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SDL
09-21-2010, 03:13 PM
You guys will love these :D:D

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11301831

Steve Larner

EddyCurr
09-21-2010, 03:45 PM
Gordon Murray discusses the T.25 & T.27


Low-cost car from F1 designer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9ZdM8qhNcM)

T27 Most Efficient Electric Car from F1 Designer Gordon Murray (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzWme7Go9KU)

.

EddyCurr
09-21-2010, 03:48 PM
An earlier entry on Mr Murray's CV:


Fifth Gear: Mclaren F1 and Ferrari Enzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSA3vnrFHU0)

.

Black_Moons
09-21-2010, 04:29 PM
I don't think the current method of making cars could be sustainable. Its just too crazy carrying around a single 200lb person (or two) in a 2000~6000lbs of steel and iron car, Every year a new totaly incompatable model released by everyone requireing massive redesigns/retooling/etc.

So really exciting to see someone trying SOMETHING new. Though the way he says it can be so easily redesigned might not exactly be helpful in the whole part compatability catagory.. But then, maybe the reason it can be easily redesigned is he has allready picked packages of generic common parts that can be selected depending on requirements, Insted of designing totaly new parts when existing (tested for 10+ years on the road, known to proform well) parts would do just as well if you thought about designing with them.

Conform your design to the parts, Not your parts to the design.

beanbag
09-21-2010, 04:59 PM
You don't understand. Americans don't like these dinky little euro cars. (With the exception of yuppie leftist environazis) :)

ADGO_Racing
09-21-2010, 05:01 PM
They will have to pry the steering wheel of my pickup and/or SUV from my cold dead fingers! It is all I have ever had, and all I will ever have.:p

mike os
09-21-2010, 05:08 PM
I can get every one of you out of your big cars tomorrow morning..... gas at$15 a gal and a $5k a 1000mile tax :D :D everything unter 1tonne or 1500cc exempt.:eek:

aboard_epsilon
09-21-2010, 05:12 PM
You don't understand. Americans don't like these dinky little euro cars. (With the exception of yuppie leftist environazis) :)

nor would i, with so many hulking SUVS on the road ,...v8 pick-ups being driven by everyone.

all the best.markj

rohart
09-21-2010, 05:14 PM
I like the idea that making cars smaller eases congestion.

As far as I can see, smaller cars just allows more cars to jam up the same stretch of highway than before, with the result that when the jam eases up front, then more cars need to have a safe gap in front of them than before, and it takes longer for the guys at the back to get going.

People fill roads till they're full. For full, read unbearable to drive on. That's why it's commuters in the jams. For them, a jam is better than what they've been doing all day. For people who like a bit of freedom, it really is unbearable.

If you want to cut jams and congestion, the first thing you have to do is change work patterns dramatically. To my mind, there's no alternative to changing the nine-to-five habit of schools and offices. I know some progress has been made, but I'd be surprised if more than twenty percent of office workers were on flexi-time, and even then, standard flexi-time isn't really flexible enough to hit the mark.

Once you get real flexible hours going, you might start to make an impact on what now seems to be the lunchtime rush hour.

As for smaller cars meaning less energy use, how about lower more air-efficient cars, and a tax on SUVs and other small charabancs ?

kf2qd
09-21-2010, 05:15 PM
I can get every one of you out of your big cars tomorrow morning..... gas at$15 a gal and a $5k a 1000mile tax :D :D everything unter 1tonne or 1500cc exempt.:eek:

With the obligatory exemption for the politicians and their special funding buddies... And only the middle class will have to pay.

Tony Ennis
09-21-2010, 05:38 PM
Little cars are a great idea until you get hit by a delivery truck. Then you're just dead. Anyway, by the time these little cars meet US safety and emission standards they'll be the size of a '64 Impala and weigh 3 tons.

Black_Moons
09-21-2010, 05:57 PM
Little cars let you steer outta the way of the delivery truck, or stop short of it, avoiding injury.

Id rather avoid injury then have broken legs in an SUV and have deductables to pay!

