Find myself in need of a mill

[odin]

Hello all,

Newbie here (let the flogging comence) and happy to have found this site. Been reading allot of posts from here as a result of web searches so I wanted to sign up and read more.

I am a woodworker by trade, and currently run a buisness making custom laminated cores for the action sports industry (skis, snowboards, etc). However the work I do has gravitated lately towards building CNC routers for our clients (and others).

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n406/wednesdayskateboards/043-1.jpg http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n406/wednesdayskateboards/046-1.jpg

The machines came about by my need to have one for our shop. There wasn't much in the way of CNC on the open market that was sized or purposed for the snowboard/skateboard industry short of custom built. We had a customer willing to take a chance so we built him a machine.


Our first units where mostly wood frames with some aluminum for reinforcement. They had allot of room for improvement.


We have since finalized an all Aluminum machine design (rails and gantry) that far out performs our first attempts. It has also become quite popular and as such I have a few more to make.


Our problem is however, that we have a woodworking shop. We have a quality machinist down the road who handles the majority of our real machining needs but we are left with allot of fabrication that we can do here.


While we have had a few orders for our CNC, that still hasn't afforded the luxury running out and buying a mill. We haven't even been able to make a CNC for our shop yet :mad:


Also waching the machinist over the past few months has done little more than fuel the need for a real machine and trying to find a way to fund it.


I have been holding on to several items left over from our older machines thinking I would just build a CNC mill and have at it. The reality of that is there isn't any time for a new build right now.


More importantly I feel it's proper to learn about a mill, how it works and why, and how to use one before even attempting to build one to do the job.


I have these items from old stock, and I have been looking to liquidate them to fund a mill purchase. This forum as far as I can tell doesn't offer a classifieds section (unless I am blind, which is very possible) and frowns on posting things for sale.


I'm new here and would like to continue on here so I will not list anything. However I am looking for help to get things moving in the right direction sooner than later.


If anyone has need of some new (old stock) CNC related electronics or components, I may be able to help.


Thanks all for taking the time.

MC (and crew)

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n406/wednesdayskateboards/053-1.jpg

[Dr Stan]

One source I recommend is Craig's List. Try the following as a search technique:

item: site: craigslist.org

or

"item name": site: craigslist.org

A couple of nuances to point out. Make sure you put two spaces after the first colon. If you are searching for an item that consists of two or more words place quotes around the phrase.

You could also look at the classifieds over at Practical Machinist. One word of advice. Say out of the discussions as they will only lead to problems. You can look at the classifieds without joining.

One question. Do you really need a CNC mill, or would a conventional mill suit your needs? Just a thought.

Sounds like you have a good venture going and your routers look very good.

BTW, welcome to the forum (AKA nuthouse). :D

[Black_Moons]

Maybe im crazy oldschool, But could'nt you just make a template and buy 10 guys manual routers with ball bearing template following bits?

Assumeing these snowboards laminates all have to be the same size before laminating.

[uncle pete]

Odin,
Welcome. Do yourself a favor and buy a older copy or a brand new one of "Machinery's Handbook" You'll find a huge ammout of info for milling, cutting tools, Drills/taps, Feeds and speeds for various materials and a huge ammount of what are industry standards for just about anything you can think of when it comes to machining. Also buy every single book you can find about mills and milling. This will at least give you the theory and this place plus time in the seat will give you the rest. Your CNC router experience will give you a far shorter learning curve than say someone with absolutley no experience. The techniques are basicly the same but the material and tollerances are obviously different.

Edit, It's also not just the initial cost of a mill but the tooling can far exceed that cost by a wide margin too.

Pete

[odin]

Thanks all for the comments..

Uncle Pete - I will definately check into that thanks.

Dr Stan - Good info, thanks. I actually am looking for a manual mill. Not looking for automated machining of metals just yet. I caught the bug, plus I really could use a more precise way of making parts.

Black_Moons - You betcha! However thickness profiling cores can take upto 2 hours by hand using jigs and patterns which all need to be precisely milled in the first place. Hand jigs and fixtures also promote "lift" in the piece being milled as most clamps or ways to hold it down will be in the way of the cuts. That's where the vacuum hold down table comes in handy.

Our customers use these machines not only to make their products but the tooling they need to build them. It would take us about 3 hours per core to mill and machine the shape, holes and thicknesses using hand tools and routers with templates and jigs. This machine is set up to handle multiple cores/boards and will do the job in less than 1/3 the time. For a small/garage based company it can mean the ability to compete with large manufacturers.

MC

[odin]

Well I spent about 3 hours or so at my machinists place yesterday being educated in the ways of milling. Wow :p

"You don't know what you don't know...until you know. You know?" and having recently been awakened to the fact I need a mill of my own; yesterday simply cemented in my soul, lol.

In those short hours he was able to accomplish more than I could currently do in a week. By the end of it all I was able to recognize and begin to comprehend the myriad of knobs, levers, and wheels on his beast of a machine. A 50's model Cinncinatti (#2 I belive), power everything, just super cool.

I am pretty stoked about the day and just wanted to share.

MC

[Rex]

MC, post your location. Might be someone here local to you that could help you spot available machines. Or they may have a spare to offer

[odin]

Good point Rex. Have updated my profile information so it's listed for all but...

We are located in North East North Carolina. It's a coastal region often called the Outer Banks (Kitty Hawk, Nags Head, Hatteras, etc) roughly an hour to the south of Norfolk VA.

Looks like I have managed to sell/return all of my overstock items and will start seriously hunting for a mill today. Pretty much exhausted the majority of internet searches I can find on them.

I am dissapointed that there isn't much in the way of folks building or retro fitting a manual mill. I am digging the Sieg type mills (x2/x3) and the amount of available parts for them; Both factory and aftermarket.

I would like to see if anyone has used one of these platforms for a machine build that doesn't involve converting to CNC though.

Just off the top of my head.... A conversion for the X2 that would allow the head to pivot as on the X3. Couple that with a column support reinforcement and someone would have a nice aftermarket item to peddle.

But I ramble.....

MC

[Rex]

Just buy the X3 and be done with it.
It's a fine mill, if your intended projects fit within it's work envelope.

The next step up in new imports would be the 6x26 miniature knee mills offered by several vendors. These are essential a 3/4-scale Bridgeport.
Bigger work envelope, and the knee is very desirable.