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Too_Many_Tools
08-26-2010, 01:00 PM
I have several metal projects that I had painted with Rustoleum spray paint.

After a year or two of weathering, I see that they are fading much more than I would have expected.

Any recommendations for EASILY AVAILABLE oil based paint (can and spray) that hold up under the elements?

Also any colors that hold up better than others in an outdoor environment?

An observation....I have noticed that Rustoleum spray can paint prices have increased significantly in the last two years...from $2.29 to $4.49 in the local Walmart...with other stores seeing similar increases.

Thanks

TMT

Black_Moons
08-26-2010, 01:12 PM
Trimclad is another good brand name.. but I don't have much experianced with it myself, Except for sealing a galvanized metal drip pan for an AC unit that was leaking... Wire brushed it clean, sprayed it with ohh, 10 coats of galvanized primer, been holding water ever since.. (Who makes drip pans outta metal that can corrode! How about plastic.. aluminum.. stainless.. Anything but unpainted thinly glavanized thin sheet steel.)

And before everyone whines, the only reason I used paint was because it seemed to be about 5x easyer to seal a pinhole then remaking the pan with its tube fiting on the bottom. I fully intended to make a new one if this did'nt work, but it did work.

kc5ezc
08-26-2010, 01:29 PM
TMT: I have had good results with Sherwin Williams Industrial Enamel. Spray only and not in a rattle can. If holds up great in our heat and cold. My garage door is metal and is fine after 20 years.
Two coats and I was through. Not the cheapest, but it works.

Too_Many_Tools
08-26-2010, 01:38 PM
TMT: I have had good results with Sherwin Williams Industrial Enamel. Spray only and not in a rattle can. If holds up great in our heat and cold. My garage door is metal and is fine after 20 years.
Two coats and I was through. Not the cheapest, but it works.

How much direct sunlight is your door exposed to?

What color did you use?

TMT

PeteM
08-26-2010, 01:41 PM
Fading is worse with dark colors. First, because they don't reflect as much light. Second, because the fading shows more. Paints marked for outdoor use may have UV stabilizers, which can help a bit.

Boucher
08-26-2010, 01:41 PM
For years I have been using Rustoleum's Red primer. It is a fish oil based primer that needs their thinner. I like to prime with fairly thin first coat. There seems to be a lot of variation in actual color on that primer, it also fades but works for a long time. Rustoleum also makes a quick dry gray primer that can be put on thin and recoated with a second coat allmost instantly. I had a 700 gal tank sandblasted and primed it with that gray primer. It never got painted and set outside for several years before a little rust started to show up. That color doesn't appear to fade and I use it on trailers and recoat ever few years. The better the metal prep the better the paint sticks. For small parts I just run them thru the bead blast cabinet and prime with the spray can version of gray primer. If you can't sand/bead blast the Orthophosphate primer works nearly as good.

Another good paint for outside tanks tables etc is the old Aluminum paint. It ages well and can be recoated easily.

I also use the spray cans but they are expensive if you have very much area to cover.

You can't beat a good airless rig for big jobs but a cup gun has its place. A small air brush also has its place.

All paints fade in various degrees. The lighter colors show it less. Most LPG tanks are now painted with white epoxy.

Too_Many_Tools
08-26-2010, 01:43 PM
Trimclad is another good brand name.. but I don't have much experianced with it myself, Except for sealing a galvanized metal drip pan for an AC unit that was leaking... Wire brushed it clean, sprayed it with ohh, 10 coats of galvanized primer, been holding water ever since.. (Who makes drip pans outta metal that can corrode! How about plastic.. aluminum.. stainless.. Anything but unpainted thinly glavanized thin sheet steel.)

And before everyone whines, the only reason I used paint was because it seemed to be about 5x easyer to seal a pinhole then remaking the pan with its tube fiting on the bottom. I fully intended to make a new one if this did'nt work, but it did work.


Whine?

We ain't got no whiners around here. ;<)

As for pinhole leaks, years ago I once lived in a real rundown apartment...the landlord used cheap black spray paint to fill pinholes in the plumbing system. If that did not work, then cheap electrical tap was the next fix.