Ries
09-21-2010, 06:08 PM
There is a time and a place for little cars, and a time and a place for big cars.

Personally, I prefer small cars- and I have yet to be hit by a delivery truck. I dont want to be hit by a delivery truck while I am driving my F150, though, either. My ideal mix is a full sized pickup, and a tiny 2 seater sports car.

For single people, who live in cities, a small car makes a lot of sense. I have friends in Italy who used to own a Fiat 600 that they let me drive, and it was a total hoot to drive around in crowded Italian cities- you could practically park it at right angles to the curb.

They sell plenty of Smart Cars, Miatas, Mini-Coopers, Priuses, Honda Fits, and other tiny cars in my area, and not to yuppies, either.

Yuppies, by definition, are Professionals- thats the "P" in yuppie- and in my experience, they like BMW's quite a bit, big 4 door 5 series machines, C class Mercedes, and Lexus SUV's.

I find that a lot of older people in the rural area where I live drive very small cars- they are cheap, easy to park, and get good gas mileage. Pretty much every Prius I see going by has a gray head at the wheel.

ADGO_Racing
09-21-2010, 06:16 PM
I can get every one of you out of your big cars tomorrow morning..... gas at$15 a gal and a $5k a 1000mile tax :D :D everything unter 1tonne or 1500cc exempt.:eek:

Big deal, that is why I am in business. Taxes go up the customer pays them for me. I will still only have trucks and SUV's.

And a fleet of them will be hauling race cars to all the tracks every weekend. Because they will find the money to do it.

Michael Moore
09-21-2010, 06:18 PM
I'd love to have a Smartcar for here in San Francisco. Parking sucks almost everywhere. We usually only drive somewhere once or twice a week and that is to go out to dinner or grocery shopping. If I need to bring home bigger stuff I'll take my GMC Safari van (which only gets used for hauling duty).

You can't do anything about "what if XXX hits you" beyond either staying in at home or driving around in an Abrams tank. :) There are too many people who seem to have taken the idea of "I need to outweigh everything on the road" as being the main criterion for purchasing a vehicle. They can't legally park a lot of those giant SUVs many places here in town because they are just too long to fit in an urban environment.

Yurp has all kinds of cool little cars, but even a nw Fiat Cinguecento isn't that short at 139" overall. It isn't bad, that's the same length as a 1973 Civic, but a Smart is about 102. A 73 Mini was 120" and I actually did a little looking for one a couple years ago until I came to my senses and admitted my garage was too full of tools to ever give me room to work on a project car. :)

Here's a link to Murray's "Istream" page: http://www.gordonmurraydesign.com/istream.php
cheers,
Michael

Mad Scientist
09-21-2010, 06:31 PM
Interest idea, but it has already been proposed. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAqPMJFaEdY&eurl=http://www.commonsensejunction.com/

mike os
09-21-2010, 06:33 PM
dont even think a hummer will survive a 60mph smash with a rig....... not that you want to find out:p .... or do we up the anti .... nothing on the road will take a hit from a freight train......& you just might be on that crossing at teh wrong time:rolleyes: not really any different ot the situation in europe with rigs... 60tons doing high speed will ruin your whole week

there are always "exceptions" and "special interest groups".... which is why the world is as screwed up as it is...the presidents new motor... a strech toyota prius:D

some will pay the increase for a while...... when do you want to stop? $50k a year just to own anything over 2000cc? $50 a gal?..... (genuine commercial use exempt of course) its coming to you all anyway if the enviroidiots get any more power.:eek:


small cars do nothing for congestion, it's numbers not size that causes the problems, and the mentality of people behnd the wheel, who have to go in their car rather than share or take the bus that stops at the bottom of their street.

Tony Ennis
09-21-2010, 07:03 PM
Little cars let you steer outta the way of the delivery truck, or stop short of it, avoiding injury.

I've been in two wrecks. Each time it happened before I knew it.


dont even think a hummer will survive a 60mph smash with a rig

Maybe, but the teeny car won't survive a crash with the Hummer.

