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Alistair Hosie
12-02-2003, 02:39 PM
Watch out there is a scam going on in the internet. I tried to sell a spot welder a few weeks ago on ebay it did not sell. I got an e-mail from a guy asking about it then he said send pics details etc which I did. He then explained he had an international company and needed one for a company in Holland. Then he wrote asking for an address to send the money which I sent but only gave my mobile phone number not my house number as I was suspicious. Then I found out from a guy in a wood chat forum I am a member of he got the same crap from a guy posing to buy his saw. Seems the scam is they ask you to accept a cheque which is owed to him from another party for a much higher sum then ask you to send them back the difference. I waited and sure enough today he wrote back asking me to accept a cheque from a customer of his for three thousand pounds and refund him the difference and he would then collect my spot welder beware. I phoned the police here below is the emails I had from him so far the police are coming tomorrow to ask me about it watch out guys Alistair

hello hostie,
i saw your advert and i will like to buy your SIP COLUM SPOT WELDER AS NEW INDUSTRIAL MODEL .................................................. ................
with certified cashier cheque so if you have the pics you can scan it for me and how is the present condition now,so kindly get back to me so i can arrange for the payment.
thanks
kun.


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hello AHos5,


thanks so much for your prompt mail,am a business man that deal with used engine&machine i have a customer that in need of the industrial model sport welder, that is why i contact you on mail moreover the sport welder is going to holland,forget about the shipping charge i have a good frieght forward agent that deal with my goods so imediately you receive the payment they we come for the pick up of the sport welder.
so kindly give the name that we been on the check and your physical home adress and your phone number .
so i can instruct my client that howing some money to issue the check quickly .
thanks
kun.

hello Alistair, I Would accept your last offer of 1250 pounds which is okay
by me,But I hope i can trust you.As for the payment my client who is in the
U.K is oweing me 3000 pounds and I will Instruct him to send you a Cheque/Cashier's Cheque of 3000 pounds to you and then you will take out your 1250 pounds for the INDUSTRIAL MODEL ,and of which you must send the remaining balance of 1750 pounds to my Frieght Forwarder that will come for the pick-up of the INDUSTRIAL MODEL from your place or depending which is more suitable,as soon as you have
Transfered the remaining balance to them they will come for the pick up. if
this is okay with you pls reply me

For futher information about contacting the freight forward agent kindly reach

them on their contact e-mail address which is : shippingagent_007@yahoo.com

Evan
12-02-2003, 02:55 PM
Alistair,

You are right, it is a scam. The check is a forgery but that will not be discovered until it reachs the bank it was supposedly drawn on.

L Webb
12-02-2003, 04:49 PM
Those Nigerians just love to use Holland as the financial center for all their scams.

This one has been going on for years.

Good catch Alistair.

Les

pgmrdan
12-02-2003, 05:30 PM
.

[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 03-08-2004).]

ibewgypsie
12-02-2003, 06:32 PM
I like the payment by paypal, then "stop payment on the credit card" you paid with scam much better. Not hit me yet. Hit a friend for about 1200 in California thou. Now you see a whole lot of "NO paypal by credit card" listings.

David..

John Stevenson
12-02-2003, 06:44 PM
Alistair, have you noticed in the emails he's spelt his name wrong.
He's missed the 'T' from the end.

CCWKen
12-02-2003, 10:34 PM
Well, after being dinged for a few bucks here and there on unreceived (unshipped?) ebay items, I've gone to pay by CC on everything. No Paypal, No Purchase. And, As soon as I sell an item, the Paypal funds go to my bank. I don't keep a Pp balance any longer.

Paypal won't do a thing unless you fork over $25 for them to investigate it. Sure, I'll pay $25 to get my $5 back... Right.

"Buyer Protection" and "Seller Protection" is just a way for ebay to market their cash cow. They don't mean squat in real life.

Paul Alciatore
12-03-2003, 02:15 AM
I always check the seller's or buyer's feedback rating. I look for the length of his/her time on E-Bay and for any negative comments. This is a great system - even better than many other forms of purchase as you can read the comments of dozens, enen hundreds of past customers.

