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View Full Version : "waiting for ads.villagepress.com".....do you get this?



J Tiers
09-11-2010, 10:11 AM
Recently I have been getting a lot of 1 to 2 minute delays on reloading a page, with the hangup operation being per the title.

I KNOW FOR SURE it is NOT the local ISP, so don't bring that up....... A lot of data is transferred, I can see that happen, and the hangup seems to be the adserver.

Usually, I just leave when that happens, because it will last for 5 to 10 minutes before the adserver gets back to "normal" operation.

Never used to happen..... now it is nearly every visit here.

Just basically a note to the site folks, in case they want to do anything about it.

MichaelP
09-11-2010, 10:30 AM
I had those delays a few days ago.

aboard_epsilon
09-11-2010, 10:32 AM
and me..
had to press refresh all the time to get page to load.

all the best.markj

Tony Ennis
09-11-2010, 10:36 AM
HSM seems to have 2 servers. When a request hangs clicking the refresh button seems to cause the request to be sent to the other server.

I've never had the refresh hang.

Evan
09-11-2010, 10:46 AM
I block the ad server so it never happens. It is already way too slow on satellite.

dp
09-11-2010, 01:19 PM
That link is blocked in my proxy server and not passed on as a request to the web server, so nope - never see it.

Too_Many_Tools
09-11-2010, 01:23 PM
I have seen that but I have noticed that the site got MUCH SLOWER about a week ago.

So something has changed.

The mods should take a hard look at what ads are running.

I also mentioned earlier that I was seeing Yahoo not load properly...and I have seen the same behavior on Google a couple of times.

A common thread may be the source or type of ads.

TMT

Black_Moons
09-11-2010, 02:34 PM
I wonder why websites allow 'ads' to be hosted offsite and forcefed anyway, it seems to me its a giant reliability/security problem, Not to mention makes it about 2000x easyer to filter the ads by domain.

I think site owners should have to download the ads, scan them, and then put them up on thier own. yes more work, but no you can't whine 'Ohh its a virus in the ads! not my fault at all, I just registered with them and get payment from them, Clearly not my fault at all that they are virus seeding scum of the earth'

(not saying that village press does have bad ads, they seem to be one of the better ad servers, but for the net overall, and as mentioned here, some people block the ads (most likey by domain) and others have problems accessing the website when the ad server goes down or goes slow. (Because for some reason downloading one gif is seen by your browser as more important then displaying the damn page)

dp
09-11-2010, 02:48 PM
Using advert providers makes for a better advert experience for the web site and for the end users. The software is supported and usually well integrated into the forum software, and they provide excellent metrics useful to the advertiser and the forum admins. It also means you don't need to spend as much time dealing with all the burden that goes with on-line advertising.

Black_Moons
09-11-2010, 03:03 PM
DP: Oh yes, I always love the 'better' forum experiance when advert companys suddenly foist full motion with sound ads on websites, rootkits, 0day exploits, etc that compermise my online banking and other accounts, And then the admin just says "Sorriee, Not my fault! blame the ad company I signed up for and pays me to allow them to put this crap on my website'

(Again, No disrespect for village press, they have done a good job at not screwing around and only hosting the agreed apon ads. But other forums I have been to with other advertisement companys, have had full motion/sound ads in rotation for weeks when everyone on the forum whines the admins just go 'sorry we'r trying to work it out')

And for a forum like this where they only show the same two ads for months at a time, why would you even need it hosted externaly? Theres no alterations to be done, no updates to constantly do, its just a security vunerability. If villagepress needs user metrics, it could get them from HSM.net directly after hsm installs the right code to log it.

PS: the number of people who block most advertiser domains is incressing. Local hosting of ads would defeat this and make it MUCH MUCH harder for users to filter out ads.

IE: My idea improves security for users, Improves security for website owners, improves number of people who view the ads for advertisers and website owners, And all it costs is a little work and benifits EVERYONE in the whole ad->web->user food chain.

dp
09-11-2010, 04:45 PM
DP: Oh yes, I always love the 'better' forum experiance when advert companys suddenly foist full motion with sound ads on websites, rootkits, 0day exploits, etc that compermise my online banking and other accounts, And then the admin just says "Sorriee, Not my fault! blame the ad company I signed up for and pays me to allow them to put this crap on my website'

The banner ads here are served from the HSM server. The ads.villagepress.com server is the same machine as bbs.homeshopmachinist.net.



