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View Full Version : Seig x2 bullet puller?



websterz
08-06-2010, 12:37 AM
I am demilling some ammo and need to pull a few 30 caliber bullets. The rounds mic out at .311 and I was thinking about chucking the bullets up in a 5/16" collet in my x2 mill and using it as a bullet puller. I can mill up a small block to hold the cartridge rims. What do you guys think? Before someone asks of course I will NOT be doing this under power. :eek: I'm cheap, not stupid.

Jim Shaper
08-06-2010, 04:51 AM
Why not make a proper inertial style bullet puller or go buy one at cabela's for a whole 20 bucks?

If you have the base rings for a primer insert tool, you can make a puller that uses those instead of the three sided spring collets that the commercial pullers use. My midway brand puller will accommodate those bases even though it's intended for the spring collets. If the plastic one ever breaks (they'll still replace it free - but I got it in a full set of reloading gear), I'll be making a custom version.

websterz
08-06-2010, 10:04 AM
Why not make a proper inertial style bullet puller or go buy one at cabela's for a whole 20 bucks?

If you have the base rings for a primer insert tool, you can make a puller that uses those instead of the three sided spring collets that the commercial pullers use. My midway brand puller will accommodate those bases even though it's intended for the spring collets. If the plastic one ever breaks (they'll still replace it free - but I got it in a full set of reloading gear), I'll be making a custom version.

A "whole 20 bucks" can be a very big deal to some people.

Toolguy
08-06-2010, 12:37 PM
A collet bullet puller is a much better way to do things, and yes, what you propose would work just fine. It doesn't take much to pull a bullet out of a case.

Jim Shaper
08-06-2010, 01:50 PM
A "whole 20 bucks" can be a very big deal to some people.

Then those people shouldn't be trying to pull bullets IMO.

The other issue with pulling them via a collet in the spindle of a mill is that the base is likely to be ill supported and you very well could do damage to the brass which then might cause bad things to happen depending on the gun it's shot from.

20 bucks is a very SMALL investment to make in personal safety and not blowing up a gun that probably cost more.

chriskat
08-06-2010, 07:18 PM
How many is a few and what do you want to do with the remnants?

I've pulled bullets using my fingers. Hold the case and press the side of the bullet against a hard surface, like a counter top. Once you get the case neck out of round the bullet will pull easy enough.

The bullets come out of this ok but the case isn't in the best of shape.

websterz
08-07-2010, 01:55 PM
How many is a few and what do you want to do with the remnants?

I've pulled bullets using my fingers. Hold the case and press the side of the bullet against a hard surface, like a counter top. Once you get the case neck out of round the bullet will pull easy enough.

The bullets come out of this ok but the case isn't in the best of shape.

I am making up some Mexican match ammo out of surplus 7.62x54r Czech LB. I will be pulling the bullets, averaging out the powder loads, reducing them by a percent or two, and replacing the bullets with Sierra 150 grain SP's. The rounds are intended for use in my PSL during deer season. The cases are steel so I am not really worried about the bases being damaged when pulling the bullets. I am going to start with 20 rounds in a couple of different powder loads and see what works best. Then, over time, I will likely rebuild a couple hundred rounds for future hunting use.

Jim Shaper
08-07-2010, 02:49 PM
It doesn't sound like you reload. Maybe you should read a couple books on it before you go this route.

Under powering loads is often as bad as over powering them. If the powder burns up wrong it can cause pressure spikes and potential KABOOM's. This ain't something to be dinking around with willy nilly.

I hope you're using a balance beam scale. Accurate digital powder scales are pretty spendy.

mf205i
08-07-2010, 03:27 PM
Back in the old days, when surplus 308 was almost free and I was young and poor, I converted a lot of ammo.
If you consider the original bullets scrap, then use your loading press. Put the round in the press, extend the ram and using side cutters or pliers, grab the bullet as it protrudes from the top of the press, then lower the ram to pull the bullet. A large washer on top of the press will protect the press and if the hole in the washer is close to bullet diameter, it will make the process easier. This method is fast, much faster than an inertia puller.
If you want to save the bullet, RCBS used to make a collet assembly that fit the top of your press. It works but it is not as fast as the dykes and I never had the heart to assemble ammo with a poor quality, pulled, surplus bullet.
Have fun with it, Mike

mcskipper
08-07-2010, 09:28 PM
Make sure all the ammo you are going to average is from the same lot.
The big boys blend powder so an other lot may not be the same blend.

