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aostling
11-19-2010, 12:10 AM
This video shows a 15-story hotel being completed in less than six days. No smoko for these workers. What's the rush?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps0DSihggio&feature=player_embedded

BigBoy1
11-19-2010, 06:10 AM
I think the Chinese have come up with an excellent method of a pre-fab building. Many of the parts are "repeated" in each room so mass production techniques can be used for the forming of the structural members. All of the parts just need to be assembled on site. Sure a lot faster than the concrete/rebar construction technique.

On a recent visit to China, the joke was, "The National Bird of China should be the Building Crane." No matter what city you were in, there were building cranes on the horizon in all directions. The pre-fab method is an outstanding solution to the long build time of concete structures.

Your Old Dog
11-19-2010, 07:23 AM
I have a feeling the building pictured might be a pretty boring structure, especially if a city was filled with buildings built that way. Don't suppose they took the time for any grand foyer but rather lego style construction. Now doubt we could learn a few things from their engineering for speed.

Evan
11-19-2010, 09:03 AM
That style of construction will also have very high resistance to earthquake damage which is a big consideration in much of China. In case anybody is wondering about the odd looking colour scheme it is red because that is considered a lucky colour that portends good fortune and prosperity.

When I had my computer store open my phone number ended in 8-8888. Eight is also considered a very lucky number so I had very good customer service from the Chinese reps at my suppliers in Vancouver. They just loved to dial my number. :)

BTW, it points out details that need to be considered when doing business with the Chinese. If your phone number has a 4 in it you are out of luck, literally. The number four has almost the same pronounciation as the word "death" in Mandarin and is synonymous with death.

J Tiers
11-19-2010, 09:08 AM
The hotel was NOT built in the time described. That is a false description.

It was ASSEMBLED" in that time, much as an industrial product is assembled. There is a difference.

The time was in making the parts that were stacked up and connected to create the building.

Evan
11-19-2010, 09:16 AM
Hah. It was installed.

SDL
11-19-2010, 09:32 AM
I have a feeling the building pictured might be a pretty boring structure, especially if a city was filled with buildings built that way. Don't suppose they took the time for any grand foyer but rather lego style construction. Now doubt we could learn a few things from their engineering for speed.

Looks like any old Holiday inn express, Super 8 etc etc or other us Box motel.

Steve Larner

lazlo
11-19-2010, 10:05 AM
Clearly a government *cough* promotional video -- everyone has brand-new clothes, all the tools are unused. They list it as "Protype [sic] #3 of Broad Sustainable Building"

Love the hot chick in the silk blouse and skirt "inventorying" tools at 0:36 :D

Edit: by the way, at 1:28 into the video, they've completed the building frame at 46 hours, 38 minutes (the morning of the second day). But at that point, you can see through the structure, and there's no plumbing, electrical, or HVAC. It takes another 4 days to shell the building, and install everything else.

Carld
11-19-2010, 10:16 AM
:eek: well, I guess it's better than using bamboo. It looks very creative to me. I wonder if we here in Ky could get them to build our two new bridges over the Ohio river we have been trying to get started for about 20 years now. They say it will take 5 to 10 years to build the bridges but I bet the Chinese could build and assemble both our bridges in less than a year and way under budget.

Hell, I would even go for a bamboo bridge, it would at least be up and last as long as anything we build here now.

JCHannum
11-19-2010, 10:48 AM
It is really no different than any other steel prefab building.

It was assembled in six days, but what is not known is what is it built on. It certainly took longer than six days for the foundation work. If the foundation work is typical of some of the other chicom projects, I would question its earthquake resistance.

danlb
11-19-2010, 11:29 AM
I watched a lot of high-rises go up when I worked in San Francisco.

It took more time to get the foundation ready than it took for the rest of the building.

As was pointed out, it's easy to build things quickly if you spend hundreds of thousands of man hours to prepare the modules that will be installed. It's like a the boast that GM can build a car on the assembly line in less than 24 hours.... not counting the time needed to actually make the engines, seats, frames, etc.

Dan

Evan
11-19-2010, 11:35 AM
If the foundation work is typical of some of the other chicom projects, I would question its earthquake resistance.


You mean like US built bridges?

John Stevenson
11-19-2010, 11:37 AM
Whatever,
At least they are building something not talking about it or endless meetings where nothing gets done.

