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nheng
07-03-2010, 08:59 AM
It seems like ever few weeks Firefox issues an update and it just keeps getting slower and slooowweerrrr.

Just took a look at the Bugzilla entry for the 3.6.6 update and could not believe what I saw. This update is to change a non-responsive plugin timeout primarily because of feedback on problems with "Farmlife". What the <bleep> is Farmlife? I know, I can go Google it.

How about "Real-life". That's what most of us run every day. I use the browser all day, every day doing design and development work. I don't need a hack job browser that keeps getting slower and issues patches to the 370 MILLION users because of goofy little things like this.

They make you (ok, lead you) to think that maybe you're getting a safer and better browser with each update ... pure BS.

I suppose the time is coming (or perhaps here) when you will not be able to find a browser that is fast, compact and reliable.

RANT OFF - sorry.

Den

goose
07-03-2010, 09:03 AM
Of the big three (IE, Firefox, Google Chrome, I've never used Safari) Google Chrome seems the most stable. FF kept crashing, and often still does when I use it, but I like FF interface a bit better than the others. I Use Chrome about 95% of the time now.


Gary

Evan
07-03-2010, 09:18 AM
I stopped using FF with rev 3. It has become a memory hog. Opera is now the best of the bunch in my opinion.

RancherBill
07-03-2010, 09:55 AM
In my humble opinion Chrome is far and away the best of IE, FF and Chrome.

IE is jusnk, FF has become very slow. Chrome is great and is user friendly. I am a beta-tester for Chrome. I love it.

squirrel
07-03-2010, 10:02 AM
our server stats show:
IE 58%
firefox 31%
Safari 5.5%
Chrome 4.1%
other mozilla compt.2%

I can remember the days when firefox had 5% market share, IE thought they were too big to fail. This is actual unbiased server side captured browser data.

J Tiers
07-03-2010, 10:12 AM
I am still using 3.0.19, and no problems whatever. might change if I re-install, of course. But I don't plan to.

IE is not worthy.....

And I simply refuse to use a Google software product if it is possible to avoid it. Google seemingly wants to own you, your data, and your computer. All for "your own good" of course.

ADGO_Racing
07-03-2010, 10:41 AM
I use Firefox, what ever the last update was a few days ago. I have no problems with it. I switched when IE 8 came out. I fought for several days once 8 was automatically installed by Microsoft. I did not have ANY browser, nothing I did would make it work. So I used a buddies computer, down loaded FF to my jump drive, and never a problem since.

Software really seems to live up to the saying that: " you can make some of the people happy some of the time, but you can never make all of the people happy all of the time".

I have fire fox open all of the time, with multiple tabs open most of the time. In my experience, IE likes to be shut down regularly, or else it chrashes forcing you to shut it down. When I did finally get IE working again (New computer) I found it crashed regularly with multiple tabs open. I have had as many as 28 tabs open on FF, true it ran a little slower, but it didn't crash.

MTNGUN
07-03-2010, 11:18 AM
Evan switched to Opera ? WOW, that's major news. Evan is usually on the leading edge of computer trends. If I worked at FF, I'd be worried.

Still using FF here. I have played with Chrome and Opera, as well as several little known browsers. Page loading was noticeably slower in Chrome, it didn't have some of the add-ons that I like, and all the pages that gave me problems in FF, also gave me problems in Chrome.

I didn't spend that much time on Opera, but failed to see any advantage. Maybe I'll give it another whirl, since Evan has endorsed it. :)

Haven't seen the memory problem with FF. 93 Mb at the moment. This is all in Linux, which matters, because the Linux versions of the browsers are different than the Windoze versions, for better and for worse, mostly for worse.

Not sure what the OP means by "slower and slower ?" Are you sure the congestion is not caused by your ISP, or programs running in the background ?

My ISP (Wildblue satellite) slows to a crawl in the evening when traffic peaks. That's not the browsers fault.

Liger Zero
07-03-2010, 11:34 AM
Opera is nice but it lacks a decent ad-block program. I don't want to mess with a script or do manual removal.

Once they get an Ad Block version or something like it, then I'll switch.

lakeside53
07-03-2010, 11:37 AM
I just use IE 8. It runs fine and as for "how fine", I really don't care...

I spent my entire life in software/hardware and made very good money from it. Yes, at one point I "needed" the biggest, fastest, latest of everything, and I had it. But... In my semi retirement, I've become decidedly curmudgeonly. I hate technology. To me it needs to be like toilet paper - work as advertised and cheap. I turn on my laptop, the browser loads, and it works.

