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View Full Version : Preventing nasty oil-and-crud buildup around hydraulic equipment...



Liger Zero
09-10-2010, 10:16 PM
Ok.


My two main molding presses are electric servo driven.

Normally if you have a power-driven core, unscrewing action or other type of "secondary motion" on a mold you wire said mold into the press and run the motion off of the hydro circuit. Most presses have a dedicated branch just for this.

My two main presses don't have this, I have to use dedicated power-packs with relay-and-solenoid stacks that talk to the machine. I'm using the setup that Cincinnati recommends.

The rest of my machines including the soon-to-arrive big blue are hydro-powered.

Now, behold this picture:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/Lizoid/Crap.jpg

This is an inch-thick layer of oil, dust, floor-dry and god knows what else that accumulated around an Arburg press I purchased.

Proper R&M will go a long way to preventing this kind of mess, but what else can I do to avoid this kind of buildup?

I'm looking at sealing the floor around the hydro presses... do these products stand up to vibration, hot oil and chemical attack? In other words is it worth it?

What about floor-sorbants. Floor-Dry and cat-litter turn into mud... Is saw-dust better at preventing this kind of accumulation? What about corn-cob?

Finally, what can I do about getting serious oil stains out of cement if they occur?

squirrel
09-10-2010, 10:45 PM
That's a nasty one, I like to have a heavy pan made and then use a sucker to pull it out. It looks like some one was tossing absorbant down their and did not clean it up. The only thing I know of that will remove an oil stain from concrete is a fresh coat of paint.

RancherBill
09-10-2010, 11:21 PM
I have only tackled motor oil stains some of which were measured in 1/8 to 1/4 of inches of buildup not the full inches you are talking about.

My technique was scrape, soak with Varsol (aka paint thinner, mineral spirits or white spirits) scrub vigorously using lots of elbow grease. Wipe up or use kitty litter, repeat several times. It works well and cosmetically gets rid of the stain on the top 1/8" (?) of the concrete.

Does anybody know an internet source for Elbow Grease, I don't have as much any more?

Liger Zero
09-10-2010, 11:24 PM
Does anybody know an internet source for Elbow Grease, I don't have as much any more?

I got plenty. dilithium-molly elbow-grease... at least 150 pounds of it. :D


Goal is to prevent buildup like this from happening in the first place via R&M and daily cleaning. I spent $$$ on this new concrete slab and I DO NOT want a mess like this in my shop.

RobbieKnobbie
09-10-2010, 11:42 PM
I think you already have your answer. Fix leaks as you find them and you won't get puddels to begin with.

+1 on the pan. Many of the machines that I've installed had pans placed underneath first and that always leads to easier housekeeping down the road.

Evan
09-11-2010, 12:19 AM
Depending on how "new" the concrete is you probably won't have much luck with the majority of hard floor sealers. Two part epoxy paint is about as tough and chemical resistant as you can get but I would not put it on a recently poured floor. It will still be full of water and you have a pretty high humidity factor there in summer. Make that miserably high. I spent plenty of time on the east coast in summer.

There are water based acrylic sealers that will help but hot oil is a pretty tough solvent to deal with. The best one I can think of is "Scotchguard Floor Protector". It is intended for concrete in high traffic areas and has a very good stain resistance rating. It is the product we used to recommend to customers for floor finish in machine rooms where there might be leakage of various oils.

Too_Many_Tools
09-11-2010, 12:26 AM
I think you already have your answer. Fix leaks as you find them and you won't get puddels to begin with.

+1 on the pan. Many of the machines that I've installed had pans placed underneath first and that always leads to easier housekeeping down the road.


Same here...a pan is the way to go...around and under the machines...pad the bottom with roofing paper, rubber membrane, whatever so the machine doesn't wear through the pan to the concrete and give you small little leaks..

You could build a small curb around the pan that will make it look like a really classy setup...and will keep the setup easy to work with later.