The simple fact is, with our roads having vehicles of extremely different masses, being in a small car is more dangerous than being in a larger car. On the bright side, the teeny cars will still be able to intimidate the motor cyclists... :D

Now, if they allowed small cars in a special lane (or required non-small cars to stay in the right lane yadda) then much of the danger would be mitigated.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of being able to choose a small car. At some point, however, a go-cart may not be a good idea.

Too_Many_Tools
09-21-2010, 07:29 PM
Big deal, that is why I am in business. Taxes go up the customer pays them for me. I will still only have trucks and SUV's.

And a fleet of them will be hauling race cars to all the tracks every weekend. Because they will find the money to do it.

Actually they won't.

NASCAR was hit hard when gas prices were high...their fan base drives the most miles to an event of any sport.

What this country needs is $10/gal gas...then we will get serious about curing our addiction to foreign oil.

And a small car can be engineered to just as safe as a large car...they just have to do it.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
09-21-2010, 07:33 PM
I've been in two wrecks. Each time it happened before I knew it.



Maybe, but the teeny car won't survive a crash with the Hummer.

The simple fact is, with our roads having vehicles of extremely different masses, being in a small car is more dangerous than being in a larger car. On the bright side, the teeny cars will still be able to intimidate the motor cyclists... :D

Now, if they allowed small cars in a special lane (or required non-small cars to stay in the right lane yadda) then much of the danger would be mitigated.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of being able to choose a small car. At some point, however, a go-cart may not be a good idea.

A small car can be engineered to be as safe if not safer than a larger vehicle.

They just have to do it.

Car safety was a non issue until consumers started voting with their dollars..then it became a primary factor for companies to design to.

TMT

TMT

JCHannum
09-21-2010, 08:00 PM
Interest idea, but it has already been proposed. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAqPMJFaEdY&eurl=http://www.commonsensejunction.com/

I see Brent Myers driving around the NAMES show in Toledo in a couple of scenes in that video.

Arcane
09-21-2010, 08:01 PM
Little cars let you steer outta the way of the delivery truck, or stop short of it, avoiding injury.

Not all the time....:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJic8Z4Tx9Q&feature=related

Mad Scientist
09-21-2010, 10:00 PM
With 5000 lbís an 400 cu.in. engine fuel injected, with roller cam and lifters and header exhaust system you donít swerve for small cars you just treat them as minor speed bumps in the road. :D
Although you might want to toss one in the trunk to have something to drive around inside the local mall. :):)

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/mscientist/shows/milk%20pan%202010/mp3.jpg

ADGO_Racing
09-21-2010, 10:50 PM
Actually they won't.

NASCAR was hit hard when gas prices were high...their fan base drives the most miles to an event of any sport.

TMT

Actually, you are wrong. NASCAR could care less if there is ANYONE in the stands. Their money is made on the TV deal. 76M viewers at home. 200,000 in the stands is nothing.

As for gas prices for the cars....Get real, EVERY pit stop they put $2,500.00 of tires on the car. If Sunoco didn't give the fuel to the teams, five or six stops at 20 gallons of $12.00 -15.00 gas each, at that time is a drop in the bucket. Just like the $8.50/gallon we pay at the track each week now.

Then again, it is a business, the advertisers on the side of the car and hauler, are paying the bills. So once again, under the tax it out of existence scenario, I would still have a truck!

wierdscience
09-21-2010, 11:24 PM
You guys will love these :D:D

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11301831

Steve Larner

He's gone off his rocker,Ez-go has him beat in both styling and performance:p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/wierdscience/Freedom_Studio_Red_golf_cart.jpg

ADGO_Racing
09-21-2010, 11:32 PM
Is that on the Congressional Motors "APPROVED" list???:D

EddyCurr
09-22-2010, 12:01 AM
And a fleet of them will be hauling race cars to all the tracks
every weekend. Because they will find the money to do it.Weren't around in the mid-70's, were you?

.

bobw53
09-22-2010, 02:03 AM
Actually, you are wrong. NASCAR could care less if there is ANYONE in the stands. Their money is made on the TV deal. 76M viewers at home. 200,000 in the stands is nothing.

