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View Full Version : Why are people such JERKS (part 2)



PeteF
12-02-2010, 07:16 PM
A few days ago we heard or the frustrations of a seller dealing with buyers. I thought I'd now present the other side of the coin, because to be quite honest I'm getting a bit POed.

In the past week alone I have contacted people/companies by email/telephone message/on-line form, with cash in my hand more than willing to buy. How many? A total of 5 motor vehicles, 2 milling machines, a surface grinder, and a relatively expensive piece of software (clearly I only wanted to buy one example of each). That's just THIS week. You'd think at that rate my front yard would look like Wal-mart's parking lot and I'd have enough machinery to start a small factory. But I don't. Why? Well anyone care to guess how many of these sellers actually returned the phone calls/emails/etc

....


....


....

ONE! And he completely lied about the vehicle he had for sale. At first I thought he was mistaken, but no, turns out to be a sham.

So that's looking at things from the other perspective. I'd love to say this is an isolated coincidence, but I think I can honestly say that the likelihood of a company returning an enquiry message if they can't deal with it immediately would genuinely be around 50-60% here in Australia. Literally. I guess they are all too busy whinging about how tough things are! :mad:

squirrel
12-02-2010, 07:27 PM
What did your queries exactly state?

PeteF
12-02-2010, 08:30 PM
What did your queries exactly state?

Well it varied depending on the goods, the surface grinder was POA so I asked what the price was, some of the cars (well actually what you guys would call "trucks") I asked if I could arrange a time to come and look at them. At the end of the day it really doesn't matter what I asked, they all required a response, even if that "requirement" was simply the courtesy to say "sorry I've changed my mind/already sold it/don't like the the sound of your name/have heard you're a trouble maker" ;)

MichaelP
12-02-2010, 08:34 PM
As far as I can see, it became almost a norm. I'm not surprised any more.:(

oldtiffie
12-02-2010, 08:44 PM
P'raps its a "Sydney thing".

squirrel
12-02-2010, 08:50 PM
As far as I can see, it became almost a norm. I'm not surprised any more.:(
That's pretty true, but don't expect alot from email.
Did they post a telephone number?

The number one rule of thumb when selling on the internet is to not waist your time with the volley of emails from tire kickers asking questions like what color is it and if you have the part that is not shown in the photo. When a customer calls we have a confirmed sale 85% of the time, email people turn into a sale less then 5% of a time so why consume resources for a 5% return. Its better to focus on the well qualified buyer and make their buying experience perfect.

Your Old Dog
12-02-2010, 08:54 PM
P'raps its a "Sydney thing".

Nah, In my quest to purchase a Leica M9 along with a 35mm f2 asph lens and a 75mm f2 asph lens along with a Canon 5D Mark II with 28-70mm f2.8 USM lens I have nearly had to kiss people arse to get quotes.

I recently won an auction for a Canon 50mm f 0.95 lens with Leica M mount for $2370 and still have nor received it or heard from the dealer yet he has rave reviews on ebay?

Considering how crappy the economy is supposed to be I don't see many merchants willing to do business when staring green in the face. It's getting old.

squirrel
12-02-2010, 08:58 PM
I recently won an auction for a Canon 50mm f 0.95 lens with Leica M mount for $2370 and still have nor received it or heard from the dealer yet he has rave reviews on ebay?

Considering how crappy the economy is supposed to be I don't see many merchants willing to do business when staring green in the face. It's getting old.
All you have to do is file a claim with paypal or do a charge back on your credit card, so I don't see how you could have incurred any damage.

Greg Q
12-02-2010, 09:26 PM
P'raps its a "Sydney thing".

I don't know about that. I seem to have the same luck getting a quote out of anyone. I even leave charming and witty messages on answering machines.

My last was an attempt for a quote on a DRO scale. Took two weeks, and even that was due to prompting from their o'seas head office. By that time I could have had the part from the US office (for a third of the price) if they hadn't refused my business owing to territory constraints.

Before that it was a vain attempt to get a car out of a dealer. Took him four weeks to arrange a test drive, by which time I had purchased elsewhere. Get this: He was pissed off!:confused: WTFFFF?

