Burt Munro's Indian and other bikes

[aostling]

On 21 September 2010 I woke up in Invercargill, New Zealand's southernmost city, and once the home of Burt Munro. It was threatening to snow. I had a good breakfast, said goodbye to my B&B hostess, and drove a few blocks to the E. Hayes & Co. Ltd. Hardware store.

I wish there were more hardware stores like this. In addition to a great range of tools, it has a collection of motorcycles in the back. Here you can see the World's Fastest Indian:

This 1954 Victoria Bergmeister is a 350cc V-twin. According to Wiki it was made in Nuremberg, Germany.





What most intrigued me was this unrestored 1951 Series C Vincent Rapide. Do Vincents handle as badly as I have heard?

[Don Young]

I have owned two Series C Vincent Black Shadows, one I bought new in 1951 and the second one I bought used in 1952. The second one had been modified with some parts for the Black Lightning. The stock one had a fierce clutch engagement and 1st gear was pretty high so getting underway without stalling the engine took a little practice. Starting with two 500CC high compression cylinders using a compression release also was a learning process. The Black Shadows had short nearly straight low mounted handlebars so were not very good in ruts or deep sand! All that was magnified on the modified machine. But being able, without over-revving the engine, to do 70MPH in 1st, 90 in 2nd, 110 in third and 125 in fourth more than made up for it. They would just loaf along at a 100MPH cruising speed. There was no sense of looseness, wobble, or other instability at speed. Four brakes matched the performance. Engineering features abounded, like being able to remove either wheel without tools and a side stand on both sides. Sure wish I could afford another, although they are no match performance-wise for a modern muscle bike.

[The Artful Bodger]

Great photos Allan!

Did you get any of the home made 'engine' in the same shot?

That company seems to have made at least half of all the general farm hardware, wire pullers, etc etc, in this country. At one time they had a machine shop powered by a windmill of rather generous proportions.

[Circlip]

A mate paid £100 ($150) in 1964 for a 51 C Rapide, Pillion on it doing 119MPH on the old Pudsey bypass towards Rodley. He later emigrated to Oz and sent the bike over there in two pieces, packed in two 50 Gallon oil drums.

The high geared starts cost him two replacement fibre timing gears and one metal one before he stopped trying to do racing starts (Barmy Polack)

Fastest I'd been on a bike untill years later (and 25 years older) when I got a Guzzi.

Regards Ian.

[Peter S]

Alan,

Thanks for the photos. The Victoria is an interesting machine, very nice. Strangely the notice says it has shaft drive, but the "gearbox" uses four sets of chains, not gears. Perhaps this is similar to the type of thing Frazer Nash used, presumably fairly cheap and easy to change ratios too. The drive sprockets of each chain set free-wheel on the same shaft, a dog clutch is moved to connect sprocket to shaft. At least thats how I think they worked. I think the F-N chain drives were exposed, perhaps the Victoria hides them away and keeps them oiled....

[aostling]

Did you get any of the home made 'engine' in the same shot?

Here is that strange contraption. I asked one of the clerks what it did, and he replied "everything and nothing."






There were two or three Ariels.

[aostling]

And this 1929 Liberty outboard, which has a straight drive to the propeller.



I had to put this in a separate post. For some reason the forum software said I had exceeded the limit of four photos, if I tried to include it in the previous post which has only three photos.

[Weston Bye]

The Reason Why

For some reason the forum software said I had exceeded the limit of four photos, if I tried to include it in the previous post which has only three photos.

The smiley face in Bodger's quote counted as a photo.

[Your Old Dog]

Thanks for the interesting pics. Any Harley's? Any old Harley's without puddles under them?

[jep24601]

Do Vincents handle as badly as I have heard?

A Vincent was my daily rider through college. I wouldn't say the handling was bad but it was decidedly different. It felt like the steering had an inertia to it and you had to more positively retrack (sometimes improperly called counterstreering) to corner. It was extremely stable cornering once you were leaned over - you could hit a pothole and it wouldn't budge.

The only real drawback to the suspension system seemed to be the ability to get a vertical tank slapper (very scary). It happened to me only one time when I came down off a temporary overpass and the sudden transition from the sloping boards of the overpass to the level street threw me into a vertical tankslapper. It was the leading link girdraulic forks which lent the bike this tendency.

A friend of mine (with a C Rapide) told me about a friend of his at college who had a Black Prince and who allowed an eager aquaintance to try riding it. Unfamiliar with the steering of the Vincent the fellow rode in a perfectly straight line down the road slowly falling over.

[saltmine]

That 1954 Victoria Bergmeister intrigued me. I recall back in the 1960's the Japanese built a series of motorcycles that copied it, and the BMW boxer twin. The Marusho Lilac and the Marusho Sport were manufactured in Japan, or should I say copied there. They were available in various sizes, and configurations. Fortunately, they didn't use multiple chains for power transmission...most Marushos were shaft drive. Lucky me, I almost bought a 500 Sport, new. But, at the time, I was as poor as a church mouse, and couldn't get a co-signer for a loan. Just as well. From what I've heard, most Marusho Lilacs and Sports died before the loans were paid off anyway. Dealer support was almost non-existant and all parts had to come from Japan..

A friend used to have a Vincent Rapide. He delighted in lending it to people and watched as they tried to start it. If they managed to get it running, they would immediately come back, white as a ghost, and swear they'd never ask to borrow his bike again. I rode it numerous times, and I truly believe I saw God a couple of times.

Joseph Lucas (The Prince of Darkness) put me off Brit motorcycles for a long time. Nothing like sailing along down the road on a moonless night and have the Ziener diode (Lucas voltage regulator) vibrate loose. Without the diode to sink the excess current, all of the lights on the bike instantly turned into an English version of flashbulbs...And there you are...60mph, purple after-images, and complete darkness....Gad, those old bikes were fun..

[aostling]

Thanks for the interesting pics. Any Harley's? Any old Harley's without puddles under them?

I don't recall seeing a Harley. Here is a 1918 Indian as a consolation prize:





Even older is this 1911 New Hudson, with belt drive:






Next to the New Hudson is this 1954 Velocette Valiant. At 200cc it must be the smallest shaft-drive boxer twin ever made.





This photo of the 1890 Barnes American treadle lathe is fuzzy -- the camera focused on the generator (or compressor?) on the floor behind it.

[saltmine]

So, that's what apprentices were for, eh, Allan? Yeah, I noticed the tractor seat behind the second set of cranks...OK, young man, get to pedalling.


BTW, the 1954 Velocette Valiant wasn't the smallest shaft drive motorcycle made. Marusho produced a 125cc flat twin back in the 1960's.

[willmac]

The Velocette Valiant was not the smallest flat twin made by Velocette. Take a look at the Velocette LE (Little Engine) at 150 cc. There used to be quite a few of these about in UK, originally designed as a clean quiet commuter they were adopted by some police forces. Bit of a problem - they were so quiet, you could not hear them coming. However performnce bikes they were not. They were also a bit expnsive compared to other cheap commuter bilkes. They were an interesting design - fully enclosed, pressed steel frame, water cooled shaft drive etc.

[Rustybolt]

Thank you, Alan.
I would like to see the Munro Special up close and personal one day.
I remember reading about him in Hot Rod magazine back in the late fifties or early sixties. I've always been impressed with people that can do things others think is impossible.