JCHannum
11-19-2010, 12:13 PM
You mean like US built bridges?

No, I was addressing chicom construction methods;

http://www.chinareallysucks.com/Site/New_Stuff/Entries/2010/8/2_Entry_1.html

Forrest Addy
11-19-2010, 12:16 PM
"Rome wasn't built in a day" which may be another way of saying some erections take longer than others.

jugs
11-19-2010, 12:39 PM
"Rome wasn't built in a day" which may be another way of saying some erections take longer than others.

Because I wasn't foreman on that job :D

john
:)

recoilless
11-19-2010, 01:45 PM
What JC said, I doubt that the foundation could have been built in the time alotted per the video. And if it was, I wouldn't want to spend a minute in the building...and I love Chinese food.

Evan, I'm currently working on three bridges for the state as we speak. Come on down, I'll show you around.

Carld
11-19-2010, 01:56 PM
Umm yes, here in Ky they have spent about 20 years and just about 10 million dollars designing and talking about building and fighting to keep it from being built the two bridges they need here.

Had we hired the Chinese 20 years ago to build the bridge it would be time to replace it or repair it and rehire the Chinese to do it again.

It is so damn hard to get any roads or bridges built in the USA that is becoming a joke on the public.

Maybe it would be better if we default on our Chinese loans and let them take the country over.

JCHannum
11-19-2010, 02:34 PM
Had we hired the Chinese 20 years ago to build the bridge it would be time to replace it or repair it and rehire the Chinese to do it again.

You won't have to wait that long, the chicoms have become so efficient that the bridges collapse before they are completed;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2256419.ece

speedy
11-19-2010, 03:32 PM
That is an attractive Leggo building erected in quick time.


This one came down in a quicker time frame

http://izismile.com/2009/06/29/apartment_building_fell_down_in_china_12_pics.html

.RC.
11-19-2010, 03:35 PM
Y

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2256419.ece

I imagine the death toll will rise once the chinese government find someone to blame ;)

JCHannum
11-19-2010, 03:42 PM
That is an attractive Leggo building erected in quick time.


This one came down in a quicker time frame

http://izismile.com/2009/06/29/apartment_building_fell_down_in_china_12_pics.html

Kind of like anything you buy at Harbor Freight, it might need some fixing prior to use.

Evan
11-19-2010, 03:51 PM
The engineers must have attended school in the US.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3439672&page=1

Carld
11-19-2010, 04:39 PM
perhaps that may be a good idea, the thinning of the populace may not be a bad idea. The smart ones could stay off the Chinese bridges and the dumb ones would use them. Works for me.

A few years ago a friend got us a trip to a hanger at Bowman Field in Lou. Ky to visit some aircraft. They had a P51, P47 and a T6. in the hanger. We looked at all the aircraft and as I looked over the T6 I noticed there was arsenal mounts under the wings so I asked what they were for since the T6 is a trainer aircraft. The man showing us around said the T6 was a population control aircraft owned by the Spanish government and was flown in Africa. When they wanted to thin the population in an area they loaded the plane with mini guns, bombs and rockets and went to the villages they wanted to thin out and proceeded to do so.

Perhaps the Chinese government does the same thing with buildings and bridges rather than using aircraft.

lazlo
11-19-2010, 06:23 PM
perhaps that may be a good idea, the thinning of the populace may not be a bad idea. The smart ones could stay off the Chinese bridges and the dumb ones would use them.

A tragic example of a similar problem was the nearly 6,000 school children who died in the 2008 Sichuan earthquake when nearly all the schools in that region collapsed from shoddy construction. Someone posted the pictures here of school buildings with car tires, bottles, and various other debris mixed into the concrete.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/5294397/Sichuan-earthquake-anniversary-Parents-of-victims-told-not-to-hold-memorials.html

gary350
11-19-2010, 06:41 PM
That motel is amazing.

Several years ago a group of people built a house in 2 days. It took them several tries of practice for about a month to finally do it. There is a video online I don't recall the name. There was about 1000 workers each person had a specific job. After building this house several times the workers knew what to do so that made it faster.

bob_s
11-19-2010, 06:56 PM
Same construction technique as used to build the High school I attended in the 1960's. Built as I recall in 1964 in Edmonton, Alberta - see McNally Composite High School.

sansbury
11-19-2010, 10:28 PM
Nice, but I'm waiting for them to start printing buildings on-site:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfbhdZKPHro

J Tiers
11-19-2010, 10:42 PM
Hah. It was installed.