I don't expect people to jump when I call, but I do expect some kind of timely response, even if its a "bugger off"

RussZHC
12-02-2010, 10:05 PM
Squirrel: not sure I agree with "waste of time", (a) how an email is more or less of a waste of time than a similar phone call (plus you don't have to think about time of day/hours), (b) by not "accepting" emails, is one not losing a potential customer/sale?

If a "missing part" is just that, don't ask or don't ask in an email?
Perfect example was locally a small turret attachment was being sold and the seller had no idea of either the attachment point (turned out to be a MT # 2) or the size of the holes in the actual turret, both of which are kind of important and an example where it would not matter either email or phone since it would require more checking and a return call or mail.

Quick survey of local Kijiji: puts including phone # at about 60% for both a specific item (snow blower) and the general list (tools and equipment) with one specifying ONLY email and another specifying "Skpye" only, the latter which I am guessing will lose what, 30% right off the bat not being knowing what that even is and, I am guessing here, another 30% to 40% who don't use Skype.

I did find it interesting during this little "survey", some ads were so basic it was almost not worth even the check from the listing to the actual ad, others were very, very precise in both description (most often copies from the Mfg site or scan from the manual) as well as past use, reason for selling and possible further cost (e.g. needs new belt).

I also think there is a major difference between buying and selling (D'uh?) and actively searching/wanting to buy.
If someone is actively searching for an item, isn't that an indication of ready $$$ and as a seller you go do a bit of extra?

Aside: what is it with "I'm selling for XYZ...", 'don't call or email me'? I don't know you and I am calling or mailing whatever the address or phone # is in the ad and if that is your contact info, WTF else am I supposed to do?

It made the paper here about a year ago that people were going wanting for home remodeling work that they wanted done because they could not get anyone to contact them back...IF it is getting better financially out there, I doubt it is that good!

PeteF
12-02-2010, 10:18 PM
That's pretty true, but don't expect alot from email.
Did they post a telephone number?

The number one rule of thumb when selling on the internet is to not waist your time with the volley of emails from tire kickers asking questions like what color is it and if you have the part that is not shown in the photo. When a customer calls we have a confirmed sale 85% of the time, email people turn into a sale less then 5% of a time so why consume resources for a 5% return. Its better to focus on the well qualified buyer and make their buying experience perfect.

Mate I hope you're joking :confused: My number one rule of thumb is to not offer a form of communication you don't intend attending. Don't like emails and think they're a "waste of time", that's your business (just don't expect mine) so don't publish an email address. I don't expect people to hover over their email accounts like a seagull waiting for a dropped chip, but I think if somebody is offering that as the PRIMARY point of contact, a few days is a reasonable time to expect an answer to a question like "can I arrange a time to view your car?"

Ken_Shea
12-02-2010, 10:26 PM
I'm a stickler for answering email, no matter!
My business is internet sales and there are lots of emails.

It's taking care of business and how I'd like to be treated, that's the bottom line.

Have likely asked my share of stupid questions via email myself.

Bob Farr
12-02-2010, 10:34 PM
*** Nah, In my quest to purchase a Leica M9 along with a 35mm f2 asph lens and a 75mm f2 asph lens along with *** a Canon 50mm f 0.95 lens with Leica M mount *** It's getting old.

That's a serious bit of kit YOD, I'm jealous! Sure miss my old beat up M4P/Leicavit/35mm-f1.4 combo.

I buy more than sell and I agree with the OP's frustrations. Especially if you posted that damn FS ad, expect to be contacted! I sometimes think that a seller will make an initial post of a CL ad just to guage interest as a way of figuring out a price.

Bob

PeteF
12-02-2010, 11:07 PM
Well as we all like "happy endings" ... no not the type you get for 5 bucks in Bangkok, it looks like I may have got the little surface grinder and mill. Mind you they haven't called me back so I can arrange transferring money to their account, so I guess it's not over yet! The "truck" however is still a work in progress. I'm seriously thinking about simply going to a dealer and forking out the extra couple of grand just to minimise my tosser exposure.

