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Boucher
06-30-2010, 02:48 PM
When I was in business I had a prominent sign in the shop that said, “We don’t loan tools. Don’t ask”

For those that did ask we just pointed to the sign and kept on with what we were doing.

It is amazing how many times when you loan tools you have to go get them back. Then there is the type that brings them back broken. That happened this morning. Loaned a friend (maybe ex-friend) a 3/4 –10 tap. I guess he dropped it on the floor. It now has a pretty good chunk broken out of the end of one flute. In my work this size was pretty common and I had several in that size so in one sense it was no big deal. It still gripes me.

Evan
06-30-2010, 02:55 PM
I do not loan tools.

gnm109
06-30-2010, 02:58 PM
Years ago, my neighbor came over one afternoon and wanted to borrow "some C clamps". I let him have two 6" C clamps. He thanked me and left.

For the ensuing 6 months, I asked him no less than 10 times to bring back the C clamps. Each time he said, OK, he would get them back to me "tomorrrow".

Finally, in frustration, I went across the road and asked him to give me the clamps "now". I could hardly believe my eyes when I saw that he had been using them to hold his steel shelves together in his garage.

Another neighbor "borrowed" my 20 foot extension ladder. I sort of forgot about it and he did finally bring it back. I only had to ask him once. The bad part was that it was covered with white paint for about the top five feet.

I don't lend tools to anyone anymore. :mad:

brian Rupnow
06-30-2010, 03:06 PM
The same concerns could be expressed over borrowing tools. I very seldom damage any of MY tools. Most of them I've had for many, many years. However, I haven't always had the money that comes from working for 45 years, and when I was younger, I did borrow other peoples tools. And invariably, the damn things would break when I was using them. Then I would end up having to buy a new tool to replace whatever I broke, then give it back to the fellow I had borrowed the tool from, and keep the broken one to see if I could repair it and get it working good enough to keep for myself!!! It wasn't too long before I realized that this was not a particularly intelligent way to do business.---Brian

gnm109
06-30-2010, 03:08 PM
The same concerns could be expressed over borrowing tools. I very seldom damage any of MY tools. Most of them I've had for many, many years. However, I haven't always had the money that comes from working for 45 years, and when I was younger, I did borrow other peoples tools. And invariably, the damn things would break when I was using them. Then I would end up having to buy a new tool to replace whatever I broke, then give it back to the fellow I had borrowed the tool from, and keep the broken one to see if I could repair it and get it working good enough to keep for myself!!! It wasn't too long before I realized that this was not a particularly intelligent way to do business.---Brian


I don't borrow tools either. I just buy what I need. Sooner or later, you will need the same tool again.

BadDog
06-30-2010, 03:12 PM
I've had exactly the same experience as Brian, with the same conclusion. "Neither a borrower or lender be". There have been a very few exceptions, but that's my general philosophy.

Alistair Hosie
06-30-2010, 03:23 PM
In my book lenders should teach bortrowers that asking for tools is just as bad as asking for money.Lesson learned ?Hopefully. Does anyone here get those tools free? I think not.Alistair

Pherdie
06-30-2010, 03:45 PM
I'm both a borrower and lender of tools, to a select number of highly trusted people I can easily count using the fingers on one hand. Everyone else gets, "No tools loaned."

I feel that many of the the tools I have accumulated over the years are somewhat irreplaceable due to unique function or just plain superior quality, especially when compared to what is available in today's tool market.

Then there's the tool with just plain sentimental value like my 50+ year old Stanley hammer I bought as a young boy (my first tool). It's gone through life with me, first building the projects of a small boy, then the needs of a teen and later the projects of an adult. The very home I live in was built (in part) with that same hammer. Little did I know when I purchased it, the power and value I would receive.

P.S. DoctorDemo, I still owe you two collets!! :)

uncle pete
06-30-2010, 04:19 PM
I know a very few select people that I wouldn't hesitate to lend every single one of my tools to, As I have no doubt they would respect and treat the tools as I would. Unfortunatly they live anywhere from 300,or 1500-3000 miles away. The people that live around me? I could be using the very tool their asking to borrow and I'd tell em I don't own one. Usually they don't bother me after that. Just because mankind is known as a tool using species doesn't mean ALL of that species should be trusted to use or borrow tools.

Pete

Frank Ford
06-30-2010, 04:30 PM
Worthy friends are one of life's greatest treasures. And, for sure, I don't hesitate to lend tools to friends. I can't recall any friend who became a habitual borrower, but sometimes things get broken. Life (mine anyway) is too short to dwell on the disappointments, so I refuse to allow a bad experience change the way I live my life.

At my shop, we work with a very high level of trust in our employees, and generally that trust is rewarded. Once, a few years ago, one employee embezzled well over $10,000. People expected us to tighten up after that, but we didn't because to do so would be to let that one episode change our life. I refuse to allow that guy to have such power over me.

If I borrow a tool and lose or damage it, I'd expect to replace it without hesitation, and I believe my friends would do the same.

Your Old Dog
06-30-2010, 04:34 PM
I'm taking all this in and processing it. I'm still waiting for Sir John to weigh in on the topic. I'm just assuming if he didn't loan out the occasional tool he'd have no floor to stand on.

oldbikerdude37
06-30-2010, 04:39 PM
I'm both a borrower and lender of tools, to a select number of highly trusted people I can easily count using the fingers on one hand. Everyone else gets, "No tools loaned."



Same here , tools dont need to sit around dusty if they are needed. if my buddie breaks a tool he gets to buy the new one within reason, some old tap thats a bit dull but is fine to chase a hole then its no loss.

some shops will rent a tool like a mag drill oir portable welder. Just ask for a credit card and check it out, if the tool dont come back they buy it.

Evan
06-30-2010, 04:41 PM
For the very few people that make up our closest neighbours instead of loaning tools I will either tell them to bring over the item and I will fix it, or I will make them a part or I will go over and fix it for them.

It isn't about trust. It is about having the tool when I need it.

Ries
06-30-2010, 04:48 PM
I am with Frank on this one- my friends are more important to me than small tools, and my big tools are too heavy to lend out.

I have duplicates and triplicates of most common tools anyway- a side effect of having had, off and on, 1-3 employees in the shop for 25 years. So there is almost always a tool available for lending that I wont really miss if it doesnt come back.

But more often than loaning stuff, I just fix things for people. Either in my shop, or at their place. Usually, the level of knowledge and tools needed are more than a simple borrowing can accomplish anyway.

I am sure I have had a few tools go out and never come back- but I cannot think of one of em- which tells you how important they must have been.

Much more irritating, to me, is what the heck happened to that Blackbird CD that I still have the empty case for...

But in the end, its all only stuff, and I am merely a temporary caretaker for any of it- all too soon, I will be gone, and somebody else will have to worry about it.

Arcane
06-30-2010, 04:49 PM
It isn't just tools. I have a car dolly that I used to use frequently, but due to circumstances, it sits most of the time now. Last two times I lent it out it was nothing but grief. First time the fools didn't know how to use a ratcheting tie down properly and the webbing broke! That let the one wheel pull off the dolly and torqued the drawbar off center. At least they returned it fairly soon with a new strap.
http://c0000368.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/wheel-net-car-tie-down-twisted-snap-hook-adj-ratchet-MED.jpg
Last time I lent it out, the guy never returned it for months. I dropped a few "hints" that I'd like it returned, but he didn't think it was worth his time I guess. Then last fall I finally told him to return it. He said he would...but come spring still no dolly. When I called him up he knew what I was calling for and didn't screw around anymore and returned it right away. Trouble was it came back severely beat up! The drawbar was torqued way out of shape, looked like he tried to back it up and jackknifed it badly. The self contained loading ramps look like they seen a hell of a lot more miles of gravel road than what should have been put on them considering what and where he said he was towing. Then when he did bring it back, he pushed it up tight against my aluminum clad garage door and dented that! I'm right T'eed off at him.
There are people who I don't mind lending tools to, but I am tired of the dumb a**es who do not respect the tool and apparently do not appreciate the zero cost to them of borrowing what cost me a pretty penny. My future loan outs are definitely going to be much less than in the past.

saltmine
06-30-2010, 04:57 PM
After a career lasting almost half a century, I learned a few things about borrowing and lending tools.

When I was first starting out, I tried not to borrow a tool. If I had to borrow it more than twice, I needed to buy my own. I always tried to return the tool clean, and hopefully, in as good a shape as it was before I borrowed it.
God forbid, if I broke a tool, I would immediately 'fess up to it, and promise to get a replacement. Replacement tools HAD to be of equal or better quality than the original. (Yeah, you don't break a guy's Starret 1" mic and replace it with a $12 HF cheapie).

After a while, I was the one lending tools. Same rules applied.

Unfortunately, while working in a dealer shop, I had a trainee. I sat him down and explained the "tool rules"....He had a hard time getting it through his head that the dealer didn't supply all of the tools. How this kid managed it is beyond me, but he borrowed a 3/8" drive, Snap-on torque wrench....and broke it. I had to send it in to the Snap-on Repair Facility to get it fixed. The kid didn't think he should have to pay for repairs...."cheap tools" ya know.
The torque wrench eventually came back, repaired. The total bill was close to $100. The kid refused to pay for it. He said I should have thrown it away, and get one at "Home Depot" or "Pep Boys"...where a new one would have cost less than it did to repair the Snap-on wrench. I just smiled, and said, "My tools, My rules."
I trained a number of young guys, but this one was almost impossible. Strange, after costing me a couple of hundred dollars in mistakes and come-backs, he quit, and nobody knew where he went. About two years later, a friend told me he was working at a big Honda dealer in Los Angeles.
And.....They think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread(???) So, I guess you never know.

