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View Full Version : OT: Airport security alternative...?



mickeyf
12-03-2010, 04:39 PM
I hope this is not too far OT, and if so I apologize, but it struck me as such a good example of "better living through technology" that I just had to share...


> > Israeli scientists have invented a great alternative to invasive personal body scanners at airports.
> >
> > The Israelis are close to deploying an airport security device that eliminates the privacy concerns that come with full-body scanners at most airports.
> >
> > It's a booth you can step into that will not X-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on you. They see this as a win-win for everyone, with none of this crap about racial profiling. It also would eliminate the costs of a long and expensive trial. Justice would be swift. Case closed!
> >
> > Picture this. You would be in the airport terminal and hear a muffled explosion. Shortly thereafter an announcement comes over the PA system . . . "Attention EL AL standby passengers ... we now have a seat available on flight number XXXX. Shalom! And have a pleasant flight.'

wierdscience
12-03-2010, 04:41 PM
Darn,I was just going to hire on as a T&A screener....uh,I mean TSA screener:D

macona
12-03-2010, 05:49 PM
Boy would that suck is someone slipped a bomb in your bag!

Evan
12-03-2010, 05:52 PM
They aren't looking for bombs or they wouldn't be seizing fingernail cutters. I say remove all the screening except for actual bomb screening. Then equip the aircraft with another little trap door beside the one for the oxygen masks. If a problem in the passenger compartment develops because somebody is waving a box cutter around then any one of the flight crew simply pushes a concealed button and the new trap door opens and dispenses a Bowie Knife to each of the passengers. Problem solved.

Your Old Dog
12-03-2010, 06:01 PM
I'd like to make comment but fear my pit bucket would grow by a few more. :(

KiddZimaHater
12-03-2010, 07:00 PM
The pat-downs, x-ray scanners, and morons working for TSA are a complete waste of time and money.
#1 - Cockpit doors have been reinforced, made bullet and blast-proof, and lock from the inside.
#2 - Pilots are now allowed to carry firearms.
#3 - If anyone tried to get funny on a flight these days, they would quickly be tackled by 5 or more passengers.
#4 - we need to quit being so blinded by political correctness, and actually profile people.

Again, the TSA is like every other Government entity.... A complete waste of time and money.

John Stevenson
12-03-2010, 07:05 PM
I think the prayer mat that is actually a land mine is long overdue..........

Weston Bye
12-03-2010, 07:13 PM
Don't know it the info presented in the Original Post is accurate, but it is amusing. I wonder how they set off the explosives. Would it ignite errant flatulence?


#3 - If anyone tried to get funny on a flight these days, they would quickly be tackled by 5 or more passengers.

I have resolved that were I to find myself in a situation like Flight 93, I am old enough that it wouldn't bother me to serve as a human shield for other younger, tougher men, to get close enough to subdue a terrorist.

danlb
12-03-2010, 08:40 PM
Just a few thoughts...

A bomb detonation chamber is not a bad idea. It would cut down on the simpler threats.

The 9-11 hijackers were successful because they convinced the pilots that the passengers would not be harmed if everyone co-operated. They could have had pencils at the necks of the flight attendants and done as well. Their real weapon was the faith of the crew in human decency.

The current TSA procedures are a joke. You don't prevent action with spot checks. Checking one in 10 means 9 get through. I've accidentally carried tear gas (CS) and pepper spray through the checkpoint. It's gotten through 3 times. twice it was detected and I had to fill out a form. I no longer carry it in my computer bag.

As said above, the reinforced cockpit combined with flight crew training makes it much more difficult to replicate 9-11 style attacks. I hope so anyway.

Dan

Black_Moons
12-03-2010, 08:46 PM
I heard another person recently fell (dead) outta the wheel wells of another aircraft.

I do hope he went through proper TSA screening before stowing away inside the landing gear. Heaven forbid he gets a knife in there and starts cutting hoses. Or a bomb. (Cough, Cough, Its all bull****, Cough)

x39
12-03-2010, 08:52 PM
I do hope he went through proper TSA screening before stowing away inside the landing gear.
I wouldn't be surprised if they screened the corpse after the fact.

