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TGTool
08-10-2010, 12:16 PM
... or should it have been a left righhand drill. They should have left it in the scrap bin at the factory in any case.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/TGTool/P1010297-1.jpg

Actually I find this pretty amusing and another piece for the Museum of Machining Memories. I got one of the Chinese drill sets several years ago. Mostly it's worked pretty well. I found one bit that deteriorated immediately and a couple small ones with iffy point geometry but many of them have never yet been used. As it happened I pulled out the #59 drill yesterday and as usual I looked at it with a magifier to see if I thought the tip grind was right. It was strange. In fact it looked like a teeny pilot drill, not at all what was needed, and then I noticed the funky flutes. :eek: Maybe one of those drills with an identity crisis that doesn't know what it wants to be.

Does anyone else keep a collection of bizarre oddities from the manufacturing world?

Dr Stan
08-10-2010, 12:19 PM
Does anyone else keep a collection of bizarre oddities from the manufacturing world?

Sure, its called Harbor Freight. :D

TGTool
08-10-2010, 12:25 PM
Sure, its called Harbor Freight. :D

However did you know? :p

lugnut
08-10-2010, 02:37 PM
Here is one of the odd ball mistakes from Proto Tools, I picked it up at a yard sale a year ago. A Proto combination wrench marked 5/16 that measures .600. I don't really know what it was suppose to be.:confused:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/lugnut/Aug102010001_edited-1.jpg

Frank Ford
08-10-2010, 02:41 PM
Sure, more USA quality - a pair of 1/4-20 taps:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/ShopTips/072.jpg

Mcgyver
08-10-2010, 02:55 PM
... or should it have been a left righhand drill. They should have left it in the scrap bin at the factory in any case.


ahh cool, ductile hss

here's one where they forgot the threads

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy132/michael01000/DSC_23781280x768.jpg

john hawkins
08-10-2010, 03:01 PM
I took my jig saw over to my mothers house to cut the leggs off of an oriental wooden screen. I wanted a nice clean cut so I put a new blade in the saw. Offered the saw to the first leg. The saw just jumped up and down. No saw dust, no kerf !! WTF, It's only wood. This saw will eat anything except a file!! On close inspection of the blade I discovered that the teeth were pointed down, not up. I guess the person who loaded the blade stock into the machine that forms the "chucking" end had the whole roll in backwards. Who knows how many of these blades made it to market.

fasto
08-10-2010, 03:48 PM
The drill bit in the first post looks like the ones I made drilling hardened steel. They get so hot from the friction that they soften up and re-twist themselves.
Why was I drilling hardened steel with a twist drill? Well, mine started with a carbide tip on it, until the braze failed...

RKW
08-10-2010, 03:55 PM
I picked up an inexpensive jobber set from Northern Tool a year or two ago to use as pilot bits for wood screws on odd jobs. A few months ago a used a couple of the sizes that had not been touched yet and noticed the looked bent when I was using them. I thought, no worries it is only wood so it won't matter. As I kept using that bit in other holes it looked like it was getting worse, so I grabbed it to see and it bent when I touched it. I guess there where a few that were not heat treated but even still an 1/8" bit should be more sturdy than that unless it was made out of lead. I call them my butter bits now since they are as soft as butter. I won't make that mistake again.

Boucher
08-10-2010, 03:57 PM
It just got reversed when it was unrolled. You just need to turn it back through itself. Years ago I was working at night in the Engineering model shop and needed to install a new blade. I found the teeth facing the wrong way. I just thought that someone welded it wrong. The next morning when I told the lab tech he had a good laugh. Then showed me how to reverse it. The technique is easier to demonstrate than it is to describe.

Optics Curmudgeon
08-10-2010, 04:10 PM
Lugnut,

That there's a 5/16 Whitworth wrench.

Joe

JoeCB
08-10-2010, 04:11 PM
as for lugnut's odd wrench... think that is a British Std Whitworth 5/16 ". Note the part number 5/16 1210 -W , might be a hint. Our friends across the pond will know for sure.

Joe B

john hawkins
08-10-2010, 04:13 PM
This was not a band saw. It was a hand held electric jig "recp" saw.

lugnut
08-10-2010, 04:23 PM
Joe and the other Joe, I think your right, I googled it and there it was. NOW my question it why would anyone come up with a crazy/screwed up thing like the "Whitworth" system ???:confused:

Black_Moons
08-10-2010, 04:27 PM
Ahhh, that explains the oddball wrenchs I have that don't match whats printed on them. Oddly, only have 2 very large ones, and both fit things on my mill/clamp down set very snugly (Mill is metric..), so I keep em around :)

bob ward
08-10-2010, 05:29 PM
Somewhere I have a 5/16 bolt, grade 8, which has a series of individual grooves along the shank rather than a conventional spiral groove.