One kid, at the dealer, kept borrowing tools from me...almost on a daily basis. I told him that if he needed to borrow a tool more than twice, he should buy his own. He gave me a quizical look and said," Why should I go out and buy tools if I can borrow them from you....for free?" Needless to say, I NEVER lent him a tool again.

Even today, if somebody borrows a tool, I usually have to go hunt him down, to get it back.
I lent a depth mic to a friend recently. After months, he still had not returned it. I got ahold of him. "Why are you in such a hurry to get it back? You're retired, aren't you?"......Yes, I'm retired, but I'd still like to have my tools.
He brought the mic back, all in a huff, upset because I "got on his case" for not bringing it back.
Of course, if you don't hunt them down, they eventually decide the tool is theirs...and God help you if you try to take it back.
I had one guy, years ago, who borrowed a rather expensive set of pullers.
I finally got tired of asking him when he was going to bring them back, and dropped by for a visit. His wife told me she remembered the puller set, and that her husband had sold the whole set at a swap meet, cabinet and all.
He still owes me $960 for the pullers.
Another guy let me store my tools at his house, temporarily. Strange how a lot of my tools migrated from my toolbox into his.... And some of MY tools were lost, usually left in somebody's car he had been working on....not to mention the tools he lent to his neighbors....not his tools, MINE. Well, I eventually got back almost all of my tools...Lesson learned...

Weston Bye
06-30-2010, 05:00 PM
I think I have related this here before.

My most loaned tool has turned out to be my backup generator. I can't refuse a friend or relative in their hour of need, but I always ask how much a month they pay for cable service or some similar excess. After they tell me, I do a rough calculation and tell them that a new generator of their own would only cost them X months of doing without cable service, and mention that I do without cable. I also warn them that the next power outage might affect me, or some other friend or relative, as well as them, and the generator might not be available. Some have taken the hint and got their own generator.

MuellerNick
06-30-2010, 05:53 PM
It depends!
There are some I can trust and I get my tool back. If they break it, they'll replace it. If I need back it right now, I call them and they will jump in their car. They can have my tools, but they seldomly ask. Because they do have the same respect and attitude.

For some time, I had been floor laying. I was at a customer and cut the wood and installed it. Then, I heard a familiar sound ... that's my jig saw!? I looked around, it wasn't in my room. In the next room, some jerks were working with MY jigsaw without asking me. I have no problem helping someone by lending something to him for a moment or making his work if it takes a few minutes. Maybe they forgot to bring along their tool or it broke. But I get INCREDIBLY pissed if someone uses my tools without asking. So 3 seconds later, they were without my saw and me jelling at them (the were two, I was alone). They had to leave and buy their own saw. Cost them two hours + the saw. Maybe they learned their lesson?


Nick

laddy
06-30-2010, 05:56 PM
Lent a posthole digger to a guy three doors up the street. After three years I told him I wanted my posthole digger back. His reply " I have'nt used it yet" I told him I don't care I want it back. Now! I never lend tools! Fred

terry_g
06-30-2010, 06:15 PM
A place I used to work charged a deposit on borrowed tools and refunded it when the tool was returned. Our most loaned tools were 1" drive impact sockets and shop manuals.

Terry

Forestgnome
06-30-2010, 06:16 PM
When I loan a tool I mentally prepare for damage when I hand it over. That way when it comes back undamaged it's a nice surprise!

MuellerNick
06-30-2010, 06:25 PM
That way when it comes back undamaged it's a nice surprise!

That's kind of how I made it at school. Our grades are from 1 (best) to 6 (worst). After a test, I expected a 5 or a 6 and was happy when I got a 4.
My parents thought different though. :confused:


Nick

Bill736
06-30-2010, 06:31 PM
Lending tools to neighbors falls into the same category as doing free favors for neighbors; it seldom worked out well. I've reduced my favors/lending episodes to a single neighbor, who seems to understand the concept of give and take.

Dr Stan
06-30-2010, 06:32 PM
Like many others who have posted in this thread loaning or borrowing tools has resulted in bad experiences. Therefore, I too am very selective to whom I will loan a tool, including my wife (she's very bad about bringing stuff back).

I'm also reluctant to borrow a tool. I'll rent what I need, make one, look for a good used tool, or find one on sale if it comes to the point I absolutely must have it. The last resort is to pay full retail. :eek:

Black_Moons
06-30-2010, 06:32 PM
I'll loan tools. I just won't let them leave the property, And they have to be put back where they belong at the end of the use. Also, you brake it you bought it.

Infact, I pertty much sublet my tools to someone living with me repairing his RV. Of course it helps that generaly too busy to use my tools.

Any other 'lend a tools' are 'Here, Have this beat up spare I don't need anymore and was looking for someone to give it away to'

jb-mck
06-30-2010, 07:12 PM
I have a bad habit of loaning out my tools, but have gotten better over the years. My wife teases me because I stencil my name on everything. Shovels, ladders, ice chest, you name it. I now have a "loaner" set of tools that I accumulated after upgrading, so when sombody wants to borrow something, they get the old one. I do have a few select friends that are welcome to anything in my shop. If I made my living with my tools, I would have to say "hands off".

The Artful Bodger
06-30-2010, 07:17 PM
I sometimes lend tools and I have never been let down by the borrower but I rarely borrow tools.

An exception was an old concrete mixer I borrowed and did a lot of work with, when I had finished the motor had squeaking bearings, the bowl was well rusted and the pinion was worn out. I fixed it up good and returned it to the owner and from then on there has been a joke in our circle that if you want something fixed just lend it to me.

Dunc
06-30-2010, 08:48 PM
Wonder if some lawyer is going to make a case if someone you loan a tool to is injured by his/her stupidity/ignorance or whatever?

lakeside53
06-30-2010, 10:22 PM
I sometimes lend tools and I have never been let down by the borrower but I rarely borrow tools.

An exception was an old concrete mixer I borrowed and did a lot of work with, when I had finished the motor had squeaking bearings, the bowl was well rusted and the pinion was worn out. I fixed it up good and returned it to the owner and from then on there has been a joke in our circle that if you want something fixed just lend it to me.

HA! That's what my friends and neighbors say about me...

I lend to a few close friends... If it's "the only one", I tell them when I need it back. Good friends don't let you down. I have another problem - in addition to a machine and woodwork shop, I have a large collection of pro chainsaws and associated equipment. Lend big saws? - never... Smaller - sometimes... Much of the time I go over and fell/trim for them...

bborr01
06-30-2010, 11:13 PM
Many years ago a friend of mine used to borrow my oxy acetylene torch.

Sometimes to fix other peoples cars for profit.

He never, ever offered to pay for gas or anything.

He seemed to figure that I had more money than him so I should share the wealth.

He had a car hauler trailer though.

One day I asked him if I could borrow his trailer.

He smirked and said "its for rent".

I asked how much.

$20 for an afternoon.

I paid him and did my hauling.

The next time he asked to borrow my torch, I told him "its for rent".

He was shocked. But he paid me the measly $5 I asked for. Then he bought his own torch.

Later, when he was going through a divorce and needed cash real bad, he asked me if I wanted to buy his trailer.

I bought it for a pretty good price.

I still loan him things for free and I am pretty sure that he would loan me anything for free if I needed it.

I rarely borrow or loan out my tools.

It seems to me that most people don't take as good of care of others property as the owner does.

Brian

Too_Many_Tools
06-30-2010, 11:20 PM
If you think you want to loan your tools out, first loan your wife out for the night and see how you like those results.

TMT

J Tiers
06-30-2010, 11:22 PM
The only way I loan tools is with the tool operator attached.... me.....

PeteF
07-01-2010, 12:10 AM
I very VERY rarely borrow tools, but in the few instances I have it's really helped me out of a pickle. However I have absolutely no problem at all in lending my tools, indeed when I hear of somebody doing a job that I know I have the specific tools for, I offer it to them without question.

vpt
07-01-2010, 12:12 AM
My tools never leave my garage.

Greg Q
07-01-2010, 12:40 AM
I am lucky enough to have a few good friends who treat me (and hence my tools) with respect. It's mutual of course, and the rare cases where things are lent or borrowed have been worry free.

I have had a couple of guys over the years that proved otherwise. I wonder where they borrow their tools now?

boslab
07-01-2010, 02:21 AM
maybee the sign should read, "I'll lend you the tools if you lend me the money it cost to buy them, so that i can after you dissapear, most good tool suppliers do this too, its called buying them"
I like p..s of too, it works
mark

fredf
07-01-2010, 02:44 AM
Then there is family. Just about weekly I go to use one tool or another and its at my son's house -- 30 miles away. . . .

Black Forest
07-01-2010, 03:02 AM
The only tools I will lend are the tools that the borrower can easily buy the exact replacement. I always tell my friends "if you break it you bought it".

I am with Evan, most times I tell them to bring what ever they are needing the tool to fix. I will help them fix it.

I don't borrow tools or anything or anything else, not even money from a bank.

