Recommendations for a first Mill for GSing

[gunsmith student]

Hi, My wife convinced me that it would be cheaper for me to buy my own mill than to continue to drive to a local Community College to do my work. No problem there.

I'm looking at 3 machines as a first purchase. I'll say that after cutting some 80% lowers, I may have to work to come up with other projects, although I'm sure that they will come. I've worked with Bridgeports at school.

I'm looking at the Microlux High Precision R8

http://www.micromark.com/MICROLUX-HIGH-PRECISION-HEAVY-DUTY-R8-MINIATURE-MILLING-MACHINE,9616.html

or
Grizzly GO463
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill/G0463

or Griizzly G0619
http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-21-Mill-Drill/G0619

Is there someone in the group that has made this decision or used these machines? I expect that I'll have to add the speed monitor to the Micromark Mill.
The big difference between the Micromark and the G0463 seems to be the weight/portability and features such as reverse. The G0619 adds displays for speed and depth of cut.

I realized that there's a broad range in the cost of these machines, but I'd rather spend the money and get something that would work well. I have looked online and seen a lot of used combo mill/lathes for sale, but I think I'd rather buy a dedicated machine.

thanks for any help/recommendations.

GP.

[Toolguy]

I would recommend a machine with more table travel, but if only doing handgun work you can get by with one of these. Judging strictly by the spec sheet, I would go with the G0619. The features I'm looking at are: R8 spindle, most table travel, spindle reverse, and hand crank for Z axis. The Microlux doesn't have the Z handcrank which would be a major handicap in making accurate movements in that axis.

[Boucher]

First add a location to your personal data.

I have been where you are and there are no completely right answers but I will throw out some things to consider.

Any of those machines will get you started making chips which is time better spent than running up and down the road.

In a short time you will spend more for tooling than for the machine. That makes a used machine with tooling a much better buy than it would first appear.

Keep your eyes open for good used machines. One morning my wife was reading the classifides in the Sunday paper and saw a used Bridgeport for sale. Turned out it was in like new condition with factory power feed and DRO for $2300. The good deals don't last long so you need to act swiftly when they appear.

[gunsmith student]

Thanks for the feedback Byron and Toolguy.

The work that I expect to do is on the order of handguns and AR uppers and Lowers. Newbie question: the larger table world be used for modifying barrels?

But I also hear what Byron is saying: Looking for a local machine with accessories. I did see a combo mill/lathe machine for sale locally that had a ton of accessories. Not exactly what I was looking for, but I now realize that the accessories are a major part of getting started.

thanks!

GP.

[deltaenterprizes]

Stay away from lathe/mill combos, they do neither well.

[Toolguy]

Also stay away from a mill drill with a pipe to connect the spindle to the base.
They are not nearly rigid enough to be a mill.

[Rusty Marlin]

In answer to any of the mills you're looking at... NO, and Hell NO! Honestly, they are toys.

As a gunsmith you are going to be working with steel, eventually you're going to want to make fixtures or gages, or add a rotary table or dividing head and the machine is gong to need to be rugged enough and large enough to handle those chores.

My suggestion is to save up for a Bridgeport or clone. Keep your eyes open, you never know what's going to pop up. I paid $500 for my 1957 round ram. Is it perfect, heck no, but its capable of doing dang near everything I've needed it to. Its too short for milling oct. rifle barrels, and the head doesn't swivel front to rear like a Dovetail ram machine, but I've learned to improvise.

[38_Cal]

Even though you might only be doing handgun work, a bigger table and more rigidity is worth the money. If you end up doing custom 1911 work, you might want to power checker front straps...a little machine won't have the room on the table for a medium size, fairly rigid rotary table, and won't be stiff enough to do the work quickly, easily, and repeatably. I was lucky enough to find a 10x54 Enco on EvilBay at a very attractive price...and a friend who lived near the machine dealer checked it out for me before I bid. Yep, it needed a bit of work, and it's no beauty queen, but it does the work I ask it to without complaint! :D

David

[kanton]

The Microlux High Precision R8 is a Sieg X2. I had a Harbor Freight X2 which I recently sold as I am looking to purchase a G0704 as described here:http://www.grizzly.com/products/Dril...th-Stand/G0704.

Your other Grizzly mill choices have a work envelope similar to a G0704. If you can afford it and have the room a larger mill would be even better.

[BigBoy1]

What machinces are you using at the community college? I'm sure if they have a certified course of instructions, they are NOT teaching the students by having them use mill/drill combos.

