing massive... maybe $100.

You seem to be just wanting to add to your post count because you posted *something*... but I cannot determine what.

As for 'Free Market' setting the price... I think you need to read a book as, um, thats exactly what happened. A merchant posted his wares in a market, I was in need of said goods/services and determined the asking price was fair. So I purchased it.

What definition of 'Free Market' requires that there be an auctioneer and a gavel bang? I don't recall an e-bay goon coercing me or intimidating me. Neither I nor the seller appeared to have any Government subsidy, or any law/regulation specifically designed to benefit either of us. I saw the book. Other merchants listed the book for 3-4x this particular merchants price (and there were actually cheaper books, but this one was in NY so shipping would only be a day or so). I bought the book. I paid the asking price. On what planet is that NOT the free market?

And please, unless you have something insightful, please don't add to your post count with inane blather about 'Buy it Never is not an auction!'. Comments like that don't put you in a strong position to convey your message or convince others of your plight.

Too_Many_Tools
06-29-2010, 11:15 PM
Wow you must hare really got burned on something you REALLY REALLY wanted.

I think I sold maybe 2-3 things on e-bay... but nothing massive... maybe $100.

You seem to be just wanting to add to your post count because you posted *something*... but I cannot determine what.

As for 'Free Market' setting the price... I think you need to read a book as, um, thats exactly what happened. A merchant posted his wares in a market, I was in need of said goods/services and determined the asking price was fair. So I purchased it.

What definition of 'Free Market' requires that there be an auctioneer and a gavel bang? I don't recall an e-bay goon coercing me or intimidating me. Neither I nor the seller appeared to have any Government subsidy, or any law/regulation specifically designed to benefit either of us. I saw the book. Other merchants listed the book for 3-4x this particular merchants price (and there were actually cheaper books, but this one was in NY so shipping would only be a day or so). I bought the book. I paid the asking price. On what planet is that NOT the free market?

And please, unless you have something insightful, please don't add to your post count with inane blather about 'Buy it Never is not an auction!'. Comments like that don't put you in a strong position to convey your message or convince others of your plight.

'Buy it Never is not an auction!' :<)

But it is a thinly veiled attempt by a seller to push overpriced merchandise to ignorant buyers.

And you conveniently avoided answering why sellers don't sell in true auctions.

Wanna try again?

TMT

Farbmeister
06-30-2010, 07:01 AM
E-bay is a MARKETPLACE:

"With more than 90 million active users globally, eBay is the world's largest online marketplace, where practically anyone can buy and sell practically anything. Founded in 1995, eBay connects a diverse and passionate community of individual buyers and sellers, as well as small businesses. "

It uses several auction types, as well as straight 'for sale' items.

Actually, e-bay does not use the term AUCTION anywhere on its site the I could find.

There ARE strict 'auction only' type web sites, but e-bay is not one of them.

In fact, if you read STEP 4 of 'HOW DO I BUY AN ITEM' at http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/questions/buy-item.html you'll clearly see that BIN is part of the process.

Again, not sure what you are complaining about, e-bay is doing exactly what you signed up for it to do.

oldtiffie
06-30-2010, 07:56 AM
I usually use the eBay "Buy it now" (BIN) facility as it suits me. I know exactly how much I have to pay. All eBay and Pay-Pal fees and costs as well as postage and/or handling are charged to and paid by the seller. As soon as I accept and authorise my Pay-Pal payment it is all over seamlessly and surgically in a matter of minutes. The PP "having paid" notice is pretty well immediate and shows up in my account the next day.

I am very fussy with whom I use the BIN process. I have never had a problem in any manner shape or form.

I don't sell on eBay or anywhere else as I destroy and/or scrap anything I no longer need.

I had reason to buy a fairly expensive item in an eBay auction recently. eBay was faultless in every way. I read up on the rules and was well advised by eBay and well prepared. I won the auction. I was notified of my "win" and sent an account - optional VISA or Pay-Pal - within minutes. I paid the account by PP within minutes and was notified that the seller had been paid. I had an email from the seller within minutes to say that he had been paid and to arrange for the transport - over 1,000Km ~ over 600 miles - at my expense - from the seller to me. It was as smooth as you could ask for and the goods arrived in excellent condition.

As a buyer, I am no more concerned about how the seller structures his price than I am in how my machine and tool supplier or my gas supplier (BOC) structures his - same goes for retail shopping in the towns. All I want to know is what the goods are, what their condition is, what I am prepared to pay and how much the seller wants. If all that meets my requirements, I buy it - otherwise - I don't - simple as that.

So, all in all as a buyer, I am very happy with eBay BIN and auction services.

If a seller can't make a go of it with what he considers (hopes?) is a good price and a good net profit, then the market is telling him that he needs to re-think and reconsider his options.

eBay is not there to make a profit for sellers any more than it is there to prevent buyers paying more than perhaps they should.

It is simply a facilitation service in the market to make a commercial profit for its share-holders.

It has no social obligations that I am aware of - nor should it have.

People should read and be aware of the terms of the contract and its terms and conditions that they sign (up to) before being able to use the services that eBay provides.

squirrel
06-30-2010, 10:26 AM
'Buy it Never is not an auction!' :<)

But it is a thinly veiled attempt by a seller to push overpriced merchandise to ignorant buyers.

And you conveniently avoided answering why sellers don't sell in true auctions.

Wanna try again?

TMT
Outside of eBay land those "overpriced" items are actual prices. We sell our "overpriced" stuff from our dot com and direct, alot of it does not have a chance on eBay. The biggest problem has been eBay, they listened to the wrong crowd, the ones that do not have a dime to spend and expect free hand-outs like shipping, post sale partial refund black mail, etc.. That group squeals the loudest so eBay has geared things toward them and the results are obvious from the sales and traffic patterns eBay currently has. Our eBay prices are high because the eBay fees and SHIPPING fees are packed into the selling price. How can we offer $2.99 shipping when it actually costs $12 USD. After the sale eBay & paypal combined fees are approximately 20% of the selling price, who do you think is paying for that, do you really think anyone is going to chase non- profitible revenue selling on eBay. The costs associated with selling on eBay are not only the fees, its the BS created from buyers black mailing sellers with poor feedback!!!!! all of that gets bundled in our eBay price model. Recently we have started listing all newly listed items on our dot com at eBay price minus the fees, you would be shocked to see how much the price drops out side of the eBay platform.

ieezitin
06-30-2010, 11:48 AM
I cannot for the life of me work out what the problem is here!. I hate Ebay with a passion with there Mob mentality and 20% cake on top, but if I see a deal, I work out all the costs and it falls in my favor! Ill bash the buy key in a heartbeat.

I go to real auctions a lot, waste of a day maybe maybe not, ive won some and lost some, thatís life.

I go on the street and find locked prices hidden with bull**** warranties and opportunities to siphon into your personal life wanting email, phone, address and zip codes etc. at least with auctions I have a little more control.

The net is my shopping now, it works! Why? Because I aint no Nit-Wit, I know what I want, how much I want to spend while paying attention to details which covers my ass.
Have I been bitten yes!!. But its dropping off as the years go by.

Simple as chicken soup guys. Anthony.

gnm109
06-30-2010, 03:11 PM
Ever notice that Ebay "auctions" that use the Buy It Now ((LOL) option go on forever as "Buy It Never"s?

I used to spend thousands monthly on Ebay...now I don't spend a nickel there.

Anyone else?

TMT


That's because you already have "Too Many Tools".

As far as eBay goes, they have become a de facto public uitility. Love them or leave them, they won't care. In the words of our wonderful new president, "They are too big to fail".

Too_Many_Tools
06-30-2010, 10:55 PM
E-bay is a MARKETPLACE:

"With more than 90 million active users globally, eBay is the world's largest online marketplace, where practically anyone can buy and sell practically anything. Founded in 1995, eBay connects a diverse and passionate community of individual buyers and sellers, as well as small businesses. "

It uses several auction types, as well as straight 'for sale' items.

