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gmatov
08-10-2010, 10:42 PM
Off topic, I know, but I need some electrical help.

I bought a used stair lift, gear driven chair on a rack and pinion driven I-beam. Have it installed, can't figure the wiring. Worse is my scanner is broken, haven't hooked up the new all in one.

Junction box has motor wires and line, black, white, ground. OK, there. Problem is, it came with "auxiliary", to use the term other makers give for those "extras".

I didn't pay enough attention when I dismantled it, figured I could figure it out. Can'!

Auxiliary switches are double throw rockers, diode on both leads.

Without them, it moves as soon as plugged in, not waiting for the lift button. That won't do. I'd have to let my brother, had a stroke and moved in to live with me, sit, and I would have to plug it in and unplug when he gets to the top.

From the print on the diodes, I do believe they are polarized. When I first connected them into the circuit, it didn't run at all. After I post this, i think I will go try to trace the flat wires and connect in series, left wire up to the left of the switch, down to the left wire of the other switch, down the right wire of the switch, first wire from black line, last wire to black motor.

Hope I get it right, but still need help. Brother has been hospitalized 3 weeks. I think he can climb the stairs with some help, but really would like for him to be able to use the chair.

Thanks,

George

duckman
08-10-2010, 10:53 PM
Internet search for the manuf. call and ask for wiring diagram.

saltmine
08-10-2010, 10:54 PM
Giant slingshot broken?

gmatov
08-10-2010, 11:09 PM
Duck,

I did get in touch with the people who now own Cheney, Liberty, some other names in the interim, NOW, ThyssennKrupp. They can't or won't help me. I mailed them and got sales brochures and my local dealer's name.

Mailed him about possibly installing it, he said he would not install a 19 year old lift, but would sell me a new one. This one is installed.

Thanks for the suggestion, anyhow. If YOU can find the dope, I'm all ears.

Cheers,

George

Don Young
08-10-2010, 11:24 PM
If you were near by I could probably sort it out for you, unfortunately I'm in Alabama. You just need someone with a little experience in motor controls, and willingness to help. Check if you have a motor rewind shop, they may know someone.

gmatov
08-11-2010, 12:17 AM
Don,

You mean you aren't making that trip north tomorrow? Ah, poop.

Kidding.

To clarify a little. The switches have intermittent rockers, up/down arrows. Switches are reversed in the housings. One lead is bare, power. Other lead is insulated spade terminal, with both diodes connected to it, goes back to motor lead, I THINK. Out put from each side of the switch has a diode, one print right side up, other upside down. I assume to reverse the current to the motor.

I've wired it every which way I can think of, and I get nothing, or have to push both switches to make the motor do anything, and then it just groans.

In no way can I make the chair switch work. Till I hear form one of you who can help, I will plug and unplug to get him up and down. Get him seated, plug it in, shut it off, help him out. Vice versa in the morning.

Thanks for any help you can give.

Cheers,

George

Don Young
08-12-2010, 12:57 AM
In searching for info on your lift I found someone in the Wichita with a Liberty/Cheney stairlift for sale on Cragslist. He had removed the lift and taken pictures for re-installation and may be able to help you. I think I have the link but if it does not work you should be able to find it with a search. Try this link:mailto:sale-htfwt-1864284904@craigslist.org?subject=STAIRLIFT%20-%20%24400%20(WICHITA%20AREA)&body=%0A%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwichita.craigslist.org%2Fh ab%2F1864284904.html%0A

Hope this helps. (Doesn't look like the link is correct.) The posting was July 26, 2010.

gmatov
08-12-2010, 01:38 AM
Don,

That 9 digit no was enough to get a hit. I e-mailed him to ask if he could help.Thanks for the link. It might help.

Cheers,

George

gmatov
08-14-2010, 03:02 AM
I e-mailed him and he has no idea of the wiring.

I kind of hoped that Evan would chime in, or another electrically inclined member.

I guess I have to do some experimentation.

Frankly, I am disappointed. We speak with conviction of theoretical subjects, but when it comes to something practical, nobody knows anything. It must be a simple electrical circuit. 2 X 4 Handi-box welded to one of the mounting feet, 6 wires in the box without the switch wires.

