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randyjaco
10-24-2010, 02:44 PM
I don't know who this person is, but I would look out for mightypoo0 or 'ericgodfrey@surry.net'. The guy bought a steady rest from me on EBay. He then told me that it got broken in shipment. (Somehow I neglected to get insurance with the Post Office.) He then contacted me and EBay to make a complaint and cancel the sale. He had pictures of a damaged box and one of a similar steady with a tab broken off. I told him I would refund his money if he would return the damaged steady rest. He agreed. EBay has no way to deal with this type of a situation of holding payment until the item is returned. So I foolishly in good faith, returned his money and canceled the sale. Of course, after numerous emails to the SOB, he never returned the part.

Randy

EddyCurr
10-24-2010, 03:09 PM
That is not right. Sorry for your misfortune.

Some bright light needs to get EscrowPalŽ up and running.

.

Bmyers
10-24-2010, 03:18 PM
My favorite was from a woman who bought an item from me and left a glowing positive feed back for me. Only problem is she never paid me ! After waiting for over a month for my money I posted a comment under her feed back to me that she never paid and I posted positive feed back for her stating she was wonderful to deal with if you didn't expect her to pay. She called me every name in the book. She also contacted ebay and said her positive feed back was proof she paid (no pay pal record and that is the only form of payment I accepted ). Ebay sided with her, pulled my feed back to her but left her comments calling me a thief and a liar. That was one of my last eBay sales. 75% of my sales after that went unpaid for, what a pain.

Alistair Hosie
10-24-2010, 03:21 PM
Randy sorry to hear about this .Perhaps your act of kindness, is taken by him as an act of foolishness to exploit.
It's the good people like you and others who get stuck like this sorry Buddy. He's just another rogue you should have asked for the parts to be returned before parting with money and in any case you did not break it , so if he forgot insurance tough,then it's his fault in a way too ..Alistair

JoeLee
10-24-2010, 04:28 PM
These type of deals gone bad are becomming more frequent since ebay no longer allows sellers to leave negative feedback for a buyer.

JL................

sansbury
10-24-2010, 05:03 PM
Some bright light needs to get EscrowPalŽ up and running.

I'm pretty sure eBay would not allow anything competitive with PayPal to last for long, if ever.

I'm working on a project right now that I'm thinking of turning into a kit (an Arduino-based CNC pendant) and the frequency of stories like this makes me really wary of accepting PayPal. I have a CC merchant account in my day job, and while they make you jump through hoops when customers complain, they at least seem to evaluate both sides of the story. PayPal seems to deal with fraud by making merchants swallow all the costs, on top of the fees they charge.

wierdscience
10-24-2010, 05:07 PM
There is a way to handle it,an Ebay auction page is a contract,you simply stipulate your refund terms in the contract.If the buyer doesn't abide by those terms they can go pound sand.If the buyer doesn't like the terms they can buy elsewhere.

lazlo
10-24-2010, 05:13 PM
There is a way to handle it,an Ebay auction page is a contract,you simply stipulate your refund terms in the contract.

You can't do that Darin. Ebay specifically states that you're not allowed to set your own terms in the Ebay auction.

For awhile, some sellers would stipulate "Will refund purchase price only", and Ebay will now NARU you for that.

The Uniform Commercial Code (and therefore, Ebay and Paypal) requires you to return non-conforming goods (not as described in the auction). The UCC also requires the seller to refund the purchase price and the cost of shipping, but not the cost for the buyer to return the item.

wierdscience
10-24-2010, 05:36 PM
You can't do that Darin. Ebay specifically states that you're not allowed to set your own terms in the Ebay auction.

For awhile, some sellers would stipulate "Will refund purchase price only", and Ebay will now NARU you for that.

The Uniform Commercial Code (and therefore, Ebay and Paypal) requires you to return non-conforming goods (not as described in the auction). The UCC also requires the seller to refund the purchase price and the cost of shipping, but not the cost for the buyer to return the item.

You said that the last time and your still wrong.

Also Non-conforing goods means items other than what is discribed in the auction-you shipped the wrong stuff.That does not apply to damaged goods,or claims of damaged goods.

Further from Ebay we have-

Terms and conditions
It's important that you clearly specify the terms and conditions of the sale in your listing, so buyers know what to expect.

What to do
You're required to include the following details in your listing:

Forms of payment you accept

Return policy

Restocking fee, if applicable

Shipping and handling method, costs, and other information

Taxes and any applicable government imposed fees (such as electronic waste disposal fees)

Tell buyers about the terms of the transaction in your listing.