These guys get around that wonderful protection by avoiding the auction and contacting people directly. E-bay has a very wise policy against this and it really should be followed. It really is for your protection as well as to ensure the collection of their fees. As far as I'm concerned, they do earn their fees. PayPal is also a good route for the payment.

Buyer and Seller BEWARE!

Paul A.

IOWOLF
12-03-2003, 08:23 AM
Speaking of nigerians,I was sitting in the unemployment office the other day, and there were 3 trying get u/i, there was a fourth for interperating, and several kids.

NOW am I wrong thinking maybe you should understand american/english before you ask us americans to feed and clothe you?

wierdscience
12-03-2003, 01:43 PM
Not just internet scams,I won't accept a third party check period,reason being is that here in my state if you accept one for payment and the check bounces when you cash it then you along with the people who wrote the check can be charged with check kiting which can add up to face value of the check plus collection expenses,I know a girl who took a third party check for $55.00,it bounced and after the county collected and assesd fees it cost her nearly $600.00!They did eventualy catch the kitier,but she then had to sue them to retrieve her money,well they didn't have any so she was out.

CCWKen
12-03-2003, 10:52 PM
Paul, checking feedback works some of the time; However, posting feedback is not required of either party (buyer/seller). If I post a negative for the seller, he will surely post a negative for me. So I don't post. I don't want my counts tarnished by a seller's incompetence or out-and-out theft. I wonder how many others do the same. Hundreds? Thousands?

What good is feedback if it's not required or held hostage for your "positive" response? Most sellers won't post a feedback for the buyer until the buyer posts his feedback. What good is feedback if it only represents 10% of the seller's dealings? Or coersed?

I've been waiting since Nov. 22 for Spot Welding Tips. (Weigh about 8ozs.) The seller says they were mailed. By law (USC), he still owes me tips. His email answer has the sound that he completed his obligation. If he did send them, why didn't he post feedback? I paid within minutes of auction close.

Now I have to wait 30 days just to make sure. (Seller has 30 days to ship) Then what? File a complaint for $8? Post a negative feedback just to have the seller post one too? What good is feedback?

His theft, and others, will just continue.

Thrud
12-04-2003, 01:45 AM
Alistair
I only pay by international money order drawn on a bank in the country I am send it to and instruct the person I am sending it to to wait for it before sending any merchandise. Even Postal money order can be faked these days and the Canadian Post Office encourages you to all a toll free number to verify the money order and amount.

When I worked in retail we took welfare cheques, welfare vouchers, money orders, money wires. I tok a money order form a person, took all their id properly, and checked the mooney order before accepting it. 9 months later a CSIS officer showed up at the store to talk to me about the counterfeit money order - the person had skillfully changed a $1.28 money order into a $181.28 - it was pretty cool actually. They did catch the perp a few years later.

[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 12-04-2003).]

IOWOLF
12-04-2003, 08:54 AM
As a seller I don't post f/b till I get f/b,
as a buyer i post when I know it is what I asked for, and works.I have found this to work well. I have 2 negitive feed back reports against me, one from a guy who literally sold me junk, and the other didn't know how to answer e-mails actually neither one did.
I am not a big seller, or buyer,but i dont cheat people either.

CCWKen
12-05-2003, 01:11 AM
That's my point Wolf. You're holding the feedback hostage. If a buyer gets junk or misrepresented merchandise, he's not likely to post and let everyone else know. If he does, the seller will retaliate with a negative feedback claiming "poor comunication" or some idiot excuse. There's too many people like Paul that look solely at counts and not what's written in the comments or responses.

When I sell, I post feedback upon recept of payment and/or shippment. My parts done and I trust my descriptions. When I buy, I post upon recept of the merchandise. The only way feedback will work is to make it manditory.




[This message has been edited by CCWKen (edited 12-05-2003).]

CCWKen
12-05-2003, 01:24 AM
I forgot to mention but I did receive the Welding Tips today. Seems the problem is in the USPS delivery area. It took 10 days via 1st Class mail to get here. I didn't blame the seller for that and I sent him an email and left positive feedback. The items were perfect and as described.

Ed ke6bnl
12-05-2003, 05:13 AM
you guys saved me I just got my cashiers check for $5000 for my Ham radio equipment and was told to send the diffeance to the shipper. I called the police and they were not interested. Thanks Again Ed ke6bnl

------------------
Ed ke6bnl
Agua Dulce, Ca.
70 mi. S.E. of Los Angeles

ibewgypsie
12-06-2003, 11:24 PM
Whoo Hoo.. My long lost relative died in Nigeria, left me 12M so the email says..

