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View Full Version : The 'What is this tool' thread.



vpt
07-22-2010, 03:12 PM
There seems to be a quite a few 'What tool is this, ID this tool, what is this tool called, etc.' threads. I finally have a tool that I am clueless about and was pondering over how to write up my 'What is this tool' thread. Then I thought about how many of these threads exist and thought it would be nice to have one thread for all of them. I guess I'll see how it goes.





Anyhow here is my 'What is it' tool that I found today while cleaning of the back ledge of my work bench. I remember this tool being in my grandfathers drill box since I can remember but have never seen it used or asked what it was for.

I assume the triangle shaft is chucked in the drill, if you spin this shaft the two parts of the body counter rotate with each other. The output shaft can be turned counter clockwise or clockwise from a "neutral" position. Turning the output shaft clockwise moves the shaft in about a 1/2" and locks it with the upper body. If you than turn the input shaft and hold the lower body with your hand the output shaft will turn at a estimated 20:1 reduction in the same direction the input shaft is turned. Turning the output shaft in the counter wise direction it locks with the lower body and the same deal happens, however the input and output shaft turn in opposite directions from each other.

Writings:
Supreme Chicago Pat.No.2780944

On the other side it says: Model number 4100


Pics:

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7479/drill001.jpg

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3228/drill004.jpg

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9818/drill005.jpg

PeteM
07-22-2010, 03:16 PM
It's a tapping head. Hold the body to keep it from rotating. Push/pull to engage forward and reverse.

DFMiller
07-22-2010, 03:16 PM
Tapping head is my guess

gwilson
07-22-2010, 03:17 PM
That is a device you put on your electric drill to either slow it down,or speed it up. I can't recall if it works 2 way. I've had one since the 50's,and never use it.

Toolguy
07-22-2010, 03:19 PM
That is a speed reducer to drive screws with. The triangle end goes in the drill chuck and a screwdriver bit, usually phillips, in the other end. With the drill turning, hold one half stationary and it turns the screwdriver forward. Hold the other half and it reverses.

dp
07-22-2010, 03:25 PM
Agree on the speed reducer. If it were a tapping head it would be adjustable for setting the torque. Given it is also necessary to grip the housing to get the speed reduction to work, it is also a crude clutch.

KIMFAB
07-22-2010, 03:54 PM
Actually it is a power screwdriver attachment. My dad had one when I was a kid.
It was one of the first things he bought with the money he had left over when he quit smoking.

Doc Nickel
07-22-2010, 04:19 PM
I have that exact item, that I bought for about a dollar at the local Junque Shoppe. I, too, thought it was a tapping head, but wasn't sure- I figured an early, cheap version at worst, but hey, for a buck, why not?

When I got it home, it didn't act- moving the parts by hand- like a classic tapping head, so I was stymied a bit. I'd been meaning to post it here for a "what is it?" but looks like I got beaten to it. :)

Not surprised it's a speed reducer/clutch, since drills with a variable-speed trigger (or really, even reverse) is a relatively recent innovation. I have more than a few older hand drills where all you get is on and off, righthand twist only.

I might have to give it a try, just to see how it works.

Doc.

PixMan
07-22-2010, 04:21 PM
Not all tapping heads have adjustable torque. In fact, most don't. That unit appears to be a speed reducer as It doesn't seem to have anyplace to screw in an anti-rotational rod to the body, and the exit end doesn't seem to have a collet chuck meant for taps.

Willy
07-22-2010, 04:25 PM
Yep, it's definitely an old portable drill speed reducer.
I used to see them all the time, but with the advent of variable speed drills I haven't seen one in years.

Here's a couple of links you may find interesting:

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-tool-versamatic-4100-drill-speed-reducer


http://books.google.ca/books?id=fN8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA223&lpg=PA223&dq=versamatic+supreme+speed+reducer&source=bl&ots=HGgdOKiu1w&sig=Ywa2JANagykVIEORdjWGlGPMKgw&hl=en&ei=XqhITKb2Loi4sQO04pRJ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=versamatic%20supreme%20speed%20reducer&f=false

lugnut
07-22-2010, 05:05 PM
A search in the google patents search (2780944) says is a REVERSIBLE DRIVE FOR POWER TOOLS issued in Feb 1957
I think my Dad had one.