Walter
07-01-2010, 04:49 AM
As a general rule I do not loan tools out. Those that work closely with me are welcome to use them, but others get a hand slap and told to go away for so much as reaching for a tape measure in my box.

Yesterday, a tool was loaned to someone at work by another someone, not my tool, nor was it loaned to me. The loaner asked me late in the day where the tool was... I told him as nicely as possible to speak to the person he loaned the tool too. I then went and retrieved the tool itself from where it was left laying and returned it to the loaner with the suggestion that he hold the loanee accountable and not loan tools any longer. Some people just never learn.

The loanee had originally come to me for the tool, and as I've become fond of saying, and was told; "There might be one of those over in Maintainance...".

John Stevenson
07-01-2010, 05:13 AM
Round here there are 4 small engineering companies, all do different work and have different customer bases.
This makes it so that none are competitive and so it's possible to borrow and lend freely between each other.

It also helps that we all have different work in that one will keep tools the others don't.

One is a high value CNC company anything they need they can have but often for just a one off they will borrow.

I have loads of oddball taps and dies and often get to loan these out, they are well looked after and used by people who appreciate tools.

I had to go borrow a 13mm ER32 collet the other day, for some reason from a cupboard full of collets I didn't have one, I can get one next day, in fact I ordered two, but next day isn't today and the CNC company have a wall rack full of ER collets from 16 up to 40.

J Tiers
07-01-2010, 08:40 AM
I should modify my statement...... There have been some folks I WILL and HAVE done tool loans to.

About 4 or 5.

Most of the reason I don't loan them is because most of the people I would loan to, already have the tool, and the others don't know how to use it.

oldtiffie
07-01-2010, 09:44 AM
"................... Never a lender or a borrower be ............. "
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&source=hp&q=never+a+lender+nor+a+borrower+be&aq=0&aqi=g3&aql=&oq=never+a+lender&gs_rfai=&fp=9ae97ca88fbf34c0

gaston
07-01-2010, 10:20 AM
as a child I used and lost many of my dads tools, as a apprentice I "borrowed" from my Journeyman with the rule "when the tool truck comes you buy one" as a journeyman I had the same rule. As I developed the skills of my trade I realized how personal some tools are. (NEVER ask a bodyman to loan you a body hammer )
As I grew a family I loaned (lost) many tools to my kids, and now as an grandpa I lose tools to the grand kids.
My 20 something grandson has been buying tools as he needs them and his 1 1/2 year old daughter was playing with a wrench and "lost it "
what goes around comes around

JeffKranz
07-01-2010, 10:44 AM
I have loaned and borrow tools many times. I have loaned my Log splitter and tile cutting saw many times to good friends and co-workers. They all have been returned in good shape and my agreement with them was - keep it for as long as you need it (no need to rush the job). Once complete, return it in as good as condition as you got it and donate to the tool fund for what you think it was worth.

Never had a bad experience but that is what the tool fund is all about.

JCHannum
07-01-2010, 10:58 AM
As far as I am concerned, it depends entirely on the tool and the individual. The old "Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you." applies here.

If it is some who does not know how to use the tool properly, I will offer to help or demonstrate. I have benefited much more than I have lost in the long run.

Spin Doctor
07-01-2010, 11:05 AM
Some people I will loan stuff to. Mostly its "Do you see a red vest? Do I look like the helpfull (expletive deleted) hardware man?" As for borrowing toold from others. If I have to borrow something more than three times in a short period of time I'll buy one for myself.

DickDastardly40
07-01-2010, 11:06 AM
Reading this made me just check that the deck department returned my metric tap set; they had.

Not sure if the following is relevant but was funny to us at the time: My In-laws and I bought an abrasive tile saw between us as we both had reasonably concurrent kitchen projects. When I came to do our bathroom about a year later, I asked the FIL if I could have it as he had it last. After a look in his garage he told me that I must still have it. I couldn't find it in my garage and as time was pressing I bought a new one (fortunately on special offer). 3 weeks later he tells me he'd found the original which the MIL had stowed somewhere he didn't think to look. Oh how we laughed.

sansbury
07-01-2010, 11:14 AM
I once loaned a brand-new Ryobi 18V cordless drill to my next-door neighbor, a retired physician who seemed like the most reliable uptight guy in the world. Two weeks later, I asked for it back, and the next day he came back with a hang-dog look, told me he misplaced it, and gave me a 30-year-old Sears drill in exchange. At least he didn't lose the set of bits I gave him....

MinnesotaHSM
07-01-2010, 11:29 AM
Several years ago my mother gave me a leaf vac when she moved out of her house. It's nice. Sucks and shreds leaves down to about a 1/3rd the normal size.

Anyway, the neighbor wanted to borrow it and I thought why not. She used it and returned it. Seemed a little quick to return it.

Next time I went to use it I had to spend an hour digging out the leaves from the whole system. She had plugged it so tight that I couldn't even rotate the main chopper part. I had to remove several parts in order to clean it enough to get it working again. Now I don't lend it out to anyone.

My dearly departed neighbor (pipefitter, dead at 60 from brain tumor) was quick to lend me tools and even help me do stuff. He was that way. He also would buy a wrench at each gifting occasion for each of his grandchildren and throw them into the respective grandkid's toolbox. He planned to give them the fully populated toolbox when they reached 18. He bought good tools, no cheap stuff.

- T

PixMan
07-01-2010, 12:35 PM
No hard & fast rules about borrowing or loaning for me. It all depends upon the individual circumstances. Sometimes I need something and simply can't afford or justify buying it, so I borrow one. The older I get, the more stuff I own myself so it seems I've become the resource for others.

I would probably loan to people like you because people who HAVE tools generally respect them and promptly return them when borrowed. It's people like a tenant who has next to nothing who want to borrow an expensive or highly-technical thing who I am wary of.

Right now I've got about $2,000 worth of camera equipment loaned to a friend, and I'm not worried a bit about it. He doesn't have any digital SLR camera, but the professional medium format cameras and lighting systems he owns are in absolutely pristine condition. No fears, because he's one that understands the "you break it you own it" thing.

garagemark
07-01-2010, 12:56 PM
Real simple for me. Some yes, some sometimes and some never in a million years. Just depends on the tool they want, and who they are to me.

darryl
07-01-2010, 07:23 PM
I lent out a panel saw a few years ago. That's basically a skil saw, but with a smaller blade. Anyway, it came back totally burnt out. The guy must have smelled it at least, or noticed that it was getting hot- . After two years of giving him examples of the pitfalls of loaning out tools (always at an appropriate time), he finally 'bit the bullet' and gave me half of what it was worth. It had probably an hour on it in total when I loaned it, and now I don't have one- . I lost a perfectly good jigsaw the same way- I did get it back, but I might as well have thrown it in the garbage. No, it's not something I'm very keen to do.

Loaning out tools is like lending money- if you can handle not getting it back, then go right ahead if you want to. Like some others, I'd rather use my own tools to help someone fix something than lend them the tools.

Bill736
07-01-2010, 08:28 PM
I had a neighbor who used to "borrow" things without asking. He , and she, would come to my shop or utility room in broad daylight, take what they wanted, and not bring the items back . One day I saw him from an upstairs window borrow my car ramps . Later that day, I went over to his home, and found about 15 items of mine in his garage that had been " borrowed" and never returned, such as garden tools, garden hoses, a wheelbarrow, and my ramps. I loaded my wheelbarrow full of my stuff, and brought it all back home. The ramps were already under a non-running car of his, and I never did get them back before he moved away ! By then, they had sat outside rusting for so long that I didn't want them back.
I've never been sure whether they were thieves, or just irresponsible people.
I was trying to be a friendly neighbor, so I didn't complain too much, but I'm glad they're gone !

914Wilhelm
07-01-2010, 08:46 PM
Funny timing about this thread. I have a buddy, one of two I've never had a concern about lending tools back and forth with. I've borrowed many a thing with no issue. He has my airless sprayer right now for about a year and he was saying it wouldn't work today, so I went to take a look. Now I know it's hard to keep these things clean, but jesus christ on a crutch!!! The things got so much paint on it it looks like it's been dipped in drywall mud. It's also got the orifice plugged with rust cause it wasn't oiled after the last use. After watching him fart around between the "spray" and "prime" mode at full pressure I suspect he's also blown out the diaphragm. That being said, I saw a box in the kitchen that at one time contained a custom aluminum radiator for my car project. Turns out my wife needed a box, so went out into the shop and dumped the radiator out, dinging up the fins and bending a bracket. What the hell is up with that? I would never think of dumping, for instance, her saddle and bridal crap out cause I needed the box. Ya sometimes can't live with people and unfortunately ya can't kill em.

D_Harris
07-01-2010, 09:03 PM
Funny timing about this thread. I have a buddy, one of two I've never had a concern about lending tools back and forth with. I've borrowed many a thing with no issue. He has my airless sprayer right now for about a year and he was saying it wouldn't work today, so I went to take a look. Now I know it's hard to keep these things clean, but jesus christ on a crutch!!! The things got so much paint on it it looks like it's been dipped in drywall mud. It's also got the orifice plugged with rust cause it wasn't oiled after the last use. After watching him fart around between the "spray" and "prime" mode at full pressure I suspect he's also blown out the diaphragm. That being said, I saw a box in the kitchen that at one time contained a custom aluminum radiator for my car project. Turns out my wife needed a box, so went out into the shop and dumped the radiator out, dinging up the fins and bending a bracket. What the hell is up with that? I would never think of dumping, for instance, her saddle and bridal crap out cause I needed the box. Ya sometimes can't live with people and unfortunately ya can't kill em.