Mad Scientist
12-03-2010, 08:56 PM
Don't know it the info presented in the Original Post is accurate,
No it is just a joke. But it sure would eliminate a lot of problems.:)

These scanners have nothing to do with improving your safety at an airport. Statistically you have less of a change of being killed by a terrorist then you do from your family doctor. If they were really concerned about terrorists why then is our southern border left virtually wide open.

I believe the real reason, besides providing a nice job for the former head of homeland security with the company that just happens to manufacture the scanners, is this is away of training people to give up their rights. You are to meekly submit to government groping or whatever else they deem necessary, you're simply being programed to obediently follow any and all orders and never ever think of questioning them.

ADGO_Racing
12-03-2010, 08:59 PM
No it is just a joke. But it sure would eliminate a lot of problems.:)

These scanners have nothing to do with improving your safety at an airport. Statistically you have less of a change of being killed by a terrorist then you do from your family doctor. If they were really concerned about terrorists why then is our southern border left virtually wide open.

I believe the real reason, besides providing a nice job for the former head of homeland security with the company that just happens to manufacture the scanners, is this is away of training people to give up their rights. You are to meekly submit to government groping or whatever else they deem necessary, you're simply being programed to obediently follow any and all orders and never ever think of questioning them.

Precisely!

bob_s
12-03-2010, 09:04 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they screened the corpse after the fact.

What?. I would think they would have to screen out the potentially solid bits from what they had to pick up with a mop and bucket.

darryl
12-03-2010, 09:28 PM
I like that idea. But keep the scanning too, just don't have it visible to anyone. It should complement the other device by detecting guns, then automatically turning on an induction heater. If the sap was carrying a gun, but no explosives, the hot gun would have him or her doing the hot heater hula- then probably getting shot in the foot as the bullets went off. Could be good entertainment for the legitimate passengers. :)

38_Cal
12-03-2010, 09:53 PM
I like that idea. But keep the scanning too, just don't have it visible to anyone. It should complement the other device by detecting guns, then automatically turning on an induction heater. If the sap was carrying a gun, but no explosives, the hot gun would have him or her doing the hot heater hula- then probably getting shot in the foot as the bullets went off. Could be good entertainment for the legitimate passengers. :)

I can't resist...if he's carrying his gun in his skivvies, he might go off half-cocked! :rolleyes: :D

David

mike4
12-03-2010, 09:56 PM
Is that why the lady in the wheel chair was selected and groped ?

macona
12-03-2010, 09:56 PM
Bet he has Ball ammo.

x39
12-03-2010, 10:22 PM
What?. I would think they would have to screen out the potentially solid bits from what they had to pick up with a mop and bucket.
They're determined.

Mike Burdick
12-03-2010, 10:31 PM
Archie Bunker's solution...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68xSoecsoq0

gary350
12-03-2010, 10:35 PM
I think they should have 2 airplanes for every flight. All the people that want to play it safe and be screened fly on one airplane. All the people that bitch and complain and don't want to be screened don't have to be because they get to fly on the unsafe airplane.

I like the rules I want to be safe. I will go through the line naked if an attractive lady searchs me. I don't want any queer guys looking at me naked.

The complainers are just a bunch of spoiled whinny baby whimps that are accustom to having it easy.

mike4
12-03-2010, 10:49 PM
I think they should have 2 airplanes for every flight. All the people that want to play it safe and be screened fly on one airplane. All the people that bitch and complain and don't want to be screened don't have to be because they get to fly on the other airplane.

Where do you book to get on the second one ,I think that the screening is way out of hand and would be happy to fly on a plane not subject to that paranoia.

Michael

doctor demo
12-03-2010, 11:10 PM
I'm waiting to see how long it takes for this thread to deteriorate to the point where it gets locked.:)
I know if I share My thoughts all the tree hugers from mambie pambie land would get upset and call Me a profile-er or gun nut or.....:D

Steve

Evan
12-04-2010, 12:02 AM
The idea that they don't profile is stupidly ridiculous. It may not be official policy for political reasons but how do you stop an agent from doing it anyway? It's one of those "nudge nudge, wink wink" things. What a crock it all is.

mike4
12-04-2010, 12:14 AM
The idea that they don't profile is stupidly ridiculous. It may not be official policy for political reasons but how do you stop an agent from doing it anyway? It's one of those "nudge nudge, wink wink" things. What a crock it all is.