Rustybolt
07-22-2010, 06:25 PM
It's for offhand tapping. Push to thread. Pull back to back out. Mcmaster Carr used to sell them.
Then again, what haven't the sold.

brian Rupnow
07-22-2010, 06:38 PM
Its a planetary gear reducer/screw driver. It may even have "Versamatic" stamped on it somewhere. They were the hot ticket before variable speed drills and power screwdrivers. You put a screwdriver in one end and chucked the other end in your 1/4" power drill. Depending on whether you held the top section or the bottom section stationary, it would drive the screw in, or reverse and drive the screw out. My dad and I used to build wooden rowboats back in the 1950's. and the plywood bottoms got a brass screw every 2" all the way around the perimeter of the boat. At first we did it all with hand screwdrivers:eek: :eek: ---finally bought one of those units, and thought it was the finest thing since sliced bread!!!----Brian

ammcoman2
07-22-2010, 06:42 PM
Picked up the exact same item at a flea market ($1) a few years ago. It is a speed reducer - 7:1 IIRC. It had worn bushings so I cut it open. It has a very well made planetary gear system which I plan to use on something someday!!!

Geoff

Oldbrock
07-22-2010, 06:43 PM
I have the identical speed reducer, Bought it when building a fence and used robertson screws. Have not used it in a coons age since having variable speed drills and screw guns. Peter

RobbieKnobbie
07-22-2010, 07:03 PM
NO NO NO NO NO!

It's not a speed reducer, It's not a tapper. It's variable torque alpha-alloy sodium-ion electric convertible motorcycle custom footpeg cover.

SHEESH!

vpt
07-22-2010, 09:35 PM
Perfect! Thank you everyone. It does seem correct for driving screws with a one speed drill. I am curious about the tapping potential it has now.

Liger Zero
07-22-2010, 10:11 PM
NO NO NO NO NO!

It's not a speed reducer, It's not a tapper. It's variable torque alpha-alloy sodium-ion electric convertible motorcycle custom footpeg cover.

SHEESH!


:eek: SHUSH! DON'T SAY MOTORCYCLE YOU'LL ATTRACT THAT WEIRDO BACK HERE!

J Tiers
07-22-2010, 11:02 PM
Even with a variable speed drill that is useful...... if you can hold onto it....

Variable speed doesn't do much for torque.

The speed reducer multiplies torque in reverse proportion to speed, so it will allow you to do things your drill cannot do directly, so long as you can hold the sleeve and provide the counter-torque (which is easier since it is at something of a mechanical advantage).

bruto
07-22-2010, 11:35 PM
Supreme made a couple of different versions of this tool. The 4100 seen here reverses when you screw the bit out all the way and hold the drive end collar, and runs forward when you screw the bit in all the way and hold the driven-end collar. A simpler model, the 4600, works only in one direction but is more compact. These were quite the thing back in the old days when variable speed reversible drills were uncommon.

If you actually want to use one of these things, they are designed for the large size Yankee screwdriver bits, which have a stepped end and a little notch for locking.

* I may be unclear on which collar is which here. Forward, the collar at the output end, reverse, the collar at the input end.

KIMFAB
07-23-2010, 12:58 PM
NO NO NO NO NO!

It's not a speed reducer, It's not a tapper. It's variable torque alpha-alloy sodium-ion electric convertible motorcycle custom footpeg cover.

SHEESH!

You forgot to mention that it is only $19.95 and if you order today you get a second one free.

Deja Vu
07-23-2010, 03:41 PM
Okay, Movin' on...... What in the world is THIS? What was it used for? I decided to press it up against the wire wheel for a bit.
The handle end is about the size for a good hand grip.
http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/78/43/42124378/photos/data/image1.jpg

http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/78/43/42124378/photos/data/image2.jpg

Jim Caudill
07-23-2010, 04:22 PM
Looks like a body working tool. Belongs in the drawer with all the other dollys.

lugnut
07-23-2010, 04:32 PM
I think Jim is right, as I remember it's called a "Spoon or slapping spoon". Not much straightening happening these days in body and fender work. It's mostly replace.

krutch
07-23-2010, 04:45 PM
:eek: SHUSH! DON'T SAY MOTORCYCLE YOU'LL ATTRACT THAT WEIRDO BACK HERE!