If the case is less then 60% full don't drop the load at all.
The case needs to be at lease 60% full or there is a very good chance you will ring a chamber.
I would not reduce the load by more then 5%.
Inerta pullers are quick but dirty Collets are hard on bullets but clean.

I understand the $ issue, when I started reloading 40 years ago I had a pot but no window.

Be careful with this ammo stuff you don't know what you don't know.

gzig5
08-08-2010, 08:46 PM
Inertia pullers are a PITA to use and slow. I'd be surprised if one would even work on military ball, which tends to have a sealant on the neck and often cimps the bullet if firmly. The dykes and press method would be the way I'd go if the bullets are junk. Otherwise if you want to save the bullets , cobble a method to hold your shellholder in the mill vise or onto the table and grab the bullet with the collet. Slower, but it will get the job done.

38_Cal
08-08-2010, 09:12 PM
If you run your loaded military ammo into a seating die first, and seat the bullet about .025" deeper, that will bread any seal on the bullet to case and make pulling the bullet much easier.

Way back when I started shooting High Power, and my family resources ($) were skimpy to say the least, our local club issued GI ball ammo to guys using Garand rifles, and I would get my ammo draw a week or so early from the guy in charge of the match. Pulled bullets, cleaned them in solvent, sorted by Base Shape (found four different shapes in ammo from the same cans the club picked up at Camp Perry :eek: ) and re-loaded the bullets into batches/en block clips based on base shape. Funny thing...my groups got rounder and scores got higher...:D

David

websterz
08-09-2010, 09:23 PM
I made up a couple of dummy rounds, one from Albanian (brass) and another from Czech (lacquered steel), and cycled them thru 3 rifles. They cycled perfectly in all three. My biggest concern is OAL. Subtracting actual bullet length from surplus to new bullet will give me the number I need to reduce OAL by to maintain internal case spacing. The surplus bullets are hollow base boat-tail, the new ones are flat. Will that make a difference? Also will less than 2 or 3 grains in bullet weight difference be a problem if I want to keep the original powder load? Average weight on the Czech is running 148 grains. I am replacing with 150 grain Sierra's.

One other question I have is about neck tension. The new bullets have no cannelure. Can I seal the bullets with lacquer to help prevent recoil setback of the rounds waiting in the magazine??

Yes Jim, I know I am asking a lot of newbie questions. :o

mf205i
08-10-2010, 01:01 AM
You are talking about gluing in bullets so I have to ask, are you loading .311 inch or .308 bullets? At any rate, ideally you need .002-.003 inches of interference fit with the neck. As to the rest of your questions, there isnít anyone that can safely answer them sight unseen.
Mike

Jim Shaper
08-10-2010, 01:21 AM
I'm going to say this again: You're doing something that's very dangerous and I wish you wouldn't.

I hope nothing happens that you'll regret. Please don't shoot these with other people present when you do fire them. That's simply negligent.

Jim Shaper
08-10-2010, 02:07 AM
Based solely on bullet diameter measured and the info out of my reloading books - this is a mosin nagant? 7.62x54R?

After market bullets of appropriate diameter are available, but it's possible your bore is on the smaller side (right out of Lyman's) and could in fact run a .308 bullet acceptably. You need to accurately measure it to determine that factor.

You still need to dispose of the factory charge and put a known powder in the cases. The risk you're taking isn't worth the 20 cents of powder you're trying to save. Find someone with a chronograph and work up the load. Once you get a recipe down, you can make a zillion of them as time and funds permit.

Call me paranoid, but I like seeing my wife every night and having her wait on me hand and foot by choice rather than obligation. ;)

mf205i
08-10-2010, 02:09 AM
Call Sierra. They are good folks and they will give you the recommended over all length for their bullet. Ask them and they will give you some load data. Buy a can of canister propellant and because the primer strength and case capacity are not known, do not exceed the suggested starting load. Unless noted, I would personally reduce the starting load 10% and then evaluate the load.
I don’t want to discourage you but changes in bullet weight, seating depth, bearing length, core and ogive do influence pressure and you don’t know how hot your ammo is to begin with.
Does anyone else remember that early PMC?
Mike

gzig5
08-11-2010, 06:15 PM
I made up a couple of dummy rounds, one from Albanian (brass) and another from Czech (lacquered steel), and cycled them thru 3 rifles. They cycled perfectly in all three. My biggest concern is OAL. Subtracting actual bullet length from surplus to new bullet will give me the number I need to reduce OAL by to maintain internal case spacing. The surplus bullets are hollow base boat-tail, the new ones are flat. Will that make a difference? Also will less than 2 or 3 grains in bullet weight difference be a problem if I want to keep the original powder load? Average weight on the Czech is running 148 grains. I am replacing with 150 grain Sierra's.

