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taydin
09-15-2010, 05:53 AM
My home shop gets a lot of moisture, especially during the winter. My milling machine and the lathe and any other metal tools started to rust quickly because of high humidity. After doing some research on what to do about it, I bought a dehumidifier and an electric heater. I set the electric heater to 10 degrees celsius and let the dehumidifier run (it has a hyrostat, so it doesn't run continuously). But I saw that the dehumidifier was continuously running and the humidity didn't go down much (it was about 85-90%). It seemed the concrete floor was letting moisture from the ground through. I have covered the ground with moisture blocking mortar and have also tiled the floor.

But now it is summer and I don't know if this will take care of the problem. So I also started to look for rust prevention products. Then I have got a sample of a corrosion prevention product. It wasn't in the original package, but there was a label saying something like tutela 1. It is a brown colored oil and is applied with a brush. It is a product of a German company called Molyduval ( http://www.molyduval.org/data/de/cat/tutela.htm ) I have applied it to all my tools, to my milling machine and my lathe. I am quite impressed by the performance. 1 month has passed and the film is still on the surfaces.

I want to buy more of this product, but looking at the company website, I see there are a lot of products in the tutela 1 series. Which one would be best for my application, which is basically the conservation of my milling machine, my lathe, my calipers, micrometers, squares, straight edges and anything else that has the potention to rust? I use the home shop 1-2 times a month and I need to prevent rust while I am not using the tools.

I think tutela 11 looks good, but I am not sure... I know that there are a lot of contributors from Germany here and I would love to hear their experiences as well.

squirrel
09-15-2010, 11:25 AM
I use LPS 3, premier rust inhibitor. That is the best product I have found for use on the machines and parts.

RTPBurnsville
09-15-2010, 01:28 PM
I also use the LPS product with good results.

T.Hoffman
09-15-2010, 01:33 PM
LPS #3 for long-term rust prevention is what I use. works great.

Dr Stan
09-15-2010, 01:50 PM
LPS #3 for long-term rust prevention is what I use. works great.

That is also what I recommend. However are LPS products available in Turkey?

whitis
09-15-2010, 04:17 PM
If you can't keep the moisture out of the shop, you can at least keep it off the machines. You need a small heater on the machine tools themselves. A screw in or magnet heater like an engine block heater (low wattage), a silicone blanket heater, or a big power resistor in the metal bolt down case. It shouldn't require much power, 25 watts may be enough. If you have two heaters, you can wire them in series; for example, two 25W heaters could be wired for 25W (series), 50W (one only), or 100W (parrallel). If you plug a 220V heater into 110V, you will get 1/4 the heat which may give you some additional choices. Except you are in a 220V country. A diode in series with the heater will give half the power. A lamp dimmer or router speed control can also adjust the power. You don't want an ordinary thermostat because you do not want constant temperature, you want a constant temperature difference which constant power will approximate. You will find some threads on this here and at PM.

The idea is to heat the machine a degree or two above air temperature which will prevent condensation.

For those in 110V countries: Here is a cheap 200W magnet engine block heater.
http://www.amazon.com/Kats-1153-Handi-Heat-Magnetic-Heater/dp/B000BOABS6

Silicone blanket heaters:
http://www.omega.com/pptst/SRMU_HEATER.html

Remember you want to heat the machine itself not point a heater at it (which means the air striking the machine will be hotter than the machine).

Effective energy consumption should be near zero in the winter because your main heaters will need to run less.

If you are using non-vented combustion heat, the water byproduct of combustion may be responsible for a lot of your moisture.

LPS-3 is great stuff for long term storage but rather gunky on moving parts being operated.

A comparison of some rust inhibitors:
http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11169
The winner was plain old vasoline. Not generally suitable for operating machines but worth keeping in mind if you need to store a machine outside.

taydin
09-15-2010, 05:04 PM
That is also what I recommend. However are LPS products available in Turkey?

Unfortunately not. I could buy it direct from the US vendor, but it might be held in customs :(

As far as I can see, LPS 3 and the Tutela 1 series are both wax based rust inhibitors. Is LPS 3 only available in spray form?

Bgmnn1
09-15-2010, 05:09 PM
You can buy it in liquid form, by the gallon.

Mike

taydin
09-15-2010, 05:16 PM
If you are using non-vented combustion heat, the water byproduct of combustion may be responsible for a lot of your moisture.