Actually, e-bay does not use the term AUCTION anywhere on its site the I could find.

There ARE strict 'auction only' type web sites, but e-bay is not one of them.

In fact, if you read STEP 4 of 'HOW DO I BUY AN ITEM' at http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/questions/buy-item.html you'll clearly see that BIN is part of the process.

Again, not sure what you are complaining about, e-bay is doing exactly what you signed up for it to do.

Try looking here....

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/formats.html#auction

"Auction-style listing"

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
06-30-2010, 10:59 PM
Outside of eBay land those "overpriced" items are actual prices. We sell our "overpriced" stuff from our dot com and direct, alot of it does not have a chance on eBay. The biggest problem has been eBay, they listened to the wrong crowd, the ones that do not have a dime to spend and expect free hand-outs like shipping, post sale partial refund black mail, etc.. That group squeals the loudest so eBay has geared things toward them and the results are obvious from the sales and traffic patterns eBay currently has. Our eBay prices are high because the eBay fees and SHIPPING fees are packed into the selling price. How can we offer $2.99 shipping when it actually costs $12 USD. After the sale eBay & paypal combined fees are approximately 20% of the selling price, who do you think is paying for that, do you really think anyone is going to chase non- profitible revenue selling on eBay. The costs associated with selling on eBay are not only the fees, its the BS created from buyers black mailing sellers with poor feedback!!!!! all of that gets bundled in our eBay price model. Recently we have started listing all newly listed items on our dot com at eBay price minus the fees, you would be shocked to see how much the price drops out side of the eBay platform.

Oh yes...those POOR sellers...LOL.

They made their bed and now have to lie in it.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
06-30-2010, 11:07 PM
That's because you already have "Too Many Tools".

As far as eBay goes, they have become a de facto public uitility. Love them or leave them, they won't care. In the words of our wonderful new president, "They are too big to fail".

Maybe...maybe not....but I keep buying tools...just not from overpriced Ebay Buy It Nevers.

You must have failed history.

That is a quote from Bush...the same guy who brought you The Great Republican Recession and bailed out the banks.

Obama has accomplished more in over 1 year than Bush did 8 years.

TMT

squirrel
06-30-2010, 11:10 PM
Oh yes...those POOR sellers...LOL.

They made their bed and now have to lie in it.

TMT
Who? eBay or the sellers?

Too_Many_Tools
06-30-2010, 11:11 PM
I cannot for the life of me work out what the problem is here!. I hate Ebay with a passion with there Mob mentality and 20% cake on top, but if I see a deal, I work out all the costs and it falls in my favor! Ill bash the buy key in a heartbeat.

I go to real auctions a lot, waste of a day maybe maybe not, ive won some and lost some, thatís life.

I go on the street and find locked prices hidden with bull**** warranties and opportunities to siphon into your personal life wanting email, phone, address and zip codes etc. at least with auctions I have a little more control.

The net is my shopping now, it works! Why? Because I aint no Nit-Wit, I know what I want, how much I want to spend while paying attention to details which covers my ass.
Have I been bitten yes!!. But its dropping off as the years go by.

Simple as chicken soup guys. Anthony.

As I have said, I have spent many dollars on Ebay in the past...when merchandise was offered in the auction formats.

Now sellers are hiding behind Buy It Nevers hoping some idiot will buy their overpriced junk.

It isn't happening.

I have gone from spending thousands per month on Ebay to ZERO.

Now I spend my money at true auctions...when the value is there.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
06-30-2010, 11:15 PM
From our research the number of sellers in the Business and industrial section that will be effected is close to 78%. Most of the them have absoluletly no clue that they will get a 1099 next year and the tax liability they will have from it. That will shut down alot of them I see at the auctions every week, the ones living on the CASH economy. The impact on eBay is hard to speculate due to MANY rapidly changing issues. eBay's policy changes over the last several years have reduced our profits and total revenues greatly, they are doing an excellent job at "crash and burn" management...........next year might be their worst ever.

I agree that many sellers have a big tax surprise coming.

There is also a serious move to go retroactive on tax collection on past Ebay sales...and to collect penalties and interest in addition to the unpaid taxes.

TMT

oldtiffie
07-01-2010, 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by squirrel
From our research the number of sellers in the Business and industrial section that will be effected is close to 78%. Most of the them have absoluletly no clue that they will get a 1099 next year and the tax liability they will have from it. That will shut down alot of them I see at the auctions every week, the ones living on the CASH economy. The impact on eBay is hard to speculate due to MANY rapidly changing issues. eBay's policy changes over the last several years have reduced our profits and total revenues greatly, they are doing an excellent job at "crash and burn" management...........next year might be their worst ever.

I agree that many sellers have a big tax surprise coming.

There is also a serious move to go retroactive on tax collection on past Ebay sales...and to collect penalties and interest in addition to the unpaid taxes.

TMT

I am in OZ but the issues - and the Tax Office remedies - are pretty much the same.

Our TO is remarkably well-equipped to cross-check with a whole lot of Government departments as well as financial institutions and sellers (and buyers) etc. of goods and services that are potential sources of additional revenue.

If they can track sellers they can equally effectively track buyers too.

"Please explain", and "show cause" notices are quite common as are desk and "in depth" audits. They are very efficient.

There will be a digital trace of every item sold and bought as well as every seller and buyer and their financial institutions.

If the Government were to raise taxes and/or reduce expenditure on "social services" etc. it would not be too popular at all with Joe and Mary Citizen - Corporations too.

But if the Government - read Tax Office - were to increase revenue from "Tax-dodgers" while at the same time reducing tax (or increases in it) and maintaining or increasing expenditure and services that get voters approval the Government will do very well and the "bad guys" will have not only had to pay their way but will have been penalised and punished as well.

It doesn't take too may Tax Office "wins" this way to really get the message over to the recalcitrants in general and the Public at large.

Farbmeister
07-01-2010, 06:44 AM
Try looking here....

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/formats.html#auction

"Auction-style listing"

TMT

Correct 'AUCTION-STYLE'

There are what, a dozen or so auction types. Plus, as the learned go-er to of auctions that you are, you know that even live auctions can have an item pulled if sold before hand.

You could hold up an item, say 'First $20 takes it', and when the first guy say $20! its sold.

And as I mentioned, e-bay allows store type listings with BIN. Its not it not allowed.

Farbmeister
07-01-2010, 06:48 AM
I agree that many sellers have a big tax surprise coming.

There is also a serious move to go retroactive on tax collection on past Ebay sales...and to collect penalties and interest in addition to the unpaid taxes.

TMT

No, you were ALWAYS supposed to report it.. but the gubment never had a method to track it. Use taxes are the BIGGEST rip off (if you buy something out of state, you are supposed to pay TAX on it the moment it comes into the state.

"A use tax is a type of excise tax levied in the United States. It is assessed upon otherwise "tax free" tangible personal property purchased by a resident of the assessing state for use, storage or consumption of goods in that state (not for resale), regardless of where the purchase took place. The use tax is typically assessed at the same rate as the sales tax that would have been owed (if any) had the same goods been purchased in the state of residence. Use tax applies when sales tax has not been charged. Purchases made over the Internet and out-of-state are the most common type of transactions subject to a use tax."

This is a perfect example of 'if people only knew the law they would have it changed'. That time is coming.

Ever wonder why the employer does your federal/state/local taxes? You would march on DC in a heartbeat as soon as you realized how much the gubment stole from you every week. But since its done in the background by the employer its just a number on a stub. Be self employed and write your 940/941 and estimated tax payment every week/month.. that's cash directly from your pocket and it SUCKS.

jerhalco
07-01-2010, 07:12 AM
Ever wonder why the employer does your federal/state/local taxes? You would march on DC in a heartbeat as soon as you realized how much the gubment stole from you every week. But since its done in the background by the employer its just a number on a stub. Be self employed and write your 940/941 and estimated tax payment every week/month.. that's cash directly from your pocket and it SUCKS.