I feel the same with cars... Fast cars, efficient cars, small, big, German, Japanese, USA, hybrids, etc -phooey. To me, now just basic transportation. Oh, my 21 year old truck is even starting to look like USED TP :D

...and as for Women, my 57 year old model run fine;)

Evan
07-03-2010, 11:38 AM
Right now I have just 4 tabs open to the same web sites in IE and Opera. Opera is currently using 49 megs of ram, IE is using 106 megs. I then open a new tab to Google in both browsers. IE grabs anothe 23 megs of ram. Opera take another 1 (one) megabyte to open the page. The more tabs you have open the greater the difference becomes.

vpt
07-03-2010, 11:48 AM
I have FF and have noticed a slow down as well. I hate change though so I will stick with FF for awhile.

lazlo
07-03-2010, 12:09 PM
In my humble opinion Chrome is far and away the best of IE, FF and Chrome.

Another vote for Chrome. I switched over to Iron (Chrome build with the Phone Home stuff taken out) back when I was complaining about FF 3.5 crashing so much -- last Fall, IIRC.

I switched over entirely when Chrome added extensions, including an Ad Blocker.

Chrome has a very simple interface, with some very elegant touches: when you search for a term in the current window, it puts up an XDiff-style changelist bar on the right side of the screen, showing where all the matches are. You can click on one of the bars and it will jump you to that match. It's so subtle, I didn't even notice it for the first several days.

The Chrome download bar at the bottom of the screen is much more streamlined than FireFox's.

Deja Vu
07-03-2010, 12:46 PM
FireFox is slowing and IE is bloated. This is planned, you know.:rolleyes:
technology needs to be pushed. People feel their computers are lacking because of symptoms these browsers have. Many will go out and get the later models of hardware to support the software. Technology moves forward.

motorcyclemac
07-03-2010, 12:53 PM
I am done looking for new browsers.

It is just a bunch of hype anyway. I just plan on sticking with IE8.. I have run all the "other" browser and they always get uninstalled after updates that make them slow or notchy. IE8 works respectibly and consistantly ....not fast...not pretty....no speed dial... BUT it WORKS every time.

I just uninstalled Opera last night. They recently released a new update.... It seems like a great one. You open the program for the first time....it runs the "look at what's new page"..then you close it...and the program refuses to close... Nice update guys.. you can't navigate anywhere...you just get to fight with a non responsive program.

They are all crappy now....and as for the memory hoggin issues with IE8...I solved that...just put more RAM in..4GB...seems to be a good amount.

lakeside53
07-03-2010, 01:02 PM
Everyone has forgotten about the turtle and the hare... ok, so the turtle is real big, and the hare is.. well.. skinny and apart from goggle, undernourished.:rolleyes:

I don't care.. they both taste like chicken in stew.

winchman
07-03-2010, 01:16 PM
I usually have two windows of FF open at a time with three tabs in one and about eight in the other.

It's never been a problem, and it's always faster than I usually think.

rohart
07-03-2010, 06:31 PM
I let FF persuade me to update itself up to 3.6.3.

Then, even though I had the autoupdate switch to off, it's been trying to download 3.6.6. I know that's really a problem of 3.6.3, but I don't want it.

There's just time, when the updating pop-up window appears, to get into task manager and kill the updater.exe process. Then I just re-install 3.6.3 and I'm back in business.

I use that old faithful Proxomitron to block ads. It gives some problems, but I switch it off for some sites.

My biggest beef about FF is the appalling bookmarks system they have nowadays. I don't want a scrolling list of 11directories to contain menu choices, and there's so little space.

I want a browser that will handle bookmarks as pages. If I select a bookmark, and it's no good, I want the back button to take me back to where I was scrolling my bookmarks. I do not want to have to select bookmarks again and go through three or four levele of bookmark to select the next bookmark. And I don't want to have to devote a third of my screen to a permanent display of bookmarks.

Sigh... I'd have a go at writing my own cut down version of a browser, but the good web access procedures aren't available in the version of BCC that runs under W2K, and I don't want to have to develop under anything later.

Neil Jones
07-03-2010, 08:30 PM
Okay, I'm convinced. I'll try Google Chrome. Since Google created Android it would seem to me they have some decent developers with some really good ideas.

I've stopped using Windows Media Player completely and now use CyberLink PowerDVD. It's no where near perfect but it's pretty stable and opens more formats than Windows Media Player as well as having many more options. Much better rate of development as well.

Windows Vista sucked. Not sure how much better Windows 7 really is.

I'm still on XP and so is the shop I work for.

CCWKen
07-03-2010, 09:58 PM
Windows 7 is Vista 2.0 :D

MTNGUN
07-03-2010, 10:43 PM
I just use IE 8. It runs fine and as for "how fine", I really don't care...
You never did care much for aftermarket stuff. :)


I spent my entire life in software/hardwareI thought you were a small engine tech ?


I hate technology.
I hate some technology. But I do like computers and the net. And machining. And chainsaws. And technical forums.


my 21 year old truck is even starting to look like USED TP :D My 34 year old truck looks like the stuff that is wiped off with toilet paper.