Ah, well.

Cheers,

George

darryl
08-14-2010, 04:11 AM
http://www.glacern.net/free_photo_upload/limit%20switches%20diagram.jpg

I don't know if this will help, but it's a fairly basic diagram of limit switches, diodes, and operating switches for a reversible dc motor. As I have drawn it, the motor will rotate one direction for up, and the other way for down. If the motor runs the wrong way when an operating switch is pressed, just reverse the motor wires. Don't reverse the polarity of the battery voltage with respect to how the drawing shows the orientation of the diodes.

Maybe this will help you get the chairlift working properly.

Your Old Dog
08-14-2010, 07:56 AM
Is this a DC motor?

Is the switch DPDT? (does it have 6 solder lugs for the wires?)

gmatov
08-15-2010, 01:34 AM
Darryl,

Thanks, but it is an AC machine, though I am sure somewhere it does get converted to DC, else it is as the Op Manual says, 1/3 HP instant reverse.

Diodes in the switches lead me to think it is a DC motor.

WHY in the hell it won't work direct wired, without the switches is what gets me. Switches with diodes in them should not, to me, have anything to do with direct wire. When the switches are centered, they are out of the circuit.

YOD,

No, the SWITCHES, plural, one up one down, are single pole/double throw. Line to center tap, reversed diodes on the end taps, matched at the bottom of the stairs.

To reiterate, wire from Line in, hot, ties to center tap of switches. BOTH end taps are fixed with diodes in reverse to the other to the return line. So I have 2 wires tied together connected to both switches, center tap. One upstairs, one downstairs. I have 2 wires, with diodes on them coming back to the junction box.

My problem is where in the hell do I connect those 2 wires, with rectified current, to the Load wires. Load is Black/White/Green. The only notes I got to make were "Orange (wire nut) 2 white + Gr Switches". That doesn't make sense, even to me. It can't be Line in, else no Ground. It can't be Line out, else it would not be BOTH "whites to Green or ground".

The 2 end tap wires HAVE to go to black and white of the load side, but they don't work, and the chair arm switches don't work either.

I am at a loss.
I contacted a lift provider, hope they can figure out my problem. I am not too cheap to pay for help. But, so many decide they will not help. We will sell you a new one.

Screw that.

Cheers,
George

darryl
08-15-2010, 02:22 AM
One thing I don't understand is whether the chair has all the mechanicals and electricals, or whether the drive unit itself is fixed, say at the bottom or the top of the stairs. I don't profess to be an expert on stair climbers, but the few I've seen were self-powered and ran on an internal battery. This battery is charged when the chair is either at the top or the bottom of the stairs, but not in between. If the controls are on the chair and the mechanicals are not, there would have to be a multiple conductor wire connecting the two to transfer control signals to the electric/mechanical box. If there are no controls on the chair, then I can see it possibly being an ac motor system, but there would then have to be a chain drive, cable drive, or maybe a leadscrew drive to move the chair.

I'm just trying to understand more about the system you're dealing with-

alanganes
08-15-2010, 08:32 AM
While not wanting to state the obvious, I'm pretty sure some here could be of vastly greater help if you could find a way to get some photos of what you have posted here. I'm pretty sure that if I could see your setup in person, I could dope it out in fairly short order, and there are plenty of guys here who could do the same. But we are really shooting in the dark at this point so it is pretty difficult to give guidance that is too specific. This is a bit like the folks who turn up on the forum and say something like "HI, I need a lathe, which one should I get?" Of course, the answer is: "well, that depends...."

Please understand that I am not trying to be critical or abrasive here. It seems that I can sense your frustration, understandable in light of the situation you are facing trying to help out your brother. If you can get some photos and/or some detailed diagrams of what you have now, I'm guessing that some of us here can help you fill in the blanks.

Circlip
08-15-2010, 11:25 AM
While not wanting to state the obvious, I'm pretty sure some here could be of vastly greater help if you could find a way to get some photos of what you have posted here.

Naa Alan, the rules on this forum clearly state " I am thinking of a number and colour (color), what time was it in Italy when I last had a drink"??