Yes you can, but... Anyway, what did she say when you complained?

I learned the hard way when I was young to never loan my comic books to friends. Though I didn't loose as much that way as I did from the comics my mom threw out.(Comics that would be worth thousands today).

Nevertheless, I've learned that loaning to family, friends, or neighbors is never a good idea.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

wierdscience
07-01-2010, 09:03 PM
I can loan tools to a total stranger and have a better chance of getting them back than loaning them to my own family.

That said I have friends that can borrow anything I own and I'm not worried.

At work things are diffrent,we "loan" tools all the time,so long as the person borrowing them leaves a cash deposit equal to the value of the tool.

atty
07-01-2010, 11:35 PM
Frank Ford is correct.

It's not about loaning tools, and whether they come back broken, or if at all. It's about people. They disappoint us; they reward us. Loaning tools is, perhaps a subtle, but yet very effective method of testing the mettle of those we trust. When they let us down, we post signs that say we don't loan tools. What we're really saying is that we're pissed at humanity for abusing our trusting beliefs.

I'll continue to be a loaner and borrower. I know things won't change, but I don't want to miss out on that reward I've been looking for......a genuine "Thank you".

I know it'll be a long wait.

gnm109
07-01-2010, 11:51 PM
I've had a few people who used to hang around me and mooch tools, food, clothing and time. I figured out a great way to get rid of them. Just give them a twenty dollar bill. You'll never see them again.

It worked for me. :D

motorcyclemac
07-02-2010, 03:27 AM
I'll kick in my story here too.

First off....I am A bit OCD and very picky about the condition of my posessions. I keep every thing clean..lubed...and full of fuel. I never let my vehicles get below a half tank. I clean the windows free of bugs and wash my pickup once a week religeously.

I used to be quite understanding of lending tools in the past. I have allowed people to borrow stuff and always felt very angry when it came back in lesser condition than it left.

I loaded an air ratchet to a mechainic friend of mine when his Snap on ratchet died. He came to me saying that he had to work tomorrow and his ratchet had failed...and could he borrow mine for a week or two until he could catch up with the Snap on man. Sure I said..and gave him a CP ratchet I had. It had been used about 5 times ....maybe. I stored it oiled with air tool oil ...in a plastic bag..in my box. I got it ...wiped it off..and gave it to him. I later had to go to the shop where he worked to get it back ..it was laying on the floor near his box..in a pool of anti freeze....rusted to beat hell. I was immediately furious. I picked it up...and walked out...never said a word. I got it home and oiled the inlet. Attached an air hose...and it barfed out more rusty antifreeze from the exhaust. It sounded like a dying crow. I put a socket on it..and spun it in my hand to find out that the ratchet was boogered up. I quietly dropped it in a garbage can.

Second story....my wife loaned a Yamaha 250 motorcycle to my adopted brother. He knew she had it as a spare bike and wanted to use it to take his endorsement test. She allowed him to take it. After a month went by ..she remarked to me....I think he isn't going to bring it back. I called him on the phone and asked about the location of the bike. He stammered about it...and finally revealed that he had ridden it to a location 40 miles south..had a minor accident with it..and it was in a friends barn. He further indicated that the owner of the barn had a large dog and that I couldn't go get it or I would be bitten....that is why he hadn't returned it. Bullsh!t. So collected the title from my file cabinet. Strapped the pistol on my hip. I took my pickup and drove the 40 miles. I stopped at a local 76 station and bought a fist full of sausages.... I arrived at the property where the bike was... Sure enough...BIG dog. So I fed him some of the italian sausage I bought... He loved me... I went to the barn and found the door locked. I knocked on it hard with the bottom of my boot...and it opened. Inside was the wife's bike. Laying on it's side...in a pool of oil...and gas. The fuel tank was dented...all the turn signals were broken off the stalks...and the engine was leaking out the case. I rolled it out the door...and loaded it in the truck...the dog waggin his tail the whole time. I drove home...PISSED off!

Last story was the end of my generosity. My buddy from Alaska arrived in his pickup rather unannounced. He had his wife with him. He had some business plans in town..and his wife was going to drive 150 miles one way to see her mom while he was occupied. The hitch was that HE needed his truck for his deal... They had 2 german shepherds with them and she wanted to take them with her to her mom's. She eyeballed my pickup and asked if she could borrow it for her round trip. I thought about it..and after some resistance...said yes...it would be fine. I had her prove that her insurance would cover an accident. It would and she left with it. She was gone for about 3 days. I was using my motorcycle for transportation at the time so I really didn't need the truck. I ASSUMED that she would haul the dogs in the back as it had a canopy. She returned the truck while I was gone to work. I came home at 4am....and saw the truck sitting in an oddball spot. She just drove up...and turned the key off.. and walked away. I dismissed anything about it...and went to bed. In the morning...I woke..and was standing out on my deck...drinking coffee and having a smoke. I looked at the truck ...and though....damn it is dirty. I walked down...and opened the door.. the buzzer sounded...the key was in it. The seat...was a BIG HAIR ball. Sh!t...she hauled those dogs in the cab...for 300 miles. The seat was wet. I called her...after I found the fuel tank on E.. "Hey..so what did you do to my truck...there is hair all over...and why is the seat wet...can't you afford to fill the tank?" She indicated that she took the dogs for a swim since the truck was hot....as it has no AC. I asked why it was so dirty .... She indicated that she drove down on the river bar...to get to the water. I asked about the empty fuel tank since it was full when she took it. She said...well...uh.....sorry...'bout that...I didn't know you'd mind.

I had to pour my lawn mower fuel jug in the tank to make it to the station. I ended up paying a detail shop to get the scratches out of the paint and had them steam clean the carpet and seats. The sick part was that at the time the truck had about 20,000 miles on it...and had never been off road.

So that is the sum total of my loaning stuff. Now...my biological brother and my father...are allowed to take stuff from my shop. I know they will take care of it..and replace if broken. That is fine. Otherwise....the answer is NO..unless you give me a deposit of the full replacement value.

Cheers
Mac.

airsmith282
07-02-2010, 07:03 AM
i dont loan tools out my self except to my landlord cause i know if he breaks it he will replace is and he knows i dont buy cheap tools. any how best advice on loaning tools is simple, if your going to do then you charge them the same as it cost you tax and all for the tool they want to borrow , if it comes back still working and they bring it back , then you give them their money back if you chase it down they get back 50%, if they break it you keep all the money and take the wife out for dinner or buy a new replacment tool. also give them a time limit say 3 days max 5 if its not back in 5 days they lose 30% plus the tool still has to be returned in same proper working order.

any how just my 2 cents on this subject

bruto
07-02-2010, 10:43 AM
There have always been a few people I'd both lend to and borrow from without problems. It's pretty handy if you have a tool that you don't need often, to be able to treat it as a shareable resource. But the people I've shared with are the sort who would fix or replace it if they broke it or lost it.

For the most part, though, I've given up on this. Too many people who borrow a tool either forget to bring it back, or balk at bringing it back because they haven't gotten around to using it yet (and never will). In addition, I've lost a couple of things when the borrower then loaned them out to someone else, and the chain got broken. You'd think people would be smart enough not to do that, but they do.

For big and complicated things, like powered machinery, chain saws, etc., I have always told friends you can borrow it any time, but it comes with operator attached.

gnm109
07-02-2010, 10:51 AM
I just don't lend anything anymore. It's not worth it. The people I used to lend things to just abused the privilege every time. They either kept the item and forced me to retrieve it or they damaged it and brought it back and left it on my lot when I wasn't there. No more of that stuff.

Some folks are just too cheap to buy their own damn stuff. They slough everything off on others.

For example, I had a neighbor for about 25 years. He would come over every now and then and ask me to weld something for him. Sure, why not? I helped him out every time, sometimes for a couple of hours. I never charged him a cent....for 25 years.........

When he moved out, he had a moving sale. I spotted three junky old office chairs and told him. "Gee, I could use those in my shop".

His response....."Sure, why not? They're only $5.00 each". Needless to say, I left them with him, along with my fond memories of wasted shielding gas, burnt welding rods and the extra electricity I wasted helping him.....

No tools loaned! See the sign?

:D



http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/gnm109/HarleyTools001A.jpg

Scishopguy
07-02-2010, 11:28 AM
As a rule I do not loan tools. That said, I do have a close circle of two or three friends that I have worked with that can use most any tool I have. I rarely borrow tools. If it is something unusual or seldom used I will not hesitate to borrow it from one of my buddies, with the belief that if I need it more than once I need to buy one of my own. This has worked out well for my friends and I. I have only had to buy a replacement a couple times in 35+ years in the trade. Neighbors tend to be unknown quantities as far as their skill, knowledge, and honesty goes. I have been disappointed too many times by them. There is nothing worse than having to go reclaim something like a ladder that you see is being abused and have to fight with the guy to get it back. :mad: As one person said, things like chain saws come with the operator attached. Not just any idiot can safely use a chain saw and I don't need any law suits against me for providing the instrument of destruction. My wife's ex was one of those borrowers who proudly said that he didn't need to buy something like a hand truck because he could borrow one any time he needed it. I really hate that attitude and told him that "ready rents" had them too. I refuse to subsidize a cheap ass. ;) Although borrowing is sometimes necessary it is often abused.