I am into motorsickles and I'm definitely weird, and proud of it. So LZ could be refering to me.
But whether he is or not, I have one of the reverser tools in the first posting. It was purchased as a tapping assecessory with collet to hold various taps. The one I have is from American Gator- Agusta, Michigan and is #71117. I have the plain box but not the instructions. AIR, one would hold the spining outer housing to cause the tap to turn. Grabbing the top half housing turns one way, and bottom half turn the other. I never used it, but it has 5 collets and the tri flat arbor. The arbor is a screw in type and can be removed to attach to any machine one could mate up to.
My .0002 cents

krutch
07-23-2010, 04:50 PM
As to the 'bent spoon' tool, it looks similar to one used in leather work, ie saddle making. But what does a motorsickle weirdo know?

Jim Caudill
07-23-2010, 05:45 PM
http://www.eastwood.com/long-curved-body-spoon-model-1054.html?reltype=2&parent_id=1167

RetiredFAE
07-23-2010, 05:50 PM
Sure it's not an industrial duty shoe horn? Worked in a shoe store a bit as a kid, could have used one like that when it came time to wedging 500 pound Mrs. MacGillicuddy's dainty size 13's into the size 7's she always swore she wore!

johnhurd
07-23-2010, 05:59 PM
Of course you could have googled the Pat. #

Search Results

chrome://litmus-ff/skin/small/lvl2.pngReversible drive for power tools - Patent 2780944 (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2780944.html)

United States Patent 2780944. Inventors: Ondeck, Elmer J. Publication Date: 02/12/1957. Export Citation: Click for automatic bibliography generation ...guess I should a finished reading the thread............. :(

Liger Zero
07-23-2010, 07:44 PM
I am into motorsickles and I'm definitely weird, and proud of it. So LZ could be refering to me.

No no, not you. :p That "variable geometry" motorcycle moron from a few weeks ago. :D

Deja Vu
07-23-2010, 09:16 PM
http://www.eastwood.com/long-curved-body-spoon-model-1054.html?reltype=2&parent_id=1167

Thanks Jim, Now we can move on to the THIRD entry of the "what is it?" items before it becomes lost in a myriad of pages. :)

bruto
07-23-2010, 10:01 PM
By the way, back to the Supreme Versamatics, I forgot to mention that the end the screwdriver goes into has a threaded sleeve which looks a bit like a collet chuck but is not. It's just a thread protector, underneath which is a 1/2 x 20 thread allowing you to mount a chuck.

RobbieKnobbie
07-23-2010, 11:44 PM
Turns out McMaster STILL sells them...
Tapping Adapter for Portable Drills (http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/2519/=83e620)

Item number 2559A14 in case that link doesn't werk

aostling
07-24-2010, 12:06 AM
Now that the OP tool has been identified, I'll ask what is this machine, which I saw sitting in a vacant lot in Tempe two days ago. It almost looks like a half-assed Pelton wheel, driving some unknown mechanism. I have no idea what it could be for.


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/Tempeturbine.jpg


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/Tempepelton.jpg

danlb
07-24-2010, 12:19 AM
Looks to be a gin of some sort. The rollers with the pins that stick out on the far side (and retract on the near side) would be great for pulling in cotton or other fiberous things into the rollers.

Dan

bruto
07-24-2010, 12:21 AM
It's changed a little in end fittings, but it's definitely the same basic device. And of course, it's kept up with inflation, being now about 16 times more expensive than it used to be. Here's an ad for the older style one, including the non reversing "Versa Mate."

http://books.google.com/books?id=2SUDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA240&lpg=PA240&dq=versamatic+drill+adapter&source=bl&ots=b3jOkgssma&sig=IL6QUHAh43PAPji8XUr56ZhW-6g&hl=en&ei=vWhKTLOqL4T78Aau86Q2&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CDMQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=versamatic%20drill%20adapter&f=false

aostling
07-24-2010, 12:26 AM
Looks to be a gin of some sort.

