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Too_Many_Tools
06-21-2010, 10:57 PM
Recently I helped a friend load/unload several machines on/off his trailer.

The loading/unloading process was to say the least an exercise in creativity.

While he had a dock plate to allow the machines to be skidded/rolled on and off the trailer, the differences of an inch or so between the trailer/dock plate made it an interesting effort trying to shim the differences of height.

I would like to SEE what others have to move a machine from a trailer to the floor of their shops...dock plates, end gates, ramps, etc.

Also I would like to see anyone who has a dock at their home shop...another project that I am planning on building this year.

Thanks

TMT

Michael Edwards
06-21-2010, 11:06 PM
Loading a 2800# shaper a few years ago. Not much weight. Steel ramps, pipe rollers and a come-a-long. Piece of cake.

loading pic (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2071/1557786770_141b14d44e_o.jpg)


ME

Ken_Shea
06-22-2010, 12:08 AM
It seems every piece of equipment take a different approach, used, tubing like Micheal, come alongs, forklifts, cherry pickers, dollies, brute force, anything, everything.

No dock here, my biggest plus is the fork lift but that only gets it off the trailer/flat bed, still have to get it inside where there is no room to maneuver any fork lift.

Have out side (covered) awaiting room inside, shaper, surface grinder, and two drill press's. :(

TGTool
06-22-2010, 12:15 AM
Let me down easy,
Let me down slow.
Let me down easy
When it's time to go ...
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/TGTool/P1010186.jpg

Ken_Shea
06-22-2010, 12:24 AM
Let me down easy,
Let me down slow.
Let me down easy
When it's time to go ...


That would qualify as a "Oh Crap" moment!

oldtiffie
06-22-2010, 12:40 AM
I had my last machine delivered on a truck that came with a fork lift on the truck. He was marvelous - knew exactly what was needed done and did it. Put the machine exactly where I wanted it. Cost OZ$300 ~ US$255 - his trip was 2 x 45 Km (say 55 miles). I was not sure that my 1 ton hoist would have the reach or the lift to do it to get it off my trailer. The hoist did it easily once it was on the floor slab.

My days of buggerising around and taking unnecessary risks for the sake of a few $ are long gone.

Easy job.

TGTool
06-22-2010, 12:40 AM
That would qualify as a "Oh Crap" moment!

No, no problem. The winch cable is easing it off with the kind assistance of gravity. Near the bottom it needs to be reared back a little to start the rollers. Once down, the winch cable loops through a pulley to a lally post and starts pulling to head it on over toward the building. Everybody was happy here. If I took pictures of the 3800 lb Milwaukee later taking the same trip I can't seem to find them.

Ken_Shea
06-22-2010, 12:49 AM
No, no problem. The winch cable is easing it off with the kind assistance of gravity. Near the bottom it needs to be reared back a little to start the rollers. Once down, the winch cable loops through a pulley to a lally post and starts pulling to head it on over toward the building. Everybody was happy here. If I took pictures of the 3800 lb Milwaukee later taking the same trip I can't seem to find them.

That's a relief, the picture looks like it was all bent/twisted/broke out of shape, so I thought.

polepenhollow
06-22-2010, 01:40 AM
TGTool
Gravity is a bitch.
Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice, that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Applicable in most Human Interchange.
K Lively

TGTool
06-22-2010, 10:59 AM
That's a relief, the picture looks like it was all bent/twisted/broke out of shape, so I thought.

Well, the fact is the machine has it's problems but they're not immediately apparent. There's a mount for an overhead motor and 4sp gearbox that was connected to the horizontal flat belt drive that's been broken off from a fork lift accident earlier in its life. The Bridgeport head on the overarm is just rotated down for travel and the table is swiveled for no particular reason. The remaining parts of the overhead drive are still on the trailer.

Since getting it unloaded and placed I've repaired several small things, some from the drop and some other machine crashes and poor fixes. The vertical head is now on a VFD and I'm thinking of hanging a DC motor onto the table drive from the horizontal spindle.