You're required to meet the expectations you've set in your listing.

Now,just why would they ask you to include the details of YOUR return policy if you couldn't?

Edit: another page that makes it even more clear-

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/return-policy.html

Also-

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/shipping-returns.html

Your Old Dog
10-24-2010, 06:01 PM
I bought a $700 ham radio from a guy and he said it was fine with no problems. A friend was visiting so I asked him to run my home movie camera for me. I turned on my older radio connected to my ham antenna and I demonstrated 100 watts of power out. I then opened his shipping box, took out the radio and hooked it up to my antenna and it only showed half power? All of this was done on one continous run of video from my camera. I told him I wanted my money back and he objected. I then filed a paypal complaint and told them of the video I had. They didn't even ask to see the video but only wanted to know that I had it. I offered to send them a copy but they didn't want it. I got my money back. Nowadays if I do any ebay business it's all U.S. Postal Money Orders and US Post Office shipping. Screw with them and it's postal fraud and they do in fact investigate.

wierdscience
10-24-2010, 06:12 PM
Help might be on the way,I like the idea of a buyer reporting hub.

http://announcements.ebay.com/2010/09/enhancements-to-feedback-and-buyer-protection-to-help-sellers/

lazlo
10-24-2010, 06:27 PM
You said that the last time and your still wrong.

What to do if you don't receive an item or it doesn't match the seller's description (http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/item-not-received.html)

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/item-not-received.html


More about refunds

If you're given a refund, you'll usually receive it through the same payment method that you used to pay for the item. If you bought an item with a payment method other than PayPal, we'll ask you to confirm receipt of the refund.

A full refund is one that covers the cost of the item and original shipping. If you've received an item and want a full refund, you'll usually need to send the item back to the seller. Buyers are responsible for paying return shipping unless the buyer and seller have reached a different agreement. In unusual circumstances, eBay may pay return shipping.

It's not theoretical, I've had to resort to filing an Item Not Received claim several times, and Ebay instantly pulls the full amount, including shipping, out of the seller's Paypal account. That's why sellers are required to have a bank account associated with their Paypal account.

randyjaco
10-24-2010, 06:34 PM
Thanks guys for the information and kind words. Over the years I have sold over 100 items on EBay and never had a single problem. My return policy has always been, all sales are final, ask questions before you bid.

I have had a couple sellers that were cheats but never a buyer. I guess that I was lucky. My lesson learned will be to double the amount of the insurance and collect from the shipper on the cheats that are out there.

So if you come across mightypoo0 Beware

Randy

lazlo
10-24-2010, 06:42 PM
My return policy has always been, all sales are final, ask questions before you bid.

Unfortunately, that's against Ebay's selling policies.

Ebay, as a proxy retailer, is bound by the Uniform Commercial Code. As many sellers here have found, it's a simple matter for the buyer to file an Item Not Received claim and get their entire purchase amount, including shipping, refunded. The Uniform Commerical Code extends to any online retailer -- you can do a credit card chargeback on an Amazon, or Enco, or Borders transaction if the item they shipped is not what was described, or lost or damaged in transit.


http://answercenter.ebay.com/thread.jspa?threadID=900222761&tstart=30

ALL SALES FINAL
Posted: Apr-10-10 18:29 PDT
gambit622 (77 ) View Listings | Posts: 4 | Report

I just recently sold a used motorola modem. In auction it states No returns. Customer recieved modem and now wants a refund. He says it doesnt work in his sysytem. Also that im at fault because the modem came from comcast. But he clearly had time to ask me any questions before buying. If i see an item that says no returns, I would ask questions. So am i at fault because he failed to ask questions?

ALL SALES FINAL
Posted: Apr-10-10 18:32 PDT
mrsmtn (818 ) View Listings | Posts: 3,421 | Report

Sorry, but Ebay policy takes precedence over your no return policy every time. If the buyer files a SNAD [an Item Not Received Claim] they will be told to return the item for a refund. No refunds is only good for obvious cases of buyer's remorse and very few buyers will be that honest when filing a dispute.
Might as well refund now, as soon as the modem is returned.

lazlo
10-24-2010, 06:52 PM
If you accept PayPal, you MUST accept returns, period.
(http://reviews.ebay.com/If-you-accept-PayPal-you-MUST-accept-returns-period_W0QQugidZ10000000006999881)
http://reviews.ebay.com/If-you-accept-PayPal-you-MUST-accept-returns-period_W0QQugidZ10000000006999881

Something critically important that all sellers should know, but most do not: If a buyer pays with PayPal, you MUST accept the item back in return, no questions asked. It does not matter how many times you state in your auction that you do not accept returns, or all sales final, or items as-is or whatever. If the buyers uses PayPal and decides they want to return the item, you have no choice in the matter. They will file a claim and PayPal will instruct them to return the item, getting tracking as proof. As soon as PayPal sees (via the tracking number) that you have received the item, they remove the payment amount from your account. They do not ask you if the item was returned in its original condition, or even if the same item was returned at all. You have no recourse.