And for a forum like this where they only show the same two ads for months at a time, why would you even need it hosted externaly?

They don't.


Theres no alterations to be done, no updates to constantly do, its just a security vunerability.

Having a proper advert delivery infrastructure is a practical aspect of running an on-line enterprise. They are not easy to create from scratch. Here's an example of what you have to know and understand: http://api.prototypejs.org/


If villagepress needs user metrics, it could get them from HSM.net directly after hsm installs the right code to log it.

They're the same company - and the important part is to demonstrate your ad hosting is of benefit to the advertiser. That requires more sophistication and third-party involvement so you don't appear to have your thumb on the scale.


PS: the number of people who block most advertiser domains is incressing. Local hosting of ads would defeat this and make it MUCH MUCH harder for users to filter out ads.

The ads are hosted locally here and are being blocked by more and more people. It does not matter where the ads are hosted as it relates to them being blocked by the visitor. There is a simple fix that will prevent visitors from seeing content if the adverts are blocked but it is a draconian step that can drive away more people than not. That leaves the problem for the provider of this site: How to pay for it? Goodwill doesn't pay the bills.


IE: My idea improves security for users, Improves security for website owners, improves number of people who view the ads for advertisers and website owners, And all it costs is a little work and benifits EVERYONE in the whole ad->web->user food chain.

Your idea is already in place here. Don't know why you thought it wasn't.

To clarify something I said above. The vp ad site and this site are the same machine. It may be more complex than that but that is hidden inside their network. Where I work there is one IP used for a wide range of domains. We have over 100 web servers all using that IP. That IP is actually a pair of F5 Big-IP traffic managers that route incoming requests to the least-busy web server. Depending on the specific request, some of the data comes from caching servers hosted by Akamai - those objects will show up in the browser's page info as coming from Akamai but that can also be cloaked.

Example: I provide DNS and subdomain hosting for a site that I don't own and have never seen. The owner wanted to piggyback on my domain for his pages. The visitor has no idea this is happening in the background, and in fact sometimes I get called out to fix that system when it breaks :)

So this is how it would be possible to host ads offsite while not appearing to do so. That does not seem to be the case with HSM because all the traffic here comes from a common source.

cuemaker
09-11-2010, 05:17 PM
I run AdBlock and dont ever see an ad or a banner on most websites...

Evan
09-11-2010, 05:29 PM
I have seen that but I have noticed that the site got MUCH SLOWER about a week ago.

It isn't your imagination and it also isn't Village Press. During the last week there have been major traffic nodes 100% down in North America. That includes at this time, Toronto, Vancouver, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Wisconsin, New Hampshire and Texas. Right now the packet loss rate in North America is around 18% which is very high.

No, I don't know why.

CCWKen
09-11-2010, 05:46 PM
We just had a tropical storm blow through from the Gulf coast, San Antonio and on up through Dallas and beyond. It took out a lot of power lines and dumped 6-12 inches of rain up I-35. Things were running slow all over until today.

Too_Many_Tools
09-11-2010, 07:07 PM
FWIW...I run a freeware package PingPloter Freeware that I use to monitor web health.

Sometime the web is just a train wreck.

And sometime it is running very well.

Knowing that it is the web and not my machine keeps me from ripping my hair out.

TMT

lazlo
09-11-2010, 08:08 PM
FWIW...I run a freeware package PingPloter Freeware that I use to monitor web health.

I'm on Texas Road Runner, and I'm not seeing any slowdowns.

By the way, VisualRoute Lite has a much nicer interface than Ping Plotter:

http://www.visualroute.com/lite.html

J Tiers
09-11-2010, 08:19 PM
It isn't your imagination and it also isn't Village Press. During the last week there have been major traffic nodes 100% down in North America. That includes at this time, Toronto, Vancouver, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Wisconsin, New Hampshire and Texas. Right now the packet loss rate in North America is around 18% which is very high.

No, I don't know why.


Well, it IS "just Village Press"...... Other sites are speedy.

All sorts of nodes may or may not be down...... but it isn't bothering anything else except PM, and that is almost always dog-slow, so who can tell the difference?

lazlo
09-11-2010, 08:49 PM
Well, it IS "just Village Press"...... Other sites are speedy.

