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GKman
09-13-2010, 07:12 PM
A lot of fence on our farm needs replaced which will require 15 or 20 new corners, ends, gate posts. Eight inch X 8 treated posts are up to $19.95 and already crooked. Two of them plus a piece of two inch pipe for the diagonal and its starting to turn into money plus all the work setting, lining up, tamping and bracing. I pulled one that I had set about 7 years ago and one side had rotted 2 deep already. Im thinking about precasting the corner-brace- bracepost in one piece with rebar sticking out the bottom and cementing them into a couple of 12 post holes. My skid steer loader could easily haul two plus concrete for the holes and a simple jig staked to the ground could align and level until the concrete sets. Plastic pipe tubes for eyebolts would be cast in. Thinking about 8 square posts with the brace thinner for the barbed wire to pass by. Would use steel Tee posts for all the line posts. Will sell the place some day and would like somebody to think The price is awfully high but thats sure is a good looking fence around it.
Any thoughts?

Precast
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/gkman/P9130002.jpg

Old Way
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/gkman/P9130003.jpgld way

Weston Bye
09-13-2010, 07:20 PM
What's the volume of the post? Sand, gravel and concrete, or bags of quick mix? That'll give you an idea as to the cost. Even if it is equal to the conventional method, The concrete is for ever and has class and style. I like it!

becksmachine
09-13-2010, 08:09 PM
The may not be available in your area, but you might check on a supply of concrete railroad ties. I know a farmer here that would ship a few thousand to you if you wanted. ;)

Dave

Boucher
09-13-2010, 08:26 PM
In this country fire often dammages fences with wooden line posts so steel T's are the way to go there. Having been in the water well drilling business I have had all kinds of steel pipe and drill stem. Installed properly it is just about permanent. Wire is much harder to secure to steel than to wood. Even wrapped several times it tends to slide from the tangent point back to the center of the post. The eyebolt type tightners work good but be carefull. A rancher friend who has built a lot of fence over the years lost an eye when a wire broke and popped back. Like a lot of things wire quality is not what it used to be. There are some fine points to help preserve wood posts. Some terminate the concrete a couple of inches below the surface and cover it with dirt. My preference is to have a big post hole and bring the concrete above ground level and dome it so that it drains. Things don't allways work the same in different parts of the country but the old timers generally had most of their fence buildingworked out.

GKman
09-13-2010, 08:26 PM
Looks like about 9 cu ft. I already have a little mixer set up with sand a gravel for some small projects. Would take about 1.6 sacks of portland for each. about $15 each for sand, gravel and portland.

wierdscience
09-13-2010, 11:22 PM
There used to be some around here that were 10" round and 10' long.They had concentric grooves cast in them for the wire to wrap around.Just a loop of rebar in the top for a lifting eye.They set the fist four foot in the ground and no braces were needed due to the weight length.I haven't seen any since I was a kids though,I think the state DOT didn't like them.

oldtiffie
09-14-2010, 09:31 AM
In OZ, a lot, if not most, of all rural fencing is treated pine posts. They have varying levels of decay protection (and costs) associated with the environment in which they are used and their intended purpose. They are extensively used in property boundary fencing, internal fencing, vineyards and where espaliering is required.

They are almost always put in by specialist contractors with a tractor-mounted drilling rig and ram/pile-driver. So they are pre-drilled (under-sized) and rammed in. Some posts are pointed, others not.

A good contractor can do the entire fencing very well and very efficiently at very reasonable cost.

I am surprised that those posts rotted out so quickly as it should not happen for many years if the correct type and grade of post and preservation treatment were used.

There are severe restrictions on the use and disposal of TP here as well.

Carld
09-14-2010, 09:59 AM
Around here they use cedar fence posts that may outlast a teenager putting them in.

Abner
09-14-2010, 10:18 AM
I too have fence to build and fencing that hasn't worked. There are various grades of PT some no more than coloring in my opinion. I have looked around and 2 systems seem to be most stout - 4" plain steel pipe driven and used power poles. These ridiculous white plastic fences degrade eventually.

I like the metal with concrete footings. I would think there should be a T post corner system somewhere.

Abner
09-14-2010, 10:23 AM
Isn't the internet wonderful.....

Wedge loc-Bracing hardware for T-Posts

Does corners, gate post etc.

http://wedgeloc.qwestoffice.net/

oldtiffie
09-14-2010, 10:27 AM
Oh - forgot.

Corner, strainer and gate posts are quite easy to do - and quick and not too expensive at all. Once the wire is correctly strained the fence and its bracing work very well.

Also - following on from Carld, we had a Contractor replace some paling fencing recently. The original fence was not TP but poor quality durable hard-wood which lasted ~35years. The TP palings were 6 feet, the TP rails were 3" x 1 1/2" and 3" x 2" and the TP plinth was 6" x 1". The posts were 5" x 3" cedar. Nailing gun nails were screwed and heavily galvanised.

Post holes were bored with a power auger, and back-filled and rammed with a mix of dry quick-set cement and clay from the hole.

Solid as a rock.

GKman
09-14-2010, 10:47 AM
I am surprised that those posts rotted out so quickly as it should not happen for many years if the correct type and grade of post and preservation treatment were used.