This just happened to a very good friend of mine. She sold a tiny Barbie spoon and the buyer wrote to say that the item had rust. My friend had lots of pictures of the spoon on the auction and there clearly was no rust or corrosion of any kind. But the buyer got to return the item, no questions asked, and got a full refund. My friend is now stuck with a damaged item and there is nothing she can do about it except file a police report. PayPal will ALWAYS find in favor of the buyer in these cases. And here is the worst part: Because my friend did not have a balance in her PayPal account, PayPal WENT INTO HER PERSONAL CHECKING ACCOUNT AT HER BANK AND TOOK BACK THE MONEY!!! This is slightly terrifying to me. When I called PayPal to ask how in the world I could protect myself, as a seller, from this happening to me, I was told that I could appeal and file a police report.

So sellers beware. You can state NO RETURNS, ALL SALES FINAL, ALL SALES AS-IS, or whatever you want to say in your ebay listing. None of it matters if the buyer uses PayPal. If they file a claim, they will win. Period. End of story.

Black_Moons
10-24-2010, 07:23 PM
Yea, Never link paypal with a bank account, If you do, Delete it RIGHT after withdrawing money to the account. Link it to a CC insted, They can @#!@ paypal harder then paypal can #@$% you, As CC chargeback trumps paypal.

wierdscience
10-24-2010, 07:41 PM
It's not theoretical, I've had to resort to filing an Item Not Received claim several times, and Ebay instantly pulls the full amount, including shipping, out of the seller's Paypal account. That's why sellers are required to have a bank account associated with their Paypal account.

Your tap dancing,the buyer in the OP didn't file a INR.The buyer also didn't follow Ebay policy which is -attempt to resolve the dispute between yourselves first,leave us out of it for as long as possible.

The buyer in the OP situation DID receive the item,DID knowingly attempt to fraud the OP,DID receive a refund from the OP and DID NOT return the item per they're agreement.The OP's merchandise was STOLEN by the buyer.

If one of those times you filed,had the seller had "No refunds,No returns" you would have been SOL unless you bought buyer protection insurance.Even then Caveat emptor still applies and Ebay will tell you so.

Now,under the new rules,if your playing games and scamming sellers with false INR claims and those sellers have uploaded tracking for they're shipments to you to Ebay/Paypal,not only will those INR claims fall on deaf ears,but you will also end up on the Buyers reporting hub,which you should since you would be a crook at that point:)

Now,if the OP had listed in his terms what his returns/refund policy is(which he can clearly do according to Ebay rules) there would have been no issue,the buyer would have to cough up the steady rest and return it.

If I were Randy,and I had documentation of the agreement between he and the buyer regarding the return I would take it up with Ebay since he is owed his merchandise.

Randy,from experience when dealing with Ebay/Paypal have documentation and the relevant rule ready for quote.The person your dealing with most times will only know the most basic of resolution rules.

wierdscience
10-24-2010, 07:56 PM
If you accept PayPal, you MUST accept returns, period.
(http://reviews.ebay.com/If-you-accept-PayPal-you-MUST-accept-returns-period_W0QQugidZ10000000006999881)
http://reviews.ebay.com/If-you-accept-PayPal-you-MUST-accept-returns-period_W0QQugidZ10000000006999881

Something critically important that all sellers should know, but most do not: If a buyer pays with PayPal, you MUST accept the item back in return, no questions asked. It does not matter how many times you state in your auction that you do not accept returns, or all sales final, or items as-is or whatever. If the buyers uses PayPal and decides they want to return the item, you have no choice in the matter. They will file a claim and PayPal will instruct them to return the item, getting tracking as proof. As soon as PayPal sees (via the tracking number) that you have received the item, they remove the payment amount from your account. They do not ask you if the item was returned in its original condition, or even if the same item was returned at all. You have no recourse.