This is correct. DC doesn't want the average drone to think about it. They also know joe citizen wouldn't have saved the money to pay their taxes. The money would have been spent and DC would be going to court to get blood from the turnip.

squirrel
07-01-2010, 09:12 AM
I agree that many sellers have a big tax surprise coming.

There is also a serious move to go retroactive on tax collection on past Ebay sales...and to collect penalties and interest in addition to the unpaid taxes.

TMT
eBay fought Canada for a long time to withhold Canadian sellers sales figures and lost last year, their government went back too, I believe, 2003!!! With this countries debt load look out!!

gnm109
07-01-2010, 09:51 AM
I agree that many sellers have a big tax surprise coming.

There is also a serious move to go retroactive on tax collection on past Ebay sales...and to collect penalties and interest in addition to the unpaid taxes.

TMT


Perhaps they can go back and collect some tax from past sales. Good luck collecting from the little old ladies who sold the family heirlooms to get by after their mates passed on. It will be interesting to try collect from people who no longer have accounts with eBay. Also, proving who used the computer to make the purchase might be a daunting task. It sounds like a good plan to increase government employment which, after all, seems to be the goal of the present administration.

Someday, the government will learn that increasing taxes can only net so much revenue. People will simply quit buying and selling on eBay if they know they will receive a 1099. I know that I will.

oldtiffie
07-01-2010, 09:59 AM
Same here.

All tax-related records (all kinds) are to be kept for 7 years as that is how far back the Tax Office audits go here in OZ.

Not knowing or ignorance is no defence.

Tax avoidance or minimisation is generally - but not always - OK but Tax evasion is definitely not OK - as they will tell - and convince - you in no uncertain terms.

Check the text and warnings at or near to where where you sign-off on your Tax Returns. The penalties are quite high.

Trading for "hobbies" is generally tax-free but be sure you can convince the Tax Office if they think its a business or taxable!!!

Its amazing what they have access to and what they find and how far back they go.

JCHannum
07-01-2010, 10:54 AM
This is the first I have heard of eBay providing a 1099. It will be interesting to see how it plays out if it is indeed a fact.

I have been using eBay for over ten years now, and have yet to receive one dime from them or PayPal. Since they have paid me no money, how can they furnish a 1099? They are merely agents, no different than a Flea Market or your bank. The money is yours and the transactions are between you and the buyer or seller.

lazlo
07-01-2010, 12:34 PM
This is the first I have heard of eBay providing a 1099. It will be interesting to see how it plays out if it is indeed a fact.

I doubt very much they'll go after small-time individuals.

The bill is intended for PowerSellers like Reliable, who make their living on Ebay, but probably pay no income tax.

JCHannum
07-01-2010, 12:46 PM
It doesn't have anything to do with sellers. The 1099 is a method to report miscellaneous income. If I have an article in HSM, VP will send me a 1099 to report the income.

Whatever income I receive from my eBay sales comes from the seller, not eBay. There is no way that eBay can submit a 1099 as they have not made any sort of payment to me. They have no way of knowing if the sale was completed, or if the buyer and I negotiated a different price on the sale.

lazlo
07-01-2010, 12:52 PM
It doesn't have anything to do with sellers. The 1099 is a method to report miscellaneous income. If I have an article in HSM, VP will send me a 1099 to report the income.

Ebay and Taxes
(http://www.etaxes.com/eBay.htm)

For some reason, the media has finally realized that people selling items on eBay may have tax implications.

Under no circumstance will eBay be issuing a 1099, at least not at this point. eBay is only a faciliator and has NO part in the transaction (with the exception of PayPal, which is owned by eBay, being involved), other than as facilitator. One of the primary reasons that eBay should not have to issue 1099's is that they have NO way of knowing what if anything has actually been paid. They can only report on the auction itself and nothing more.

PayPal actually collects and pays over funds to you so they may be required to report all payments made to the IRS. They have all the information in their files to do so. Remember, that you are required to report ALL of your taxable income. If you are selling used household products for less than what you purchased them for, there is no taxable event. If you are engaged in selling products at a profit, you must report every penny.

lazlo
07-01-2010, 12:58 PM
Jim, here's a better explanation, from Forbes:

Coming Soon To eBay: The Taxman (http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/17/irs-ebay-audits-personal-finance-taxes-internet-sellers.html)

Are you a spare-bedroom merchant? Time to start reporting sales to the IRS.

With the economy worsening, more and more people are likely trying to make ends meet by selling goods via eBay, Amazon.com, Google Checkout and other online services. The Internal Revenue Service is fixing to wield a big new weapon to get its cut.

Desperate to generate revenues by narrowing the "tax gap" (and at the urging of the Bush administration), Congress last year passed legislation requiring processors of third-party payments and settlements--mainly payment card companies and services like Paypal--to report to the IRS individuals and business entities that receive at least $20,000 a year in credit- or debit-card charges from 200 or more transactions. The mandatory reporting, buried in the Housing Assistance Tax Act of 2008, would begin in 2011.

ieezitin
07-01-2010, 01:46 PM
Ebay will be forced to declare all who trade on there forum. With billions of hard currency being traded the global collective cannot resist this slice of cake. And gentlemen it will be supervised by there trusty computer collectors that work diligently 24-7.

Then every year at the G20 conference they will whittle away at there little schemes making sure there all linked together and on the same page to collect said taxes.

Taxing the populous is 6000 years old, the only change through out the years is the method of collection.

This was a post I wrote lately on another forum regarding a similar topic.

ďThere is to my knowledge only one really wealthy country whose riches are shared and managed by all equally.

The rest of the world is shafted by there governments to which they play a global game set up and designed to suppress the middle class.

It works by empowering the rich to keep them well! rich, by feeding the poor from the middle classes pocket to gain there vote so they keep there jobs. It is all done by taxing the middle class, rigged living and working environments, markets and industry created by the system to keep in check the majority ( middle class ).

Forget fines, levies, duties, stamps, mortgages, tolls, cost of living etc they are all rolled and summed up and expressed this way Taxes!!! And Taxes = diversion every one of you is caught up in it including me.

I am a Pipe welder here in Maryland USA. I make around $120,000 a year my income taxes run around 25%, then they take 15% from gross for Federal social security (retirement Fund) Now I have to pay my State tax 6% on my gross income annually, then there is my state sales tax ( everything purchased inside this state ) which is 6%, then there is my property taxes at around 16% based on my property value which is set by the state not the market, then I pay around 20% of my gross income for a private health care program, capital gains income is 30% with no recourse to loss.

Now compare that with what you make and pay and I guarantee you it works out the same, UK, Germany, OZ, USA, and Canada. Itís done by design. The dollar, pound, Frank, euro is all equally worth nothing. The UK is usually considered to be the worldís highest taxed nation of around 52% gross income with the 17% Vat. Now do your math, if you add up my tax obligations all accept the property tax it = 72% UK = 69% strange Uh!!!? Very close, an irony considering the British wholly perfected the tax system that started in 1066 then they exported it to the USA in 1570, which in turn got there asses kicked out in 1776 because of it, then the USA needed cash in 1917 the income tax was reintroduced based on the British system.

We are paying $2.63 a gallon of gas here right now, oh!! I hear you say ďthatís cheapď, well yes it is but I have been financially raped before I filled up my tank, the tax was collected elsewhere and not put on gas.

Now saying all that, there exists a special guild where if you take the time and surround yourself with the right people and with a little help from the tax laws, you will end up in the exempt club.

We own a 10 acre horse boarding stables which my wife works, also I work my machine and weld shop on the side which we put through our farm services business, all my machines, shops, vehicles, land, fuel, computers, clothing is written as write offís, 30% off the top. Capital equipment is amortized over 5 years giving me a tax credit every year for 5 years. I get low mortgage rates as I am agricultural.