MUCH more fun that way, no where near 10 pages or 120 postings yet:D

Regards Ian.

MaxHeadRoom
08-15-2010, 12:15 PM
The presence of Diodes would indicate a DC motor, can you tell if there are four connections on, or coming out of the motor?
The reason I ask is that some applications like this use a series or traction motor.
It could also be a shunt wound field, in this case the diodes could be for reversing the field, if so they would be small current devices compared to what you would need for the armature reversal.
This could also explain why it does not move when connected direct, you may be missing the field if you disconnect the diodes.
OR if by removing the diodes and connecting direct, you maybe putting AC on to a DC motor?
Just a possibility.
Max.

JohnHarbeck
08-15-2010, 01:05 PM
Went thru this a few years ago with a 20 year old Liberty/Concord chair. The control circuit board under the chair seat was FULL of min-relays, steering diodes, and many status LED's you couldn't see without major disassembly. Unfortunately, when I replaced it with a new DC/battery chair (the rails were wearing out), I guess I deleted the manual files on my PC and threw away the hard copy that hung at the lower landing. I did get a schematic emailed from Liberty/Concord.
I do remember that the ground wire in the 'reel' cable had to be grounded to the junction box attachd about the middle of the rail, or the remote call buttons wouldn't work at all. Sorry, that's about all I can remember about it...

John in Valparaiso, IN

gmatov
08-15-2010, 10:01 PM
Darryl,

I thought I had said somewhere that it is all in the chair. Reel built into the chair with an umbilical cord from the junction box. 2 conductor with ground from the box to the chair. 2 zip cords (lamp cord, heavier, probably, though I haven't looked, 14 AWG, 1 from each switch.

Every thing but the switches is on the chair, and, as JohnHarbeck says, hard to get to without some serious disassembly. Limits in the chair, just trip blocks on the rail.

alanganes,

I'm not offended. I am asking for help. One asking for help can't get a wild hair and expect help. Hell, I'D tell me to kiss off if I got snotty while asking for help.

I was going to draw a schematic, what little there is to draw, but my scanner pooped out on me, and now I find it is for some reason working, again.

Innyhoo, I took a couple pics, have them on photobucket, here:

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n160/gmatov/P8150712.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n160/gmatov/P8150704.jpg

I'll warn you, I don't know how to resize in PSP, so one is 3 MB and the other is 1 MB. When I do resize, they get grainy as hell. I DID learn how to type on the pictures though, something new, for me.

If you don't understand something as it is written, let me know.

Max,

That IS one thing you missed. Easy to overlook while reading the whole thread. It DOES move when connected direct. Problem is, it takes off as soon as I plug it in. I haven't tried it, but it looks to me like it would go up to the upper limit, reverse till the lower limit and just keep doing that till I unplug. As is, when I plug it in, it takes off, unplug, stop, replug, reverses and comes back down, unplug, stop, replug, back up. Changes direction each time I plug it in.

The Operator's Manual says it is a 1/3 HP Instant reverse motor. It is either AC, or it has a rectifier bank in the chair it self. The only connection to the whole unit is Line and Load in the junction box and the 2 call switches. Also, as I said, it does run, but not right, when directly connected without the switches.

I am at a loss as to why it works with the limits in place as it was when I tried it in the house I bought it from. As I said, I don't know WHERE those switches are supposed to go. What I don't understand is howinell they can mean anything to operation from the chair. With the switches open, all I can see that I have is 2 wires from Black Line to the center tap of an open switch.

In my lack of wisdom, if I put them in circuit from Line, without Load Black being connected to Line Black, there is no power to the chair until one of the switches is pressed. I HAVE had it connected so that pressing 2 of the switches made it sit and growl, as though it was bucking. No combination of switch wiring allows the chair mounted control to work.

John,

I wish you still had the schematic. I got in touch with ThyssmannKrupp, the new owner of Liberty/Cheney lifts, and they sent me sales brochures and the name of the local dealer who told me he had no info, though he installed it, and he would not install my 19 year old chair.

I mailed to another Vendor/Installer, locally, and am hoping he will be able to come wire it for me. I am not too cheap to pay for service. Just can't get anybody to do it.