Rookie machinist
07-02-2010, 11:52 AM
When I worked in the dealerships I had no issues with someone borrowing tools as long as they were put back and CLEAN. I had an issue with one guy who could not grasp how to remove grease from a tool after he used it. So after teling him repeatedly to bring back my tools clean and him not understanding, I tought him a lesson. I pumped his tool box full of wheel bearing grease!!!:p Used up 2 complete drums. Yes it did get me suspended for a week and I had to pay for the grease but it was worth it to see him having a fit about all his greasy tools plus it took him 2 days to clean all his stuff up. He never borrowed a tool after that can't understand why:D

Scishopguy
07-02-2010, 12:46 PM
I forgot the most important thing I learned about loaning tools to friends, even close ones. I always insist that they get the tool from me (not my tool box) and return it to my hands. The reason for this has nothing to do with their honesty but more to do with where the item is put back. I know where every little thing is in my boxes because I ALWAYS put them in the same place. My buddies understand this and even do it themselves. Works well when all parties agree! ;)

bborr01
07-02-2010, 01:15 PM
I forgot the most important thing I learned about loaning tools to friends, even close ones. I always insist that they get the tool from me (not my tool box) and return it to my hands. The reason for this has nothing to do with their honesty but more to do with where the item is put back. I know where every little thing is in my boxes because I ALWAYS put them in the same place. My buddies understand this and even do it themselves. Works well when all parties agree! ;)


I can relate to that.

I have had tools come up missing when I let a friend wrench on their car in my garage.

Then find the tool months or years later where the friend had put it back in my tool box.

Brian

rowbare
07-02-2010, 02:25 PM
Lend big saws? - never... Smaller - sometimes... Much of the time I go over and fell/trim for them...

And you keep your friends safe by doing that. If they don't own them, they likely don't know how to use them safely. You do...

bob

oil mac
07-02-2010, 03:09 PM
One thing that really pisses me off, is the attitudes of the creatures who want to borrow tools from you, By and large these guys are the sorts who "wont buy anything, and if using yours, think it is their god given right to abuse or misuse the said tool to distruction, Being of the normal pattern of guys who have a very low or nil skill base, But a tremendous ego, or a low animal cunning"
Other peoples property means nothing to these guys, Generally nowadays, they have been reared on a diet of far east tool crap, coupled with a general attitude of no manners, & don,t give a **** attitude, Even the feeble efforts of some of todays so called "Ace craftsmen" of this century concern me, Heaven help this countries outlook in the next 20 years, Just a few weeks ago, i was in a workshop where there was so much risk assessments, safety considerations etc etc etc, Plus sets of tools which had a quality that one was off the opinion they were purchased from the store "Toys R Us", So much so that not a lot was going on.
The engineer in charge was complaining he wanted superior state of the art digital measuring equipment, The quality of the finished products, would have been quite easily achieved with ordinary mike, verniers, &a 12" rule The one thing which had vanished was the good old Scottish Engineering Instinct.
Where my own fine tools are concerned, I really treasure them , Where loaning out is concerned except for one good friend whom i trust explicitly, they are not negotiable !
Saying that we all come a cropper, on occasions, silly old me is no exception, breaking my own golden rules Recently, i gave a man away one of my clocks for repair, I thought of it and took a chance, Usually i go to a clockmaker of great integrity, As this little instrument went it was nice, but not of too great a degree of value, Do not think i will see it again, I have kept phoning up, "Clock is workin" Next, "just ready for Horoline bath", Next excuse, " been really in agony cant do anything just now" etc, Ithink the guy might be getting drunk a little more frequently for my liking, Maybe i am getting paranoid
Moral of all this Make sure you really know your mans integrity

Alistair Hosie
07-02-2010, 05:11 PM
Is that one good friend me Dan?:D:D:D Alistair Oh well worth a try

Daminer
07-02-2010, 05:12 PM
Very few folks will even ask to borrow my tools or equipment.....The tool kit from my A & P mechanic training days is NOT lent out.....I've had em' since 1959 and they continue to serve me well.....I just recently lent chains, a cable choker and a cum-a-long to a trustworthy neighbor for his tree-falling venture....
One friend lends me and a few others his wood splitter.....He used to burn wood for heat, but has since moved to a house with natural gas heat.....He kept the splitter and lends to us with the tacit understanding that WE maintain it in good condition.....Since I'm the mechanic of the group I do the oil and Hydraulic filter changes and general repairs.....It's a real win situation for me, since renting a splitter for a couple of days would cost a bit of $$$, and I'd have to bust a gut getting it all done in a hurry.....
Where I get really restrictive is lending anything that uses electricity, gasoline or gunpowder.....My son is the only person who may use my firearms, and that's that.....There are maybe 3 folks who have borrowed drills, saws or the chainsaw in the past.....I've found many people have an inflated opinion about their abilities with power tools.....Too many ruthless attorneys would line up to take me to the cleaners if someone injured themselves, or lost body parts.....

Jim

Deja Vu
07-02-2010, 05:38 PM
One thing that really pisses me off, is the attitudes of the creatures who want to borrow tools from you, By and large these guys are the sorts who "wont buy anything, and if using yours, think it is their god given right to abuse or misuse the said tool to distruction, Being of the normal pattern of guys who have a very low or nil skill base, But a tremendous ego, or a low animal cunning"
................................
.............
Maybe i am getting paranoid
Moral of all this Make sure you really know your mans integrity
How true! I had a 'pal'. We both had hangars and he asked if we would exchange keys. I said 'sure!'. As I discovered tools going missing in my hangar winterized "shop" that I built to fit with my short wing colt, I found myself running over to the "pal's" hangar to retrieve at least some of them for use. But I couldn't get in because even after numerous times asking for his key, he came up with just as many numerous excuses.
When I finally caught up from playing hangar tag, and got into his place, I saw a few of my tools out from being used. Then, after opening one of his tool chest drawers (and being scolded with "what are you doing there?"), I discovered more of my tools neatly placed.
Now he took good care of his tools, and mine too! Problem was, he never brought them back in the evening. And most importantly, I had no way to access them....
It was only a short run across the airport grounds.

I never did get a key to his hangar, and later I ended the relationship.
But he still has my air metal shears and cordless drill that he claims I gave him. But all the files, wrenches, pliers, etc. I think I got back. Every time I look for a tool and can't find it now, I think maybe he has that too! Some show up from my own misplacement.

I could go on with stories about this before we/I parted ways, but you get the idea.

John Stevenson
07-02-2010, 06:07 PM
I don't mind borrowing if I'm stuck but I then make the decision do I need one and if the answer is yes I'll get one, it's just the the need is probably instant and not enough time to get one ordered.

If folk know this they are a lot more willing to loan.

I used to get a guy from up the road to give me a lift with his fork truck, at the time he was the only one with one local.
He always came down and gave a lift but after a while I realised it was starting to get regular so I bought a small 3/4 tonne one, it's handy for me as it will go down the paths and inside, something a normal one won't do.

Now when I get stuck with something heavy they know I'm stuck because of weight not because I always need a truck.

When the body shop people moved in across the road they asked if they could borrow mine over a weekend for about 5 or 6 weekends so they could line the roof of the building against dust. I just handed the key over and made sure the battery was fully charged each Friday.
Now they have had to buy a big 4 tonne one with long forks to load write off's onto multi deck transporters.

When they had bought it the boss came over and said anytime you want this John, just come and fetch the keys, the manager has been told it's OK.

.

scatter cat
07-02-2010, 06:42 PM
Geez loaning stuff out is easy if you go by the golden rule of lending. "If your not ready to give it away don't loan it out" :D There are a few people I would trust with any thing in the shop but mostly it's the golden rule.;)

BigMike782
07-02-2010, 10:49 PM
My Dad taught me an important lesson years ago.If I needed a tool I needed to buy one....new,used,broken whatever but I was not trust worthy enough to use his tools.
Worked good for me....turned me into a tool junky.

snowman
07-02-2010, 11:21 PM
The people that are allowed to borrow from me, already have keys, and I have keys to their stuff as well.

The number of times I've been at my father in laws and said, "hey, I've got one just like that", only to find out that it is mine....too numerous to count. But if I go to use something and can't find it, there is a short list of people to call to find it.

Like said, I've got doubles and triples of everything, so I could care less most of the time. Once in a while I will only have a single and it's on loan...those projects are rarely important enough that I can't just move on to the next project and come back to that one.

I'm not that anal about anything anymore...life is too short.

Nobody is allowed to use machinery though.

Steve Seebold
07-03-2010, 01:40 AM
My kids always want to borrow my tools, and then I have to fight to get them back. Last time I loaned something to my youngest son to be returned in a week, it took about 8 months and then when I asked for it back, his wife told my wife what a A**hole I am for wanting my tools back. Needless to say, his wife and I haven't spoken for months. Last I heard, she had moved out.