I will give you a classic example, diesel is $2.95 a gallon which everyone has to pay, but! Since I own a business I can claim on my taxes this, I have a farm truck, work truck both diesel, welder is diesel, and our 50hp tractor is diesel and the farm generator. Now tax law allows me 30% off the top $2.95 = $2.07 then for every gallon purchased I get $0.60 cents Federal credit bringing it down to $1.47. All legal and written in the tax code.

The only snag is capital gains and profit margins, but there are ways around it, as in the law allows for capital drainage.

So remember when you purchase your next little boring bar from either your own country or abroad you are all paying the same, the tax cake maybe sliced into different thick nesses but it all tastes the same.

Wealthy men donít pay taxes, its designed that way.

As too the country I stated in my first paragraph, its Norway, they own 75% of the natural gas all supplied to the European Union with a collective population of 670 million people and there reserves head into 2080. They are a socialistic nation with all needs provided for by the state funded by its wealth, with very little corruption in the government the people live well. Not bad for doing a 35 hour mandatory work week uh!.

Money is the root of all evil and he lives in a Dollar bill, pound, Yen and EuroĒ

God bless. Anthony.

JCHannum
07-01-2010, 02:25 PM
It does not concern me, as I have always reported my eBay and PayPal income. My main reason for posting is to point out that eBay cannot and will not be issuing 1099s. It seems that TMT and squirrel have bad information.

gnm109
07-01-2010, 04:34 PM
What happens if the sale on eBay results in a net loss? For example, you purchase an Atlas lathe from a commercial auction for $500 and when you get it home, you discover that the motor is burnt out and there is a crack across the bed in the rear.

You promptly list it on eBay disclosing the problems and stating that it does not run and is sold only for parts. The sale closes at $250 and the buyer picks it up locally. You lose $250 on the sale.

There is no income on that transaction. If you receive a 1099 from someone showing that you received $250, it's still not income, it's a loss.

This is an accounting nightmare for the government but they could care less. They will just hire more worker bees.

.

squirrel
07-01-2010, 05:15 PM
It does not concern me, as I have always reported my eBay and PayPal income. My main reason for posting is to point out that eBay cannot and will not be issuing 1099s. It seems that TMT and squirrel have bad information.
Bad choice of wording on my part, eBay owns paypal and with out paypal you cannot sell on eBay unless you have a merchant acount.

oldtiffie
07-01-2010, 07:12 PM
What happens if the sale on eBay results in a net loss? For example, you purchase an Atlas lathe from a commercial auction for $500 and when you get it home, you discover that the motor is burnt out and there is a crack across the bed in the rear.

You promptly list it on eBay disclosing the problems and stating that it does not run and is sold only for parts. The sale closes at $250 and the buyer picks it up locally. You lose $250 on the sale.

There is no income on that transaction. If you receive a 1099 from someone showing that you received $250, it's still not income, it's a loss.

This is an accounting nightmare for the government but they could care less. They will just hire more worker bees.

.

Not so sure about that.

The income and outgoings sides of the ledger are separate and can be or are reconciled later to determine whether there is a net loss or gain.

Whether the net gain is reportable and/or taxable is another matter as is whether it is a "hobby" or "personal" or a "business(-like)" deal.

A net taxable loss can be "carried over" from successive year to year - but only if you are a "business".

The big worry for some may be that if the Tax Office (IRS) "makes inquiries" it may well occur that your local planning or regulatory authorities may be "asked questions" as well which may in turn have them "inquiring" about or to you as (another) "interested party" so that a "snow-ball" or "cascading" series of events may not be to your advantage.

It doesn't take long before the "word gets around" if you are being "inquired about" - and all too often, you may be among the last to know.

If I have a concern about an item, I will either get an "opinion" from the Tax Office before I lodge my Tax Return/Report or just include it anyway and send a letter attached to the Return. The Tax Office have been excellent in that regard.

As my shop etc. is/are "personal" ie "non-business" and as I get no income from it I have no tax to pay on it nor can I claim any taxable deductions either, nor do I do any work (paid for or not) for others. As I never sell anything, I have no gains at all - taxable or otherwise.

My shop is within all the local planning and regulatory requirements as well - ie it is not a "non-conforming use".

JCHannum
07-01-2010, 07:28 PM
Bad choice of wording on my part, eBay owns paypal and with out paypal you cannot sell on eBay unless you have a merchant acount.

As I understand it, PayPal will issue what will be called 1099k's to vendors who have more than $20,000 in sales and 200 sales per year. This will go into effect in 2011. The first 1099k you will see will be Jan 2012. This will not have much effect on the casual seller, and will merely provide additional documentation to the seller who has been reporting his sales properly. It will get the guy who has been dodging his taxes and rightly so.

ldn
07-01-2010, 08:16 PM
What happens if the sale on eBay results in a net loss? For example, you purchase an Atlas lathe from a commercial auction for $500 and when you get it home, you discover that the motor is burnt out and there is a crack across the bed in the rear.

.

Assuming you meet the $20,000/200 sales rule, then you just file a Schedule C declaring your ebay income as well as your "expenses", in this case the original cost of the lathe.

What I don't understand is how they handle sales of items that were not purchased in the same year. There will probably have to be a modification to the Schedule C form to accommodate that. You *might* even be able to take the loss as a deduction, depending on your other circumstances and how the IRS handles the new 1099k

What I do know for sure is that if you sell a bunch of stuff on ebay for a loss, e.g. cleaning out your garage, you do not owe taxes on those amounts.

What I find interesting about the new 1099k is that it breaks down your income by month, so the IRS can be sure you are paying your quarterly taxes on time.

oldtiffie
07-01-2010, 08:29 PM
As I understand it, PayPal will issue what will be called 1099k's to vendors who have more than $20,000 in sales and 200 sales per year. This will go into effect in 2011. The first 1099k you will see will be Jan 2012. This will not have much effect on the casual seller, and will merely provide additional documentation to the seller who has been reporting his sales properly. It will get the guy who has been dodging his taxes and rightly so.

Thanks Jim.

I had rather hoped that a post similar to that would come up.

While I agree with you that that is on the basis of "transactions" on or by or with a single provider of those services and that if you have multiple providers none of which exceed those limits, that, on the face of it, you or your transactions will not be reported.

That does not prevent the Tax Office or IRS "trawling" those types of providers to see how often you appear and what your aggregate or grossed-up over-all figures are for any period.

It could be triggered by the tax returns and documents that your sellers are required to submit.

There are all sorts of "red flags" that may cause the TO/IRS to at least "have a look" at you and your affairs.

Jealous or vindictive or vexatious competitors, "friends" or neighbours can trigger such an outcome - and you would never know.

Its not hard to rack up the numbers and cash value on an aggregated basis.

Sometimes, for no real or apparent reason, the TO/IRS will just take a "shot in the dark" anyway and if you come up in the lottery you will "get a call". If the resultant cursory checks come up with nothing of concern, they wish you good day and get on with other inquiries. But if they DO find "something of interest" or have a question that you cannot answer satisfactorily, they may well elect to pursue the matter (and you?) further.

I don't think I'd want to be on a Government pension or benefit if I "got caught" as those departments - amongst others - "talk to each other".

I buy a lot of tools and computer stuff and I am quite sure that if any of those suppliers were investigated as regards tax or bankruptcy etc. that there is a good chance that my name on their records will come up as they issue me a receipt for everything I buy from them whether paid for in cash or by direct debit or EFT from my account via my credit card. It just so happens that here in OZ, the bankruptcy people are in the Tax Office and that the TO is almost always a creditor (unpaid taxes etc.) and may have even initiated the bankruptcy.

I have no concerns, nor am I the least paranoid about any of this as I am convinced that its easier and cheaper to pay "up front" than not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

ieezitin
07-01-2010, 09:09 PM
It does not concern me, as I have always reported my eBay and PayPal income. My main reason for posting is to point out that eBay cannot and will not be issuing 1099s. It seems that TMT and squirrel have bad information.