Lew Hartswick
08-10-2010, 05:35 PM
Here is one of the odd ball mistakes from Proto Tools, I picked it up at a yard sale a year ago. A Proto combination wrench marked 5/16 that measures .600. I don't really know what it was suppose to be.:confused:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/lugnut/Aug102010001_edited-1.jpg In all probability that is a 5/16 Whitworth wrench. I had a British
car a long time in the past and it had a chain finial drive with a tensioner
that used such a wench. It was about that size and configuration.
...lew...edit I see I've been beaten :-)

dvbydt
08-10-2010, 05:47 PM
Lugnut,

"A Proto combination wrench marked 5/16 that measures .600. "

The important letter on that "spanner":) is the "W". It stands for Whitworth, an obsolete UK coarse thread. The 5/16 BSW nut had an A/F of 0.600/0.592.

edit - We are a bit slow across the pond

IanR

Doc Nickel
08-10-2010, 05:55 PM
Somewhere I have a 5/16 bolt, grade 8, which has a series of individual grooves along the shank rather than a conventional spiral groove.

-The local community college machine shop teacher keeps a collection of oddballs, including a full three-foot section of 3/4" allthread that got 'ringed' instead of 'threaded'. :D

The only goofy thing I can think of off the top of my head (that I got, that is) was a 10-32 stainless allen-drive countersunk screw, that came out of the package fully and perfectly formed, but with no drive hole. Just a faint mark showing where the die/punch barely touched it.

Doc.

rohart
08-10-2010, 06:25 PM
It gets worse. A wrench labelled 5/16 W can also be labelled 5/16 BSW and 3/8 BSF.

If I look out my 5/16 BSW or BSF bolts, they need a 1/4 BSW wrench - a tad over 13mm. The bolts to use a 5/16 W wrench on are 3/8 BSW or 3/8 BSF.

Maybe, ages ago, bolt heads were larger ?

Get any old British iron - pre-unit Triumphs or BSAs for example - and all the nuts and bolts should need Whitworth sized wrenches, including those lovely cycle threads (Yuk !).

Timleech
08-10-2010, 06:38 PM
It gets worse. A wrench labelled 5/16 W can also be labelled 5/16 BSW and 3/8 BSF.

If I look out my 5/16 BSW or BSF bolts, they need a 1/4 BSW wrench - a tad over 13mm. The bolts to use a 5/16 W wrench on are 3/8 BSW or 3/8 BSF.

Maybe, ages ago, bolt heads were larger ?

Get any old British iron - pre-unit Triumphs or BSAs for example - and all the nuts and bolts should need Whitworth sized wrenches, including those lovely cycle threads (Yuk !).

No, that 5/16W wrench can be marked 3/8" BS, or BSW, or BSF, but not 5/16" BSW.
The clue is in the 'BS' - British Standard. They took Whitworth's original spec and used the next smaller hex size for each thread for the British Standard. So the British Standard Whit spanner for 3/8" thread, either Whit or Fine, is the same size as the Whit (pre-BS) spanner for 5/16" Dia.

Tim

oldbikerdude37
08-10-2010, 06:45 PM
No, that 5/16W wrench can be marked 3/8" BS, or BSW, or BSF, but not 5/16" BSW.
The clue is in the 'BS' - British Standard. They took Whitworth's original spec and used the next smaller hex size for each thread for the British Standard. So the British Standard Whit spanner for 3/8" thread, either Whit or Fine, is the same size as the Whit (pre-BS) spanner for 5/16" Dia.

Tim

yea, those wrenches are spendy, when I was fixing wickman screw machines the old maintenance man wanted to sell me his set for way too much money. I went to harbor freight and got some cheapos and ground my own.

Kind of a dumb idea by the wrench makers.

Doozer
08-10-2010, 06:50 PM
Grind that wrench open to 5/8" and make it more useful.

--Doozer

lugnut
08-10-2010, 07:37 PM
What that 5/16 wrench proves to me is---The British should never mess with fractions:D

juergenwt
08-10-2010, 08:04 PM
Sorry to say - we (US) are not far behind. There is some hope for the UK. They have made their money metric and are working hard (ha,ha) on converting to metric elsewhere. So you make fun of the Brits. Not fair from a US point of view. Ever watch somebody trying to figure out how many 12oz glasses in a 1/2 barrel of beer? Let the fun begin!