All I have to do is send my bank information to transfer the money..

Geeze, they are honest right? They won't do anything dishonest or mean? RIGHT?

David..

(the world is too large and complicated.) Scams and bull abounds, worldwide.



[This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 12-06-2003).]

docsteve66
12-07-2003, 02:23 PM
There shold be SOME way of making money off these guys. Maybe set up a bankaccount with no (maybe 5 dollars ) in the account. Trick is how do you sucker them into doing something that can be used to squeeze their gonads?

In all my years, o far I have recieved only one letter of that sort.

Alistair Hosie
12-07-2003, 04:15 PM
Actually to explain this clearly I did advertise this for sale on ebay but it did not sell, so it has nothing to do with ebay. About three weeks later after the ebay sale ended the guy wrote to me asking if I still had it for sale. I think this should be clear it was not anything to do with ebay. so no comeback from them if it hadn't worked. I did not write back but phoned the police they phoned back and said as a fraud hadn't actually taken place there was nothing they could do. Typical, I always thought conspiracy to commit fraud was a crime. I got a letter from someone else when I stopped writing to this guy who asked if I still had it for sale when I did not get back to the original guy I think he has friends. So I wrote back to the new guy asking him who he was have heard nothing since. Alistair

debequem
12-07-2003, 04:20 PM
Docsteve66,

Would you like me to forward all the ones I got to you? :-)

Marv

Alistair Hosie
12-07-2003, 04:27 PM
Steve I am getting up to five a day at the moment it is quite exhausting and a mennece to deal with Alistair

ibewgypsie
12-07-2003, 08:56 PM
I have my last name in my ebay username.

I think that is where they hit.

Having a shot of WILD TURKEY and coke a cola...
Ain't life grand?

David..

docsteve66
12-08-2003, 12:58 AM
Marv: please Mail them to me. each in a separate box, with a shot of Wild Turkey in each box , just as proof that you are sincere. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

IBEW: any one messes up the turkey with cokes should be forced to drink ONLY Old Overholt (AKS Old overshoes) for six months. Second offense barred from the turkey evermore.

Thats my .02
Peace
Steve

BillH
12-08-2003, 01:23 AM
When I sell something over the net, I am very clear, US postal money orders only.

Evan
12-08-2003, 02:44 AM
Glad to be of assistance Ed.

The Internet is just a reflection of society. It has bad and good, in the same proportions.

ibewgypsie
12-08-2003, 06:42 AM
Doc,

When I don't have to get up in early am, I chase with beer. Makes a short drinking spell.

When I chase with Water I feel better, all that coke messes you up.

Ain't nothing as good as the Georgia Shine I used to get, you'd forget you was drinking and go downtown. When you reflect back on that, it is a wonder ya are alive.

David.

Evan
12-08-2003, 01:09 PM
Allistair,

Conspiracy to break any law is a crime. However, it takes at least two people to make a conspiracy. A single person can only contemplate breaking the law and that is not illegal.

docsteve66
12-08-2003, 04:10 PM
'shine from several states is fine. Virgina gets over looked when we brag about the fine shine we sipped. GOOD shine is as good as the best bottled in bond, bad shine is badder than the baddest bottled in bond.

Nothing beats a big hot toddy after a cold day of working, hunting or fishing. Adam's ale is best chaser for ruckus juice. (Adam was one of those guys in the good book).

Best stories are told when under the watchful benevolent eye and good influence of Old Granddad
All the above in one mans opinion, based on experience and observation.

Alistair Hosie
12-08-2003, 07:18 PM
Evan
Allistair,
Conspiracy to break any law is a crime. However, it takes at least two people to make a conspiracy. A single person can only contemplate breaking the law and that is not illegal.