Read my thread. They wonít issue the 1099 they donít have too; all they will be required to do is report. Once itís in the system youíre done.

If youíre a business man you would see this.

Anthony.

JCHannum
07-01-2010, 09:16 PM
Read my thread. They wonít issue the 1099 they donít have too; all they will be required to do is report. Once itís in the system youíre done.

If youíre a business man you would see this.

Anthony.

Um, that is what I said. eBay will not issue a 1099, or be required to report anything. They are nothing but agents. PayPal will issue a 1099k in the instances I have described in the later post.

squirrel
07-01-2010, 09:59 PM
The one good thing is eBay prices will drop! You would be shocked at the number of people buying at the auctions to specifically sell on eBay, I have seen the same people for many years working on the "cash economy". They have also driven the live auction prices up an average of 200% over the last 6 years.

oldtiffie
07-01-2010, 10:01 PM
I think that the TO/IRS has the capacity and authority to "look behind" the PayPal report or payment to "see" the eBay transaction that triggered the PP transaction. From there they can identify sellers and buyers as well as the accounts that the PP payment was authorised from and paid into.

eBay may or may not be a "facilitator" but it is also both an agent of and beneficial owner of PayPal.

That being the case, it seems that as eBay gets a "cut" or "commission" from every PP transaction, it seems that the TO/IRS has a good case to require eBay to "report" them.

eBay gets a "benefit" from its subordinate PP's transactions.

I think that its way, way better to assume that all buying and selling transactions are "reported" on in one way or another than to assume (hope?) that they are not.

oldtiffie
07-01-2010, 10:16 PM
The one good thing is eBay prices will drop! You would be shocked at the number of people buying at the auctions to specifically sell on eBay, I have seen the same people for many years working on the "cash economy". They have also driven the live auction prices up an average of 200% over the last 6 years.

Its called the"Black" or "cash in hand" economy here in OZ and the Tax Office is right after them.

You can include "flea markets" and similar others.

You can include those who get their stuff sold but not listed as "extras" at clearance sales or auctions too.

The TO here also checks banks and other lenders for loans or mortgages etc. that the borrower, on the face of it, does not have the capacity to pay off - or more likely items that are expansive and bought or sold for cash. Any item over $10,000 is included in this list and is "reportable". There are others. Transfers to or from "over-seas" are very much included.

You won't get much sympathy from your creditors, business associates, or the local population etc. if you get "trapped" for not paying your taxes.

Competitors will not be too sympathetic either if they think you have been either not paying tax that they had paid or that you charged it and pocketed (stole?) it.

squirrel
07-01-2010, 10:32 PM
The number of people using paypal to launder money is so high it has put our company in a hardship. When I buy at the auctions I have to stop at profitable price, the "cash economy" gang has no PAYROLL, INSURANCE OR PAY TAXES so they can bid higher due to their lack of any expenses. That is what drives the secondary market value of none capital equipment so high, we need inventory so I pay more.

Too_Many_Tools
07-01-2010, 10:55 PM
It does not concern me, as I have always reported my eBay and PayPal income. My main reason for posting is to point out that eBay cannot and will not be issuing 1099s. It seems that TMT and squirrel have bad information.

If you have reported your income including your Ebay income AND paid taxes on it then you are okay.

You are also the exception.

Federal and state governments will pursue back taxes from past unreported Ebay income.

Ebay has all the records from the first Ebay sale and the personal info assist the governments to locate any tax dodgers.

All it takes is running a few programs on several databases...welcome to the wonderful world of computers.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
07-01-2010, 11:01 PM
In addition to the tax man watching Ebay, several test programs, both state and Federal are monitoring Craigslist and Facebook for offenders.

TMT

squirrel
07-01-2010, 11:25 PM
In addition to the tax man watching Ebay, several test programs, both state and Federal are monitoring Craigslist and Facebook for offenders.

TMT
I think that is more for prostitution and tracking stolen goods, thats what made craigslist so popular.

Too_Many_Tools
07-01-2010, 11:35 PM
I think that is more for prostitution and tracking stolen goods, thats what made craigslist so popular.

That too.

But as I said..they are now watching Craigslist/Facebook since Ebay has been shown to be a gold mine of untapped tax revenue from underreporting/nonreported taxable income.

TMT

D_Harris
07-02-2010, 10:50 PM
That too.

But as I said..they are now watching Craigslist/Facebook since Ebay has been shown to be a gold mine of untapped tax revenue from underreporting/nonreported taxable income.

TMT

I may have to resort to Craigslist myself.

I've been an eBay buyer for years, but just started with the selling aspect.

I posted a 5C collet set auction several days ago and had the minimum at $89 with a $100 "But-It-Now".

Today I notice that the "But-It-Now" is gone and someone managed to bid $0.01. (How is this possible?).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140421944814

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

gary350
07-03-2010, 12:31 AM
I buy and sell a lot of items on ebay. I have 8 items on their now. I get nasty emails from people that seem to think they have the right to tell me how to list my auctions. Some people seem to be so darn impatent they insist on having it now so if it is not listed as Buy It Now they are mad and let me know they don't like it. I use to tell people to piss off but don't have time to deal with jerks so I don't answer anymore. I never list Buy It Now. I decide how much I want and that is my starting bid price. If it sells for that price that is fine and if it sells for a little more that is better. I never list auctions with a reserve and I refuse to bid on auctions with a reserve. There is a trend on ebay most people will not bid on reserve auctions. Some sellers like to list in large bold letters, NO RESERVE......pretty stupid if you ask me because it is pretty obvious to anyone that clicks on the auction and looks they can see there is no reserve you have to be blind not to see. Did you ever see L@@K in the subject line. Do a search for L@@K I get 103,770 auctions. Wonder how many buyers do a search for L@@k. I have never seen a L@@k wonder what it looks like. If I buy a L@@k wonder if it is something I can use. I have no idea what a L@@K is? There is a lot of people trying to sell a L@@K.

legendboy
07-03-2010, 01:31 AM
I may have to resort to Craigslist myself.

I've been an eBay buyer for years, but just started with the selling aspect.

I posted a 5C collet set auction several days ago and had the minimum at $89 with a $100 "But-It-Now".

Today I notice that the "But-It-Now" is gone and someone managed to bid $0.01. (How is this possible?).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140421944814

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

this happens if you set your auction up as an auction with a buy it now price

if you want to sell at a fixed price you have to choose that in the options



on a side note, the best way to maximize your dollars is to sell items unreserved and make sure you have the appropriate words in your title and subtitle to bring in the crowed of people your intrested in looking at your auction

takes a bit of research but its well worth it

squirrel
07-03-2010, 09:53 AM
I may have to resort to Craigslist myself.

I've been an eBay buyer for years, but just started with the selling aspect.

I posted a 5C collet set auction several days ago and had the minimum at $89 with a $100 "But-It-Now".

Today I notice that the "But-It-Now" is gone and someone managed to bid $0.01. (How is this possible?).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140421944814

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
Darren, if you are 100% positive you did not have the starting bid at .01 cents change your password IMMEDIATELY! Its one of two things, that is one of the oldests scams on eBay, they would change your price and have some one else buy it or eBay has a glitch. eBay does have a glitches, we have had items that were sold months prior mysteriously re-appear, then some one buys it and we get bad feedback. We have changed ours to a very large letter and number combo and its not been cracked yet, I also have internal policy regarding how emails are handled and that has helped.

gnm109
07-03-2010, 10:09 AM
this happens if you set your auction up as an auction with a buy it now price

if you want to sell at a fixed price you have to choose that in the options



on a side note, the best way to maximize your dollars is to sell items unreserved and make sure you have the appropriate words in your title and subtitle to bring in the crowed of people your intrested in looking at your auction

takes a bit of research but its well worth it

That's right. If you have an auction with no minimum as well as "Buy it Now", you lose the "Buy it Now" at the first bid. I learned that a long time ago.