A politicians profile wouldnt be any use as they would all be the same ,take an empty vessel fill it full of s**t and shake ,you end up with some thing that doesnt know its head from its a##e as the same stuff comes out of either end.
As you all may gather from this I have no time for any politicians .

Michael

davidwdyer
12-04-2010, 06:01 AM
The TSA claims that they have confiscated thousands of "dangerous" items.

BUT, have they actually stopped ONE hijacking or terrorist attempt? None that I have heard of. All this scanning and groping with what result?

beanbag
12-04-2010, 06:20 AM
The TSA claims that they have confiscated thousands of "dangerous" items.

BUT, have they actually stopped ONE hijacking or terrorist attempt? None that I have heard of. All this scanning and groping with what result?

I think it's the same as when they threaten that they're going to have a Breath-a-lizer at the high school prom, and then they don't actually have one. Deterrent, so to speak.

Weston Bye
12-04-2010, 07:03 AM
Security theater, all for show, to make it appear to the general population, the great unwashed, that the government is doing something, feckless though it may be.

Government is a blunt object. It responds badly to immediate situations and carries on with massive inertia long after the nature of the threat has passed or changed. The best one can hope for is that the response is approximately right.

Fortunately, the TSA and other government efforts have been just slightly more competent than recent terrorist attempts. (with the help of observant and courageous citizens)

So far.

Evan
12-04-2010, 08:01 AM
Since 911 there has been a very distinct change in attitude among the general population. It isn't just in the US either. Canada played a major role in the immediate aftermath as every plane in the sky bound for the US ended up landing in Canada.

The attitude change is that people are no longer inclined to stand by while shlt happens. There have been many examples. One of the most recent was just in the last few weeks. A group of ordinary citizens standing outside the doors to a mall noticed a robbery going on at a jewelery store inside the mall visible through the doors. The thieves tried to make their escape through those doors and were tackled by the group outside. All but one did manage to make good their escape by using pepper spray but the one that didn't couldn't because he had been body checked into a concrete pillar. :D

He ratted out his partners and they were all arrested.

Other examples include a recent robbery of a convenience store which was observed by a man in the store who was confined to a wheel chair. Regardless, he managed to deck the thief from his chair which prompted others to aid in subduing the thief. In another incident in a similar robbery the cashier handed over the money. The moment his back was turned to run out he also handed him several blows to the head with a metal baseball bat. As he struggled to regain his senses and dragged himself out to the street the owner followed him and beat him senseless. The owner was not charged.

The RCMP have given up trying to warn citizens that they are putting themselves in danger and have started thanking them for their assistance instead.

JoeBean
12-04-2010, 09:12 AM
The scanners haven't found any explosives, but have found piles of drugs and other contraband. Some have noted that the US now has a shadow police force, not required to follow the same rules as regular forces, having very little training, and allowed to do warrantless searches, and they report whatever they find.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/04/01/airport.body.scanners/index.html?hpt=C1
The scans don't make you safer. They miss all kinds of things. Adam Savage from Mythbusters went through recently with 2 12" razorblades hidden on his person that were never detected. Many others have had similar experiences. And the "enhanced patdowns" are made to be extremely intrusive and uncomfortable to pressure people into having the scans. They don't truly increase security, and are no more effective than regular patdowns.

As already pointed out there are many logic fallacies inherent with the pretense that these scans make fliers safer and prevent bombings. For instance, if I were a terrorist wanting to disrupt travel, kill people, and generally "create terror", why not just bomb the long lines at airports where people are waiting to be screened? If the argument is, and I believe this to be true, that it would be extremely difficult to get a bomb in there in the first place, the. why the extra screening?

It's sad to say but as of right now the terrorists are winning. We westerners as a whole are cowardly and frightened, and WILLINGLY giving up all our liberties. They control a large part of our lives, both in our mental thoughts and worries, as well as all the indignities we suffer to "stay safe". The only ones of us benefitting from all of this are the corporations that make billions playing on our fears and the politicians who amass power doing the same.

Noam Chomsky has been predicting this for decades...

mike os
12-04-2010, 09:43 AM
While not an "ultimate solution" to the problem you can bet they have derterred and stopped any "simple" attacks...ie shove 10kg in a bag & walk on with it, general weapons, grenade type devices......