This just happened to a very good friend of mine. She sold a tiny Barbie spoon and the buyer wrote to say that the item had rust. My friend had lots of pictures of the spoon on the auction and there clearly was no rust or corrosion of any kind. But the buyer got to return the item, no questions asked, and got a full refund. My friend is now stuck with a damaged item and there is nothing she can do about it except file a police report. PayPal will ALWAYS find in favor of the buyer in these cases. And here is the worst part: Because my friend did not have a balance in her PayPal account, PayPal WENT INTO HER PERSONAL CHECKING ACCOUNT AT HER BANK AND TOOK BACK THE MONEY!!! This is slightly terrifying to me. When I called PayPal to ask how in the world I could protect myself, as a seller, from this happening to me, I was told that I could appeal and file a police report.

So sellers beware. You can state NO RETURNS, ALL SALES FINAL, ALL SALES AS-IS, or whatever you want to say in your ebay listing. None of it matters if the buyer uses PayPal. If they file a claim, they will win. Period. End of story.

Member help forum posts should be taken with a grain of salt.Here is the link to Paypals claims procedure for Ebay sales-

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/CaseManagement/customerservice/EducationIdentifyIssue

lazlo
10-24-2010, 08:09 PM
Member help forum posts should be taken with a grain of salt.

Perhaps, but that's exactly how the process works.
As I said, I've had to resort to filing Item Not Received claims several times. Many others here and on PM have as well: Ebay refunds the full purchase price plus shipping, no questions asked.

In fact, it's what Gary350 was complaining about last month:

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=43504



I sold an item for $40 on Ebay. I mailed it to the buyer with a tracking number so I know the buyer received it. Buyer filed a complaint with paypal claims the item he received was a book not the item he paid for.

Paypal dispute rules requires the buyer send the item back with a tracking number to get a full refund. I received a package with a book inside, NOT THE @#$% ITEM I MAILED TO HIM.

Paypal is happy that I received the package back so the buyer got a full refund.


You don't even have to go through Paypal if you don't want -- it's the enforcement of the Uniform Commercial Code. Like BlackMoons says, you can do the chargeback directly through your credit card company up to 90 days after the sale. Works with any online retailer.

gary350
10-24-2010, 08:26 PM
The rule on Ebay/Paypal are, the buyer must return the item first and have a tracking number to prove you received the return package. Paypal puts a hold on your account so you can not transfer all the money to your bank and not pay. Once you receive the item paypal gives the guy his full refund no exception. Paypal is not concerned with buyer fraud.

With the new rules lots of people are using this as a way to cheat the seller. Lots of people will buy an item with the intent of ripping you off. That is why lots of sellers have quit ebay you can't loose money and stay in business. I am on 7 other forums I know about 30 people that were sellers for about 10 years they have all quit ebay. All the buyer has to do is claim, NOT AS ADVERTISED and file a complaint with paypal. Paypal required no proof so the seller is screwed. The buyer can send the seller a box of dirt with a tracking number and paypal will give the buyer a full refund. The buyer gets to keep the item and gets a refund too. There are enough thieves in this world soon all the sellers will quit ebay for good and ebay will be out of business unless they make some changes.

I quit ebay 2 years ago but mostly because I am tired of Ebay. This computer and Ebay were stealing my life away now I spend all my retirement free time camping, hiking, bicycling, gardening, etc.

wierdscience
10-24-2010, 08:26 PM
Perhaps, but that's exactly how the process works.
As I said, I've had to resort to filing Item Not Received claims several times. Many others here and on PM have as well: Ebay refunds the full purchase price plus shipping, no questions asked.

In fact, it's what Gary350 was complaining about last month:

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=43504





You don't even have to go through Paypal if you don't want -- it's the enforcement of the Uniform Commercial Code. Like BlackMoons says, you can do the chargeback directly through your credit card company up to 90 days after the sale. Works with any online retailer.

Robert,what happens between you and Ebay and you and your CC company is different than what happens between Ebay and the seller.Been there done that.
What happens after you do a charge back depends on the dollar amount.Will they investigate a $200 charge?Nope,will they investigate a $1500 charge?You bet and in spades.Too many charge backs in a six month period and they will look you over real good.

As for the returns policy,this is directly from Ebay,not one of they're forums-

Here's some information about: Why and how to offer a returns policy
Sellers on eBay are required to specify a return policy. This is true even if the seller's return policy is not to accept returns. If you don't specify a return policy, we'll select a default return policy for you.

You can set up and choose the details of your return policy -- time limit, charges, item condition, and more -- in the Additional Information section of the form you use to list your item.

Learn how to create a return policy.

-------------------

jkilroy
10-24-2010, 09:34 PM
"That's why sellers are required to have a bank account associated with their Paypal account."

Uh, thats not true. I sell on ebay, and have no bank account what-so-ever associated with my account.