My local community college has gotten 8 Grizzly mills G9901 with DROs three years ago. The instuctor says they are of good enough quality to have the students learn to do good work on them but not so costly that there mistakes are going to bankrupt his budget like having to replace a $25K Bridgeport. So far all machines have stood up very well to students learning how to "correctly" run a milling machine.

For my own shop, I looked for three years to find a used Bridgeport. The ones I found were ready for the scrapyard and way overpriced. I ended up getting a new Bridgeport clone, a Grizzly G9902. At the time is was a real stretch for the budget but I have not regretted it for one second since I got it 5 years ago. I've been able to do anything I have wanted to do on it. You will soon find that the accessories are the key to getting the job done correctly and SAFELY. I would highly recommend a DRO. I got the three axis (vertical column mounted z-axis) A rotary table I find invaluable for cutting round surfaces.

Just my $0.02.

[gunsmith student]

Hi Folks, I really appreciate the advice, and it's opened my eyes to what the mill could/would be used for in this profession. I also need to spend more time reading the forums to learn.

To answer BigBoy1's question, the CC uses all Bridgeports, there's probably 8 of them, all with DRO. I can see the value of the a Bridgeport clone: I just don't have the room for it at this time.

Again, I really appreciate all the advice, and I'm all ears for any other suggestions.

thanks, GP.

[Highpower]

I can see the value of the a Bridgeport clone: I just don't have the room for it at this time.

Nor do I....

Which is why I went with a smaller sized clone (8X36) that j-u-s-t squeezed in below the floor joists overhead. Buy as big as you can (for now) and you won't regret it. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Projects2/Mill_Assembled.jpg

[gunsmith student]

It's a beauty Highpower! Who is the manufacturer on that 8x32? It doesn't look green enough in the photo to be a grizzly....

thanks, GP.

[Highpower]

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=100-1525&PMPXNO=954134&PARTPG=INLMK3

Fortunately the timing was right for me, because I bought it on sale at half it's current price - and had a 20% off code - and got free shipping to boot. :D

[RB211]

I have the middle one you posted a link to. That is a X3 milling machine. It is the BARE MINIMUM in my opinion for a mill. It works for me as I like to build small steam locomotives. The last link is a super X3, same as #2 just with a different motor and some electronics.
As a profession, or something you will be making a living with, I highly suggest a HELL NO on the ones you picked.
I would go with a full size knee mill.

[gunsmith student]

OK, I hear you (hell NO the small mill) and it looks like I can make room for smaller Knee Mill clone in my work area. And the cost (If I can luck out as well as Highpower) would only be ~3 times that $1300 mill for a real one.

So Highpower, how did you luck into the 1/2 price, + 20% + free shipping? Do you do a lot of business with Enco? BTW, can you install DRO on your machine?

thanks, GP

[Highpower]

So Highpower, how did you luck into the 1/2 price, + 20% + free shipping? Do you do a lot of business with Enco? BTW, can you install DRO on your machine?

thanks, GP You said it..... pure luck (right place at the right time....).
At the time I was actually trying to get my hands on one of the bench top knee mills from HF. None to be found anywhere in the country, and not much chance of getting one in the future either. Then I tried getting the identical model from Grizzly for a couple hundred bucks more. Same story - none in the country, and don't know if we'll ever get any more. :(

After those two failures I started looking at Enco and noticed the advertised sale price on the 8X36 machine. At the time they were also doing free shipping on any machine purchases as well. Then I stumbled upon the 20% code that someone posted here on the forums. After doing the math, I discovered that I could buy the larger Enco machine for the same price that the smaller Grizzly machine would have set me back after their sales tax and shipping charges. :eek:

Needless to say the decision was a no-brainer.
And yes, the machine is already drilled and tapped for mounting DRO scales on the X and Y. With a little ingenuity, you can add a Z axis yourself if you choose. My DRO is an Acu-Rite VUE and I flat out love it.

Good luck in your search!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Projects2/th_Machines.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Projects2/?action=view&current=Machines.jpg)

[BigBoy1]

BTW, can you install DRO on your machine?

thanks, GP


You will NEVER regret getting a knee mill!

Yes you can install your own DRO. I did it on both my lathe and mill and I can say it is an exercise in practical engineering. On my mill, I have the 3 axis DRO with the Z-axis on the column. Each DRO comes with many different shaped and sizes of aluminum mounting brackets so you can make it fit your particular machine.

The pracrical engineering came in when you have to solve the problem of mounting vertically and straight, a breakable glass pick-up on a sloped and slanted column. Forces you to develops your problem solving skills.