The only time I use a reserve is if there is an item that I simply won't sell for less. Then I also have a starting bid that is substantial. Even then, a fixed price auction is a better deal. I don't use Buy it now with a reserve on an auction. If I want to do that, I will simply set a fixed price sale.

Too_Many_Tools
07-03-2010, 11:27 PM
I buy and sell a lot of items on ebay. I have 8 items on their now. I get nasty emails from people that seem to think they have the right to tell me how to list my auctions. Some people seem to be so darn impatent they insist on having it now so if it is not listed as Buy It Now they are mad and let me know they don't like it. I use to tell people to piss off but don't have time to deal with jerks so I don't answer anymore. I never list Buy It Now. I decide how much I want and that is my starting bid price. If it sells for that price that is fine and if it sells for a little more that is better. I never list auctions with a reserve and I refuse to bid on auctions with a reserve. There is a trend on ebay most people will not bid on reserve auctions. Some sellers like to list in large bold letters, NO RESERVE......pretty stupid if you ask me because it is pretty obvious to anyone that clicks on the auction and looks they can see there is no reserve you have to be blind not to see. Did you ever see L@@K in the subject line. Do a search for L@@K I get 103,770 auctions. Wonder how many buyers do a search for L@@k. I have never seen a L@@k wonder what it looks like. If I buy a L@@k wonder if it is something I can use. I have no idea what a L@@K is? There is a lot of people trying to sell a L@@K.


I agree that setting a reserve is a deal killer.

Most people just pass them by.

Note that Ebay does not offer a selection that lists NO RESERVE auctions.

That is a BIG tipoff that tells you that buyers get better deals on NO RESERVE auctions.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
07-03-2010, 11:29 PM
That's right. If you have an auction with no minimum as well as "Buy it Now", you lose the "Buy it Now" at the first bid. I learned that a long time ago.

The only time I use a reserve is if there is an item that I simply won't sell for less. Then I also have a starting bid that is substantial. Even then, a fixed price auction is a better deal. I don't use Buy it now with a reserve on an auction. If I want to do that, I will simply set a fixed price sale.

You mean "Buy It Never". ;<)

TMT

gnm109
07-04-2010, 10:50 AM
I agree that setting a reserve is a deal killer.

Most people just pass them by.

Note that Ebay does not offer a selection that lists NO RESERVE auctions.

That is a BIG tipoff that tells you that buyers get better deals on NO RESERVE auctions.

TMT


Sometimes you simply have to use a reserve, however. Reserves are almost mandatory when the item you are selling is completely unique. Say you have a 1939 Martin D-28 guitar in pristine condition. You have it appraised and it's worth, say, $50,000 to a collector. (Yes, they sell for that all day long nowadays.....silly, isn't it?)

If I were to sell something like that, ( I wouldn't, of course, but we're just talking here) putting it up without a reserve is extremely foolish, assuming that you intend to sell to the highest bidder.

It would have to be reserved at the appraised value. Selling it for less wouldn't make any sense, since if it's the genuine article in proper condition, it's irreplaceable and totally unique.

I agree, however, if you are selling something like your grandmother's old house slippers, or your favorite Teddy Bear from your childhood, you should probably stare it at $.01. You've got to be realistic.

:D

Too_Many_Tools
07-04-2010, 06:25 PM
Sometimes you simply have to use a reserve, however. Reserves are almost mandatory when the item you are selling is completely unique. Say you have a 1939 Martin D-28 guitar in pristine condition. You have it appraised and it's worth, say, $50,000 to a collector. (Yes, they sell for that all day long nowadays.....silly, isn't it?)

If I were to sell something like that, ( I wouldn't, of course, but we're just talking here) putting it up without a reserve is extremely foolish, assuming that you intend to sell to the highest bidder.

It would have to be reserved at the appraised value. Selling it for less wouldn't make any sense, since if it's the genuine article in proper condition, it's irreplaceable and totally unique.

I agree, however, if you are selling something like your grandmother's old house slippers, or your favorite Teddy Bear from your childhood, you should probably stare it at $.01. You've got to be realistic.

:D

Try explaining that again...the value of the item does not determine whether or not a reserve is used.

A seller places a reserve on an item because they are AFRAID that it will sell lower than what they want it to in an auction...no faith in the free market system.

The same reason sellers use Buy It Nevers.

And FWIW...a valid appraisal will reflect TRUE MARKET VALUE...as will an free market auction without BIN's, reserves, premiums and all the other crappola that sellers like to use to spin transactions to their favor.

TMT

gnm109
07-04-2010, 06:39 PM
Try explaining that again...the value of the item does not determine whether or not a reserve is used.

A seller places a reserve on an item because they are AFRAID that it will sell lower than what they want it to in an auction...no faith in the free market system.

The same reason sellers use Buy It Nevers.

And FWIW...a valid appraisal will reflect TRUE MARKET VALUE...as will an free market auction without BIN's, reserves, premiums and all the other crappola that sellers like to use to spin transactions to their favor.

TMT


OK, your comment makes no sense. You say:

"the value of the item does not determine whether or not a reserve is used."

Then you say:

A seller places a reserve on an item because they are AFRAID that it will sell lower than what they want it to in an auction...

Wrong. They place a reserve on an item based on it's true value to them based on their knowledge and what the market provides for that specific item. (there goes your first premise).

Fear doesn't enter into it. (there goes your second premise). My example, a vintage Martin guitar has a well-known value. No fear involved. Sellers are simply making absolutely certain that something doesn't sell under the market. They are only interested in a certain price, or more. No fear involved. The reserve removes the fear. Nothing wrong with fear in any case.

As to your third point - No faith in the free market system. That's laughable. The so-called free market doesn't control what I want for a unique item. If I have something that's rare and unique (I do from time to time) whoever buys it is going to pay the full appraised value - the free market be damned. If it doesn't meet reserve, no sale.

I wouldn't use a reserve on a used GE toaster, but other items, yes. I will use a reserve whenever it serves my needs. No "crappola" (your word)
involved.

I guess you've had some items that you wanted and you didn't bid high enough. you sound bitter.....I understand. :D


.

D_Harris
07-04-2010, 06:53 PM
And FWIW...a valid appraisal will reflect TRUE MARKET VALUE...as will an free market auction without BIN's, reserves, premiums and all the other crappola that sellers like to use to spin transactions to their favor.

The "BIN's, reserves, premiums and all the other crappola..." are all part of the "free market auction".

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

squirrel
07-04-2010, 07:07 PM
That's why we stopped listing with no reserve auctions. Fixed price is a much better way to go. eBay 11 years ago was strong enough items would reach and or exceed real value, anymore its a joke. I test the auction format with our other account and the its still a joke, just had something sell for .99 cents, the opening bid price. We usually end the listing if the if it does not hit at least 65% of the price within 12 hours of the auction ending, forgot about that one.

Ridgerunner
07-04-2010, 07:19 PM
Sometimes you simply have to use a reserve, however. Reserves are almost mandatory when the item you are selling is completely unique. Say you have a 1939 Martin D-28 guitar in pristine condition. You have it appraised and it's worth, say, $50,000 to a collector. (Yes, they sell for that all day long nowadays.....silly, isn't it?)
:D

Speaking of these high ticket items, EBay has a $15000.00 limit on bidding unless certain conditions (http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/limits-on-buyers.html) as determined by EBay are met.

Too_Many_Tools
07-04-2010, 08:22 PM
OK, your comment makes no sense. You say:

"the value of the item does not determine whether or not a reserve is used."

Then you say:

A seller places a reserve on an item because they are AFRAID that it will sell lower than what they want it to in an auction...

Wrong. They place a reserve on an item based on it's true value to them based on their knowledge and what the market provides for that specific item. (there goes your first premise).