I'm typing this in Opera. It seems slower to load pages than FF.

With the same 2 tabs open in both browsers, Opera is sucking 71 Mb, FF 42 Mb.

OK, I tried Opera (again), now I'm going back to FF.

oldtiffie
07-03-2010, 10:59 PM
Odd.

I've only ever used Internet Explorer. I have IE8 running on XP Pro and W7 Platinum and never a problem.

I have no reason to change and can't see me changing just for the sake of change.

If things work well enough and/or I can get by with them as "plain vanilla" as "out of the box" I stay with it, don't "tweak" it and leave it "as is".

Same with email.

I've always just used EA (Express Assist) but have changed to Windows Live Mail since my last computer up-grade as Microsoft will no longer support EA.

I've never seen or had the need to load or use MS Outlook or the like either.

lakeside53
07-04-2010, 02:01 AM
You never did care much for aftermarket stuff. :)

I thought you were a small engine tech ?


.


LOL... Born out of semi-retirement... My last corporate job was VP Internet Operatons, for Disney Online.:rolleyes: Then consulting... then Stihl (for fun).

Evan
07-04-2010, 02:15 AM
With the same 2 tabs open in both browsers, Opera is sucking 71 Mb, FF 42 Mb.


Open 10 tabs and see what happens. Then surf a while and close the same tabs in both and see what happens. Even more important, check how many GDI objects each program uses. If you have a lot of ram it will be GDI ram that runs out first. The usual symptom is that right click stops working.

dp
07-04-2010, 02:16 AM
We're looking for a network engineer in Bellevue :)

I retired from Expedia but had to re-enter the workforce when the economy reversed my lifetime achievements in financial planning.

lakeside53
07-04-2010, 02:19 AM
Investments? Back to work? I'm trying the ostrich approach - head buried in sand...:D

MTNGUN
07-04-2010, 08:52 AM
Open 10 tabs and see what happens. Then surf a while and close the same tabs in both and see what happens. Even more important, check how many GDI objects each program uses. If you have a lot of ram it will be GDI ram that runs out first. The usual symptom is that right click stops working.
I typically surf with 2 - 3 tabs open, so that was how I conducted my little test. Your level of multitasking far exceeds mine. :)

Doubtless both browsers would suck up more RAM as the day wore on, however, I've never come close to running out of RAM (currently using 263 Mb out of 1 Gb installed).

Opera was definitely taking longer to load pages, perhaps because it lacked an adblocker. You might not notice it if you have a good download speed, but it's a big deal on an oversubscribed satellite connection.

It's possible that the Windoze version of Opera that you are using is more efficient than the Linux version that I tried. Browsers are typically written for one OS and then "patched" to run in other OS's, usually with a loss of performance.

In any event, I'll keep an open mind. We've all seen software companies become too big and complacent and lose their edge.

D_Harris
07-04-2010, 09:05 AM
FireFox is slowing and IE is bloated. This is planned, you know.:rolleyes:
technology needs to be pushed. People feel their computers are lacking because of symptoms these browsers have. Many will go out and get the later models of hardware to support the software. Technology moves forward.

Yeah, it's planned this way. This is how the industry gets you to continue to buy more hardware, because what you have will not be powerful enough or they will cease to support it in favor of the next generation of money making apps. (Moore's law had nothing to do with being an accurate prediction. It was always business model.

And technology really doesn't "move forward" at any significant pace. My computing experience is worse now than it was in the late 90's. So what "advances" have been made?

My dial-up back then was much, much faster than my DSL is now.(This is all by design also).

The tech industry can not come up with any real improvements anymore. So they've become really good at convincing the public that advances in the state of the art are continuing. They do it by sabotaging the existing software, while labeling it outdated, or just drop support for it to make money elsewhere.

This is why there are so many conflicting hardware and software standards.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

kendall
07-04-2010, 11:16 AM
My biggest beef about FF is the appalling bookmarks system they have nowadays. I don't want a scrolling list of 11directories to contain menu choices, and there's so little space.

I want a browser that will handle bookmarks as pages. If I select a bookmark, and it's no good, I want the back button to take me back to where I was scrolling my bookmarks. I do not want to have to select bookmarks again and go through three or four levele of bookmark to select the next bookmark. And I don't want to have to devote a third of my screen to a permanent display of bookmarks.

That's why I stick with Seamonkey, bookmarks are easily managed, can be opened in a separate window so they stay where they are when you open one. And Most importantly for me, when I hit bookmark, it bookmarks the page without asking where/how/why I would like to file it. Important to me because if I'm bookmarking a bunch of pages, odds are they are all related, so I have no desire to play around just to save the bookmark in the same place I saved the last one. just mark it and I can sort it later if I want, and default is to list them by date so they're already sorted that far, so if I need it I just need the date I saved it.