Buyers know they have it made and they are exploiting it big time. The new saying should be "Seller beware".

lazlo
10-24-2010, 09:46 PM
"That's why sellers are required to have a bank account associated with their Paypal account."

Uh, thats not true. I sell on ebay, and have no bank account what-so-ever associated with my account.

Really?? I sell on Ebay, and I had to go through a process of associating a bank account with a standard ABA routing number to set up an eBay Seller Account.

How did you circumvent that?


Creating a Seller's Account

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/seller_account.html

Verifying your identity with your checking account information

Your account information is used for identification purposes only. eBay deducts fees from your account only if you authorize eBay to use it to pay your seller fees.

[Chuckle. The last page in the Ebay Terms of Service authorizes Ebay to deduct fees from your bank account :) ]

To ensure your checking account goes on file:
Make sure your routing number is correct. You’ll find your routing number on the bottom of your checks, usually between the symbols. Routing numbers are 9 digits long. If you don’t have a check available, ask your bank for your routing number.
Make sure your checking account number is correct. You’ll find your checking account number on the bottom of your checks, usually before the symbol.
If you need more help, contact your bank.

gary350
10-24-2010, 11:35 PM
At the moment Ebay and Paypal make their own rules, there is no court order that I know about that forces them to follow any certain rules. Ebay wants a guanantee that they will be paid so some form of guaranteed payment method like a bank account is required. The credit card is proof that you are who you claim to be. I have a bank account and a credit card listed with ebay it was required to open my account 10 years ago.

wierdscience
10-25-2010, 12:05 AM
Heh the CC I opened mine with was paid off and cut up 9 years ago,still buying and selling no problems.

J Tiers
10-25-2010, 12:24 AM
It's not theoretical, I've had to resort to filing an Item Not Received claim several times, and Ebay instantly pulls the full amount, including shipping, out of the seller's Paypal account. That's why sellers are required to have a bank account associated with their Paypal account.

And, I bet you never had to PROVE anything...... you just say so, or you say "all I got was a brick in a box, honest"......

EbayPal "instantly" screws the seller, and there is apparently NO WAY to un-do that screwing.

This is why I never finished setting up an ebay seller account. I simply told them to pound sand, and do not have not, and never WILL have an ebay account of any sort so long as they act to facilitate, work with, and encourage thieves.

Evan
10-25-2010, 01:58 AM
I do not, have not and will not deal with E-bay or ever open a pay pal account. This thread merely reinforces why. I buy a lot of items on line and have never been ripped off. I always make my first order by telephone if at all possible. I always pay by credit card that I am willing to cancel immediately if need be. I always save a screen shot of the order page and the confirmation page.

JoeLee
10-25-2010, 08:15 AM
Yea, Never link paypal with a bank account, If you do, Delete it RIGHT after withdrawing money to the account. Link it to a CC insted, They can @#!@ paypal harder then paypal can #@$% you, As CC chargeback trumps paypal.

Don't you have to have your PP account linked to your checking account in order to have a verified status with no linit on transaction amounts??
Seems like I ran into this a few years ago, after I spent $500 I was no longer able to make any more purchases for the month until I was verified which required linking my checking acount. I haven't had any of the above mentioned problems yet but always wonder. I would imagine if you unlinky your bank account you will loose that status.

JL......................

JL...................

lazlo
10-25-2010, 08:22 AM
And, I bet you never had to PROVE anything...... you just say so, or you say "all I got was a brick in a box, honest"......

EbayPal "instantly" screws the seller, and there is apparently NO WAY to un-do that screwing.

That's very true Jerry. Ebay overwhelmingly sides with the buyer, and yes -- they instantly pull the full refund out of the seller's bank account with the barest of supporting evidence.

But I think you know me well enough that I would not resort to filing an Item Not Received unless I had a damn good reason.

But apropos to the original topic, at least once a month here and on PM, we have a thread where a seller sells something with "No Refunds. All Sales Final." in the auction text, and is puzzled why Ebay pulls the full purchase price, plus shipping, out of his bank account.

The reason is very simple: refund policies and restocking fees are strictly for "Buyer's Remorse." If the item shipped is lost, damaged, or not as described in the auction, the Uniform Commercial Code applies, and the rest is history.

Also important, is that in almost every case, the seller begrudgingly admits that there was something wrong with the item. One of the posters in Gary350's thread admitted that he had a "Secret" Ebay account where he sold all his really crappy stuff :mad:

lazlo
10-25-2010, 08:30 AM
Don't you have to have your PP account linked to your checking account in order to have a verified status with no linit on transaction amounts??