Is it slow right now? I just ran a ping sequence to bbs.homeshopmachinist.net, and I'm getting consistent 60 ms pings. I really haven't seen any change in months.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u15/rtgeorge_album/HSMForum.png


it isn't bothering anything else except PM, and that is almost always dog-slow, so who can tell the difference?

Don made such a huge mistake blanketing PM with Flash adds and Google Analytics crap. There's a Google extension for Chrome called "Speed Tracer" which builds a histogram of a web page hit, showing how much time for the sender request, the server response, etc.

http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/speedtracer/

PM's slow response is completely dominated by server-side garbage.

Evan
09-11-2010, 09:25 PM
Well, it IS "just Village Press"...... Other sites are speedy.


What you see is entirely dependent on your particular connection and service provider. It then depends on the connection that your service provider has to the top tier providers and then depends on the interconnects between top tier providers to the eventual target server.

My average latency is around 1200 milliseconds.

lazlo
09-11-2010, 09:26 PM
My average latency is around 1200 milliseconds.

Wow! Did you run a trace route? Where's the lag?

J Tiers
09-11-2010, 09:32 PM
perhaps........ but in any case, the real issue is NOT WITH VILLAGE PRESS, it is with the ADSERVER. The adserver is hanging up and preventing a page load. this is not unknown, many sites have these problems, especially when an off-site tracking site is heavily used by multiple thousands of websites. Any hangup there, and everything stalls.

That does not matter, the problem appears on VILLAGE PRESS, ONLY.

Whether that server is on the same machine or in Shanghai, it has been hanging up, although I see other info pieces are received quickly.....

Robert, ..... No, it is speedy right now, although it was slow earlier. OK on all other websites looked at.

Liger Zero
09-11-2010, 09:36 PM
It isn't your imagination and it also isn't Village Press. During the last week there have been major traffic nodes 100% down in North America. That includes at this time, Toronto, Vancouver, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Wisconsin, New Hampshire and Texas. Right now the packet loss rate in North America is around 18% which is very high.

No, I don't know why.

I wonder if this could be why I keep losing my internet connection... 5/6 attempts to load something result in a time-out... i hit "renew/refresh IP" and it's better for a few moments.

Very frustrating.

Evan
09-11-2010, 10:55 PM
Wow! Did you run a trace route? Where's the lag?


40,000 km up, 40,000 km down, 40,000 km up, 40,000 km down for every get request. Every single item to be fetched has to come from the Moon.

CCWKen
09-11-2010, 11:06 PM
I'm running about 125ms latency and that's with six 100% packet drops. There appears to be a problem with some of the Comcast, Columbus and Cogentco routers. That's where the packets are dropping out. (For me.)

dp
09-11-2010, 11:13 PM
Here is what is requested and downloaded without any caching proxy filtering:

1284260751.291 728 192.168.1.60 TCP_MISS/200 15169 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forumdisplay.php? - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 text/html
1284260751.437 245 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 299 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/clientscript/vbulletin_global.js - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260751.468 247 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 299 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/clientscript/vbulletin_menu.js - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260751.864 643 192.168.1.60 TCP_MISS/200 621 GET http://ads.villagepress.com/ad/js? - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 text/javascript
1284260751.994 772 192.168.1.60 TCP_MISS/200 586 GET http://ads.villagepress.com/ad/js? - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 text/javascript
1284260752.154 253 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/misc/navbits_start.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.186 284 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/misc/navbits_finallink.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.218 313 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/misc/menu_open.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.300 419 192.168.1.60 TCP_MISS/200 1568 GET http://ads.villagepress.com/ad/images? - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 text/html
1284260752.369 297 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/buttons/newthread.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.400 321 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/buttons/sortasc.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.433 353 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/statusicon/thread_hot.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.467 278 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/icons/icon1.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.515 501 192.168.1.60 TCP_MISS/200 1482 GET http://ads.villagepress.com/ad/images? - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 text/html
1284260752.543 321 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/misc/subscribed.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.612 458 192.168.1.60 TCP_MISS/200 10930 GET http://www.google-analytics.com/ga.js - DIRECT/72.14.213.101 text/javascript
1284260752.613 308 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/misc/sticky.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.643 271 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/misc/multipage.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.684 278 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/buttons/lastpost.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.716 279 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/statusicon/thread_hot_lock.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.749 279 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/statusicon/thread_dot_hot_new.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.791 272 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/buttons/firstnew.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.857 309 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/statusicon/thread_new.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.893 275 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/statusicon/thread_hot_new.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.925 305 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/rating/rating_5.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260752.930 138 192.168.1.60 TCP_MISS/200 500 GET http://www.google-analytics.com/__utm.gif? - DIRECT/72.14.213.101 image/gif
1284260752.959 314 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/statusicon/thread_dot_hot.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260753.002 316 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/icons/icon9.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260753.036 309 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/icons/icon4.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260753.069 318 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/statusicon/thread.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260753.081 79 192.168.1.60 TCP_MISS/200 500 GET http://www.google-analytics.com/__utm.gif? - DIRECT/72.14.213.101 image/gif
1284260753.180 321 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/statusicon/thread_lock.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260753.216 320 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/statusicon/thread_dot.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260753.237 200 192.168.1.60 TCP_MISS/200 500 GET http://www.google-analytics.com/__utm.gif? - DIRECT/72.14.213.102 image/gif
1284260753.248 321 192.168.1.60 TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304 298 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/images/buttons/collapse_thead.gif - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 -
1284260753.778 848 192.168.1.60 TCP_MISS/200 36493 GET http://ads.villagepress.com/ad/images/view? - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 image/gif
1284260754.196 1237 192.168.1.60 TCP_MISS/200 167576 GET http://ads.villagepress.com/ad/images/view? - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 image/gif