Cheers,

George

ulav8r
08-16-2010, 04:12 PM
Sounds like the purpose of the switches is to stop the chair at each end. When the chair trips the switch, it shuts off until the control on the chair is triggered. It then ignores the switch that shut it off and travels to the other limit. I am not familiar with how such circuits work but can figure out the purpose of the switches. Can't picture it in my head, but if I had my hands on it might not burn it up.

alanganes
08-16-2010, 05:32 PM
The fact that it changes direction each time you connect and disconnect the power would suggest that there is either a circuit or a bistable relay in the chair that swaps the motor direction.

I'm guessing that the call switches just energize said relay, which latches itself on until the chair hits the opposite limit switch.

All that may not help much at this point, I know. Hoping the observation might jar some ideas in some of the other minds here.

Thanks for posting the pictures. Let's think about this a bit now that we have something to look at.

gmatov
08-16-2010, 07:53 PM
Alan,

The chair is supposed to be operated from the switches on the arm. The remote switches are for use if the chair is at the wrong end of the stairs, or possibly if the occupant is incapable of using the chair switches.

The limit switches on the chair shut off the chair when it touches, either up or down stairs. It does not reverse itself. There's another brainteaser. With the switches wired in properly, and I haven't found that elusive combination, and both centered, it stops at the end of travel. I mean as iot was wired before I dismantled it.

I wired it direct this AM to send the brother up the steps and it did start to come back down before I unplugged. Just an inch or so, and I stopped it where he could safely get off

ulav8r,

No, those switches in the pics are call switches, period. They are solely for use when off the chair. They're not the limits, those are built into the base of the chair. When the chair hits one of the limits, it stops, right now. You can hold the button for that direction, on the chair arm or the remotes all day. It does not go. Nor do the limits change direction. Nor does the chair autoreverse with the chair buttons. You can go up in 1 inch increments if you tap and release the up button, same with the down button. 2 buttons on the arm of the chair.

The call switches make the chair go to the end of travel when no one is riding the chair.

This wiring is probably simple as hell, but it is not coming to me.

Thanks,

George

Don Young
08-17-2010, 12:32 AM
George, the one thing I am sure of is that you are correct in your thought that the call/auxillary switches have no effect unless pressed. Disconnecting them can not do anything to the system. So that means that there is another problem un-related to the switches. Since you seem to indicate that the limit switches are working, the problem must be in the area controlled by the chair switches.

It seems the call system uses diodes with an AC source to control the current direction so that only two wires are needed to control both up and down modes. That part makes sense. It also makes sense that if you connect the wires, which normally go to the switches, together without the switches and diodes in place then current will flow in both directions and both the up and down functions will be energized. Why it reverses each time power is applied is unclear to me. So operation should be normal from the chair switches with the switches disconnected and the switch wires in the junction box left disconnected also.

Another part unclear is how the chair gets its main AC power, definitely not from the power leads to the switches, as I first thought.

I think what you have is loss of control from the chair switches and you have been able to make it work by bypassing the call switches. I think the call switch wiring should be as follows:

Input white directly to output white. Input green/ground directly to output green/ground. Input black to center of both switches. Output black to both diodes on both switches. As you said, this should do nothing unless a switch is pressed and the chair should not work if the chair switches are not working. Why the call switches do not work properly is also unclear to me but the chair switches should work without them.

I know this is not the solution, but maybe it will help.

Edit: After looking at your second picture again, it does look like the hot lead on the main power cord goes only to the call switch wires. If true, that is WRONG. Power must get to the rest of the chair without going through the call switches. Check carefully.

Don Young
08-17-2010, 12:44 AM
Duplicate post removed.

Don Young
08-17-2010, 09:39 AM
George,I have printed your photo of the junction box to get a better look at it. It looks like the two white zip cords from the switches and the two conductor plus ground line cord enter the box at the top left. It looks like a black cable enters at the bottom left. If that black cable has only white, black and green wires and there is no other wire that can be connected in the box, then I have another idea. I suspect the green wire in the cable is not intended to be a ground wire but is in fact one of the power leads. Whether it is the main power to the system or the one controlled by the auxillary switches I do not know.