Yes. The whole purpose of doing that is so Ebay has enough funds to cover an Item Not Received transaction. If you're new on Ebay, and don't have sufficient funds in your bank account, Ebay will do a "Deferred Payment" -- you won't be paid until the buyer leaves positive feedback.


I spent $500 I was no longer able to make any more purchases for the month until I was verified which required linking my checking acount.

I would imagine if you unlinky your bank account you will loose that status.

That's also true.


I haven't had any of the above mentioned problems yet but always wonder.

I haven't either, but I don't sell items I wouldn't sell to a friend, and I insure and track my packages.

J Tiers
10-25-2010, 08:54 AM
But I think you know me well enough that I would not resort to filing an Item Not Received unless I had a damn good reason.



Robert, YOU are not the problem, obviously..... There are, however, people who specialize in that, and tend to buy higher priced items.

The neatest and best feature of the scam is that the seller can provide all the documentation anyone could possibly want, but the "buyer" neatly escapes from that by simply saying that they didn't get the goods, that yes they got a box, but the evil scamming seller just put a brick in there instead of the item.

it's foolproof, so long as Ebay requires no proof. And, of course, there really isn't any WAY to prove anything, ever.... The box is packed without Ebay seeing it, the box is shipped through places where anything could be stolen and replaced by a brick, with nobody watching it. Finally, the "buyer" opens the box without Ebay seeing it.

Even the video that someone mentioned above is so easy to fake that it is completely worthless as evidence..... open the bottom first, take out the goods, place your packing and brick, seal up, turn over, and roll the cameras...... Child's play, "so easy a caveman could do it".......

The "buyer" can say anything, and would no doubt have sufficient "witnesses" in any case.

The seller simply cannot win against a crooked buyer, and even Ebay is unable to properly police the system.

Ebay ONLY WORKS as long as people are honest, but it offers such a free ride to fraud and outright thievery that it is inevitable that it will die a hard death in theft and fraud....

Ebay may side with the buyer, but that is relatively natural.... the buyer sends money, and Ebay controls that part of the transaction. Ebay has nothing to do with the sending of goods, so they simply throw up their hands and assume the seller is evil as a default.

The only alternative is to act as a clearinghouse, with all shipments going through Ebay. Obviously that is totally unworkable, and STILL vulnerable to theft by employees, with all the potential liability etc that adds....

wierdscience
10-25-2010, 08:55 AM
But apropos to the original topic, at least once a month here and on PM, we have a thread where a seller sells something with "No Refunds. All Sales Final." in the auction text, and is puzzled why Ebay pulls the full purchase price, plus shipping, out of his bank account.

The reason is very simple: refund policies and restocking fees are strictly for "Buyer's Remorse." If the item shipped is lost, damaged, or not as described in the auction, the Uniform Commercial Code applies, and the rest is history.


Yabut,as I pointed out the last time they cannot claim to abide by the UCC and then ignore it,not even in California.If the seller has documentation and challenges them on it they back down.

The Auction page is a legally binding contract between two parties the buyer and the seller.It's the seller's responsibility to list the what,how,when and where parts of the contract and Ebay even says so.The bidder has ample time to research the item and ample time to withdraw they're bid before the auction closes.

The last scan was the minor scam.They bought something,had it delivered and signed for it and then claimed they're kid had bought it and since minors can't engage in legally binding contracts.....took Ebay just about a month to figure that one out.They changed they're who can buy on Ebay page to bar minors.

In a way I can't wait to hear all the crooked buyers complaining when they're bids get rejected once they end up in the hub.

JoeLee
10-25-2010, 09:05 AM
Well my advise is to open a checking account and just keep the min. balance in there and just use that account for the sole use of linking to your PP account. This way everything will default to your credit card giving you more protection and the ability to dispute the problem with your CC co. There are a lot of small local banks that offer no fee checking accounts and don't require a minimum balance. Remember with paypal, everything defaults to your PP balance first, if you don't have the funds there then it will automaticly default to you linked bank account (AND YOU CAN'T CHANGE THAT) The only thing that you can set to stay defaulted to your credit card is payments for subscriptions.

JL.................

wierdscience
10-25-2010, 09:08 AM
The "buyer" can say anything, and would no doubt have sufficient "witnesses" in any case.

The seller simply cannot win against a crooked buyer, and even Ebay is unable to properly police the system.
...

Jerry,the new rules if they are implemented as promised are going to make it hard on bad buyers.