Dan

That could be. This is not far from cotton country; nearby Pima County is where Pima cotton was first planted. Cotton is grown on the Indian reservations surrounding Phoenix.

bruto
07-24-2010, 12:39 AM
The latest whatsis looks very much like the innards of an old corn chopper. I can't tell from the picture whether there's any mowing mechanism on the unseen side of it, but the usual form of these would have a sickle bar and a bit more structure and mechanism to direct the corn into the rollers. The chopper acts also as a fan to blow the silage into a waiting wagon. These things are usually geared up and spin at a frightful speed. I have a somewhat newer International corn chopper modified to serve as a brush chipper. It takes a few minutes to coast down when turned off.

lugnut
07-24-2010, 12:53 AM
There appears to be a conveyor chain on the under side and the four rollers on the top to guide and feed in WHAT EVER into the chopper/blower that discharges into the pipe that is missing on the discharge side of the whirly thing. I think it's hay chopper.:confused:OR it's from the set of the soylent green movie

bruto
07-24-2010, 12:59 AM
My rough guess is a very old Gehl silage chopper.

vpt
07-24-2010, 01:27 PM
The latest whatsis looks very much like the innards of an old corn chopper. I can't tell from the picture whether there's any mowing mechanism on the unseen side of it, but the usual form of these would have a sickle bar and a bit more structure and mechanism to direct the corn into the rollers. The chopper acts also as a fan to blow the silage into a waiting wagon. These things are usually geared up and spin at a frightful speed. I have a somewhat newer International corn chopper modified to serve as a brush chipper. It takes a few minutes to coast down when turned off.


There was some thing like that on pawn stars not long ago. This one is kind of similar.



BTW thanks for the help with the reversible driver guys! I had no idea.

JCHannum
07-24-2010, 01:49 PM
My rough guess is a very old Gehl silage chopper.

Looks like you nailed it;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbBms55l23c&feature=related

Arcane
07-24-2010, 02:17 PM
It appears to be for stationary useage, the wheels just for transporting from work site to work site. It looks to be driven by a flat belt. The driven wheel is on the near end, it's the six spoke item with the crossbars on the spokes. I would have expected the driven wheel to be flat, possibly the material being blown tended to build up fairly quickly unless the wheel was as shown? The rollers would suggest it takes in bulk material, possible baled, to feed it into the blower. The very light colored roller right in front could be a shredder. I think it was used to fill silos/bins for storage.

Jim H...that tractor in the video should be very familiar to Evan.

jdunmyer
07-24-2010, 02:26 PM
That's a silage chopper/blower, used for filling a silo. You'd feed bundles of corn (back when they did that) onto a conveyor that led to the drum with the prongs, which controlled the feed into the big wheel. That chopped it up (there should be some knives on the side of the big wheel), then blew the stuff up the discharge pipe to the top of the silo. It might be 40 feet or more to the top.

JCHannum
07-24-2010, 02:56 PM
It appears to be for stationary useage, the wheels just for transporting from work site to work site. It looks to be driven by a flat belt. The driven wheel is on the near end, it's the six spoke item with the crossbars on the spokes. I would have expected the driven wheel to be flat, possibly the material being blown tended to build up fairly quickly unless the wheel was as shown? The rollers would suggest it takes in bulk material, possible baled, to feed it into the blower. The very light colored roller right in front could be a shredder. I think it was used to fill silos/bins for storage.

Jim H...that tractor in the video should be very familiar to Evan.

The tractor is probably familiar to just about anyone involved with farm equipment of the era. The power unit is a Le Roi.

Arcane
07-24-2010, 03:01 PM
It is a "spoker" Model D built from 1923 to 1926 inclusive. After 1926, they went to a solid flywheel. :)

Some people wrongly believe a "spoker" refers to the steel wheel having spokes, but it really refers to the flywheel. There's a little useless FYI for you! :D

krutch
07-24-2010, 05:05 PM
No no, not you. :p That "variable geometry" motorcycle moron from a few weeks ago. :D


OK, the guy that was looking for 'investers'? Yeah, I ain't that weird.