I've tried nearly every browser available, IE, FF, Chrome etc, and the bookmark and tab system on most are what I dislike. Really dislike the moving close x on FF, leave it in one spot. When I have a lot of tabs open, it's sometime impossible to find the X

A common browsing session for me is to have 5 or more instances of seamonkey open with a dozen tabs or more open in each,There have been times when researching that I've had over thirty tabs open. Seamonkey doesn't complain in the least

clutch
07-04-2010, 11:35 AM
FF is working fine on my w2ksp4 box. I use flash block and tree style tabs to manage the many pages I have open.

As far as memory, who cares, that is what virtual memory is for.

The one issue that can kill FF for me is viewing pdfs inside a webpage. I suspect it is an Adobe fault with their plugins since I've had it happen with IE, FF and Seamonkey.

Clutch

kendall
07-04-2010, 12:06 PM
And technology really doesn't "move forward" at any significant pace. My computing experience is worse now than it was in the late 90's. So what "advances" have been made?

My dial-up back then was much, much faster than my DSL is now.(This is all by design also).


Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Agree with some of that, microsoft upgraded many of their programs by simply changing the version number on the files. to force users to upgrade. Many of their new version files could be opened in older versions simply by changing that number. The same approach was used by several software companies. (hey, the method for, and the results of, adding 3+3 is pretty much a standard right?)

As far as hardware though, back in the dial up days (I've been around since 300 baud was the thing to have!) BBS pages loaded at comparable speed as web pages do today with DSL or cable, difference is the data that's transferred. Back then 'pages' were pure ascii, today you get tons of graphics and occasional music that slows down the transfer of the actual data.

As technology moves along people buy faster computers, and want more than a simple grid with numbers in it. So programmers add more eye candy to programs, and the 'fluff' to data ratio increases, add enough eye candy and you really don't 'see' a huge improvement in actual data transfer.

Today, the entire 20 meg hard drive (big at the time!) on my old 386 could be transferred in a few minutes, comparable modern programs and data files would fill a 20 gig drive, and a huge chunk of the day to transfer. Data hasn't changed, it's the presentation of that data that has.

kendall
07-04-2010, 12:09 PM
FF is working fine on my w2ksp4 box. I use flash block and tree style tabs to manage the many pages I have open.

As far as memory, who cares, that is what virtual memory is for.

The one issue that can kill FF for me is viewing pdfs inside a webpage. I suspect it is an Adobe fault with their plugins since I've had it happen with IE, FF and Seamonkey.

Clutch


Switch to FOXIT, then deselect view as web page, or change the install so it doesn't integrate with the browser.
I also dislike the browser view.

KEn.

RussZHC
07-04-2010, 08:23 PM
2nd FOXIT, have not used Adobe, per se, in years...bothers me though that some sites, somehow (I am not claiming to be computer saive) only "work" in Adobe. All that I have read/heard, Adobe is a large cause of memory hogging etc. etc.

My process has been to download and install and then update until whatever "it" is starts to go a bit flaky and then hopefully return to the version just before that happened and turn off all updating processes. Switch whatever "free" security is available about every 6 months, just because that seems to be about the average before my computer's resources get bogged down.

Currently using FF, am looking at Opera and will now consider Chrome as well.

John Stevenson
07-04-2010, 08:39 PM
I wanted to look at Bob Warfields G Wizard program but it uses an adobe installer to run and I won't allow that on my machines.

Why Adobe ? never come across that before.

.

Hollowbuilt
07-04-2010, 09:53 PM
When I first tried to post on this list, I was using FF as the browser. I could log on, but could not post. Evan told me to use Opera......it works.:D
Chris

nheng
07-04-2010, 11:08 PM
I used to try Opera once a year or so but it never cut it before. Disabled Adblock plus and Noscript in Firefox and restarted it a few minutes ago.

Downloaded the latest Opera and imported the Firefox bookmarks.

Makes Firefox look like a slug. Will see how it works out for a few days.

Den

lazlo
07-04-2010, 11:23 PM
I used to try Opera once a year or so but it never cut it before. Disabled Adblock plus and Noscript in Firefox and restarted it a few minutes ago.

PC Magazine
http://images.pcworld.com//news/graphics/168623-browser_test_2_chart2_original.jpg

Futuremark Peacemaker Browser Benchmarks:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u15/rtgeorge_album/Browserbenchmarks.png

nheng
07-05-2010, 12:06 AM
Looks like Opera is as fast as you can get for the Peacemaker benchmark without venturing into a Google product ;)

I also noticed that with Opera, Youtube videos now play almost immediately and I can also move the time marker anywhere within the vid and get almost immediate play at the selected point. Never had that performance in Firefox.

Of course, every page places it's own demands on the browser. In some cases, Firefox may just not be handling various content as well.

Den