Rigger
08-10-2010, 08:15 PM
Here is one of the odd ball mistakes from Proto Tools, I picked it up at a yard sale a year ago. A Proto combination wrench marked 5/16 that measures .600. I don't really know what it was suppose to be.:confused:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/lugnut/Aug102010001_edited-1.jpg

Nothing oddball at all.
It's clearly marked 5/16" W for Whitworth which is 0.600 A/ F

http://www.baconsdozen.co.uk/tools/technical.htm

Bottom of page.

Rigger

lugnut
08-10-2010, 08:45 PM
Rigger, who in hell looks at the part number of the wrench they are reaching for? If it is stamped 5/16 I think it should fit a 5/16 inch nut. Unless your working on a Jaguar:D

J Tiers
08-10-2010, 09:00 PM
There is some hope for the UK. They have made their money metric and are working hard (ha,ha) on converting to metric elsewhere. So you make fun of the Brits. Not fair from a US point of view. Ever watch somebody trying to figure out how many 12oz glasses in a 1/2 barrel of beer? Let the fun begin!

Eh, all the units we have came from the Brits.....

12 oz glasses?

Ha..... I'll SEE your glasses and raise you in Hogsheads, Firkins, minims, and fluid drachms.

Everyone laughs about inches,, but much of the US uses metric anyway, and we don't have those "nutty size" wrenches........ never did.

franco
08-10-2010, 09:02 PM
Joe and the other Joe, I think your right, I googled it and there it was. NOW my question it why would anyone come up with a crazy/screwed up thing like the "Whitworth" system ???:confused:

QUOTE J Tiers, Post #28: "Everyone laughs about inches,, but much of the US uses metric anyway, and we don't have those "nutty size" wrenches........ never did."

Years ago American wrenches were also marked with the bolt diameter: you may come across some of these at some stage too and wonder what they are. The Whitworth wrench calculations are similar, but slightly different. Here's part of an old post by John Garner on PM explaining how the old system American wrench A/F distance was calculated:

"For screwthread Major Diameter "D"

Standard head / nut / wrench opening is 1 1/2 x D.

Heavy head / nut / wrench opening is 1 1/2 x D + 1/8 inch.

A worked example:

D = 7/8 inch

Standard head / nut / wrench opening = 1 1/2 x 7/8 inch = 1 5/16 inch.

Heavy head / nut / wrench opening = 1 1/2 x 7/8 inch + 1/8 inch = 1 7/16 inch.

And, as Jim Carlson has pointed out, the now-standard US practice of stamping wrenches with their opening sizes replaced a earlier practice of stamping the wrenches with the diameters of the threads on the bolts the wrenches fit.

John"

Added after seeing post #27: Lugnut, having been brought up with the Whitworth system, it took me some time to get used to the idea that an American 1/2" wrench was not made to fit a 1/2" bolt! Didn't seem logical at the time. It was a while ago though.

franco

gaston
08-10-2010, 09:07 PM
I have a couple of "up side down" jig saw blades they are used when you want the tear out on the bottom instead of the top you have to hold the saw down hard or it jumps

darryl
08-10-2010, 09:26 PM
Gaston beat me to it- I was going to mention that 'upside down' jigsaw blades are actually intentionally made that way. Imagine sawing from the 'show' side of something, maybe a countertop. You want to keep the edges clean and neat so you saw downwards. By the way, don't use the 'kick' feature on the jigsaw or all you'll get is the back of the teeth dragging upwards against the material, then the teeth are pulled away from the material on the part of the stroke where normally the blade would be cutting.

Back to the drill bits- I bought a set of carbide tipped at a dollar store, and the first one I used promptly twisted backwards. In the smaller diameters I could fairly easily bend them between my thumb and two fingers on one hand. I got my dollars worth- in laughter.

rockrat
08-10-2010, 09:38 PM
Oh, I had to go dig one out for this "thread"; no pun intended.

I would toss this into a fellows fastener layout as he was assembling something to see how long it would take him to find out that the threads are not helical therefore they are not threads at all but just rings.

Click for larger photo.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/katiecat222/temp/th_thread-forever.jpg (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/katiecat222/temp/thread-forever.jpg)

I wont give away how much time I spent trying to get a fastener to fit on this bolt when I found it. :D

rock~

huntinguy
08-10-2010, 10:15 PM
...
Does anyone else keep a collection of bizarre oddities from the manufacturing world?