All I can say is BYE BYE.

snowman
07-03-2010, 10:25 AM
My kids always want to borrow my tools, and then I have to fight to get them back. Last time I loaned something to my youngest son to be returned in a week, it took about 8 months and then when I asked for it back, his wife told my wife what a A**hole I am for wanting my tools back. Needless to say, his wife and I haven't spoken for months. Last I heard, she had moved out.

All I can say is BYE BYE.

Seriously?

I can't imagine having that kind of relationship with my father. He'll give me anything, and I'll return the favor. If I had to give him my only good ratchet, and then busted my knuckles every time I used an old ratty one, I'd still consider myself getting the better end of the deal to have the relationship I do with him.

Scishopguy
07-03-2010, 07:52 PM
While he was growing up, my son was pretty bad about borrowing my tools and not putting them back. I explained how I kept them and why it was important that they be put back where they belonged. It seemed like it fell on deaf ears, especially when his buddies came around to work on their old cars. Finally, after losing a bunch of wrenches and screwdrivers and having all my good ratchets all marked up from dropping on the concrete I had enough and locked up my roll away. He thought I was being unreasonable until now. He is now a certified Ford master mechanic and has his own set of Snap on everything. He has expensive Fluke meters and a lot of specialty tools. He has appologized to me for being a little pain in the butt and says that he now knows where I was coming from. Sometimes learning is slow to come but eventually you get through the bone tissue. ;)

fraker
07-04-2010, 09:21 AM
Family's the worst of the bunch in my opinion.

I own (and still run) a Kawasaki EN500 factory custom, bought new in 1990.

Following an accident I bought another and bought back the write off from the insurance company and set about rebuilding the engine (250,000 miles. It was my ONLY form of transport) rebuilt the gearbox, new bearings throughout. Etc. Etc. thinking a spare engine is never a bad idea.:o

Anyhoo.

6 months later my younger brother rolls up saying he wants to buy a motorbike just like mine.

Okay, say I and we spend a while hunting around for a semi decent machine that's not been too thrashed. Finally we find one that's been in a “minor accident” with cosmetic damage (Fuel tank dented, bent bars)

So, with bruv being low on income, I buy the bike for him, on the understanding that he pays me back whatever he can afford per week.

Turns out the timing is 180 degrees out and it won't start, so the original owner did an insurance job on it. Funny how a 3 lb lump hammer fits the tank dent perfectly.:eek:

Anyhoo, with the machine I bought back from the insurance company, we (I) was able to get 'lil brothers machine up to a reasonable standard. Maybe a little ugly but, more importantly, perfectly safe.


A year later lil bruv turns up in his car and says,”could you give me a hand, the bike's running a bit rough? I've got the engine in the boot!”

So, I haul it into the garage and swap my engine for his in my frame.

Oh sure it starts, but sounds like a bucket of bolts and won't idle worth a damn.

Investigation shows he's managed to seize the left hand bearing through lack of oil.

“No matter, says I, I'll lend you my spare, rebuilt engine until we can get yours sorted.

So, one engine transplant later, bruv is as happy as a pig in...

So, a month later, I have his engine rebuilt and back to him

“Excellent” he says, “I'll get your engine back to you as soon as I can” and roars off into the sunset.

8 months later (Christmas) I see him again and mention my spare, rebuilt engine.

“Oh, Kathy (His wife) didn't like me riding bikes so I sold it and the spare engine I had.”

“Umm. That engine you sold was MY rebuilt engine. Says I

“yeah, but you didn't need it” was his come back.

But. How did you manage to sell it" I asked. "It was registered in my name?"

"Simple. I just re-registered it in my name" He replies, smiling

“Please leave my home now” Was the last thing I said to him.

So, here I am, no money for the bike and no spare engine.:mad:

Family. Can't live with 'em. Can't kill 'em.


Sorry for rambling on.

Bill

Magicniner
07-04-2010, 09:38 AM
After a few bad experiences I now lend tools on my father's Standard Terms & Conditions, these are:
"It comes back in the same condition as it goes out, working, clean, oiled etc. otherwise it's yours and you buy me a new one."
I've not had a problem since, funnily enough after hearing the terms lots of people now decide they don't need to borrow my tools ;-)
ATB,
Nick

outlawspeeder
10-24-2012, 10:53 AM
The sign on all three of my tool boxes says; “Mechanic goes with borrowed tools at shop’s rates plus 50%. All payments will be in paid in advance of borrowing tools” “Mechanic is still willing to give stupid looks for free.”

My first job changing tires and oil back when Kmart did auto work, the guy that ran the shop had one rule. If you borrow a tool, you must buy that tool from your next pay check. 28 years later I still have the double end socket for lug nuts I had to buy along with most of the tools I bought working there.

Thank you “Gus” a two pack a day Pal Mal chain smoker.

PS only ask for one of those Pal Mal at the end at my shift. I turn green and he laughed.

oil mac
10-24-2012, 04:09 PM
"As i say to myself its a wonderfull world", Or the song goes something like, A lot has happened since my last posting, The guy with my clock, sorted out his problems, &when i heard the difficulties he was having, I had a large pang of remorse, + my clock returned beautiful!, now he is one of my buddies, Its a weird old world Funnily enough back on track he is a most skilled guy

Talking to him about little under two years ago, He was showing me a nice horological tool he had loaned a man it was totally ruined the guy dropped it down a flight of concrete steps, & says to him "Its slightly bent!"

Things do not seem to improve over the years, This in many ways is a direct result of todays degenerating policy of the somewhat weird &disgusting political attitude that skilled workpeople are of little or no great value, It is all commercial / moneylending/banking /city types as a roll model for the kids to follow, Do not follow great uncle Clyde into the mechanical arts, Dirty hands &blue collar not a respectable vocation!
The other problem possibly of a greater magnitude is the disappearance of good solid tool names like Brown & Sharp , in the U.S. or folks like Benson or Moore & Wright in the U.K.
What we are left with is crap foreign imports which one throws away when they break,So therefore nobody gives a rats a**e about anyones equipment they borrow
O.K. Guys before i get flamed i know there is still a lot of good home grown tools still around, Some of you have mentioned Snap On
Another thing which is insidious, is If you keep lending stuff out You are looked on as a soft touch (a mug)
If you are too willing to drop everything &do grace & favours for everyone from Alask to the Falkland Islands Via London, Paris & NEw York, you will be treated with contempt after a time certainly greatly taken for granted, & your good nature not greatly appreciated

Sad example-- Like everyone else, i have had an occasional spell of illness, Some time ago, came out of hospital was recouperating, when someone came in to see how i was doing, (Two days later) Takes a broken component out of his pocket & says make a new part for this & braze it back on That was the moment the benevolence died
I must confess to not lending my fine tools, too often they have returned completely broken, or not returned at all including some nice tools formerly belonging to my late dad, Which were of sentimental value
Time also is too short with the relentless & fast pace of Anno Domini Best do your own thing &enjoy life, Except in dire emergency situations

Tamper84
10-24-2012, 05:05 PM
I'll lend tools. But from my hand back into mine. So I know where they go, and when I need them I know where they are at. Here at the house I have seen how my tools were getting used and thrown about cause "they are just tools!!!!!" Well that's when all of my tools got locked up. And people don't understand why. That's why when they need something an operator comes with it. Tools cost me too much the first time around, for me to buy again.

sasquatch
10-24-2012, 07:03 PM
i'll loan a tool to a close friend or my kids, but i just will not borrow a tool for myself.

I won't lend to people i really don't feel they will take care of it.

Years back i lent a Local history book to a neighbour to read, (He could have bought 10 of them he wasn't poor.)
After 6 months i asked for the book BACK!
The SOB had lent it to his cousin who lived 300 miles away! Never did get it back.
The borrower had a sawmill, and i got some lumber from him, and never paid him,, he KNEW why!!

oldtiffie
10-24-2012, 07:29 PM
I never lend and never borrow nor do I do work for anyone else - whether they provide good material for the job - rarely - or they expect me to provide the time,advice, material and the tools etc. - mostly/always.

"Good causes" are a total PITA and "family (and their friends)" are not far behind.

The tool or part etc. was always wanted yesterday and I was expected to drop what I was doing without question to suit them and get it for them and give it to them - right there and then.

Once word gets around as to what you've got and what you can do and how easy a touch you are you have a problem as somepeople you might not like turn up wanting "this or that" becasuse a friend (of a friend of a friend) told them to see me and because they sent them that it wouldall be OK - Like hell it is - sorry - was!!

Being the town "nice guy" or "good guy" is a big hole to dig yourself into - it only gets deeper unless you put a total stop to it.

Part of my planning for a job I might be doing is seeing that I have the tool/s I need. If "yes" - go ahead. If "no" - change the process or go and buy the required tool/s.

Has anyone who has problems with people borrowing asked them to sign them out when they take them and back in again (in a goodcondition less "fair wear and tear" - just like a tool store at a college or commercvial work-shop store?

I have - it stops them cold.

Peace and serentity reigns in my shop - total ba$tard that I am to some ("offenders").

Rookie machinist
10-24-2012, 07:32 PM
I worked in dealerships for years and found salesmen were the worst for returning tools untlil I asked for their wallet as collateral, they stopped asking me for tools after that. Had one tech that was notorious for bringing tools back dirty, finally told him not to ask to borrow anymore tools about a month later I came into work to find my axle nut socket covered in grease sitting on my box. When I confronted him about it he though it was funny that "he didn't ask, he just came and borrowed it." The next Saturday I worked I filled his box with grease from the overhead, the look on his face was priceless on Monday. I was given a 3 day vacation and had to pay for the grease but it was well worth it, guy never borrowed from be again.

dave5605
10-24-2012, 08:01 PM
You want to borrow my tools, I want to borrow your golf clubs. Then the discussion goes that I don't know how to play golf and I say what makes me think you know how to use what you want to borrow.