Ok the software I may not hear anything else on ... in my enquiry I may have included the question, "BTW why is this identical product almost 50% more here in Australia than it's being sold for in the US?" :D

wbleeker
12-03-2010, 12:32 AM
When I ordered my Tormach recently I contacted by email, three freight forwarders. IJS Global responded almost instantly and I had the quote the next day. The other two did not reply to my email at all in fact the machine arrives in Sydney next Tuesday and they still haven't replied?
Will

PeteF
12-03-2010, 01:10 AM
When I ordered my Tormach recently ...

I hate you ... well unless I get an invite around to play with the new toy :D

The saga continues, I managed to get hold of one of the guys selling a truck. He told me he was absolutely desperate to sell it and would accept thousands off his asking price if I would make an offer, his wife was pregnant, he HAD to sell it NOW, blah blah blah. I mentioned to him that I'd actually left a message for him asking if I could come over last weekend and buy it. His reply? "Oh sorry mate, but I've been a bit busy, I guess I should have got back to you, sorry 'bout that". FFS!!! :rolleyes:

mike4
12-03-2010, 02:27 AM
P'raps its a "Sydney thing".

Its everywhere ,i have a problem with the rims on one of my service vehicles . one has cracked along a weld , as I rely on this vehicle for long distance runs .1000klms round trip typical, I have been searching for replacements for all six rims .

The makers of the set which is currently in use couldnt care less , I finally located an Australian maker who gave me the specs and the number of their local retailer , problem is the retailer hasnt got back to me .
What is it with retailers ,this is a $2000 to $3000 sale gauranteed , and they cant even get off their backsides and give me a price and delivery time frame.

I think that most only want to whinge and moan how terrible everything is ,what a terrible downturn and all the other dribble .

I am currently working 7days a week up to 18+ hours a day with about 1000 kilometers a day to get to site and return every second day .

Michael

Circlip
12-03-2010, 04:42 AM
"BTW why is this identical product almost 50% more here in Australia than it's being sold for in the US?"

Cos there's a bigger market to wind up in the US:D

Regards Ian.

Liger Zero
12-03-2010, 06:21 AM
I was looking to acquire an IPAQ PDA for a project. Found two on Craigslist.

Emailed and emailed and emailed. Zero response.

Price on one of them dropped $20 the next week.

Again, I kept emailing about the item as there was no other contact information.

Next week the price dropped another 10.

Decided to use my business email rather than my personal "hotmail" email... INSTANT response. I mentioned to the buyer that I had tried to contact him with my hotmail address... he responded "oh so you're that asshole who kept spamming me. I don't do business with hotmail accounts."


Asshole?! :confused:

I found one on ebay, a fair bit more expensive but at least I'm not an asshole to that buyer. ;)

Evan
12-03-2010, 06:58 AM
"BTW why is this identical product almost 50% more here in Australia than it's being sold for in the US?"


Shipping...............

cijuanni
12-03-2010, 12:41 PM
I recently put an Wanted ad on CL for a 40' storage container.
A guy responds by email, tells me he has one in the same fairly remote small town I am in.

Great I would like to come look at it.

Well turns out this guy wants an CL penpal or something. Several emails, attempts to more to the phone go nowhere.
He just wants to send me another email.
I don't want emails, I want a container.

I give up. Why did he answer a wanted ad if he didn't want to even show it, let alone sell it?

Most people are goofy/nuts.

aboard_epsilon
12-03-2010, 01:04 PM
if you think you have trouble

You should try giving something away on those yahoo freecycle groups .

First you get the message "i will have it" from about ten people

You send them back a massage with your phone number within Min's of receiving their email ..

About three of the people respond 24 hours later.,saying they will phone you up..and never do .

2 people keep sending you emails ..asking if you've still got it...and i just keep sending them emails with my phone number on to arrange a time for pick up...with no replies until 24 hours later.

So the first one out of them to actually phone up and get here first gets it in the end ..

Some say they they are coming at such and such a time ..and don't ..then when asked where they where ..they don't answer the emails .ever

Then the ones that emailed first start complaining...that they had a right to it ..

This happens every single time ..puts you off even offering anything ..its more trouble than its worth .

sometimes i just leave it hidden in the garden ..and tell them where it is ...because they are hopeless with meeting the time..........it disappears..so they have had it ..and i don't get any thank you what so ever from them.