There is a definite point to that.........

wierdscience
11-20-2010, 12:07 AM
IIRC that technology was originally pioneered by the Japanese.

whitis
11-20-2010, 02:20 AM
In 1980, I drove over the Sunshine Skyway Bridge. A month later,
1200 feet of the bridge collapsed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Skywayaccident.jpg), killing 35, when a freighter collided with it.

We have had some mishaps during bridge construction in the US. On a caving trip to New River Gorge, I found a big sheared off bolt. A section of the bridge (which was the worlds tallest for 27 years) collapsed during construction. The cable system that was used to build that bridge was also used to build the Hoover Dam bypass bridge (now the highest bridge in the US) 42 years later ; construction of which was delayed two years due to the collapse of the cable system.

A small bridge a couple blocks from my house that I have used frequently is being closed next month for replacement. Having scored 2 out of 100 (the Minnesota bridge was 50) on its sufficiency rating it is one of the worst in the state, it is already closed to fire trucks, busses, and other heavy vehicles. Built in 1932.

macona
11-20-2010, 02:55 AM
Same here in portland. The Sellwood Bridge is getting pretty bad and they have restricted traffic to regular vehicles only. The St Johns bridge was totally gone over a couple years ago.

recoilless
11-20-2010, 08:09 AM
The engineers must have attended school in the US.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3439672&page=1

?? What does that article have to do with attending school in the US??

JCHannum
11-20-2010, 11:15 AM
http://izismile.com/2009/06/29/apartment_building_fell_down_in_china_12_pics.html

Classic example of a chinglish fail. The writer somehow got the Viagra warning against erections lasting longer than four hours mixed into the assembly instructions.

grannygear
11-20-2010, 08:56 PM
Just finished reading Simon Winchester's Book, "The Man Who Loved China." It's about famed British scholar Joseph Needham, who came to China in 1934 and began to discover, or re-discover, all of the wonderful things that Chinese ingenuity had developed or perfected long before they were known in the West.

Among his many observations was the high degree of sophistication of Chinese bridge building. Elegant, strong stone bridges that had survived for millenia. There was once a proud tradition of architecture and engineering for public spaces, backed up by a long-established civil service.

Now, alas, I must agree that current construction methods are slipshod, inept and corrupt. It is routine to hear of some official or another being caught accepting a bribe in exchange for signing off on sub-standard safety report, or for allowing substitute materials in a major project, etc.

Right now China is hosting the Asian Games. Venues and other infrastructure were thrown up in record time to deal with the influx of people. An engineer for the subway system blew the whistle on the fact that a new subway link to the site of the Games had failed inspection for the strength of the concrete. He was a senior supervisor, and he was absolutely correct. The link was opened anyway, and he was demoted and sent into professional limbo.

Now, rumors are floating around about major safety concerns for the new high-speed rail network that's being developed. This was confirmed to me when I read about it in the South China Morning Post in Hong Kong, a paper which is illegal on the mainland.

In addition to the greed and corruption, there is nothing akin to a system of apprenticeship or certification in the trades (ok, there are some in theory, little in practice). Any guy fresh off the farm can get a job pouring concrete on a skyscraper. Who's watching him? Who knows. It's a mess, but as long as there's money to be made it continues.

aostling
11-21-2010, 12:51 AM
Just finished reading Simon Winchester's Book, "The Man Who Loved China." It's about famed British scholar Joseph Needham, who came to China in 1934 and began to discover, or re-discover, all of the wonderful things that Chinese ingenuity had developed or perfected long before they were known in the West.


I read that book too. It inspired me to track down Needham's 27-volume history of Chinese technology. I found it at the local university library. The volume on ancient Chinese mechanical engineering describes how the lathe was developed in China, although the Egyptians probably had developed it independently and in the same era.

I found Zhongshan on my Times Atlas, not too far from Gwangzhou (Canton). Is your region relatively free of the air pollution I've been reading about as a plague over major Chinese cities?

grannygear
11-21-2010, 02:03 AM
I found Zhongshan on my Times Atlas, not too far from Gwangzhou (Canton). Is your region relatively free of the air pollution I've been reading about as a plague over major Chinese cities?