[hareng]

They are called the 836 over here, nice machines if you have the room http://www.chesteruk.net/store/836_turret_mill.htm Too close in price to these great machines - inlet a stock, drill, counterbore, chop out from 8" deep tapering up from pistol grip etc 17 mins.

Bare minimum with light cuts etc Even made aluminium rifle stocks from 4x2" aluminium http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-Milling-Machine-25/G1005Z

Even better if cant afford the 836 is this good all rounder http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-32-Gear-Head-Mill-Drill-with-Stand/G0484 Got one but with Bridgeport type power feed and DRO, they are ok. X axis travel 23 3/4" without power feed!
Same without powered head http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-Tapping-Machine/G0519
Both good for inletting rifle stocks but lack a decent spindle speed.

[Rex]

As others have pointed out, of the 3 you list, that last is the best.
The 2nd and 3rd listed are both Sieg X3s, which is a good machine. The G0619 adds Z-axis DRO and speed readout. This mill will do fine for the AR uppers and lowers and anything on a handgun. It's a stout machine, possibly the best of the benchtop mill-drills. Lots of support information out there on this model.

Next step up is one of the Asian 6x26 benchtop knee mills. Add $1000 to your price, but they are neat little mills.

For old iron, keep an eye out for a Burke Millrite, preferably the later Powermatic MVN. Those are metallic green with a white racing stripe. R8 spindle, tables up to 8x36. They are essentially a 3/4-size Bridgeport and will fit in a bedroom if need be. A couple nice ones just sold on ebay, check the completed listings.

[operator1]

Millrites are great for gunsmithing. Way more rigid and alot more mass than a benchtop mill. I have been very pleased with mine. Just added an Anilam DRO and couldn't be happier. Good luck

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b314/operator1/Powermatic-Millrite/8-6-10026.jpg

[bob308]

i know some will say too small. but if you are tight for space or plan on moving. a causing 8520 is a nice mill. i started with one did a lot of work with it.

[Rex]

Millrites are great for gunsmithing. Way more rigid and alot more mass than a benchtop mill. I have been very pleased with mine. Just added an Anilam DRO and couldn't be happier. Good luck


That is about the prettiest MVN I've seen yet.
Gorgeous in blue!

[Rusty Marlin]

I see Grizzly has a version of that little knee mill too.
Cute little thing.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/VS-Milling-Machine-with-Ram-Head/G0695

They didn't balance the over arm by putting the motor on the oppocite end like millrite, but that's probably not an issue.

[Alphawolf45]

I have full sized kneemill bridgeport clone.. In order to cut the extractor slots into breech end of rifle barrels I extend the ram and swivel the head over to the side so I can work on the barrel while its hung down over the right front side of the milltable.. Cant do that with lot of the smaller mills.

[Tom-C]

I bought the Grizzly G0619. I paid about $1,200 on sale and went to PA to get it. The DRO added about $900 to the cost and two days to install, but it was fun to do. I have an article on how I did it on the Yahoo Sieg Chat group. The power feed added about another $500, so the total I am in the mill for is about $2,900 without tooling.

That said, I am very happy with it. I have taken several NRA gunsmithing classes at Montgomery Community College in NC (highly recommended). I do mostly pistol work and have not yet found I need more or bigger. I did tighten up the gibs and reduced the backlash in X and Y. I only thing I miss from the bigger mills at school is a quill stop. If you are doing big holes in brass with the backlash present in the quill, the drill can grab. With the SX-3 all that happens is the motor controller shuts down and you have to turn off and reset, but still something I would rather not do.

[gunsmith student]

Hi Tom-C, thanks for the feedback. I just joined the X3 yahoo, can you please point me to your article?, I'd like to see what you've done.

The SX3 comes with a Z axis, almost knee function. Are you using it in your work?

Can you say more about your Gunsmithing classes, what good stuff are they teaching?

[Tom-C]

Gunsmith Student,

I have used the Z handwheel, but mostly the fine feed on the quill.

It is in the files section of the Chat Group. I use the Grizzly numbers in the title, so the title is something like; "installing the H6087 DRO on the G0619 mill". I am on travel and don't have the Yahoo login with me so I cannot point you direct.

I have taken the NRA summer program at Montgomery Community College the last three summers. First summer; machine shop for gunsmiths and 1911 accurizing. Second summer, 1911 accurizing and action jobs with Ron Powers. This past summer, 1911 accurizing (I am a slow learner) and air gun.

All great courses, great instructors and lots to learn.

[gunsmith student]

Thanks Tom, I did find your article in the Yahoo area. Thanks for posting your work.

I did check and the NRA sponsors classes in OK, MI, NC and CA.

thanks again, GP