My wife does... :p
well just one....:p

Don Young
08-10-2010, 11:13 PM
Here is one of the odd ball mistakes from Proto Tools, I picked it up at a yard sale a year ago. A Proto combination wrench marked 5/16 that measures .600. I don't really know what it was suppose to be.:confused:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/lugnut/Aug102010001_edited-1.jpg

Actually, I think that wrench is correctly marked as "5/16". The "-W" in the part number probably indicates "Whitworth". These fasteners were common in the UK and the wrenches are sized by the bolt diameter, not the hex size. I still have quite a few Whitworth and BA sized tools from my days as a "Limey" motorcycle mechanic in the 1950's.

dp
08-11-2010, 12:48 AM
Does nobody read ahead anymore? :)

Paul Alciatore
08-11-2010, 12:56 AM
Oh, I had to go dig one out for this "thread"; no pun intended.

I would toss this into a fellows fastener layout as he was assembling something to see how long it would take him to find out that the threads are not helical therefore they are not threads at all but just rings.

Click for larger photo.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/katiecat222/temp/th_thread-forever.jpg (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/katiecat222/temp/thread-forever.jpg)

I wont give away how much time I spent trying to get a fastener to fit on this bolt when I found it. :D

rock~

Hey, hey! I want about a half dozen of those in several common sizes. The fun would never end. Better than my silver penny collection which really drives coin collectors nuts.

Ian B
08-11-2010, 02:57 AM
Bolt head sizes; well, with metric bolts, the only sizes I see on my spanners are the A/F measurements. My 10mm spanner measures 10mm between the jaws. It fits the head of an M6 bolt. You just have to "know" what size spanner to use with what size bolt.

Trouble is, it's not consistent. For example, M12 normally has 19mm A/F nuts. But I also have flanged M12 nuts for my mill's clamp sets that take a 21mm spanner.

Luckily, I have a dual range adjustable spanner that fits whitworth, inch A/F and metric, hex and square.

Talking of useless tools, someone bought me a Black & Dekker electric adjustable spanner - big lumpy thing with batteries and something like a 1mw motor to move the rattly jaw. Makes a good hammer though!

Ian

TGTool
08-11-2010, 09:43 AM
Does nobody read ahead anymore? :)

Another example of the adage "Better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." :rolleyes:

Richard Wilson
08-11-2010, 11:29 AM
[QUOTE=rohart]It gets worse. A wrench labelled 5/16 W can also be labelled 5/16 BSW and 3/8 BSF.

If I look out my 5/16 BSW or BSF bolts, they need a 1/4 BSW wrench - a tad over 13mm. The bolts to use a 5/16 W wrench on are 3/8 BSW or 3/8 BSF.

Maybe, ages ago, bolt heads were larger ?

Yes, pre WW2 Whitworth bolt heads were 'full size' As part of the wartime economy drive, the heads were made a size smaller, and were kept that way when the war ended. So, a pre war 5/16 Whitworth spanner will fit a post war 3/8 Whitworth bolt. It keeps us fit, my box of spanners is so heavy because its got pre and post war Whitworth spanners, A/F spanners to fit US stuff and metric spanners for modern stuff. The hell with it, I just use Stilsons, they fit anything.

Richard

Timleech
08-11-2010, 01:48 PM
Yes, pre WW2 Whitworth bolt heads were 'full size' As part of the wartime economy drive, the heads were made a size smaller, and were kept that way when the war ended. So, a pre war 5/16 Whitworth spanner will fit a post war 3/8 Whitworth bolt. It keeps us fit, my box of spanners is so heavy because its got pre and post war Whitworth spanners, A/F spanners to fit US stuff and metric spanners for modern stuff. The hell with it, I just use Stilsons, they fit anything.

Richard

Of course you don't need pre- and post-war Whit spanners, they're all the same apart from the labelling ;)

There's nothing 'oddball' about Whit spanners, it's just another system - a good one which predates most other standards but has now been superseded by metric in the UK.

Here's some of what I've been carrying around in my car for one of my current jobs, they're all Whitworth/BS (apart from the mole/vice grips and the adjustable ;) ):-

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss38/Timleech_2009/P1000423.jpg

The largest socket is 1 3/8" W, remember that's the thread size.
The back of the car came up at least an inch when I took them out.

garagemark
08-11-2010, 02:28 PM
My 1973 MGB was built with Whitworth fasteners. I disassembled and reassembled the entire car down to the last nut and bolt with good old common American wrenches. Never rounded off a single nut or bolt. They are a TAD sloppy, but I just couldn't justify a set of Whitworth wrenches.