Before it could be a horizontal mill again the spindle also needs repair. The original spindle is a B&S taper but it's been smacked so badly at some point there's a lump on the ID. I'm torn between re-establishing it as original and converting to a NMTB40 which there's just about enough material for. Otherwise there's very little wear on the leadscrews though the table has sagged over the years.

Dr Stan
06-22-2010, 11:03 AM
Let me down easy,
Let me down slow.
Let me down easy
When it's time to go ...


Looks familiar to me, and quite safe. You have it well secured and are using gravity as the power source. I purposely built my 6 X 8 heavy duty trailer as a tilt bed for such occasions and it works quite well.

vpt
06-22-2010, 11:12 AM
I use an engine hoist for light machines, use my car hoist for heavy machines.


I have used my car hoist for all kinds of lifting heavy things off of trucks or trailers.

Too_Many_Tools
06-22-2010, 04:32 PM
Loading a 2800# shaper a few years ago. Not much weight. Steel ramps, pipe rollers and a come-a-long. Piece of cake.

loading pic (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2071/1557786770_141b14d44e_o.jpg)


ME

Thanks for the picture.

While this approach does work (it was the same that we just used in shimming, rolling, etc.), it takes a lot of time and the right stuff being present to do the rampping, shimming, height adjusting. In the recent moves I helped with, the machines were from private owners hundreds of miles away where one bought what you thought you might need...but without seeing the actual location one is always guessing. One cannot assume that the seller has any rigging or moving equipment.

And as usual, there is no forklift available at either end of the journey.

Has anyone built a trailer end gate/dock plate that works well as a ramp to offload machines? If so, I would love to see it.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
06-22-2010, 04:38 PM
No, no problem. The winch cable is easing it off with the kind assistance of gravity. Near the bottom it needs to be reared back a little to start the rollers. Once down, the winch cable loops through a pulley to a lally post and starts pulling to head it on over toward the building. Everybody was happy here. If I took pictures of the 3800 lb Milwaukee later taking the same trip I can't seem to find them.

One of the machines I helped move was a small radial drill...and it reached the point that your machine is at it wanted to tip forward (and over) because of its high center of gravity and the relative steepness of the ramp used. Anticipating this, I made sure that I was there as the counterweight to prevent it from doing just that.

Just one more reason why I am looking for a better solution.

TMT

TGTool
06-22-2010, 09:01 PM
One of the machines I helped move was a small radial drill...and it reached the point that your machine is at it wanted to tip forward (and over) because of its high center of gravity and the relative steepness of the ramp used. Anticipating this, I made sure that I was there as the counterweight to prevent it from doing just that.

Just one more reason why I am looking for a better solution.

TMT

You're a bigger man than I am then. I wouldn't trust myself as a counterweight for a radial drill. Still that was probably better than positioning yourself as a stop block on the downside.

You might notice that the mill was belayed above just for that eventuality. The strap can be loosened as needed while the winch is doing the controlled lowering.

Bob Farr
06-22-2010, 09:06 PM
***
I would like to SEE what others have to move a machine from a trailer to the floor of their shops...dock plates, end gates, ramps, etc. *** TMT

I think that the most useful and powerful tool for moving heavy machinery is patience. Then, the right equipment. I've rented a drop-bed trailer from Sunbelt Rentals that drops the whole bed down to 4" off the deck. Easy soll on and off with just pipes and straps. That's a 1,500lb Gorton O-16/A mill in the in the pallett wrap caccoon. I've also moved a 3,000lb Hendey shaper with this trailer:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Millmove4.jpg

Sunbelt also rents a device called a Roll-O-Lift. Basically a small forklift in its own right. A pair get strapped to the machine, then jacked up a few inches and moved as a unit. It was very convenient:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Wadelathe2-1.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Wadelathe3.jpg

Once on the shop floor the machine could be rolled to its resting place by one man. Well worth the investment.

