PDA

View Full Version : DOR Problem. Sympathy Needed.



gnm109
07-03-2010, 12:15 PM
Almost exactly a year ago, June, 2009, I bought and installed a Mitutoyo 2 Axis KA kit with two magnetic AT715 Scales. The unit is on my 15" X 50" Webb 4 VH Mill. It was purchased on eBay.

The X-axis measures 36" with 41+" total length and the Y-axis measures 16" and is 21+" long.

Just yesterday, I was using the mill with the DRO on and in moving the Y-axis, the DRO showed an error code 40. That means trouble with the scale. The error code only comes up on one portion of travel for about 2" on the outer portion of travel when the table is moved outwards. The rest of the scale reads normally and teh X-axis is still working fine.

I looked in my original paperwork and Mitutoyo says to send and any failed units back to the dealer. The dealer's invoice says to send any failed units to Mitutoyo. In other words, I'm on my own.

The Mitutoyo documents state that the units (KA DRO and two AT715 scales) have a 2 year warranty. They say to send the warranty information to them if something fails.

For the record, the units were very carefully installed and have had covers on them to keep out chips and oil. The are very clean and have worked perfectly up to yesterday.

I was wondering if anyone has experience with Mitutoyo on warranty service. I'm in California and there is a factory warranty station in Carson CA (Southern California). I will be contacting them on Tuesday after the Fourth of July. I was just wondering is anyone has been down this road before?

By the way, I think that Murphy's Law should have another line item added. Say, "If a thing can fail, it will fail at the least opportune time, usually on a long Holiday weekend so that you are most highly inconvenienced. If you are a hobby machinist, that will force you actually to converse with your wife on trivial matters and if you are professional machine shop owner, that will force the shutdown of the entire shop until the offending part is repaired or replaced."

Have you noticed how these things always break on long holidays?

Please place any thoughts on Mitutoyo warranty matters along with sincere expressions of sympathy, derisive comments and scorn below. Thanks in advance. :D


EDIT: Durn. I mean t to say DRO Problem......must be a bd keyboard.

leesr
07-03-2010, 02:18 PM
Never had to to do repair but found this link it may or may not be helpfull

http://www.mitutoyo.com/template2.aspx?id=22

Cheers
Leesr

Deja Vu
07-03-2010, 02:38 PM
If it's just going haywire through a short section of the rail, then I'd suspect a small particle got in and maybe drags for a short distance from some burr that catches it in there someplace.
The particle temporarily shorts/blocks the scale someplace.

How else could the DRO malfunction at only a portion of the segment?

Black_Moons
07-03-2010, 03:15 PM
Could it be the scale is slightly warped or distorted? Maybe just remounting it might help?

gnm109
07-03-2010, 03:15 PM
Never had to to do repair but found this link it may or may not be helpfull

http://www.mitutoyo.com/template2.aspx?id=22

Cheers
Leesr


Thanks. I originally said Carson, CA but I see on your link that the nearest repair station is in the City of Industry. I'll be calling them first thing Tuesday after the National Holiday.

Since I've posted this, I've seen a recent Mitutoyo Brochure that states that there is a 5 year limited warranty on the AT715 Magnetic units. That wold be for anything other than obvious damage or mistreatment. I hope that holds up. Mine still looks like new.


Happy Fourth of July. It's our Country's Birthday! :D

gnm109
07-03-2010, 03:23 PM
If it's just going haywire through a short section of the rail, then I'd suspect a small particle got in and maybe drags for a short distance from some burr that catches it in there someplace.
The particle temporarily shorts/blocks the scale someplace.

How else could the DOR malfunction at only a portion of the segment?


I would agree with you ordinarily and maybe you are correct. That said, there is a plastic lip seal on the slot in which the thin sensor bracket rides. That closes the area above where the magnetic portion resides in front of and behind the sliding member.

Furthermore, I don't use flood coolant and I have 1-1/2" X 2-1/2" aluminum angle covers on both sensors. They are held in place with 3-M double sided tape. There really is no dirt or swarf anywhere near the sensor. I also pulled the lip seal open with a Q-tip and looked at the sides where the sensors are mounted and it appears to be very clean.

I was also extremely careful in installing the DRO last year. The ledger bar that the unit mounts on was set perfectly so that the unit would maintain its alignment all along its travel.

The dead portion that gives an "Error Code 40" is only about 2" long, The scale is OK on either side. It's a mystery.

When I get to talk to the Mitutoyo people next week, I'll report back. I'm sure that others with Mitutoyo equipment will want to know since it really should be a warranty issue. I've probably only used the unit for no more than 10 hours. I don't use it for everything I do on the mill anyway, like drillnig holes and face milling anyway.

Thanks to all.

gnm109
07-03-2010, 03:34 PM
Could it be the scale is slightly warped or distorted? Maybe just remounting it might help?

No, that's a good suggestion but I've ruled that out. The unit mounts with a 1/4-20 screw on each end on the factory ledger bar mount. The sliding sensor is held to the stock Mitutoyo mount with two 10-24 screws, supplied in the kit. The unit sits perfectly flat on the bar and alignment was by the book. As I mentioned above, the unit still looks like new. Furthermore, the X-scale is still going strong.....like Yul Brynner said in the movie "Anna and the King of Siam"...."Is a Puzzlement!".