Fear doesn't enter into it. (there goes your second premise). My example, a vintage Martin guitar has a well-known value. No fear involved. Sellers are simply making absolutely certain that something doesn't sell under the market. They are only interested in a certain price, or more. No fear involved. The reserve removes the fear. Nothing wrong with fear in any case.

As to your third point - No faith in the free market system. That's laughable. The so-called free market doesn't control what I want for a unique item. If I have something that's rare and unique (I do from time to time) whoever buys it is going to pay the full appraised value - the free market be damned. If it doesn't meet reserve, no sale.

I wouldn't use a reserve on a used GE toaster, but other items, yes. I will use a reserve whenever it serves my needs. No "crappola" (your word)
involved.

I guess you've had some items that you wanted and you didn't bid high enough. you sound bitter.....I understand. :D


.


LOL..an item is worth what the FREE market will pay for it...nothing more..nothing less.

A reserve does not change that.

Everything I mentioned earlier are but games that sellers try to play...out of fear.

And your attempts to insult me does not change this. ;<)

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
07-04-2010, 08:23 PM
Speaking of these high ticket items, EBay has a $15000.00 limit on bidding unless certain conditions (http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/limits-on-buyers.html) as determined by EBay are met.

Because of fear...the house always wants to win.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
07-04-2010, 08:27 PM
The "BIN's, reserves, premiums and all the other crappola..." are all part of the "free market auction".

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Actually they are not.

They are attempts to weight the transaction in the seller's favor.

Wise buyers strive for a level playing field...knowing that it is their money that makes the system work.

Any item is worthless if no one is willing to buy it.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
07-04-2010, 08:34 PM
That's why we stopped listing with no reserve auctions. Fixed price is a much better way to go. eBay 11 years ago was strong enough items would reach and or exceed real value, anymore its a joke. I test the auction format with our other account and the its still a joke, just had something sell for .99 cents, the opening bid price. We usually end the listing if the if it does not hit at least 65% of the price within 12 hours of the auction ending, forgot about that one.

Or perhaps you are seeing the true worth of the item through the eyes of the free market.

Remember all those millions of houses that are now suddenly worth pennies on the dollar?

Most of their owners (including the banks) still are thinking the houses are worth more than what the free market says they are worth.

The free market thinks otherwise.

No one likes a haircut...when they are the one who bleeds.

Look up the word "deflation" and apply it to machine tools...and Buy It Nevers.

TMT

gnm109
07-04-2010, 09:02 PM
LOL..an item is worth what the FREE market will pay for it...nothing more..nothing less.

A reserve does not change that.

Everything I mentioned earlier are but games that sellers try to play...out of fear.

And your attempts to insult me does not change this. ;<)

TMT


You do sound bitter. You must have had some trouble sometime on an auction. Out of deference to you, I think I'll start using reserves again on my auctions. :)

You don't like being insulted and I don't like having everything I say contradicted for no reason.

D_Harris
07-04-2010, 09:23 PM
Actually they are not.

They are attempts to weight the transaction in the seller's favor.

Wise buyers strive for a level playing field...knowing that it is their money that makes the system work.

Any item is worthless if no one is willing to buy it.

TMT

Well, since you want to put those rules in place. Let's take all the price tags off of all the merchandise the next time you walk into any store. After all, those are just "reserves" put in place by those fearful sellers to weigh the transaction in their favor.

And going by what you are saying, if anything is left on the shelf by closing time then regardless of it's price tag, this would mean that the "free market" finds it worthless.

In all formats sellers have always tried to "weight the transaction" in their favor. That's capitalism at work.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Too_Many_Tools
07-04-2010, 09:32 PM
You do sound bitter. You must have had some trouble sometime on an auction. Out of deference to you, I think I'll start using reserves again on my auctions. :)

You don't like being insulted and I don't like having everything I say contradicted for no reason.

Not bitter...just honest. ;<)

Do what you wish with your auctions...it is your stuff to sell and my money to spend...that is if the "right" auction comes along.

And that "right" auction won't have a reserve. ;<)

Good luck with your efforts in this recession where cash is king.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
07-04-2010, 09:43 PM
Well, since you want to put those rules in place. Let's take all the price tags off of all the merchandise the next time you walk into any store. After all, those are just "reserves" put in place by those fearful sellers to weigh the transaction in their favor.

And going by what you are saying, if anything is left on the shelf by closing time then regardless of it's price tag, this would mean that the "free market" finds it worthless.

In all formats sellers have always tried to "weight the transaction" in their favor. That's capitalism at work.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I rarely pay what the retailer intially wants.

Smart buyers rarely do.

The way capitalism works is that sellers TRY to get the MOST they can while buyers TRY to pay the LEAST they can.

As to the original subject Ebay Buy It Nevers, sellers are hiding behind Buy It Nevers in an attempt to shore up prices in a deflationary economy...and buyers are sitting on their wallets waiting for prices to fall..as they will.

As I said, I have ceased spending money on Ebay with their silly Buy It Nevers since I can and do go to other selling venues and get better value for my dollars. I am not alone in this exodus from Ebay.

TMT

D_Harris
07-05-2010, 12:08 AM
I rarely pay what the retailer intially wants.

Smart buyers rarely do.

The way capitalism works is that sellers TRY to get the MOST they can while buyers TRY to pay the LEAST they can.

As to the original subject Ebay Buy It Nevers, sellers are hiding behind Buy It Nevers in an attempt to shore up prices in a deflationary economy...and buyers are sitting on their wallets waiting for prices to fall..as they will.

As I said, I have ceased spending money on Ebay with their silly Buy It Nevers since I can and do go to other selling venues and get better value for my dollars. I am not alone in this exodus from Ebay.

TMT

Ok, perhaps where you live it is different, but the barter system is not in effect over here. When I walk into a super market or any store I have no choice but to pay retail.

As far as the exodus from eBay, Perhaps it is the high fees they charge along with all the system "improvements" that make the buying and selling experience worse with each change.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

gnm109
07-05-2010, 01:36 AM
Is it a fact that there is a mass exodus from eBay by account holders? Does anyone have a link showing this to be a fact? I've heard people speak about this but I'd like to see some data.

I've been on eBay since 2000 and my only complaint is that the fees have gone up for sellers. I don't sell much anymore but when I buy, I don't seem to have any trouble.

If everybody leaves, maybe it will be easier for the rest of us who aren't leaving. Ya think?

squirrel
07-05-2010, 10:06 AM
Ok, perhaps where you live it is different, but the barter system is not in effect over here. When I walk into a super market or any store I have no choice but to pay retail.

As far as the exodus from eBay, Perhaps it is the high fees they charge along with all the system "improvements" that make the buying and selling experience worse with each change.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
You are correct on that, its more policy BS that prompted our own website. When they removed the sellers ability to leave negative feedback for buyers that was the motivator for us.

Farbmeister
07-06-2010, 06:45 AM
TMT is trying to cherry pick the best (or worst) or each market system to his own advantage.

I don't know where hes from, but YES, some parts of the world haggling (not bartering) is expected and essential. While that definitely falls into the 'free market' it generally is not widely used in the USA. Although it never hurts to ask a manager for a 10% 'Managers Discount' the odds of getting one are less than even.

Most US retailers ave gone to great lengths to determine a price that cover costs and provides profits for the future. 40% of a business plan is figuring costs and the other 50% is marketing, with 10% fluff.

Back to e-bay.. reserves are a vital part of an items value. If you sell a rare X and its won for $0.99 then the next rare X's value is compromised.. past selling prices can dramatically affect valuation (look at housing prices... the cost of other houses on the street has a very strong influence on the value of the house for sale).

If you don't like the price, then pass. As one guy stated all the pissing and moaning about price simply means that you want it but cannot afford it, or need it and cannot wait. Neither of those issues are a sellers problem.

gnm109
07-06-2010, 09:56 AM
TMT is trying to cherry pick the best (or worst) or each market system to his own advantage.