Bob

speedy
06-22-2010, 09:19 PM
I think that the most useful and powerful tool for moving heavy machinery is patience. Then, the right equipment.
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Millmove4.jpg
Sunbelt also rents a device called a Roll-O-Lift. Basically a small forklift in its own right. A pair get strapped to the machine, then jacked up a few inches and moved as a unit. It was very convenient:
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Wadelathe2-1.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Wadelathe3.jpg Bob

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Nice gear Bob. It sure beats the heck out of dropping the wheels off the trailer:) and running on bare rims which I have needed to do in the past. 1, was to get the machine inside the shed, and 2, to get the machine down to a safer level for of unloading.

The Artful Bodger
06-22-2010, 09:53 PM
It sure beats the heck out of dropping the wheels off the trailer:) and running on bare rims which I have needed to do in the past. 1, was to get the machine inside the shed, and 2, to get the machine down to a safer level for of unloading.

Ha ha, have never had to do that but we did once dig holes for the trailer wheels so that the trailer was flat on the ground, worked a treat!

Ken_Shea
06-22-2010, 10:11 PM
Ha ha, have never had to do that but we did once dig holes for the trailer wheels so that the trailer was flat on the ground, worked a treat!

:D :D
That's a new one, heard of flattening tires though to get in under a garage header.

Michael Edwards
06-22-2010, 11:02 PM
Thanks for the picture.

In the recent moves I helped with, the machines were from private owners hundreds of miles away where one bought what you thought you might need...but without seeing the actual location one is always guessing. One cannot assume that the seller has any rigging or moving equipment.
TMT


You described that move to a T. It was over 400 miles each way. I knew I had to bring everything with me. You are also right in that it is slow going. I personally would be willing to pay hansomely to rent one of those drop bed trailers, but there are none around here to rent that I know of.

ME

hornluv
06-22-2010, 11:27 PM
I personally would be willing to pay hansomely to rent one of those drop bed trailers, but there are none around here to rent that I know of.

I rented one to move my mill and it was only $65. Well worth it.

EddyCurr
06-22-2010, 11:37 PM
Sunbelt also rents a device called a Roll-O-Lift. Basically a small forklift
in its own right. A pair get strapped to the machine, then jacked up a few
inches and moved as a unit. It was very convenient:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Wadelathe2-1.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Wadelathe3.jpg

Once on the shop floor the machine could be rolled to its resting place
by one man. Well worth the investment.

BobI have seen a variation of the Roll-O-Lift used to move large vending
machines, but your photos have the first images I recall seeing of a tool
that could move a lathe.

Is there a stated lift capacity?

.

MickeyD
06-23-2010, 12:34 AM
I have been in the middle of moving my shop for the last couple of months and roll-a-lifts are one of the handiest things to use. The heaviest thing that I have moved with them is my Kaltenbach saw at about 2200 pounds and it took about 45 minutes from when I unhooked it from power to having it strapped down on the trailer.

http://austincnc.com/images/rolla1.jpg

http://austincnc.com/images/rolla2.jpg

While the lifts are easy for small things, I did get riggers for the big girls.

http://austincnc.com/images/mv2.jpg

http://austincnc.com/images/mv3.jpg



For big stuff (the Okumas are almost 11K pounds with the 4th mounted on them) a serious forklift and a good operator come in handy.

Rex
06-23-2010, 11:44 AM
I like those Roll-O-Lifts, did not know such a thing existed.
I googled a bit and found no place to buy or rent.
Is there another name or brand?
Plans for making my own?

Dr Stan
06-23-2010, 01:23 PM
I like those Roll-O-Lifts, did not know such a thing existed.
I googled a bit and found no place to buy or rent.
Is there another name or brand?
Plans for making my own?

paste this into Google:

"roll-a-lift": site:craigslist.org

there is a pair posted on CL in Albany, New York. Go here:

http://albany.craigslist.org/tls/1788041149.html

Seems to be a good price given they retail for over $1K a pair. However, looking at the pic it should not be too difficult to reverse engineer these lifts. That said, sometimes its better to buy a welded product (i.e. a receiver) just to avoid the potential liability issues.