TMT

squirrel
09-11-2010, 01:09 AM
It would be very wise to paint the floor a couple of years prior to retirement if you plan on selling the building. If you have fresh paint on the floor the person doing the enviromental inspection will be snooping around looking for old pad marks then drilling some holes. If the floor looks used and not like your trying to hide something you will be better off.

wierdscience
09-11-2010, 01:33 AM
RM will only go so far,it's hydraulic and there will be drips and leaks.

A pan is the best idea,it only needs to be 1/2" deep,beyond that a dry sorb mat or poly sheet and loose granule dry sorb.

rockrat
09-11-2010, 08:53 AM
We had a few blow mold machines at the old place and we had a similar problem. We made large pans that were under the entire machine, elevated and gave them slope so they flowed toward a catch in the floor that was dedicated for the oil and pumped regularly.

The pans were fitted with Antislip Serrated treads so that the entire surface could be walked on as the oil drained underneath. Outside of that, the floors were swept daily and moped up as needed. But to be honest, there was less oil outside the pan area after install of the treads.

The floors had been sealed but never painted and with as cheap as the place could be, I doubt the sealer was expensive.

rock~

Forrest Addy
09-11-2010, 12:28 PM
I gotta be harsh.

That floor is pretty bad. If the problem is one machine it's the operator. If it's the whole section it's the supervisor. If it's the whole shop it's lax and lazy management. If the problem doesn't come from leaks you can't control at the moment for some reason it looks like you have a housekeeping problem. Either way it's neglect. Open cycle oiling is the one alibi I can see and that can be contained in a pitched pan the whole machine sits in. It's the job of the operator or helper to keep the pan pumped out.

I've been in a lot of dirty shops and concluded most of the dirt amd inconvenience was tolerated neglect. I went through a foundry in the early '70's that had a long lean-to where a dozen Bullards were installed to rough the valve castings they made. There was a partial wall between the machine shop and the shake-out and sand prep area just behind but clouds of gritty dust drifted over the top of the wall to the machine side. I was told rhey wore out a Bullard (normally a durable machne) in a just a few years. There was always one in re-build. I was just a tourist so I kept my mouth shut. I couldn't help wondering why they didn't seal off the machine shop from the shakeout shop with a couple of the truck tarps they had by the shipping door.

With many manufacturing processes it's hard to keep a facility clean. Once dirt and neglect take hold clean-up is expensive at first. Many shops set once-a-week half hour after lunch as an all hands clean-up time. The result is better production because there is less clutter and far more order, and lower insurance premiums because a clean shop is a safe shop - and that is no BS.

Accumulations of oil under presses having sumps to clear sub-floor protruions pose a special problem. These sumps have to be designed for cleaning to keep them clear of oil and mess. It can be simple as a pipe or a hose led to the sump bottom.

Then too, sumps, chip pans, corners etc cannot be treated as garbage cans and instant action should be taken against anyone leaving an apple core, lunch bag, cigarett butt, or a sandwich crust anywhere but a closed garbage can emptied every night. Rats can be a terrible nuisance and you never see them until the problem is almost epidemic

Same goes with accumulatons of oily floor dry. It's a fire hazard. Tramp oil happens. When it does, spread floor dry immediately after you clean up the standng oil. When it recurs clean up the old floor dry before you spread new. Then you don't get those inches of oily cake.

I think you need to give your press operators a talking to - after you work out a whole shop cleanliness policy. Be ready to fire a scapegoat if necessary.

Liger Zero
09-11-2010, 01:03 PM
Actually this isn't my shop in the picture. :D I purchased a press from them and rigged it out myself.

Other shops I worked in, had messes like this. To me a handful 50 cent o-ring and two hours of down a week of R&M is money well spent....

Rather do that than have an yearly line-item in the budget for floor-dry.

In my mind there is no excuse for these kind of leaks, taped over switches and operational features that no one uses because they are too stupid to read the manual. If you are going to invest $50,000 into a new machine... $150 bucks worth of grease, electrical work and o-rings a year go a long way to keeping your investment operational.