They talk of a hub where bad buyers can be listed by sellers,if the buyer is in the hub you as a seller have the right to reject they're bids and pay no penalty even after an auction closes,just as you do now before an auction ends.The buyer can also be banned by Ebay if a pattern developes.

Even with all the warts most folks on Ebay are honest,as usual it's the 5% that aren't that are the PITA.

Black_Moons
10-25-2010, 09:33 AM
Well my advise is to open a checking account and just keep the min. balance in there and just use that account for the sole use of linking to your PP account. This way everything will default to your credit card giving you more protection and the ability to dispute the problem with your CC co. There are a lot of small local banks that offer no fee checking accounts and don't require a minimum balance. Remember with paypal, everything defaults to your PP balance first, if you don't have the funds there then it will automaticly default to you linked bank account (AND YOU CAN'T CHANGE THAT) The only thing that you can set to stay defaulted to your credit card is payments for subscriptions.
JL.................

Hah, I had a wonderful experiance with this. When I had my bank and CC linked, Suddenly the default option changed from withdrawl from CC to withdrawl from bank account without any notification.. Fun thing is, I did'nt have enough money in my bank account. Even better, even though ebay advertises it as 'instant' theres a 3~5 day wait before the payment is 'cleared' and they CLEARLY tell the seller to NOT ship the item untill the payment clears... Clearly not instant.
So I had to race down to the bank to deposit enough money for the purcess. I deleted my bank account from paypal right after that. you CAN do it.
I highly suspect I would of gotten an overdraft fee or bounced transaction fee from my bank or somesuch if I had NOT put the money into the account..

JoeLee
10-25-2010, 09:41 AM
The same thing happened to me once and I was charged an overdraft fee. One of those late nite things.......... wasn't quite awake. You can choose "more funding options" and select credit card, but that will be only for that one transaction. It then defaults back to PP balance first and bank account second.

JL.........................

aboard_epsilon
10-25-2010, 09:54 AM
UK guys

how long should you have to wait for something from Hong Kong

been 15 days now ..with seller telling me i should not complain until its been 20 days

Ive had stuff from Hong Kong in the past in 6 days !

all the best.markj

JoeLee
10-25-2010, 10:48 AM
I received some batteries from HK in 5 days.

JL................

Highpower
10-25-2010, 12:51 PM
I deleted my bank account from paypal right after that. you CAN do it.
Do tell..... HOW?

I had my fill of ebay long ago and still worry about them having my bank info. :mad:

squirrel
10-25-2010, 09:49 PM
I really put the screws to Paypal and eBay since the company AMEX card is used to pay for items purchased and eBay fees!!!! We do not take AMEX on our dot com or catalog orders because the fees are over 5.5%. Its amazing how many rewards points we have, the better half thinks she can do the majority of her Christmas shopping from the online rewards catalog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As I am writing this my other hand is flying the single digit toward eBay's office......

beanbag
10-25-2010, 09:56 PM
If the seller says you sent an empty box, you have the post office receipt that says how much the box weighs.

lakeside53
10-25-2010, 10:06 PM
Well my advise is to open a checking account and just keep the min. balance in there and just use that account for the sole use of linking to your PP account. This way everything will default to your credit card giving you more protection and the ability to dispute the problem with your CC co. There are a lot of small local banks that offer no fee checking accounts and don't require a minimum balance. Remember with paypal, everything defaults to your PP balance first, if you don't have the funds there then it will automaticly default to you linked bank account (AND YOU CAN'T CHANGE THAT) The only thing that you can set to stay defaulted to your credit card is payments for subscriptions.

JL.................


Not a great plan.

First they try your PP account, then the bank account; If the Bank account lacks funds, they try it again a few hours later. If the balance isn't there either time, YOU will get a NSF charge from your bank for EACH attempt to withdraw funds. At BOA, that's $35 each time. If both attempts fail, they use your credit card.

lakeside53
10-25-2010, 10:13 PM
Anyone reading this thread woukd think Ebay is a den of thieves.

I bet the disputed transactions are a TINY % of the business conducted, and fraud a tiny % of that.

wierdscience
10-25-2010, 10:47 PM
Anyone reading this thread woukd think Ebay is a den of thieves.

I bet the disputed transactions are a TINY % of the business conducted, and fraud a tiny % of that.

The percentage of all this depends on the category.I've sold in about 10 different categories.My experience has been-

Business and Industrial crooks 5%< Antiques&Collectibles 12-14%<Automotive 10-12%<

The absolute worst Electronics.

gary350
10-25-2010, 11:41 PM
Once about 5 years ago my Son bought a hard drive from a seller on ebay. The hard drive arrived and it did not work. Seller refused to reply to email. I checked the sellers feedback and he had about 30 sales all negative feedback and all claiming he sold them a hard drive that did not work. The seller was kicked off ebay.