They will never be a 100% solution or deterrent to more determined and imaginative nutters, and it shows the lack of real dedication to the task that the problems so far have been relatively simple. Be glad these organisations are not run by inteligent, imaginative and truly creative people ( or that their backers will not allow them free reign) or we would be in a real mess.

jep24601
12-04-2010, 09:56 AM
.... Be glad these organisations are not run by inteligent, imaginative and truly creative people ( or that their backers will not allow them free reign) or we would be in a real mess.
Unfortunately the terrorist organisations have " inteligent, imaginative and truly creative people".

The recent bomb in a printer cartridge was only "discovered" by authorities after they were told about it by Saudi authorities. The British re-screened the package and came up with nothing. They opened the package and examined it's contents and came up with nothing. Only because they had been told that this was a bomb did they then start dissassembling the components to reveal that it was in fact a bomb.

The searches at the airport are welcome to me - I dont want to be on the plane that has the guy with the sausage bomb stuffed down his pants. I have to wonder if some of the complainers about personal privacy even take their clothes of at the doctor's office.

gary350
12-04-2010, 09:59 AM
The people that work in the top security area of Oak Ridge National Lab park their car walk to a building through a security check and take off all their clothes. They walk naked down a long hallway to and area where they put on clothes provided by their work while security guards watch. Next they take a bus to another building where they spend 8 hours working. Armed security guards watching them ever step them take. These people don't complain they do it every day.

Lots of spoiled whinny baby whips just looking for an excuse to complain. I say make security as safe as possible no matter what it takes if the complainers refuse to do it don't let them on the airplane. It is that simple you don't have to ride on the airplane. If you refuse to ride you loose your money no refund on tickets.

The real problem is like this. If we had all grown up and become accustom to extremely strict security much much stricter than we have now then......... security was relaxed to what we now have no one would be complaining.

jkilroy
12-04-2010, 10:11 AM
Hey Gary,

People at Oak Ridge have a choice, they can take a different job, and people don't have to fly. But when did the 4th amendment get repealed? When did buying a ticket equate to probable cause? Are you dim enough to really believe that the goverment will stop at this? Next you will be scanned at the train station, they will build them into busses, then at football games, schools, public buildings, when does *freedom* become NOT free? Eventually do you just have to stay at home in order to not get scanned? Is this your idea of freedom? When do we start having to carry papers for a regular daily commute?

Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Evan
12-04-2010, 10:15 AM
some quotes:




"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain."


"There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live—did live, from habit that became instinct—in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized."

"The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power."





WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

Black_Moons
12-04-2010, 10:16 AM
Gary: Since when is flying a 'top security' matter?
How would you like to have a full security check just to get into your own car? or onto the bus? Or to walk down the street? More people die in thier own car then on aircraft!

And why don't terrorists attack trains, night clubs, Operas, sporting events, and every other place where you can easily attack 200+ people with a single bomb?

I'll tell ya why: there are no terrorists, Except the goverment. Stop listening to faux news. Even back BEFORE security at the airport, you where less likey to die on an aircraft then driving your car. Less likey to die on an aircraft then killed by your WIFE! Do you strip search your wife every morning to make sure shes not carrying a bomb, or knife from the kitchen? Maybe you should!

Do you honestly think terrorists just suddenly multiplyed 20 fold in the past few years? Yea, theres some nutters out there, But there allways has and allways will be, Don't let a few people destory your way of life.

jep24601
12-04-2010, 10:27 AM
....And why don't terrorists attack trains, night clubs, Operas, sporting events, and every other place where you can easily attack 200+ people with a single bomb?

I'll tell ya why: there are no terrorists, Except the goverment. Stop listening to faux news.....

Er, I think someone hasn't been paying attention to the news!!!!

Probably time to lock this one.

J Tiers
12-04-2010, 10:30 AM
Osama bin Laden has WON. BIGTIME

he said that "the Americans will create their own hell", and we are doing it as fast as we can.

We are spending so much money and time at the process of becoming a regimented Stalinist state, that we may go broke before we succeed in becoming another N Korea.

Personally, I think the US government should simply execute all the law abiding citizens.

1) They are not acting "normally", and so are suspect.

2) In order to save freedom and democracy, we have to kill it.


Scans, and government encouraged perversions (pat-downs by presumed gropers who are enjoying themselves) at the airport are just the beginning.... Wait till that is required at the bank, the mall, the store.......

it's essentially BS. All of it. The security very likely has NEVER ONCE caught any terrorist plotters.