One other question I have is about neck tension. The new bullets have no cannelure. Can I seal the bullets with lacquer to help prevent recoil setback of the rounds waiting in the magazine??

Yes Jim, I know I am asking a lot of newbie questions. :o


The differences in bullet base shape will make no noticeable difference in pressure. The difference in bullet weight, is not enough to make a difference in pressure that matters. What will make a difference is the bearing length of the bullet. If you don't know what that is and how to measure it, reduce the original powder charge by one grain because the Sierra probably is a little longer and would raise pressure a touch.

Do not use lacquer to seal the bullets. If you seat a bullet and then push it in by hand without really trying hard, there's not enough neck tension and you have a couple of options. Use your seating die to apply a light crimp as a second operation. Applying a light crimp without a cannelure shouldn't hurt anything. Or you should resize the case neck. But first, remove the de-priming pin from the die. Lube the case as normal trying to keep it out of the inside of the case, and run it through the die. You can back the die out so it only sizes half the neck and that should be sufficient. Not sure how the re-sizing would work on the steel cases and I think I would avoid that because of what they might do to the inside of your die. If you are lucky, the bullet will be have enough neck tension. Actually, the best thing to do for neck tension is to get a Lee Factory crimp die. Cheap and works well.

Jim Shaper
08-15-2010, 09:03 PM
Websterz, anything to report?

websterz
08-16-2010, 09:21 AM
Been down sick the past few days and unable to spend any time in the shop. In the meantime I am still researching and learning all I can before I start pulling the trigger. I will let you know. :)

Jim Shaper
08-16-2010, 01:54 PM
Lee makes a little hand-held bullet seating rig for single calibers (reasonably priced), and you can buy .311 bullets from multiple makers. If you dumped the original powder, got a factory recipe and put it all together with a proper OAL (also provided in the reloading books) you'd have nothing to worry about when you pulled the trigger.

websterz
08-16-2010, 03:56 PM
That is actually what I am doing as we speak. I am waiting for my intro to reloading manual to arrive, at which time I will go and purchase the proper powder. I already have a box of Sierra Pro Hunter bullets, 150 grain SP's in .311". My Lee Loader arrived a couple weeks back and I have used it to assemble several dummy cartridges so that I will have the process worked out when I start adding powder to the rounds. Just FYI these rounds are destined for use primarily in my PSL but may also see use in my 91/30's and M44.

radkins
08-16-2010, 08:38 PM
Just finished reading this and I too can relate to the $ problems of reloading back many years ago when I started but no amount of money is worth taking a risk on when safety is the issue. I have to agree with Jim some of the things you are talking of doing are scary indeed especially the powder! For safety's sake please toss that stuff and buy some powder! While you are at it you might want to buy a good reloading manual or if not at least do some extensive net searching on the subject. Nothing wrong with newbie questions as long as they are not for advice on how to type with no fingers on one hand or without being able to see the monitor and key board!:(

radkins
08-16-2010, 08:40 PM
That is actually what I am doing as we speak. I am waiting for my intro to reloading manual to arrive, at which time I will go and purchase the proper powder. I already have a box of Sierra Pro Hunter bullets, 150 grain SP's in .311". My Lee Loader arrived a couple weeks back and I have used it to assemble several dummy cartridges so that I will have the process worked out when I start adding powder to the rounds. Just FYI these rounds are destined for use primarily in my PSL but may also see use in my 91/30's and M44.



Please disregard my first reply, I did not notice there was another page-my apologies.
That's the way to do it! Have fun but be aware that reloading can be as addictive as machining.:D

Jim Shaper
08-16-2010, 10:38 PM
Let me know if you want me to get some more data on the loads you're working up. What I've been told by my mentors is that you want to check no less than three sources for your powder levels before you load a single round. There's differences, and it's worth knowing which is really low and who thinks you can run it hotter than the others. Without a chronograph, you're stabbing in the dark, so you want to stay in the middle somewhere with your loads.

websterz
08-16-2010, 11:05 PM
Let me know if you want me to get some more data on the loads you're working up. What I've been told by my mentors is that you want to check no less than three sources for your powder levels before you load a single round. There's differences, and it's worth knowing which is really low and who thinks you can run it hotter than the others. Without a chronograph, you're stabbing in the dark, so you want to stay in the middle somewhere with your loads.

I will definitely remember that Jim, thanks!