Or being single, I want to borrow your wife/girl friend because I have this dirty house that needs cleaning.

Only one time did I have a good experience with borrowed tools. They actually weren't borrowed but I left about $3k of hand carpenter tools on a job and it was like midnight and the good friend of mine said he would bring them to me the next day. Well the back of his trailer opened up going down the road and every tool was lost out the back end.

He knew I didn't have a crap tool in the whole pile and he just said to buy all new and give him the receipts. Must have been 100+ receipts. No questions asked.A man of his word, he wrote me a check on the spot. We both felt really bad about the whole thing but we also knew what was right. I would have done the same if the situation had been reversed.

We are still good friends 20 years later. Friends like that are hard to find.

If I loan you a tool the operator, me, comes with it.

Mcgyver
10-24-2012, 08:07 PM
"As i say to myself its a wonderfull world" Talking to him about little under two years ago, He was showing me a nice horological tool he had loaned a man it was totally ruined the guy dropped it down a flight of concrete steps, & says to him "Its slightly bent!"


A worthless human being. Not because of the bent tool, but the absence of integrity (lied, unethical) and credibility (falsely represented himself as know what he was doing, and didn't do what he implied - return it properly).

People with no credibility or integrity get none of my time, they're just not worth it.....unfortunately its not always easy to spot up front

The astonishing thing is that supposedly in any personality self assesment excercise, the most prevelant characteristic, almost always listed first, is integrity followed by credibility a spot or two below it. Yet these are the qualities so few seem to demonstrate. What makes up that disparity, that gap between the real and self perceived personality? $hit. And if the gap gets very big at all, that's when you're full of $hit.

A very common affliction I think

oldtiffie
10-24-2012, 08:18 PM
I'd probably go so far as to say that if you lend tools and have some of the problems previuos that you may be a large part of the problem andif so you have no one toblame but yourself.

Lending tools is a gamble anyway.

Sometimes the odds work in your favour (and you are quite pleased with yourself) but strangely enough when it goes wrong you blamed the other party - which may be true - but you took the chance and if it failed then you are a contributing party to it and so must take at least part of the blame - and perhaps liabilty for thecost of the replacement - none of which might be the case if you didn't agree to lend it in the first place.

duckman
10-24-2012, 08:29 PM
I'll loan you my tools, but you have to leave your drivers license and a credit card so far I've had no takers.

ironmonger
10-24-2012, 09:31 PM
I have three friends I have known for 25+ years plus who I will lend tools to. Those are the guys that will arrive when you need help at any hour of the night or day, and never ask for a dime. One of them did all the machine work on an engine overhaul and never asked for a dime. Years later I was in his shop helping repair the overhead door until 2 AM on a work night. We have been helping each other for all these years and will continue to do so. There ain't many like these fellas.

I have a son in the area who also has that right. Everyone else is directed to the sign that hangs in my humble shop that lists my shop rate. I will be happy to employ the tool that you need to borrow fixing your problem at my rate. Some of my neighbors get things fixed free, not because they asked but because I offered. Nothings worse than a busted bracket on your snow blower in the middle of a snow storm. Those that abuse our relationship get to read the sign.

45 years ago I worked in a fifty-fifty sports car and motorcycle dealership as a young line mechanic. I was always allowed to borrow a tool with the understanding that the next visit by the Snap-On/Matco truck would result in sale by the tool guy. All tools were lent on the you-break-it-you-buy-it plan.

paul

J Tiers
10-24-2012, 10:46 PM
Funny that this popped up right now......

Went to a wedding down near Black, MO this last weekend. We left before many others because we had a 2+ hour drive back.

So, a couple miles north of the "shut-ins" on "highway N" (two lanes, no shoulder) I get a flat tire. Dig out the spare from under the pickup bed, and put it on. Gosh, that sure looks low......... about 9 lb pressure. We had filled up the tires before leaving.

So, I get out the pump, which coincidentally had just been returned, a couple weeks late, by a neighbor. AARGH! The pump has a rip in the hose, and won't pump any air. Hose is crimped on, and just about impossible to fix outside the shop, especially at 10 PM with what I have in the truck, never mind that the rip is in a place that leaves not much hose. The borrower could not possibly have ignored that leak..... but never mentioned it.

So I had to call back (there actually was a tower in range) and get someone to drive up with a tank and fill the spare. It actually held air clear back to town.

"Tools" has just had the definition expanded a bit.

Deus Machina
10-24-2012, 11:09 PM
Yup, see Ironmonger above.
I have one, maybe two guys I will let borrow my tools unsupervised. These are the guys that I would literally trust my life to, and have on a few occasions, depending on how much you believe the warning stickers on hoists, jacks, and welding grounds. Unfortunately, the one that gets it no-questions-asked moved halfway across the country.

If I work with someone, I will loan a time or two. If I come in the next day and the tool is intact, clean, and in my box, you retain that right. Had a few when I worked as a mechanic, and I also had the guys that I would yell at over stuff like that. I actually preferred lending it to Roberto, who would have my borrowed tools clean, intact, readjusted, and organized in his toolbox--and would return them as soon as I came in--because returning them to my box would leave them in the exact opposite condition in Todd's toolbox.

Otherwise, I'm happy to let people use my tools, not borrow them, as long as they're not stuff like the mill and I'm there.

The engineering society's electric race team has a large set of my tools on campus. It's the stuff like the Harbor Freight 300 piece wrench set and the like. Basic hand tools and taps and dies. I leave them for them because I'm rarely able to actually help with the build because of scheduling, and I got it in writing that anything that gets broken, bent, lost, or dulled will result in my getting the money for a mid-grade replacement from the local tool supplier. Since this would otherwise come out of the club's funds, the treasurer and president of the group makes sure they get treated right and the labels stay on.

BigJohnT
10-25-2012, 07:55 AM
When I was 17 I needed to replace the clutch on my beetle and when it came time to find a 36mm 3/4" drive and breaker bar needed to take the pilot shaft bearing nut out the only one I could think of was a guy that lived a few blocks away that rebuilt VW's as a hobby (he was a FBI agent). I knew the family pretty good so I asked him if I could borrow the tool and he let me borrow it. After I finished changing the clutch I cleaned up the tool and returned it. He was not home but his wife answered the door. I explained I was returning the tool I had borrowed and she replied "you must be special, he never loans a tool to anyone."

When I do borrow something and that is not often I try and return it in better shape than I borrowed it.

John

gwilson
10-25-2012, 08:25 AM
I loaned my Delta bandsaw fence to a trusted old guy,but he had this disgusting hippie son. The son came bringing me back the fence,and I was lucky to find the missing pieces that he carelessly allowed to fall off on the 100' path while bringing it to me. I hated that stupid idiot,and he finally got fired by the director. his parents,old English,couldn't stand him either.

I trusted his father,but did not know he was going to get idiot son to return the fence!!

Cheeseking
10-25-2012, 02:30 PM
Everything I loan out gets marked "Stolen from_________" insert name here. :o

Black_Moons
10-25-2012, 04:43 PM
Everything I loan out gets marked "Stolen from_________" insert name here. :o

Won't stop em. Iv seen a guy who was well known for being a bastard, wearing someone elses gloves... How did I know they where someone elses? They had a full name written in black felt, 1" tall letters, around the entire cuff of the gloves.

Didn't stop that bastard from nicken em. I know he nicked em because I don't think theres anyone who would be stupid enough to lend him anything. some people have absolutely no shame

oldtiffie
10-25-2012, 05:05 PM
Funny that this popped up right now......

Went to a wedding down near Black, MO this last weekend. We left before many others because we had a 2+ hour drive back.

So, a couple miles north of the "shut-ins" on "highway N" (two lanes, no shoulder) I get a flat tire. Dig out the spare from under the pickup bed, and put it on. Gosh, that sure looks low......... about 9 lb pressure. We had filled up the tires before leaving.

So, I get out the pump, which coincidentally had just been returned, a couple weeks late, by a neighbor. AARGH! The pump has a rip in the hose, and won't pump any air. Hose is crimped on, and just about impossible to fix outside the shop, especially at 10 PM with what I have in the truck, never mind that the rip is in a place that leaves not much hose. The borrower could not possibly have ignored that leak..... but never mentioned it.

So I had to call back (there actually was a tower in range) and get someone to drive up with a tank and fill the spare. It actually held air clear back to town.

"Tools" has just had the definition expanded a bit.

There is a lesson there.

How many remember to check the "spare" - and the jack - regularly - check the trailer and its pare as well? - I'd guess many don't.

If I have a fair load in the boot I will quite often put an extra spare in the back seat well - easier to get out and back without unloading and re-loading the boot.

I quite often put a spare for the trailer in the back seat well too as no spare for the trailer can be as big a PITA as having a "flat" on the car.

But as I don't lend tools all that is required for a flat tyre is in the boot too.