The black lead of your power input cable must have three wires connected to it; the two wires to the switches and one other. Whether that other is the black or green output cable lead is the question, but from your description of the symptoms I suspect it should be the green wire.

There is the possibillity of a severe shock hazard if you connect that green wire as a hot power wire and it is intended to be a ground. You should verify that it is not connected to any metal parts of the chair. In external wiring, the National Electrical Code does not permit green power wires but I do not think that applies to internal wiring. These is my best idea at this time. I LEAVE IT UP TO YOU CHECK CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU CHANGE ANY CONNECTIONS. IF YOU ARE NOT SURE, DON'T DO IT!

Edit: Now your note "Orange (wire nut) 2 white + GR switches" makes more sense. I think you had an orange wire nut connecting the two white switch input wires to the input hot (black or +) and to the green output cable wire. Then the black output cable wire would be connected to the two white wires which go to the diodes on the switches. I am not real sure of which of the output cable black and green wires is which but I am pretty sure that both are power wires and I don"t think interchanging them will damage anything. What I would do is leave the switches disconnected and try the black input power lead to each in turn to see which makes the chair switches work. Hope this helps.

Barrington
08-17-2010, 12:19 PM
George,

I've never had any dealings with stair lifts so the following is generally guesswork ...

The description 'instant reverse' suggests this is a permanent split capacitor motor. This has two windings, one fed via a capacitor, and reversing either winding reverses the rotation. In a 19 year old system this would almost certainly be achieved using relays.

There would probably be two relays, either one for each direction and interlocked, or one for on/off and another to reverse one winding.

I would have thought the call switches would be run at a low voltage AC, but this is an old piece of gear so maybe they weren't so fussy then... I would also have guessed there would be a low voltage AC source in the chair from which the 'switched in' call diode sinks either positive or negative current to (probably) ground.

This current would then used to select the appropriate direction relay(s).

This goes with my reading of "Orange (wire nut) 2 white + Gr Switches" to mean that the two call switch assemblies are wired in parallel with one side to ground... maybe ?

The problem is however that this would seem to require at least four connections to the chair - i.e. line, neutral, ground, and call control, though you seem to be clear that there are only three in the 'umbilical'.

I would also expect that the chair would stop when the call switch is released (for safety reasons), so your description of the chair going to a limit and reversing with the power connected direct suggests to me that the call control signal may have been 'shorted' in some sense.

BUT-

If there are really only black, white and green cores in the 'umbilical' then the only thing I can think of is that the green core is being used for the call control - and not as ground !!! This would be pretty nasty as the chair grounding is then only achieved through the contact with the rail, but I've seen worse ...

However it would neatly explain the described motion with the green 'umbilical' wire (i.e. call control?) connected to green ground....

If you want to test this just connect live and neutral but leave the green wire to the chair disconnected. If the chair doesn't move than touch the green to ground and see what happens !

One other possible 'gotcha' is that the controls on the chair may require the chair to be occupied before they function (as detected by a sprung switch under the seat).

Cheers

.

Blackadder
08-17-2010, 12:48 PM
to follow on from barrington's post

may be the chair is operating correctly eg. it is trying to home ready for use. and needs someone on the chair to get it to move under control


Stuart

gmatov
08-17-2010, 10:52 PM
Don,

The switches are working only "after a fashion", that is in one way or another, I can get them to do nothing, get them to make the chair buck, as though trying to go both directions at once, or another way, have another combination of depressed switches cause it to buck.

In no combination have I been able to move it with the arm switches.

Your insight about "Orange (wire nut) + Gr" is a "plus" as in connected TO GROUND or GREEN. It is not positive, as Hot wire/black wire. There definitely is a ground from the frame of the lift, a green pigtail bonded to the junction box.

I can see the ground from the Line being bonded to the box, if there are internal grounding points from the electricals/electronics on the chair, through the bonded ground to the line ground. That would give me just Black/White from Line connected to the chair, Black to center taps of switches.

NEWS FLASH!!! I just heard from a stair lift forum that a British vendor has, or may have, schematics for my chair. It is non-electronic. I will wait to hear from him whether he has the diagram. Seems to be very simple. Still way over my head.