Thanks for the recommendation...I had not heard of the Trimclad brand.

TMT

Oldbrock
08-26-2010, 01:48 PM
Made a swing set out of 2" sch 40 pipe 20' tall eight years ago and painted it with Tremclad. Bought a can of it, not the spray can, and brushed it on. It's still not flaking or fading. Can't beat that. Peter

Black_Moons
08-26-2010, 02:16 PM
Oh yea, get the brush on trimclad if you want a durable finish, Its soooo thick one coat will work if you do it right, 2 to be sure. Really not much harder then the spray can.

jep24601
08-26-2010, 03:46 PM
I use marine polyurethane.

snowman
08-26-2010, 04:23 PM
Anybody use the tractor paint at Tractor Supply? They have a hardener that is supposed to make it even better.

Too_Many_Tools
08-26-2010, 04:37 PM
Anybody use the tractor paint at Tractor Supply? They have a hardener that is supposed to make it even better.

I have not..do you know who makes it for them?

In my case, hardening is not the problem.

Fading is.

I am suspecting that Rustoleum may be cutting corners on pigments used in the paint they are selling...I don't recall this problem in the past.

TMT

kenrinc
08-26-2010, 06:08 PM
I use ZeroRust. Excellent stuff, sort of like what used to be called "fleet paint", a heavy enamel. I've used the stuff for 10 years. Now one issue is that it does not like the sun, same as most paints. Their recommendation is to clear coat it with another product (their product) but I just build the film up past 5 mil and your good. It just seems to get chalky but doesn't fail. Comapred to some of the so called rust paints it's a bargain.

$.02

Ken-

kc5ezc
08-26-2010, 06:09 PM
TMT: The door faces east. The opaque stain on the redwood above the door is past needing to be redone. The door still looks fine.

Too_Many_Tools
08-26-2010, 08:56 PM
TMT: The door faces east. The opaque stain on the redwood above the door is past needing to be redone. The door still looks fine.

Thanks.

Supposely exposures to the south and west are the most toughest on coatings like paint.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
08-26-2010, 09:01 PM
For years I have been using Rustoleum's Red primer. It is a fish oil based primer that needs their thinner. I like to prime with fairly thin first coat. There seems to be a lot of variation in actual color on that primer, it also fades but works for a long time. Rustoleum also makes a quick dry gray primer that can be put on thin and recoated with a second coat allmost instantly. I had a 700 gal tank sandblasted and primed it with that gray primer. It never got painted and set outside for several years before a little rust started to show up. That color doesn't appear to fade and I use it on trailers and recoat ever few years. The better the metal prep the better the paint sticks. For small parts I just run them thru the bead blast cabinet and prime with the spray can version of gray primer. If you can't sand/bead blast the Orthophosphate primer works nearly as good.

Another good paint for outside tanks tables etc is the old Aluminum paint. It ages well and can be recoated easily.

I also use the spray cans but they are expensive if you have very much area to cover.

You can't beat a good airless rig for big jobs but a cup gun has its place. A small air brush also has its place.

All paints fade in various degrees. The lighter colors show it less. Most LPG tanks are now painted with white epoxy.

I find with many of my smaller projects, a rattle can approach works well...and that they are not worth the hassle to setup a sprayer.

I have used aluminum paint for decades with good outside results...some projects have over 20 years of outside exposure and the paint looks like new.

I have noticed that red paint seems to suffer fading...all the red trailers in the area show significant fading no matter who the manufacturer or age.

TMT

chriskat
08-26-2010, 09:26 PM
As for the cost, yes the rattle cans here are around $4 to $4.50 everywhere. For my trailer I used Rustoleum in quart cans, at Lowes they are $8.88 Ace is a little higher at $9.99. For the primer and top coat I thinned it with acetone and sprayed it on. Touch up I use a brush.

Dr Stan
08-26-2010, 11:05 PM
Anybody use the tractor paint at Tractor Supply? They have a hardener that is supposed to make it even better.

I've used TS's and Rural King's and am happy with both.