I think some kid (allegedly) chewed on a piece of treated playground equipment and got sick. Government panicked and industry cashed in on the opportunity. Consumers are locked in on treated wood, why not save expensive chemicals, cut the life in half and sell it twice as often? Look what it did for the glass industry. Sell double thickness panes that cloud up inside in 20 or thirty years. Glass that wears out like tires or shoes! What a concept!

SGW
09-14-2010, 10:56 AM
I think you would need to put rebar in the casting itself (especially the curved brace and the flat connector at the bottom). Keep in mind that concrete is incredibly strong in compression, but extremely weak in tension.

Too_Many_Tools
09-14-2010, 11:29 AM
I think some kid (allegedly) chewed on a piece of treated playground equipment and got sick. Government panicked and industry cashed in on the opportunity. Consumers are locked in on treated wood, why not save expensive chemicals, cut the life in half and sell it twice as often? Look what it did for the glass industry. Sell double thickness panes that cloud up inside in 20 or thirty years. Glass that wears out like tires or shoes! What a concept!

Ignorance can be cured by education.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_preservation

Heavy metal poisoning is the problem.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
09-14-2010, 11:33 AM
I too have fence to build and fencing that hasn't worked. There are various grades of PT some no more than coloring in my opinion. I have looked around and 2 systems seem to be most stout - 4" plain steel pipe driven and used power poles. These ridiculous white plastic fences degrade eventually.

I like the metal with concrete footings. I would think there should be a T post corner system somewhere.

One can cut a post and look at its cross section to see how good the PT has been done.

If it is just a thin surface coat it is not the more expensive PT, send the material back to the yard.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
09-14-2010, 11:40 AM
A lot of fence on our farm needs replaced which will require 15 or 20 new corners, ends, gate posts. Eight inch X 8 treated posts are up to $19.95 and already crooked. Two of them plus a piece of two inch pipe for the diagonal and its starting to turn into money plus all the work setting, lining up, tamping and bracing. I pulled one that I had set about 7 years ago and one side had rotted 2 deep already. Im thinking about precasting the corner-brace- bracepost in one piece with rebar sticking out the bottom and cementing them into a couple of 12 post holes. My skid steer loader could easily haul two plus concrete for the holes and a simple jig staked to the ground could align and level until the concrete sets. Plastic pipe tubes for eyebolts would be cast in. Thinking about 8 square posts with the brace thinner for the barbed wire to pass by. Would use steel Tee posts for all the line posts. Will sell the place some day and would like somebody to think The price is awfully high but thats sure is a good looking fence around it.
Any thoughts?

Precast
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/gkman/P9130002.jpg

Old Way
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/gkman/P9130003.jpgld way


What is the freeze-thaw cycle at your location?

What is the depth of the frost line?

Bear in mind that a fence contracts as the temperature drops...putting an extensive strain on the wire and posts.

That means those eyebolts and their bearing points will need to restand it.

Corrosion resistance needs means that they will need to be galvanised.

Depending on the quantity you need, check with your local utility company for the hardware.

TMT

Black Forest
09-14-2010, 12:38 PM
Google Gallagher fencing. They have everything you need to build a good fence. What are you trying to fence in or out? That will sure make a difference.

RancherBill
09-14-2010, 12:48 PM
I think some kid (allegedly) chewed on a piece of treated playground equipment and got sick. Government panicked and industry cashed in on the opportunity.

I don't think their is a conspiracy - there is science behind them restricting Chromated Copper Arsenate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromated_copper_arsenate)

I think your idea has merits. It would definitely scream QUALITY to potential buyers. It's a lot of work but it would be unique.

A random thought, is that at 90 degree corners you would want to add an additional brace. So you might consider and extra through hole in the main casting and a second form that is just the brace.

digger_doug
09-14-2010, 01:06 PM
It's been done for eon's

Here (hopefully) is a scan from an old British book
from around 1930
Here is another by the same author:
http://books.google.com/books?id=CWlDAAAAIAAJ&q=concrete+fences&dq=concrete+fences&hl=en&ei=JJ6PTIjNKMOGnQefy6HwDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA

Edit: HELP ! I've got this file as a scanned pdf...

Tried the slot in the front of the computer, no good.

I am not seeing much in the way of concrete fences nowadays, as what is in that book (the google link)
Their they describe all different kinds, including prestressed posts.

gwinn
09-14-2010, 01:28 PM
I've done it for thirty years. May I humbly suggest that while your plan sounds easier, but it probably isn't simpler in the long run. Concreted posted rot faster than driven ones because the water enters the hols and just stays there forever. At least drive the posts.

Make x-braces using single- strand high tensile wire and crank-up tensioners.

We used to use 8 wires, but now we only use 4 unless you have sheep. Then use 8. Horses and cows only really need 4, and 1 wire should be hot once in a while.

Tension the line wire with a chain-walker or come-along. Line posts go about every 30-40 feet. Total tool investment is about $200 and they will outlast you.

My 2 cents.

GKman
09-14-2010, 05:00 PM
We used to use 8 wires, but now we only use 4 unless you have sheep. Then use 8. Horses and cows only really need 4, and 1 wire should be hot once in a while.
... Line posts go about every 30-40 feet.



Four or five barbed wires with posts @ 12 to 15' here in the middle of the US. Where are you? Cemented wood posts fail quickly here too.

Weston Bye
09-15-2010, 09:31 PM
If wire stretch from temperature swings is a concern, put die springs and washers on your eyebolts on the back side of the post in your drawing.