About a week or so later we were looking to buy another hard drive and I came across an ad that was word for word identical to the seller that had been banded from ebay. I checked his feedback and he had no feedback yet. Within about 10 days the seller has pretty close to 30 negative feedbacks and was kicked of ebay.

This got me to thing this seller is an idiot he is opening a new account with a different credit card and copying his subjects lines and ads work for work to his new auctions. I did a search and found his new auctions and reported it to ebay along with his history of his 2 banned accounts. The seller was banned again.

About a week later I did a search and found another new account and reported it to ebay and he was banned a 4 time.

The seller opened 2 more accounts I found them both and reported them to ebay and he was banned again.

After that either the seller ran out of credit cards to open new accounts, or ebay found a way to permently block him because I never could find he again. GOOD.....sellers like that need to stay off ebay.

Sellers that rip people off on purpose will not be on ebay very long. The only way to make money is to operate an honest business. Happy customers will return to buy again.

J Tiers
10-26-2010, 12:06 AM
Sellers that rip people off on purpose will not be on ebay very long. The only way to make money is to operate an honest business. Happy customers will return to buy again.

of course.... but by your own count, and assuming that he had roughly the same number of complaints each time, there could be as many as 6 x 30 = 180 ripped-off buyers from this one scammer. And that is just from the accounts you know about, there could be more from earlier accounts.....

Wierd.... that would be fine.... the bad buyer hub would be a good idea....

But judging from the way folks like Al Babin seemed to reappear over and over, and the 6 different seller accounts in the post partly quoted above, buyers could also duck and weave, and manage to stay active with accounts that are not listed.

Reporting a fraud is fine, but when it is YOUR $1500 (or whatever) that is gone into space, it isn't very satisfying to the pocketbook.....

Black_Moons
10-26-2010, 03:06 AM
Do tell..... HOW?

I had my fill of ebay long ago and still worry about them having my bank info. :mad:

'You can click the profile tab in your account and click the bank account link and click remove.' At least, thats what a quick google turned up.

fixit
10-26-2010, 04:54 AM
The reason ebay pushes paypal is i think you will find that ebay bought paypal a while back

gary350
10-26-2010, 03:36 PM
My son is trying to sell a box of 28 video games on ebay. The games all fit perfect is a $10.40 flat rate box. Ebay refuses to let him charge the buyer more than $9.00 and he can not add extra 65 cents for a tracking number which is required by paypal. This means the seller looses $2.05 on postage.

Sense when does ebay have the right to tell the post office how much they can charge.

aboard_epsilon
10-26-2010, 03:47 PM
what would happen if he split it into two auctions for 14 vids and $9 postage on each .

all the best.markj

gnm109
10-26-2010, 03:52 PM
My son is trying to sell a box of 28 video games on ebay. The games all fit perfect is a $10.40 flat rate box. Ebay refuses to let him charge the buyer more than $9.00 and he can not add extra 65 cents for a tracking number which is required by paypal. This means the seller looses $2.05 on postage.

Sense when does ebay have the right to tell the post office how much they can charge.


I don't know why eBay would do that but here's a tip for you. When the sale is completed and you are ready to ship, if you purchase a USPS shipping label through PayPal using the link provided for that purpose, the delivery confirmation is included at no extra charge.

As to the price charged for shipping, you are permitted to add on a handling fee. It's in the original setup form for your listing. I make a product for Harley-Davidson sidecars that I sell periodically. It fits in the small flat-rate box. I charge $4.95. If I buy through PayPal, they charge me only $4.85 through my PayPal account. I make a whole dime and get a delivery confirmation free! What's not to like about that? :) I could also charge an extra handling fee if I wanted to but I never do.

Once the label is on the package, I drop it off at the local post office and get a receipt. Since it's prepaid, I don't have to pay at that point.

I also have an account at UPS as well and I've noticed, that there is a slight discount for setting up a prepaid shipment through PayPal. I can't complain about that either.

Keep smiling. :D

lazlo
10-26-2010, 05:00 PM
My son is trying to sell a box of 28 video games on ebay. The games all fit perfect is a $10.40 flat rate box. Ebay refuses to let him charge the buyer more than $9.00 and he can not add extra 65 cents for a tracking number which is required by paypal. This means the seller looses $2.05 on postage.

The "right" way, according to Ebay, is to assign a handling fee. The handling fee can be packing materials, insurance, tracking fees, even your time and effort.