Would be a lot easier to give it away on ebay for 0.01 .

all the best.markj

MichaelP
12-03-2010, 01:12 PM
Shipping...............

For a piece of software? :)

wsb
12-03-2010, 01:36 PM
Giving stuff away is hard to do. I put a sofa out front and marke it FREE.
Nothing happened for a week so I marked it $50 and it was stolen the next day.

Bill

ckelloug
12-03-2010, 03:28 PM
Liger,

Hotmail is not regarded highly in some circles due to their horrendous spam problems years ago. I've seen some companies that drop e-mail from hotmail and yahoo at the firewall without even sending a failure notification. I think it's not good business but you'll get a lot farther with serious commercial suppliers if your e-mail comes from a professional looking domain name rather than a freebie mail account. I suspect that I have even have problems with some suppliers using the mail account at my cable modem provider although I haven't confirmed it.

Another past problem in e-mail was that some companies dropped e-mail at the firewall from accounts whose IP addresses are in the dialup pools. This sucked for linux people who had their own mail servers.

For reliable e-mail service in the modern era, you're best to be at a domain that doesn't give e-mail addresses to the public and with an IP address in a CIDR block that isn't a subdivision of a block owned by an ISP that spams.

--Cameron

Liger Zero
12-03-2010, 03:37 PM
Liger,

Hotmail is not regarded highly in some circles due to their horrendous spam problems years ago. I've seen some companies that drop e-mail from hotmail and yahoo at the firewall without even sending a failure notification. I think it's not good business but you'll get a lot farther with serious commercial suppliers if your e-mail comes from a professional looking domain name rather than a freebie mail account. I suspect that I have even have problems with some suppliers using the mail account at my cable modem provider although I haven't confirmed it.

Another past problem in e-mail was that some companies dropped e-mail at the firewall from accounts whose IP addresses are in the dialup pools. This sucked for linux people who had their own mail servers.

For reliable e-mail service in the modern era, you're best to be at a domain that doesn't give e-mail addresses to the public and with an IP address in a CIDR block that isn't a subdivision of a block owned by an ISP that spams.

--Cameron



This is similar to the conclusion I came to as well. Lesson learned.

Thanks for breaking it down further though.

What makes this "people are jerks" worthy is the seller called me an asshole over the phone. Way to make friends and close sales... jerk. :p

PeteF
12-03-2010, 04:36 PM
For a piece of software? :)

Yes you beat me to it. I had factored the 20 bucks postage into the equation though :rolleyes:

Mind you I haven't yet been called an asshole for wanting to buy something ... then again it is early in the day :p

Liger Zero
12-03-2010, 04:52 PM
Mind you I haven't yet been called an asshole for wanting to buy something ... then again it is early in the day :p

Call me up and try to buy my new grinder. Go on I DARE you. :D

wbleeker
12-03-2010, 06:24 PM
I find using my company name in correspondence helps with getting service as well. The suppliers might think they are onto a bigger fish?
You're welcome to come and have a look at the Tormach when it gets here Pete, its between NZ and Melbourne at the moment, running two days late, I think the Kiwi's are filling the boat up. I bought Kiwi tomatoes here a couple of weeks ago?
Will

Greg Q
12-03-2010, 06:31 PM
I find using my company name in correspondence helps with getting service as well.
Will

Now why didn't I think of that?

Greg Q
Murder, Inc.

PeteF
12-04-2010, 01:02 AM
I find using my company name in correspondence helps with getting service as well. The suppliers might think they are onto a bigger fish?
You're welcome to come and have a look at the Tormach when it gets here Pete, its between NZ and Melbourne at the moment, running two days late, I think the Kiwi's are filling the boat up. I bought Kiwi tomatoes here a couple of weeks ago?
Will

Will, I'd seriously like to take you up on that offer when you have the machine going. I enquired about a KX3 from the factory last month, but in all honestly can't see it happening. I'd offer to give you a hand for a day to put it together but I've just seen where you live so could be a bit difficult logistically. Mind you I have to drive down to "Big W" tomorrow to look at a truck, as I live north of Sydney it's a big day out for me :eek:

Let's hope you haven't used the same freight company GregQ, RC, and a few others here have used to get some straight edge castings out from the US. We're now wondering if the freighters are going to charge us extra for ageing the castings!!