I don't know where hes from, but YES, some parts of the world haggling (not bartering) is expected and essential. While that definitely falls into the 'free market' it generally is not widely used in the USA. Although it never hurts to ask a manager for a 10% 'Managers Discount' the odds of getting one are less than even.

Most US retailers ave gone to great lengths to determine a price that cover costs and provides profits for the future. 40% of a business plan is figuring costs and the other 50% is marketing, with 10% fluff.

Back to e-bay.. reserves are a vital part of an items value. If you sell a rare X and its won for $0.99 then the next rare X's value is compromised.. past selling prices can dramatically affect valuation (look at housing prices... the cost of other houses on the street has a very strong influence on the value of the house for sale).

If you don't like the price, then pass. As one guy stated all the pissing and moaning about price simply means that you want it but cannot afford it, or need it and cannot wait. Neither of those issues are a sellers problem.


Quite right. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there are some items, usually collectibles, that have a known price. Selling them at auction might have great risk if there were no reserve set.

Take a look at the Christie's Auction site. Many of the valuables sold there will have reserves set. It simply means that the owner will not take less. If it sells for reserve or more, fine. If not, then he takes it home to wait for another day.

I'm mainly interested in musical instruments and have been collecting (and playing them) for more than 40 years. While I don't often bid, I do watch the auctions. Within the past year, Roy Rogers' 1930 OM-45 C.F. Martin guitar, the one he played with the Sons of the Pioneers and elsewhere was put up for auction at Christies. It sold for $375 plus the buyer's premium, a total of more than $400,000.

I don't recall the exact reserve that was set. It might have been around $100,000. This shows that when an item has a wide appeal among collectors, a reserve makes absolutely no difference.

His other personal items from his museum, including his Horse, Trigger (stuffed it was) are also going up at Chiristies. Should they list that at 99 cents to make the bidders feel good?

I only use a reserve when I know that something is unique. So what? If you don't like a reserve, don't bid. No harm, no fault. No sense carping and bitching about what someone else does with their own, rightfully bought property.

squirrel
07-06-2010, 09:57 AM
If you don't like the price, then pass. As one guy stated all the pissing and moaning about price simply means that you want it but cannot afford it, or need it and cannot wait. Neither of those issues are a sellers problem.
You are 100% correct on that, your statement brought back memories when we switched over from all .99 NO RESERVE auctions to fixed price. We had over 25 NASTY EMAILS telling us how dare we go to fixed price and its "their right to buy at auction" and we will never buy from you again, we even had a few morons actually call the office and yell my staff and tell us how dare we do that, I was shocked. One of the guys was pretty decent and said he was buying from us for years and reselling it on the PM site and eBay and would hope that we would go back to the auction format.

gnm109
07-06-2010, 10:12 AM
You are 100% correct on that, your statement brought back memories when we switched over from all .99 NO RESERVE auctions to fixed price. We had over 25 NASTY EMAILS telling us how dare we go to fixed price and its "their right to buy at auction" and we will never buy from you again, we even had a few morons actually call the office and yell my staff and tell us how dare we do that, I was shocked. One of the guys was pretty decent and said he was buying from us for years and reselling it on the PM site and eBay and would hope that we would go back to the auction format.


No bidder has any such rights over your property. The owner has all right, title and interest in his or her personal property. Until the sale is complete title to said property does not pass. Then, when the item is received by the happy new buyer, he or she can do anything they wish with it, including selling it at reserve or maybe burning it.

D_Harris
07-06-2010, 08:35 PM
That can of Pork n' Beans on the supermarket shelf has a reserve price on it. But I'm sure they'll take more if you give it to them. :D

I decided to cancel my initial auction, which had no reserve, but did have a "Buy-It-Now".

It now has a reserve and no "But-It-Now.

There is one bid at this time and I don't care if it goes no higher. :D

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140423535581

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

JCHannum
07-06-2010, 08:42 PM
I find as often as not that when I list an auction with the BIN option, people will bid it up past what the original BIN price was.

I will say that eBay sales are usually sluggish this time of the year, but they seem to be more so this year than previously.

squirrel
07-06-2010, 09:02 PM
I find as often as not that when I list an auction with the BIN option, people will bid it up past what the original BIN price was.

I will say that eBay sales are usually sluggish this time of the year, but they seem to be more so this year than previously.They are down considerably, when they dumped all the "eBay store" items into core search & category sections it is now like wee-wee-ing in the ocean. The lathe section went from average 800 listings to over 4500, too many for any one to browse. Now buyers are overwhelmed with cheap crap that did not sell and was "hidden" in the eBay store. The only reason it was listed was due to the low .10 cent fee per month, so who cares if it would sell. Sellers that optimized inventory and paid the higher listing fees are now lost in the sea of junk. Our sales dropped 65% within a couple of days of the change and they are still holding at about 45% down.......Seasonal drop would only be in single digits, even in 2008

Farbmeister
07-07-2010, 11:59 AM
I'd really like to know where he lives... the 'I rarely pay listed price' or whatever it was bears some explanation. Commodities are generally not negotiable. Luxury items somewhat.

Every now and again there are some locals that simply are easier to deal with by giving them a nickle off a can of soup than listen to them blather on about prices. When I ran my business you would not believe how much 'good will' can be bought by reducing the price $1. But not for everyone. That adds up to thousands very quickly.

I guess if you go to an actual MARKET for food you can haggle... but I have better things to do that try and talk down an extra quarter off some banana's or beef.

squirrel
07-07-2010, 03:43 PM
I'd really like to know where he lives... the 'I rarely pay listed price' or whatever it was bears some explanation. Commodities are generally not negotiable. Luxury items somewhat.

Every now and again there are some locals that simply are easier to deal with by giving them a nickle off a can of soup than listen to them blather on about prices. When I ran my business you would not believe how much 'good will' can be bought by reducing the price $1. But not for everyone. That adds up to thousands very quickly.

I guess if you go to an actual MARKET for food you can haggle... but I have better things to do that try and talk down an extra quarter off some banana's or beef.
I was wondering about that too. The great deal was the $20% off new when Haas had the big blow out sale last year and we picked up a VMC. Wish I had more money at the time and I would have bought more. Other than that it is full price for Solidworks, Mastercam and all the other items. The other recent good deal is Cabela's, they have a sale going on now for 500 rounds of .223 for $109 and that includes a plastic ammo box.

Mcgyver
07-07-2010, 07:55 PM
Originally Posted by D_Harris
The "BIN's, reserves, premiums and all the other crappola..." are all part of the "free market auction".

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.




Actually they are not.

They are attempts to weight the transaction in the seller's favor.

Wise buyers strive for a level playing field...knowing that it is their money that makes the system work.

Any item is worthless if no one is willing to buy it.

TMT

TMT, Darren is correct; let me explain what a free market. its one where buyer and seller are free to act in their own best and price is set as they may agree vs say a government (marketing board) imposed price/terms. There can be any number of terms and conditions involved, buyer and seller's position are in tension and its expected many buyers and sellers won't reach a deal. It could be a cash transactions for rutabagas in the Casbah or a 100 page supply agreement between two corps - so long as they're agreed to without third party interference they're free market

You've proffered an environment on the other hand where sellers are not free to offer things as they see fit, which is not what a free market is....in your version of a free market sellers can only hit the bid and are never allowed to post an asking price (reserve or whatever you want to call it)? you'd have to sell a Harig fixture for $10 if no one else that day happened to want one? Your thoughts seem only to factor the demand side but it takes supply and demand to make a market

Think of how a stock market, a common (mostly) free market, works. A seller can put an ask out or hit a bid - and is free to put that ask at anything they want. Also, for a great deal of the time a market will sit stalemated between the bid and ask before a side moves, do you thank that disqualifies it as a free market?



Any item is worthless if no one is willing to buy it.

Sort of but time and market exposure factor in. I've had ebay listings expire only to sell them months later for lots of dough - they were hardly worthless on the first go around, just that there was no demand at that time or the market was so narrow the right buyer just hadn't seen it