CCWKen
10-25-2012, 10:24 PM
I say SURE! Bring your car, truck, trailer, lawn mower, tractor, washing machine, toaster, etc. over here and you can use the tool(s). Otherwise, nothing leaves the shop.

1-800miner
10-25-2012, 11:20 PM
I was in need of a machinist level for my lathe. I asked a few friends that trust me but no one owned on.
They said that old Tom down the road had one but he won't loan tools.

I approached Tom with my best puppy dog eyes and told him the situation. He loaned me the level, wrapped in an oiled rag, with a lecture about never loaning tools out.
I set up the lathe with it. Then took a piece of cherry wood and routed a recess for the level,put brass hinges and latch on the lid.
I returned it in it's new box and Tom and I have been close friends for thirty years.
He still does not loan tools to anyone else.

J Tiers
10-25-2012, 11:21 PM
There is a lesson there.

How many remember to check the "spare" - and the jack - regularly - check the trailer and its pare as well? - I'd guess many don't.

If I have a fair load in the boot I will quite often put an extra spare in the back seat well - easier to get out and back without unloading and re-loading the boot.

I quite often put a spare for the trailer in the back seat well too as no spare for the trailer can be as big a PITA as having a "flat" on the car.

But as I don't lend tools all that is required for a flat tyre is in the boot too.

WEll, I daresay there is a lesson in there somewhere, which perhaps is "check every tool for correct functioning as soon as it is returned".....

As for the spare for the truck:


We had filled up the tires before leaving.



I have an actually "spare" tire, which hasn't a wheel to put it on. That tire is going to get a wheel, PDQ, and both of them will be in the back of the truck, neither will be underneath. Underneath the wheel gets rusty, which probably led to the spare tire losing air. Perhaps after it was put on and the truck driven it "worked" on the rim enough to rub the rust off and seal up so it stayed filled driving back and a couple more days while 2 more tires which looked less than great got replaced.

I am told that the tire size on the truck (an S-10) is now obsolete, and hard to get other than a couple makers. I have also heard that is BS... dunno, my tire joint had none in stock anywhere in Uniroyal, which is what has been on the truck up to now.

oldtiffie
10-26-2012, 12:11 AM
WEll, I daresay there is a lesson in there somewhere, which perhaps is "check every tool for correct functioning as soon as it is returned".....

.

The lesson is - don't lend tools - period - as you will know where they are and in what condition they are in - always - not just when you need them.

The big assumption of some "friends" is that if they return it late or defective - or not at all - is the "JT/OT" won't mind - they will "understand" whereas they won't do it to someone who may be less accommodaing and understanding.

The bloody annoying thing is that they presume that in the same circumstances in future they can and will impose on you and takeyoufor granted the same way.

And to make matters worse having been "given the message" about a new/working tool (in this case a trye pump) they won't either fix their own or buy a new one in short order if/when they think yours is "available".

If I am not regarded as the biggest ar$e-hole in the district in that regard I reckon I am treading hot on the heels of who ever is.

oldtiffie
10-26-2012, 01:21 AM
.................................................. ..........

I have an actually "spare" tire, which hasn't a wheel to put it on. That tire is going to get a wheel, PDQ, and both of them will be in the back of the truck, neither will be underneath. Underneath the wheel gets rusty, which probably led to the spare tire losing air. Perhaps after it was put on and the truck driven it "worked" on the rim enough to rub the rust off and seal up so it stayed filled driving back and a couple more days while 2 more tires which looked less than great got replaced.

I am told that the tire size on the truck (an S-10) is now obsolete, and hard to get other than a couple makers. I have also heard that is BS... dunno, my tire joint had none in stock anywhere in Uniroyal, which is what has been on the truck up to now.

I think I read somewhere that tyre air can leak out through the tube (if you have one) and the tyre casing itself over time - same can go for the schraeder valve.

About every three to six months or so - less if necessary - I top up all my tyres in the shop - oxy/acet cart, builders barrow, garden cart, ride-on mower, trailer, spare wheels etc. It is surprising how many (a few) are "low" and need a top-up (or a new tube).

Perhaps its different with car/truck/vehicle tyres - perhaps not.

My car is past obsolescent and and in some parts obsolete (23-year old "Ford") and my tyre service mechanic tells me that my tyres are getting hard to replace with only a few suppliers but all are very good - so I accept it for what it is and pay for what is needed. So even though my car is in very good condition it may have to be disposed of through lack of available makers or after-market spares.

My next car - in 12 months or so - will be a "Mazda 3" but I will need to check out the "spare wheel" situation there too.

My tyres get lots of mileage but theproblem is that over time the tyre tread to casing bond is inclined to weaken and let water in in wet weather (they are OK in dry weather). The trailer tyres are less of a problem.

Buit I always have my wheel-change gear in the car.

dp
10-26-2012, 01:35 AM
I think I read somewhere that tyre air can leak out through the tube (if you have one) and the tyre casing itself over time - same can go for the schraeder valve.

About every three to six months or so - less if necessary - I top up all my tyres in the shop - oxy/acet cart, builders barrow, garden cart, ride-on mower, trailer, spare wheels etc. It is surprising how many (a few) are "low" and need a top-up (or a new tube).

About 2 weeks ago I bought a 3 gallon air compressor from Harbor Freight for less than $50 just for those spot needs. It was too much screwing around to bring each barrow and cart and pressure washer at al to the garage. Now I pump da buggah up and carry it to the tires. And it is a hell of a lot quieter than my 21 gallon compressor.

oldtiffie
10-26-2012, 01:46 AM
Dennis,

I'd have thought that your kompressor would have been listed here - but from Harbour Frieght?

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&gs_nf=3&cp=6&gs_id=1c&xhr=t&q=kompressor&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&rlz=1W1IRFC_enAU360&oq=kompre&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=7680231318a44bb0&bpcl=35466521&biw=1920&bih=884

J Tiers
10-26-2012, 08:47 AM
If I am not regarded as the biggest ar$e-hole in the district in that regard I reckon I am treading hot on the heels of who ever is.

yeah, well, I happily help out any friend or neighbor who will:

1) show some appreciation, not reward me, but show appreciation that someone did something for them, instead of just "expecting" it.

2) will pitch in and do some of the work themselves (within limits, some people get a free pass, as for instance elderly ladies, etc).

It's not a bother, and most folks really don't want to impose.... but they know I WILL help if needed. Most tools come with me attached. And a cheap air pump isn't a big deal even if screwed up, aside from it not being functional when I needed it.

(it's hard to find an "expensive" air pump that is worth anything... the money isn't proof of value, good construction and good function would be nice.....)

mike4
10-26-2012, 09:49 PM
I second the idea of loaning tools with the owner attached.
Michael

The Artful Bodger
10-27-2012, 12:08 AM
When anyone asks me for the lend of a tool I select one from my box of old, knackered and blunt tools. They always come back and sometimes they have even been sharpened!

John Stevenson
10-27-2012, 06:35 AM
Well you lot must have some crap friends.
I loan tools out all the while, just make a note of who has what on a clip board.
Never had a problem and I never get refused when I need something.

Occasionally the odd tap gets broken but they do offer to replace it, lets face it taps are consumables.

It's nice knowing you can pick the phone up and get what you want but it's a two way street.

Borrowed a big set of core drills last week, no point in me buying a set as I will probably never use them again but asked a guy who had borrowed some stuff of me and it all worked out fine.

flylo
10-27-2012, 09:38 AM
My dad had 2 sets of tools. Set A was the worst junk available which he gladly loaned. When you broke them you had to buy new replacements which went into set B which never was loaned, he then replaced the broken tool in set A with another yard sale find. At 16 I learned to buy my own tools.

Mcgyver
10-27-2012, 10:54 AM
Well you lot must have some crap friends.
I loan tools out all the while,

maybe not crap, but clueless about tools

might be that you're doing so in a commercial setting, loaning to other tradesmen who get it. I think a lot of these guys are thinking loaning to the lout down the block who is comparatively clueless on tools and their correct use.

might also be less attachment for guy doing so as a vocation - just something you use earning your daily bread vs hobbyist to whom the stuff can be more a important person possession.

I like the retort someone suggested, sure you can borrow it, btw can I use your clubs next week?

Oldbrock
10-27-2012, 07:23 PM
I worked as a machinist in an oilfield shop in Edmonton and the lead mechanic came to borrow a 5 to 6 mike to check a draw works shaft. Then he came to borrow a pair of pliers to get the mike off the shaft************** I told him he just bought me a new mike. Peter

darryl
10-28-2012, 02:47 AM
I loaned a bolt cutter to a friend awhile back. He got it back to me within a few days, but it was all twisted up and the jaws were chunked out. He had tried to hammer the thing flat after using it, and made the remark that is was a piece of crap. Funny how any time I'd used it, it worked fine.

Lent the 4x4 to a good friend long ago. It came back without windshield wipers- huh?

J Tiers
10-28-2012, 10:07 AM
The ex-husband of one of my wife's sisters was notorious..... if you lent him a good 5 gallon gas can, you were likely to get back 2 cheap 2 gallon cans, about a month late. No idea where the original one would go.... Nobody with any sense would loan a tool to him with him taking it out of sight.... it might later be seen in a pawnshop, if seen at all.

But he would also drive up to Cleveland to play poker, and often came back looking like he lost a bar fight, which he likely had.... we enjoyed that part of it. What goes around................