I can imagine using a company name may help the situation, so may get creative with some names and see if that helps. Mind you I probably won't be as cheeky as the guy who gave the rubber cheque to my mate's business and signed it "A. Lemon".

It's a pretty sad state of affairs when we need to invent a business name in order for a seller to be interested in even replying. Times must be tough :rolleyes:

Arcane
12-04-2010, 02:12 AM
Speaking of CL and buyers and sellers...http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2010/08/31/thief-nabbed-after-man-buys-his-stolen-phone-off-craigslist/ :D

wbleeker
12-04-2010, 02:38 AM
Pete, anytime you are around feel free to come and have a look. IJS Global quoted me 24 to 28 days total to get my mill here, it left LA on the 13th of November and should arrive in Sydney on the 9th and then around a week for clearance etc as well as delivery to my shed, I may pick it up in Sydney myself though and hurry it up a bit.
Will

philbur
12-04-2010, 04:31 AM
Made me smile.:D Thanks Bill.

Phil:)


Giving stuff away is hard to do. I put a sofa out front and marke it FREE.
Nothing happened for a week so I marked it $50 and it was stolen the next day.

Bill

.RC.
12-04-2010, 04:35 AM
Pete should just give his money to me and not worry about any of this...

Evan
12-04-2010, 08:10 AM
Yes you beat me to it. I had factored the 20 bucks postage into the equation though

[cue Foghorn Leghorn]

It was a joke son, a joke.

PeteF
12-04-2010, 04:12 PM
Joke away Evan, but that is typically the reason given! A 30-40, maybe even 50% premium on a lot of products here compared to a retailer in the US is certainly not unusual. When asked asked about it the suppliers will typically cite "freight costs" as the reason for bending customers over. I'm not sure how they thought I was going to get it over here, teletransporter? :rolleyes:

Incidentally the reason for the "vent" on the thread is because a lot of people here are also in some form of sales position, whether in their own business or somebody else's. While I can appreciate the position of sellers, as we can see there's some lessons to be considered on the other side of the coin too!

For those who think some enquires are a "waste of time" Consider this, many years ago I used to go into a BMW dealership to get parts for my little old 3 series. It was hardly a late model, even then, but I used to take good care of it. After a few visits I got to know the old salesman there and he would thereafter pester me to take an M5 (ie a VERY expensive car) for a test drive each time I went in. Eventually I asked him, "Why do you keep offering me this expensive car for the day? You know I have NO money and can't possibly afford to buy it". He replied, "Yes, but maybe one day you will have more money, and then you'll hopefully come back and buy something similar when that time comes". I've since moved to another city, but otherwise he was right, I'm not rich and never will be, but could buy an M5 if I REALLY wanted one. If I was still living in that city, it may not be an M5, but there's a very good chance I would buy a lesser vehicle from them. Similarly, a friend of mine used to go into the Porsche dealership to get parts for a car he was restoring. Same deal, he was broke but would always get "Hey come take our shiny new Porsche for a spin!". Many years later he doesn't own that Porsche, he owns the whole dealership!!!

You just never know who's really on the other end of that phone ... or hotmail account ;)

PeteF
12-04-2010, 04:36 PM
You just never know who's really on the other end of that phone ... or hotmail account ;)

On the other hand maybe another anecdote that isn't such a happy story may reinforce the point. 2 days ago a very good friend sold his house, it was quite an expensive house so he needed the agent to get it right. I saw clues that the agent (realtor) wasn't doing the right thing so offered to pretend to be an interested buyer. I rang the agent and asked a basic question about the property that pretty much everyone would ask. I found him rude, arrogant, and condescending. I reported back to my friend who immediately demanded another representative (therefore the representative lost a very handsome commission). But it gets worse. What he didn't know was that another friend of ours knows the owner of the (big) agency very well. Within a few days word of this "incident" got back to the owner. Last thing I hear the initial representative is either now, or about to be, looking for a new job!

You just never know!!