Check your #'s, there may be a "claimed" 75 million fans, but most races are pulling in 4-8 million viewers(3.6 million this last weekend). 17 million this year for the Daytona 500. and dropping yearly.

I want STOCK cars that I can identify.

TMT

NASCAR was hit hard when gas prices were high...their fan base drives the most miles to an event of any sport.


Gas may have had something to do with it, but I stopped going because it just wasn't any fun anymore. Limiting the beers I can bring into the stands (sodas also). Cops in the stands telling me to sit down and put my shirt on. "families" showing up with crying annoying little kids. Hotel prices going through the roof, less on track time.

Gas prices do not explain why people are watching less on TV where they don't have to pay to go anywhere and its FREE. Its the product, its pretty crummy. Same little whiny twerps whining about he was RACED too hard in a race. They are making millions a year, they have no reason to actually race. Drive around in circles and mention the sponsors and then whine about racing too hard.

Too_Many_Tools
09-22-2010, 02:20 AM
Actually, you are wrong. NASCAR could care less if there is ANYONE in the stands. Their money is made on the TV deal. 76M viewers at home. 200,000 in the stands is nothing.

As for gas prices for the cars....Get real, EVERY pit stop they put $2,500.00 of tires on the car. If Sunoco didn't give the fuel to the teams, five or six stops at 20 gallons of $12.00 -15.00 gas each, at that time is a drop in the bucket. Just like the $8.50/gallon we pay at the track each week now.

Then again, it is a business, the advertisers on the side of the car and hauler, are paying the bills. So once again, under the tax it out of existence scenario, I would still have a truck!

Want to try to explain why NASCAR is having financial problems then?

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/nov2009/bw20091118_956884.htm

The gas prices I was talking about was for the fans getting to the track...and it does matter to attendance numbers.

TMT

dp
09-22-2010, 02:34 AM
I bought one of these in 1965 for $395. It holds four people, has a two cylinder engine, and gets pretty decent mileage. No way I'd drive one today but at the time I was commuting from Long Beach, CA to Whittier, working two jobs and going to school. Then, it was practical.

http://cumberlandpost.blogspot.com/2010/06/1959-fiat-bianchina-transformabile-my.html

SDL
09-22-2010, 04:44 AM
What this country needs is $10/gal gas...then we will get serious about curing our addiction to foreign oil.

TMT

Most likely to happen when a lot of countries refuse to sell Oil to the US.

Could be a rapid conversion to high MPG cars.

Steve Larner

Lew Hartswick
09-22-2010, 10:18 AM
Most likely to happen when a lot of countries refuse to sell Oil to the US.

Could be a rapid conversion to high MPG cars.

Steve Larner
Won't happen untill the jerks at the NTSB or who ever is responsible
for all the half a$$ed "safety" requiremnts for every thing on the
public roads. :-(
...lew...

Rustybolt
09-22-2010, 10:33 AM
Has it been on "Top Gear" yet?

I'm n0t looking at anything until the 'boys' have had a go at it.

Too_Many_Tools
09-22-2010, 01:17 PM
Most likely to happen when a lot of countries refuse to sell Oil to the US.

Could be a rapid conversion to high MPG cars.

Steve Larner


I expect a sudden "correction".

As we have seen a couple of years ago with SUVs when gas edged higher, vehicles with low MPG can't be given away when it happens.

The refusal could easily be wanting to be paid in something other than the American dollar...which we have also seen a push for.

It is just a matter of time...

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
09-22-2010, 01:56 PM
Won't happen untill the jerks at the NTSB or who ever is responsible
for all the half a$$ed "safety" requiremnts for every thing on the
public roads. :-(
...lew...


You apparently have not had a family member severely injured or killed in a car accident.

Your opinion will change if it happens in the future...those half a$$ed "safety" requirements are there for a very good reason.

The public has shown by voting with its wallet that safety is a primary concern for them.

Would you care to tell us what safety requirement(s) you consider to be unnecessary?

TMT