I used a 3000W resistance heater (no fan) with a thermostat. I adjusted the thermostat to about 10 degrees celsius. I tried 15 degrees, but the next day I found the shop at close to 30 degrees :eek: I guess the thermostat gets stuck after a certain settings, so I can't go higher than around 10...

taydin
09-15-2010, 05:29 PM
If you can't keep the moisture out of the shop, you can at least keep it off the machines. You need a small heater on the machine tools themselves. A screw in or magnet heater like an engine block heater (low wattage), a silicone blanket heater, or a big power resistor in the metal bolt down case. It shouldn't require much power, 25 watts may be enough. If you have two heaters, you can wire them in series; for example, two 25W heaters could be wired for 25W (series), 50W (one only), or 100W (parrallel). If you plug a 220V heater into 110V, you will get 1/4 the heat which may give you some additional choices. Except you are in a 220V country. A diode in series with the heater will give half the power. A lamp dimmer or router speed control can also adjust the power. You don't want an ordinary thermostat because you do not want constant temperature, you want a constant temperature difference which constant power will approximate. You will find some threads on this here and at PM.

The idea is to heat the machine a degree or two above air temperature which will prevent condensation.

These small heaters would only heat a certain section of the machines, though. There will be parts of the machine that remain cold, because there is a large universal mill and a 16x40 lathe...

But using a large heated blanket (intended for use by humans in a bedroom) to cover the table of the mill and the ways of the lathe makes quite sense!

But if the Tutela 1 fluid works as intended, that would be the best... It is easy to apply, it doesn't harden and get sticky and it doesn't have to be cleaned before operating the machine.

jack3140
09-15-2010, 06:53 PM
[QUOTE=taydin]My home shop gets a lot of moisture, especially during the winter. My milling machine and the lathe and any other metal tools started to rust quickly because of high humidity. After doing some research on what to do about it, I bought a dehumidifier and an electric heater. I set the electric heater to 10 degrees celsius and let the dehumidifier run (it has a hyrostat, so it doesn't run continuously). But I saw that the dehumidifier was continuously running and the humidity didn't go down much (it was about 85-90%). It seemed the concrete floor was letting moisture from the ground through. I have covered the ground with moisture blocking mortar and have also tiled the floor.

But now it is summer and I don't know if this will take care of the problem. So I also started to look for rust prevention products. Then I have got a sample of a corrosion prevention product. It wasn't in the original package, but there was a label saying something like tutela 1. It is a brown colored oil and is applied with a brush. It is a product of a German company called Molyduval ( http://www.molyduval.org/data/de/cat/tutela.htm ) I have applied it to all my tools, to my milling machine and my lathe. I am quite impressed by the performance. 1 month has passed and the film is still on the surfaces.

I want to buy more of this product, but looking at the company website, I see there are a lot of products in the tutela 1 series. Which one would be best for my application, which is basically the conservation of my milling machine, my lathe, my calipers, micrometers, squares, straight edges and anything else that has the potention to rust? I use the home shop 1-2 times a month and I need to prevent rust while I am not using the tools.

I think tutela 11 looks good, but I am not sure... I know that there are a lot of contributors from Germany here and I would love to hear their experiences as well.[/QUOTEhi have you tried ventilatiobn ? that usually solves humidity problems and it is cheap good luck jack

kc5ezc
09-15-2010, 07:01 PM
I've tried LPS3 aerosol several times and the can jams before I can use even half of it. Now to find it in gallons.
Also, indications are that 'Fluid Film' is used by John Deere for shipping their products overseas. I have not personally tried fluid film, but LPS 3 works fine for me.

alanganes
09-15-2010, 07:50 PM
Not to hijack, as taydin has said he can't easily get LPS products there, but for tose in the US, I have also gotten LPS 3 in a pump-squirt type bottle, the sort spray cleaners come in.

taydin
09-16-2010, 03:41 AM
I have bought a bottle of Tuteta spray. I sprayed all of the little tools and drills. And at the same time, the spray flew everywhere else. The bottle was empty before I had a chance to finish the milling machine :mad: I think I will go with Tutela 1 fluid that can be applied with a brush...

taydin
09-16-2010, 07:12 AM
have you tried ventilatiobn ? that usually solves humidity problems and it is cheap good luck jack


Do you mean circulating the air inside of the building, or bringing in air from the outside?

jack3140
09-16-2010, 05:21 PM
have enough natural air circulation to let the air in the building be changed slowly but constantly it let the moisture in the building escape and keeps your machinery dry i store my tools in a barn that is anything but airtight and i never have a rust problem regardless of the weather or season