I'll let you know in the next day or 2 if we can put this one to rest. Sorry if it removes a puzzle from those who have done their best to help. I just want to get this thing running.

Cheers,

George

darryl
08-17-2010, 11:16 PM
'sorry if it removes a puzzle'

I haven't been able to sleep properly since you posed this problem. Please solve it and then my brain can rest :)

Don Young
08-18-2010, 09:31 PM
George, I am still 99.9% sure that the GREEN wire in the cable to the chair (the black cable), which you have connected to the other two green ground wires, is not a GROUND wire and does NOT belong there. Unless there is another wire in the output cable, that wire has to be a POWER wire, not a GROUND. It may be the main power hot lead, to be connected to the black input cord wire along with the switch inputs. Or it may be the call/send control lead, connected to the switch outputs.

Likewise the black lead in that cable must be either main power to the chair, or the switch output lead. Logic would say that the black lead is main power and the green is switch control. If that is the case then just removing the green lead from the two grounds and leaving it hang loose should make the chair work from the arm switches. If not then connecting the green wire to the input black wire and leaving the output black wire hang should work.

The chair must work properly without the auxillary switches connected before it can work properly with the switches. The switches do nothing until pressed, as you said in the beginning.

Be sure to keep us informed of any progress.

Barrington
08-19-2010, 04:06 AM
Don,

:eek: Unless you have solid information to the contrary I think connecting the green chair wire to live mains voltage would be extremely risky.:eek:

I still believe the chair green is very likely to be a low voltage AC control, and there is a great danger that the magic smoke would be released.

If George cannot wait until he receives the wiring diagram, then my proposed experiment of simply disconnecting the chair green at least cannot do any damage...:)

Cheers,

.

Don Young
08-20-2010, 12:48 AM
Barrington, I agree that simply disconnecting the green lead is the proper approach. If my understanding is correct the chair would then work properly from the arm switches. That would then also verify that the green wire is not intended to be a ground.

However, unless there is another wire someplace, there is no other place to connect the switch wires. I now realize that the other side of the switches may then connect either to the hot (black) or neutral (white) power wires. I was assuming that the neutral connection had not been disturbed but I am now inclined to believe that is not true. It seems very logical that two of the switch wires were connected to the two neutral wires and the other two switch wires were connected to the green wire. That would be supported by the note not mentioning any white wires connected to the black wires. All colors would be the same (and therefore not note-worthy) in all wire nuts EXCEPT for the two white switch wires and the green wire. Two blacks in one wire nut, four whites in one wire nut, and two whites plus one green in an orange wire nut. "Orange (wire nut) 2 white + Gr switch"

Of course, a wiring diagram is definitely very desireable.

Barrington
08-20-2010, 05:12 AM
This is pure speculation but this is how I imagine the circuit might be:-

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss82/MrBarrington/lift.jpg

This however is using the metalwork as a return for the low voltage control signal, involving the possible intermittent contact between the chair and the rail.

Second and possibly more likely case is that the neutral is used for the LV return, since it is a reliable path.

The only bias toward the first is that both connections to the switches would be 2 white + green !!

Cheers

.

Don Young
08-20-2010, 10:58 AM
Barrington, I agree 100%, with a strong bias against use of the unreliable ground path. Voltage readings from the green lead to the others should reveal the proper return to use without danger of "letting the smoke out" whether or not the control is low-voltage. Actually, the neutral and ground are at basically the same potential, so the system could work with either return and voltage readings should be the same.

The switch leads could be reversed from your diagram with the diodes in the return line. That would just reverse the switch position functions.

Barrington
08-20-2010, 11:53 AM
Don,

As you say, if the general scheme is as drawn, then it will function with the switches connected to either neutral or to ground, since neutral and ground are commoned together somewhere upstream.

If this does turn out to be the case, the 'correct' connection might be simply determined by temporarily disconnecting the incoming ground wire, thus breaking the link between metalwork and neutral, whereupon only the designed connection should work.

Cheers

.