Bob Farr
06-23-2010, 01:32 PM
Rex,

MickeyD started a nice thread regarding Roll-A-Lifts a short time ago. There are some detailed pictures in his thread, but no construction plans that I'm aware of:

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=41713

Another option that I've seen is to use what appear to be rolling jacks designed for a trailer tongue. Here's a pisture of them being used on a Monarch 10EE, which isn't a lite machine. I don't know the gent in the picture (I found it on the web, linked in another forum) so I hope he doesn't mind me reusing his picture here. A strong L-shaped bracket bolted to the jack would do the trick:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Monarch10EE1.jpg

Bob Farr
06-23-2010, 02:00 PM
*** I personally would be willing to pay hansomely to rent one of those drop bed trailers, but there are none around here to rent that I know of. ME

Michael,

The drop trailer is GREAT: it eases loading, keeps the center of gravity low (below the frame of the truck), and has a good assortment of strapping points. I don't remember the manufacturer's name but if I find it I'll let you know. Like Hornluv mentioned it was cheap to rent at around $65. The capacity on this single axle unit is 4,500lbs, and a double axle unit is available too. Here it is with a 3,000lb Hendey shaper:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Hendey5.jpg

TMT,

I don't have a picture of this lift with machinery on it, but I have used my motorcycle lift for putting small machinery and other heavy items into the truck. It happens to raise up to bed level so it's pretty easy to slide stuff onto and then lower it down to ground level. The problem is that the lift itself is quite heavy and takes up a lot of space in the bed of the truck:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Lift2.jpg

I've seen larger scissor lifts at the shipping docks of some industrial parks. Perhaps such a unit could be adapted to a trailer axle to create a hybrid lift/trailer setup.

Bob

snowman
06-23-2010, 02:12 PM
I've considered the scissor lift. For me, the bending moment on those arms is too high to really trust a tall heavy machine to move 1 foot downward.

Unloading off the trailer is a process for me. First thing I do is jack the trailer UP. Remove all wheels. Put trailer back down, on frame. Disconnect from truck with jack, now jack tongue up, making whole trailer one large ramp. Not until then do I start to unstrap machine, with support to a comealong or winch to slowly let it off trailer. Then I just do the pipe roller method. It works.

Small vertical distances such as an inch are done with shims. There is an inch difference in the concrete getting into my garage. I now use 1" black pipe as rollers. I get the machine going, slide it into the garage...as long as it makes it two inches, I can again crowbar the front of the machine up and put another roller on it.

Larger vertical distances are done with shims. It's the same as the prior method, only you go up a crowbar lift at a time, shimming along the way, until you are a foot in the air. The first six inches is two timbers that are placed parallel to the direction of travel. This is your new rolling surface for your ramp. Down is the same way.

It's not hard, just take your time and be safe. Some of it may look dangerous, but if you take the time to understand your load and plan each inch, it's pretty safe.

Black_Moons
06-23-2010, 02:37 PM
yep. Shims, lots of blocking, 4' long crowbar, rollers, 2x4's as tracks on soft ground is how I got my lathe/mill into the basement.. given a week or two time and effort :)

Oh, and a really good BRAND NEW tarp with 0 holes to go over it every night, or every time it was a little rainy.

Rex
06-23-2010, 02:40 PM
Dr Stan, thanks for the links. I'll start watching for those.
And thanks for reminding about a great way to search CL nationally.

Bob, I really like that trailer jack setup. I have seen some really HD versions at Northern tool for about $50. I'll be doing some shopping on those too.

I have been eyeballing those lift tables and Mcycle lifts at HF, but have yet to see one like yours. Where did you get it?

Do you guys have a pallet jack? Those things are very useful for moving machinery. I'm currently using mine for a mobile base under the Millrite.
You can buy them used for $50, sometimes less. I may have to get another to put under my lathe ;)

snowman
06-23-2010, 02:52 PM
I HATE pallets.