Liger Zero
09-11-2010, 01:07 PM
I gotta be harsh.


I think you need to give your press operators a talking to - adter you work out a whole shop cleanliness policy. Be ready to fire a scapegoat if necessary.

Oh and we don't do scapegoating here. When the time comes I will fire the culprit, I won't sacrifice someone to make an example so the rest fall in line.

I've been that "sacrifice."

"Lets get rid of the new guy, make an example of him even though he isn't at fault. Maybe that'll scare the senior operators into line."

Eventually it gets to the point where the senior operators feel they can stop caring about R&M, cleanup and other parts of the routine because they know someone else will take the fall for everything.

Dr Stan
09-11-2010, 01:18 PM
Actually this isn't my shop in the picture. :D I purchased a press from them and rigged it out myself.

Other shops I worked in, had messes like this. To me a handful 50 cent o-ring and two hours of down a week of R&M is money well spent....

Rather do that than have an yearly line-item in the budget for floor-dry.

In my mind there is no excuse for these kind of leaks, taped over switches and operational features that no one uses because they are too stupid to read the manual. If you are going to invest $50,000 into a new machine... $150 bucks worth of grease, electrical work and o-rings a year go a long way to keeping your investment operational.

Liger,

Glad to hear its not your shop. To me this is a prime example of the "its got to run no matter what" mentality. People who would not dream of neglecting their cars by driving them 100,000 miles without an oil change will neglect their production equipment. I just cannot understand their "thinking" for in the long term it costs them money, and lots of it, by not performing scheduled maintenance.

Others have recommended a pan and I'll 2nd that as I have yet to see any piece of hydraulic equipment that did not leak after a short time. Just the nature of the beast. You'll need to go through the machine and find as many leaks as possible and repair them, but you already know that.

Stan

vpt
09-11-2010, 01:31 PM
I accidentally found out that aircraft paint stripper works good for cleaning cement.

Too_Many_Tools
09-11-2010, 02:17 PM
Actually this isn't my shop in the picture. :D I purchased a press from them and rigged it out myself.

Other shops I worked in, had messes like this. To me a handful 50 cent o-ring and two hours of down a week of R&M is money well spent....

Rather do that than have an yearly line-item in the budget for floor-dry.

In my mind there is no excuse for these kind of leaks, taped over switches and operational features that no one uses because they are too stupid to read the manual. If you are going to invest $50,000 into a new machine... $150 bucks worth of grease, electrical work and o-rings a year go a long way to keeping your investment operational.


And it is why OSHA has a reason to exist....

TMT

Dr Stan
09-11-2010, 08:05 PM
And it is why OSHA has a reason to exist....

TMT

Careful there TMT, you'll be accused of being "political". :eek:

Liger Zero
09-11-2010, 08:10 PM
Careful there TMT, you'll be accused of being "political". :eek:


Plenty of muck on the floor to rake and plenty of mud to sling if it comes down to it. :D

Dr Stan
09-11-2010, 08:14 PM
Plenty of muck on the floor to rake and plenty of mud to sling if it comes down to it. :D

Glad someone around here has a sense of humor. :D

Liger Zero
09-11-2010, 08:37 PM
Glad someone around here has a sense of humor. :D

There are times when ya'll take things too seriously on here.

But then again the same thing happens at the counter at my favorite diner. :D

Evan
09-12-2010, 12:10 AM
One way to deal with oil stains on the floor is to prestain the floor with oil. :D

Too_Many_Tools
09-13-2010, 11:44 PM
Careful there TMT, you'll be accused of being "political". :eek:

LOL..I have that effect on some people.

If I said the sky is blue and there are fish in the sea, there are those who would disagree. (if you have been watching the news you will get the real joke here. ;<))

Talking about cleaning up oily floors, here is a real test for the method...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_sci_gulf_oil_spill_sea_floor/print

TMT