The thing is he is not working alone so I suppose there are more than one of them. If a conspiracy to commit a crime is not illegal then a lot of people are/have been sentenced for nothing in the past look at Guantanamo bay at the moment. As I understand it when a party or an individual can successfully have been proven to have conspired seriously to commit a crime then that is in itself punishable under law. I E when a person either alone or otherwise deceives, simply because that deception was not successful is not a symbol of innocence the fact they had tried to commit a crime would have been enough. Even so if for example I had been willing with the aid of the police or at least their knowledge, to continue with this guy in the transaction he was undertaking then his conspiracy would have been disclosed. Alistair

Evan
12-08-2003, 07:58 PM
Alistair,

There simply cannot be a conspiracy of one. The word "conspire" means to act with others in forming some plan of action.

Definition according to Webster: conspiracy - a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act

A single person may contemplate, not conspire. As long as no action is taken by a single person to break the law then no law has been broken. We do not (yet) have thought police. Even a highly detailed and documented plan to rob a bank is not illegal for a single person to develop as long as he doesn't rob the bank.

Alistair Hosie
12-08-2003, 09:05 PM
But surely Evan this person went beyond the simple act of contemplation. He in fact as I see it put his thoughts into actions by trying to carry out an illegal act. Simply because he was not successful in my case does not mean he is innocent it could be shown if he is found guilty of deceit in other circumstances, especially if the methods he used were totally similar to my own,that he did indeed intend to carry out this act of deceit between himself and myself even though as a result of my prudence it was not allowed to proceed to fruition. Alistair

Alistair Hosie
12-08-2003, 09:06 PM
In any case Evan I am sure he was not alone in his contenplation and indeed conspired with others to deceive .Alistair

Evan
12-08-2003, 09:08 PM
Alistair,

If one takes action to commit a crime then that is most certainly illegal whether or not they succeed.

CCWKen
12-08-2003, 09:45 PM
Many states have gotten around having to prove a conspiracy by simply calling the offense "Criminal Attempt".

This is how Texas does it:
15.01. Criminal Attempt

(a) A person commits an offense if, with specific intent to commit an offense, he does an act amounting to more than mere preparation that tends but fails to effect the commission of the offense intended.

(b) If a person attempts an offense that may be aggravated, his conduct constitutes an attempt to commit the aggravated offense if an element that aggravates the offense accompanies the attempt.

(c) It is no defense to prosecution for criminal attempt that the offense attempted was actually committed.



[This message has been edited by CCWKen (edited 12-08-2003).]

Evan
12-09-2003, 02:13 AM
Ack!

Ken,

Conspiracy is not what they are trying to get around. Conspiracy take two or more people to commit. You can't conspire with yourself. (leaving out people with multiple personality disorder)

The law you have described still requires a person to take action. I have no idea why they made that law since existing laws deal with attempted action just fine, no matter how poorly the attempt succeeds. As you said, preparation is not illegal until you actually go to the bank and walk in to it with the note in your pocket, hopefully not written on your deposit slip.

Alistair Hosie
12-09-2003, 02:18 PM
Evan I still get the impression you feel this guy is acting alone. I do not and am sure he is part of a well rehearsed team. Incidently the point I was also trying to make was he did set out to commit the deceit so it was an active crime on his part even though he did not pull it off. I think we are both agreed in this case he or they were active in a criminal pursuit. Alistair

Evan
12-09-2003, 02:31 PM
Alistair,

I don't know if he is acting alone or not. My point is only that if he is, then he can not be charged with conspiracy to commit an offense. Either way, it seems that he did attempt to commit an offense and for that he may be charged.

Incidentally, in Canada anyone may lay a charge against another person or persons. Many people have the false impression that only the police lay charges and even that is incorrect. The police never lay charges, the Crown Prosecutor does under recommendation from the police. I have charged several people over the years with driving offenses and it sure does suprise people when they find that may be done. You only must be willing to write a statement of charges and be willing to testify in court if necessary. Never had to go to court yet, I only charge someone when the offense is extreme and hazardous to all on the road.

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 12-09-2003).]

Alistair Hosie
12-09-2003, 03:54 PM
The crowm prosecuter in Scotland is called a procurater fiscal. He/She looks at the police reports and decides if the offence warrants charges being brought and a court case being pursued. Alistair

Alistair Hosie
12-09-2003, 03:55 PM
The crown prosecuter in Scotland is called a procurater fiscal. He/She looks at the police reports and decides if the offence warrants charges being brought and a court case being pursued. Alistair