I brought one machine home on a pallet. It was a major PITA to get it off the pallet. Like 75% of the move was that. I ended up cutting the pallet with a sawzall and removing it piece by piece.

Dr Stan
06-23-2010, 03:12 PM
Bob, I really like that trailer jack setup. I have seen some really HD versions at Northern tool for about $50.

Do you guys have a pallet jack? Those things are very useful for moving machinery. I'm currently using mine for a mobile base under the Millrite.
You can buy them used for $50, sometimes less. I may have to get another to put under my lathe ;)

X2 on the trailer jack set up. Lot's cheaper than the Roll-O-Lift and they would take up much less room.

I have a pallet jack bought used for $50, a HF 1100# cap hydraulic scissor lift cart, and a 2 ton engine hoist. With these I can move everything except my planer, or my wife's opinion. :D So high on my to-do list is an A Frame for my 2 ton chain hoist. Got to have a way to put the table back on the planer. :D

Bill in Ky
06-23-2010, 03:21 PM
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h136/bill-ky/MVC-870S.jpg

Bob Farr
06-23-2010, 03:26 PM
*** Bob, I really like that trailer jack setup. I have seen some really HD versions at Northern tool for about $50. I'll be doing some shopping on those too.

I have been eyeballing those lift tables and Mcycle lifts at HF, but have yet to see one like yours. Where did you get it? ***

I've been asked about the source of my scissor MC lift before and I don't have an answer. I purchased it used and built the ramp and a larger table. I'm sure it's an import setup, maybe an eBay deal, but it's different than the parallelogram setup of the HF unit. It has a 1,000lb capacity, but the scissor design focuses all of that weight in the center: it has a "balancing on a head of a pin" kind of feel sometimes. It's plenty stable for working on the bike once lifted up, but I don't move it around without lowering the table first. Handy Industries makes a much nicer and more stable bike lift, even if it is the scissor style: http://www.handyindustries.com/

I don't use the bike lift as my primary load/unload device and wouldn't buy one for that purpose if I didn't also have a motorcycle. But I already had it and it does come in handy for sliding smaller machines (i.e., Atlas/Craftsman 12" lathe) into the truck. I have a cherry picker that is also useful for such jobs. For heavy machines I think the low CG of the drop trailer and the Roll-O-Lifts or steel bars are the perfect team. I'm very lucky to have all of that moving equipment available to me nearby at the local equipment rental place. If I wasn't so lucky I would fab up a set of those rolling trailer jacks and then build some adjustable/stepped wooden cribbing as needed to adapting to various shaped machines. Flat sided cabinets are easy to strap the Roll-O-Lifts to, but other machines would take some shimming between the lifts and the machine column to make everything stable.

Bob

Rex
06-23-2010, 03:27 PM
Snowman - no pallets, just the pallet jack. A mill base sits nicely on one, no pallet required.

Dr. Stan, every time I look at those lift tables, none looks like someonthing I'd trust under 1500 lbs of iron. All the motorcycle lifts I've seen are long and narrow, or else much more expensive. Yours looks like a HD lift table.

Bill - You suck! <G>

My moving equipment consists of a 2-ton foldup engine hoist, a chainfall at the peak of the shop roof, and a smaller one on one side, the pallet jack, and a very stout steel work table on casters, that is about 40" square and 20" high. A lift table is on my list when I find one suitable. Also a narrower pallet jack.

I used my little 2-wheel trailer made for a formula car to haul my mill home. It worked real well.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/rburkheimer/Loading2.jpghttp://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/rburkheimer/RexsMillrite.jpg

Bob Farr
06-23-2010, 03:29 PM
Showoff! And yes, I'm jealous! :)


http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h136/bill-ky/MVC-870S.jpg

A.K. Boomer
06-23-2010, 03:29 PM
Is it just me or does that look spooky to anyone else;)

I had my mills base hanging by a cheep chinese come-along and it didn't look too comfortable -- but what else you going to lift a chinese mill with?