An alternative is powder coating. Check around to see if there is someone who can do large items. Smaller ones can be powder coated with HF's system and baked in a dedicated electric oven. Warning: do not use the oven in the kitchen. :eek:

Too_Many_Tools
08-26-2010, 11:10 PM
FYI...when you buy a spray can of paint, verify that the can IS the color the cap shows.

In our area, we have some smart alecks who are swapping dozens of caps to cans of other colors.

And stores will not take the cans you used back for an exchange.

TMT

Dr Stan
08-26-2010, 11:24 PM
FYI...when you buy a spray can of paint, verify that the can IS the color the cap shows.

In our area, we have some smart alecks who are swapping dozens of caps to cans of other colors.

And stores will not take the cans you used back for an exchange.

TMT

I guess you could spray some on the checkout counter before you pay for it. :D

whitis
08-26-2010, 11:49 PM
Also any colors that hold up better than others in an outdoor environment?


Yes. Avoid red. While blue tends to reflect most of the UV light that attacks paints, red absorbs it and green is in the middle. Which is why you will see red paint faded while the blue survives. I have seen some rare exceptions, though, where apparently the red was loaded with stabilizers and the blue wasn't. One company had some trucks where the red lettering was faded on some trucks and the blue on the others. That was pretty weird.

Likewise, darker colors tend to have the same problem.

A good clear coat covering apparently makes a difference and maybe even wax though buffing may damage the clearcoat and void the paint warranty on cars.

Too_Many_Tools
08-29-2010, 03:23 PM
A related question...how long does paint in a spray can last?

Does it have an expiration date?

I have noted that some spray paint (NOS) that I have had seems to plug the nozzle excessively.

The same spray can brand and color just from the store..doesn't.

Both cans are shaken the same amount of time.

TMT

metalmagpie
08-29-2010, 04:38 PM
Store your spray cans with the lids on, upside down. If you store them right side up, the sludge on the bottom plugs the tube. Upside down, no tube plugs.

Too_Many_Tools
08-29-2010, 05:03 PM
Store your spray cans with the lids on, upside down. If you store them right side up, the sludge on the bottom plugs the tube. Upside down, no tube plugs.

Good idea.

But doesn't the sludge start floating around when you shake the can?

In the past I have opened spray cans because I needed the ball bearing inside for a project...there was no sludge in the cans.

TMT

airsmith282
08-29-2010, 05:10 PM
the best stuff for out door metal stuff for paint is car laqure paints they seem to work the best, you can also use krylon paint as well it seems to do a great job as well and alot chepaer then car paint to..

alo depends on the items as well and you must do proper prep work before painting anything metal wood and so on other wise you will have problems no matter what paint you use...

spope14
08-29-2010, 06:15 PM
If I have something I need to keep good in weather, I go to the auto supply shop, one that has automotive paints, and have them mix up a spray bomb of auto laquer and also buy some clear coat. Get the metal clean and rust free, prime, paint with two coats, then clear coat. Many a project going on ten years now without any rust or peel.

I have cut corners and sone many more projects on a two year cycle, finally quit doing it. I have had the auto supply shop mix up three cans of black, white, and red for me in the past two years.

I know it costs on the front end, but I am not going out sanding things or repainting.

Bill736
08-30-2010, 12:10 AM
One trick that paint, and aluminum and vinyl siding manufacturers use to keep white outdoor products new looking is to intentionally use pigments that "chalk" . That is, UV light degrades the pigment slightly, and rain washes the degraded surface away. For white products, that makes for a better looking surface. For surfaces with darker colors, the opposite is true. Non-chalking pigments make the surfaces look better. The quality of the pigments used in outdoor paints and sidings is a key to it's durability. Titanium dioxide is a superior white pigment , and is used in both white surfaces and as an ingredient in colored surfaces, along with colored pigments. Other less expensive white pigments are common, but are not as durable. The more expensive paints tend to use better grades of weather resistant titanium dioxide , which is a UV absorber. Other white pigments such as calcium carbonate do not hold up as well. The ingredients labels usually list the pigments used in paints. Look for high percentages of titanium dioxide .