Yes, I'm close to Guangzhou. And I would say that the air quality has got much better - though that may not be saying much. There have been pollution control measures, but I think most of the improvement comes from getting rid of old, dirty motor vehicles which are being replaced by modern and much cleaner cars, trucks and buses. And, too, China is investing heavily in public transport, something that I wish the US was doing. You want jobs? We should be laying down high speed rail in America, in my opinion.

Zhongshan is a relatively clean and modern city. Not one of the black holes of industry that you may have read about. I probably don't know how bad the air is, though. If I were magically transported back to the California Redwoods, where I used to live, I would probably weep, just to breathe that air again.

jugs
11-21-2010, 03:00 AM
......
In addition to the greed and corruption, there is nothing akin to a system of apprenticeship or certification in the trades (ok, there are some in theory, little in practice). Any guy fresh off the farm can get a job pouring concrete on a skyscraper. Who's watching him? Who knows. It's a mess, but as long as there's money to be made it continues.

So nothing new there then :( history repeating it's self again :eek:

john
:)

John Stevenson
11-21-2010, 06:58 AM
Originally Posted by grannygear
......
In addition to the greed and corruption, there is nothing akin to a system of apprenticeship or certification in the trades (ok, there are some in theory, little in practice). Any guy fresh off the farm can get a job pouring concrete on a skyscraper. Who's watching him? Who knows. It's a mess, but as long as there's money to be made it continues.



So nothing new there then :( history repeating it's self again :eek:

john
So a bit like the welders on the liberty ships throwing bundles of welding rods into the vees then welding over the top to get the bonus's ?

lazlo
11-21-2010, 11:11 AM
So a bit like the welders on the liberty ships throwing bundles of welding rods into the vees then welding over the top to get the bonus's ?

9 welders out of hundreds of thousands who built 2,700 liberty ships. After early welding failures, the US government implemented welding standards and inspection protocols.

What were the Liberty ships carrying again? :)

whitis
11-21-2010, 12:36 PM
I read that book too. It inspired me to track down Needham's 27-volume history of Chinese technology. I found it at the local university library. The volume on ancient Chinese mechanical engineering describes how the lathe was developed in China, although the Egyptians probably had developed it independently and in the same era.


The basic wood lathe (and the drill) was probably independently invented, reinvented, and sometimes forgotten, in many cultures, just as we see many other common threads developing in different cultures. What kid doesn't discover that you can twirl a stick between your palms or that a rock can be used as a tool? Next thing you know, one end of the stick is stuck in a hole and a rock used to debark the stick.

wierdscience
11-21-2010, 01:17 PM
So a bit like the welders on the liberty ships throwing bundles of welding rods into the vees then welding over the top to get the bonus's ?

Accusing shipyard welders of doing such is totally out of line,welding rods would never be used for "prairie metal",there was simply too much scrap angle iron laying around to waste valuable welding rod:D

wierdscience
11-21-2010, 01:19 PM
The basic wood lathe (and the drill) was probably independently invented, reinvented, and sometimes forgotten, in many cultures, just as we see many other common threads developing in different cultures. What kid doesn't discover that you can twirl a stick between your palms or that a rock can be used as a tool? Next thing you know, one end of the stick is stuck in a hole and a rock used to debark the stick.


The developement may not have been very independant.Many things may have been shared since we are discovering that our distant ancestors did much more traveling than we though possible before.

John Stevenson
11-21-2010, 01:19 PM
9 welders out of hundreds of thousands who built 2,700 liberty ships. After early welding failures, the US government implemented welding standards and inspection protocols.

What were the Liberty ships carrying again? :)



Sailors of the same nationality as the welders ? :D

jugs
11-21-2010, 03:37 PM
So a bit like the welders on the liberty ships throwing bundles of welding rods into the vees then welding over the top to get the bonus's ?

Yes, & also
like - the recent debacle in the gulf where safety, good practice & effective monitoring were put aside in the pursuit our lust for cheap oil.

like - Hitler attacking Russia @ the wrong time of year, didn't he know about Napoleon ?

like - America going into Afghanistan in the 21st century, look what happened to the soviets in the 20th, the brits in the 19th & America in Vietnam.

like - rebuilding on a gologocal faultline.

like - .......

Why are we so arrogant that we wont learn from history :confused:

john
:)