Forestgnome
06-23-2010, 03:59 PM
Lift lathe with cherry picker, drive U-haul motorcycle trailer out from under it. Roll into garage on pieces of black pipe.

derekm
06-23-2010, 04:37 PM
Let me down easy,
Let me down slow.
Let me down easy
When it's time to go ...
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/TGTool/P1010186.jpg
Done exactly this. Get it down the ramp so that the leading edge of the mill digs in just off the ramp. Then edge the trailer away easing the winch wire as you go.
Easy, but scary the first time

Dr Stan
06-23-2010, 04:40 PM
Dr. Stan, every time I look at those lift tables, none looks like someonthing I'd trust under 1500 lbs of iron.

Bill - You suck! <G>



You're correct and I got it primarily for heavy vices and the like, especially since "Arthur" took up residence in my lower back. I does move my 9" SB lathe and 7" Atlas shaper quite nicely however.

X2 on Bill :D

On 2nd thought wonder if he's close by.

Stuart Br
06-23-2010, 06:07 PM
This was the start of my shop. The guys I bought the lathe from did all the moving. 1250lb of lathe. Pretty hefty hoist used.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af182/StuartBrid/colchester-003new.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af182/StuartBrid/colchester-004new.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af182/StuartBrid/colchester-005new.jpg

Too_Many_Tools
06-23-2010, 09:55 PM
You're a bigger man than I am then. I wouldn't trust myself as a counterweight for a radial drill. Still that was probably better than positioning yourself as a stop block on the downside.

You might notice that the mill was belayed above just for that eventuality. The strap can be loosened as needed while the winch is doing the controlled lowering.

I had the radial drill forward/vertical motion checked with safety ropes anticipating its tipping.

Knowing that it would do just that I made sure that I was at the right spot at the right time.

Without those ropes/my weight it would have tipped over in a blink of an eye when it reached the end of the inclined ramp.

I just *hate* moving high COG machines like bandsaws, drill presses, hydraulic presses where the majority of the mass is set high on an unstable frame....I swear that they want to flip over just by looking at them. Years ago when I was younger and much dumber I strapped a Powermatic 20" bandsaw onto a friend's small pickup with bad shocks...I still remember the pickup dancing all over the road as we hit every damn bump in the road...one scary ride to my house. Then my friend drove the last three miles to his house...but first he just HAD to stop and use the drive through at McDonalds..whose overhang was lower than the loaded bandsaw was high.

You can imagine what happened. ;<)

The bandsaw hit the overhang, broke loose its tiedowns, fell backwards taking with it his pickup tailgate...and the hood of the car behind him.

They are right when they say McDonalds can be hazardous to your health.

TMT

n2666s
12-25-2010, 03:17 PM
Key is "right equipment"...love those hydraulic drop down trailers; have used them in the past made by JPG, you fellows are lucky; here in Alabama the reply from the Sunbelt peeps in Birmingham was<huhhhh> never heard of either one!! same with other tool rental places in the area after about a dozen calls<grrrrrrrrrrr>:mad:

Lou

for moving heavy machinery is patience. Then, the right equipment. I've rented a drop-bed trailer from Sunbelt Rentals that drops the whole bed down to 4" off the deck. Easy soll on and off with just pipes and straps. That's a 1,500lb Gorton O-16/A mill in the in the pallett wrap caccoon. I've also moved a 3,000lb Hendey shaper with this trailer:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Millmove4.jpg

Sunbelt also rents a device called a Roll-O-Lift. Basically a small forklift in its own right. A pair get strapped to the machine, then jacked up a few inches and moved as a unit. It was very convenient:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Wadelathe2-1.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/frankenglide/Wadelathe3.jpg

Once on the shop floor the machine could be rolled to its resting place by one man. Well worth the investment.

Bob[/QUOTE]