And this is what you request with a proxy:

1284260953.954 45 192.168.1.60 TCP_DENIED/403 913 GET http://ads.villagepress.com/ad/js? - NONE/- text/html
1284260953.974 0 192.168.1.60 TCP_DENIED/403 913 GET http://ads.villagepress.com/ad/js? - NONE/- text/html
1284260954.023 0 192.168.1.60 TCP_DENIED/403 913 GET http://ads.villagepress.com/ad/js? - NONE/- text/html
1284260954.126 889 192.168.1.60 TCP_MISS/200 15111 GET http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forumdisplay.php? - DIRECT/69.223.24.78 text/html
1284260954.239 112 192.168.1.60 TCP_DENIED/403 913 GET http://www.google-analytics.com/__utm.gif? - NONE/- text/html


Everything else is cached so the only requests that are submitted to the server are those things that are new or which are never cached because they're blocked.

Note that everything comes from either Village Press, HSM (they have the same IP: 69.223.24.78), or Google. No third world advert servers.

Evan
09-12-2010, 06:33 AM
There are definitely some serious problems on the net right now and it seems to be worsening. I wonder what is causing this?

These numbers are very poor.

http://ixian.ca/pics7/netreport.jpg

In the US there seem to be a lot of nodes either down or in bad shape. The ones in red are losing more than 30% of data packets to as low as 100% loss.


http://ixian.ca/pics7/netreport2.jpg

dp
09-12-2010, 11:17 AM
iPhone 4 and the new iPad, and all the new 'Droid devices. All rich media devices. If the traffic were to be broken down by port it would likely show a lot of email, 90+% of which is spam, and a lot of porn video.

Liger Zero
09-12-2010, 12:37 PM
Crappy made-in-china "cheap capacity" servers, routers, switches and other internet devices all failing at once.

"Hey look we can install fifty hyper-ultra-mega-giga-woots of capacity for $100! What could POSSIBLY go wrong?"

**two months later**

"What? The ENTIRE internet is down? How the hell did that happen?"

Liger Zero
09-12-2010, 01:18 PM
There are definitely some serious problems on the net right now and it seems to be worsening. I wonder what is causing this?

These numbers are very poor.

http://ixian.ca/pics7/netreport.jpg

In the US there seem to be a lot of nodes either down or in bad shape. The ones in red are losing more than 30% of data packets to as low as 100% loss.


http://ixian.ca/pics7/netreport2.jpg


Where are you getting this information? Just curious. Couple of friends Down Under and one in Europe are complaining about the Internet being rather spotty today.

dp
09-12-2010, 01:33 PM
There are a number of sites. Here is Akamai:

http://www.akamai.com/html/technology/dataviz1.html

Liger Zero
09-12-2010, 01:50 PM
Thank you. I know what to search for now.

dp
09-12-2010, 01:54 PM
Thank you. I know what to search for now.

http://tinyurl.com/385blzc

Liger Zero
09-12-2010, 02:00 PM
I was trying various combination of words that resulted in lots of LAN and WAN software packages but nothing "global" like this. :)