I've tested it off of the machine with the same results. I sure wish it was something simple. If Mitutoyo will come through, fine. Otherwise, I'll have to get out the old Visa card. I'm pretty sure that they'll help me out, though.

Meantime, I can still use the mill. Without the DRO I can revert back to my original tolerances.......+/- .125 on everything. LOL,.

There is no free lunch, is there? :(

Walter
07-04-2010, 12:53 AM
Tanstaafl.. RAH

Circlip
07-04-2010, 08:34 AM
"Crap on your parade day" faults are programmed into ALL foreign built electronics. Meant to get you to test the aerodynamic properties of them:D

It's called "Built in buy another" syndrome.

Regards Ian

Oh, forgot, they do that with machinery too, but thats from new.

John Stevenson
07-04-2010, 09:54 AM
So what's the answer Ian ?
Buy a Newall for which you pay double the price which is the same as buying a spare.

BTW has anyone priced a Newall in the US and one in the UK ?
I queries the nearly double price difference and was told that's what the market can stand.

Any company that says that to me can take a flying leap, sooner or later they will have to conform or go under.

PixMan
07-04-2010, 10:27 AM
I don't think I can agree with Ian on this one. My dad's 1984-vintage Victor lathe came to us with an ancient Mitutoyo DRO unit and AT102 scales installed. The unit and scales show every sign of having been installed when the machine was new, and the machine was in near-daily use at a job shop for 20 years.

The only problem I'd found was that of my own making. The lathe had its OE 3-jaw chuck on it when we got it, and it appeared to have never been removed. (The D1-6 cam locks were caked with goop.) I removed that chuck and fitted a 5C collet closer. When I did, I never checked the travel limits of the Z axis scale. Seems I knocked the reader out of whack because the scale behind and below the ways to the rear of the machine needed to be moved 4-1/2" closer to the spindle if we were to be using the carriage close to the spindle nose.

The reader head wore through the stalk that extends the reader itself up into the scale area, and it broke off. I didn't even realize what was wrong right away, the readout for the Z axis just stopped moving even though the carriage was being run from left to right. Quite a surprise when I looked in back.

Mitutoyo's tech support people didn't just try to push me into buying a new unit. They explained all of my options. I could replace just the reader head for $400, but they were currently out of stock with a 9-week wait. I could replace that 800mm scale complete assembly (new reader head & scale) for $600, in stock for immediate shipment. I could buy a shorter 300mm scale assembly for about $500, replace my X-axis and use the head from my current X unit in the existing Z axis scale.

So I bought a New Old Stock 120mm assembly from an Ebay seller for $155 and solved the problem. Mitutoyo was willing to sell me parts, sub-assemblies, or take the unit in and repair it themselves but never once suggested I go out and buy a complete new unit from them. They apologized for not having the parts in stock for a 20+ year-old unit. While their prices for parts or replacement scales was outrageous (though buying through a distributor could be a lot cheaper), they were pleasant to deal with and did not arbitrarily obsolete a perfectly good product.

BTW, it took me about 2 or 3 hours to move the Z axis scale toward the spindle by the 4-1/2", and there's still no danger of damage on the other end. A big steel block from the factory stops the carriage movement exactly at the safe limit of travel for that scale.

gnm109
07-04-2010, 11:54 AM
So what's the answer Ian ?
Buy a Newall for which you pay double the price which is the same as buying a spare.

BTW has anyone priced a Newall in the US and one in the UK ?
I queries the nearly double price difference and was told that's what the market can stand.

Any company that says that to me can take a flying leap, sooner or later they will have to conform or go under.


If I ever buy another DRO (Note correct spelling of acronym), it won't be an expensive one. I've heard that the $400 DRO kits for mills and lathes from the Singapore sellers are working just fine, thank you. For the typical Hobby guy, they are just fine. (This is the Home Shop Machinist site, isn't it? )

:)

lakeside53
07-04-2010, 01:58 PM
So what's the answer Ian ?
Buy a Newall for which you pay double the price which is the same as buying a spare.

BTW has anyone priced a Newall in the US and one in the UK ?
I queries the nearly double price difference and was told that's what the market can stand.

Any company that says that to me can take a flying leap, sooner or later they will have to conform or go under.


Which was more? I'm seriously looking at a Newall here ($$)... for me it's more of a mount issue - there are no cheap glass dro scales that can fit where I need them, and the minature glass scales (like Senc50) are not cheap, and somewhat fragile.


My 1989 Anilam scales in the BP are chugging along quite nicely, as are both ancient heads...


I though all stuff was priced at what the market could bare... :rolleyes:

John Stevenson
07-04-2010, 02:43 PM
Lakeside,
It was a few years ago so the prices my not be dead on but I was looking at replacing the very dated and old Heidenhain system on the Bridgy.

Newell wanted 900 UKP for a two axis system, normal scales, no need for the compact ones, at the time they were $900 in the US but it was naerly two dollars to the pound, add that they are mande in the UK and have to be shipped to the US that makes it half price.

I rang Newell who frankly were not interested 900 take it or leave it.

When I mentioned I might as well buy in the States and ship back they got all snotty and said there would be no support or warrenty.

Shortly after this the Heidenhain scales did go per shaped and I bought a Sino 3 axis unit off a UK reseller for 399,
since then I have bought 2 more units off the same guy and if my forthcoming tool gloat goes ahead next week I'm in the market for another 2 axis unit.

Newall ? Who are they ?

.