Don Young
08-20-2010, 10:07 PM
Yes, I had thought about breaking the ground connection to see which was the proper return. Since either should function, it would be a case of safety and reliability. I think the neutral would be more reliable but maybe more hazardous! Hopefully we will get the manufacturer's take on that when George gets a wiring diagram.

gmatov
08-21-2010, 12:12 AM
Don, and Barrington,

There is a total of 10 wires in the box. 3 Line, 3 Load, 4 Switches. Unless I get a schematic that says to use the Green as a control wire, HOT, I will not connect hot to it. Green has always been Ground, to me.

I have a schematic from a very helpful gentleman from Britain who has been trying to help me, from another Forum.

Another is the schematic of what I actually have. It is possible that the variance is because his is 220 Volt, and ours is 110.

Do these jog any minds?

BS!

Why can I not attach a file to any post I make? Here or there? I can attach to a mail, but I cannot attach to a post, here nor there, nor can I upload anything but "media" to Photobucket. Upload does not see the files I want to put into my album. Nor can I copy/paste a file to my post.

I'm a bit po'd that I can't post pics.

Cheers,

George

Barrington
08-21-2010, 06:24 AM
George,

Perhaps the preceding posts have not been clear - if you would simply disconnect the green wire coming from the chair and tell us whether this stops the immediate motion when powering up it would provide a very strong clue to help get this sorted.

As to posting the drawing, you seem to be saying Photobucket does not recognise it as 'media' ? - Is it then perhaps a PDF file ?
If it is a PDF (or indeed any 'non-media' format), a very straightforward way to convert it to 'media' (e.g. a JPG image) might be to print it out and than scan it back in as a JPG.


You have already posted links to Photobucket images so you're almost there :) - you may have simply entered the address of the image into the forum edit box:-

The address of the image was:-

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n160/gmatov/P8150712.jpg


The forum software would recognise this as a web address and automatically convert it to a web link:-

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n160/gmatov/P8150712.jpg


However, to get the image to display in the thread, the forum software has to be told that's what you want to do - the address has to be surrounded with 'tags' thus:-

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-which displays as:-

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You can either:-

1: type these tags in directly, or

2: copy the 'IMG Code' from Photobucket which already has the tags in, or

3: in the 'Go Advanced' forum editor, use the image button (a yellow square with mountains). (Position cursor at the point you want the image, click the image button, paste in the web address of the image.) Using the advanced editor give you the opportunity to preview the post to check everything's working...

Cheers

.

gmatov
08-21-2010, 11:54 AM
Barrington,

Thank you. I did as you suggest and disconnected the green from the chair. Green wire bonded to the frame is now bonded to the mains Earth, and arm switches work.

Now, in Industry, our machines always had a direct frame Earth in case of internal short. That is what I am assuming here.

Now I have to learn how to connect the switches, up and down landing. I spoke with a gentleman who sells and installs reconditioned lifts. He told me basically the same thing, nut I looked to see if I got an answer here before I tried his suggestion. You concur. He said that he will look into his paperwork and get back to me with the connections for the switch connections.

Regardless, I can live with the chair being operated from the seat. The brother will be the only one operating it. It is not imperative that I have remote call operable.

Thank you very much. You have all been very helpful.

Cheers,

George

Barrington
08-21-2010, 12:50 PM
George,

Good to hear you're making progress.

I would suggest trying the switch connections as in the diagram in post #32 - i.e. between ground and the green chair wire - I cannot guarantee it will work, but I'm now fairly confident it will.

You can connect just one or both switches for the test - whichever's easier.

The omens are good and it absolutely cannot do any damage :)

Cheers

.

gmatov
08-21-2010, 06:07 PM
I wish to tell you that the chair is properly functioning. The gentleman called me after some research and told me to connect 2 call switch wires to Frame Earth and 2 to chair umbilical Earth. A bit of switching of call wires to properly polarize, the Up landing switch calls and sends, as does the Down landing, and the chair arm switches. It stops when it meets the limits, both landings.

It does use Earth as a running or switching wire, as to direction. His first instruction was to disconnect the line and load Earth wires. Plugged it, it moved in either direction when I pressed the chair switches, and stopped at up limit and sown limit.

I am pleased to get this done with.

Thank you, gentlemen.

George

Don Young
08-21-2010, 09:04 PM
Glad you got it all sorted out. It all makes good sense now.