But it IS very neatly getting people used to:

a) being regarded as a criminal until proven otherwise.

b) the idea that the government can treat people like so much cattle, with no more rights than cattle at the stockyard, under a doctrine of "greater good" justifying "minor inconvenience".

The only ones caught so far have been caught by various infiltration methods, or are "plots" essentially created by the federal agents through various encouragement and entrapment means. if the gov provides the "bomb", the vehicle, etc, etc, what else can you call it?

I presume that these "plots" are uncovered specifically for the purpose of justifying another form of search, groping, government intrusion, etc, in yet another "public setting".

it would be far more effective, and is in fact essential, to take care of the crime problem in certain areas and demographic groups.

I presume that NOT doing that is simply part of the plan to make the cattle (citizens) so uneasy and nervous that they will accept ANY steps and measures, laws, mistreatment or oppression if only it can be pictured as "increasing security".

This is now totally outside the forum rules.

And I don't give a rip about that fact. it needs to be said. It needs to be said LOUDER. It needs to be said more often.

ADGO_Racing
12-04-2010, 12:42 PM
Osama bin Laden has WON. BIGTIME

he said that "the Americans will create their own hell", and we are doing it as fast as we can.

We are spending so much money and time at the process of becoming a regimented Stalinist state, that we may go broke before we succeed in becoming another N Korea.

Personally, I think the US government should simply execute all the law abiding citizens.

1) They are not acting "normally", and so are suspect.

2) In order to save freedom and democracy, we have to kill it.


Scans, and government encouraged perversions (pat-downs by presumed gropers who are enjoying themselves) at the airport are just the beginning.... Wait till that is required at the bank, the mall, the store.......

it's essentially BS. All of it. The security very likely has NEVER ONCE caught any terrorist plotters.

But it IS very neatly getting people used to:

a) being regarded as a criminal until proven otherwise.

b) the idea that the government can treat people like so much cattle, with no more rights than cattle at the stockyard, under a doctrine of "greater good" justifying "minor inconvenience".

The only ones caught so far have been caught by various infiltration methods, or are "plots" essentially created by the federal agents through various encouragement and entrapment means. if the gov provides the "bomb", the vehicle, etc, etc, what else can you call it?

I presume that these "plots" are uncovered specifically for the purpose of justifying another form of search, groping, government intrusion, etc, in yet another "public setting".

it would be far more effective, and is in fact essential, to take care of the crime problem in certain areas and demographic groups.

I presume that NOT doing that is simply part of the plan to make the cattle (citizens) so uneasy and nervous that they will accept ANY steps and measures, laws, mistreatment or oppression if only it can be pictured as "increasing security".

This is now totally outside the forum rules.

And I don't give a rip about that fact. it needs to be said. It needs to be said LOUDER. It needs to be said more often.

Thanks JT. I couldn't have said it better! We really do need a change in this country, a change for the better, it is about time!

Mad Scientist
12-04-2010, 12:46 PM
But it IS very neatly getting people used to:

a) being regarded as a criminal until proven otherwise.

b) the idea that the government can treat people like so much cattle, with no more rights than cattle at the stockyard, under a doctrine of "greater good" justifying "minor inconvenience".

The only ones caught so far have been caught by various infiltration methods, or are "plots" essentially created by the federal agents through various encouragement and entrapment means.


it needs to be said. It needs to be said LOUDER. It needs to be said more often.


What heresy is this? :eek: Are you suggesting we take off our rose colored glasses and actually look at what is happening? :D

Spandau
12-04-2010, 12:49 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XCCzcMw9CYM/TO1Hf7qrLWI/AAAAAAAALAM/jn6zhbbJUUM/s1600/tsa-osama.png

SDL
12-04-2010, 12:52 PM
Gary:

And why don't terrorists attack trains, night clubs, Operas, sporting events, and every other place where you can easily attack 200+ people with a single bomb?
.

They do 50+ dead on the tube in London, plots foiled for nightclubs etc etc

Steve Larner

ADGO_Racing
12-04-2010, 12:53 PM
I don't want any queer guys looking at me naked.




Lots of spoiled whinny baby whips just looking for an excuse to complain. I say make security as safe as possible no matter what it takes if the complainers refuse to do it don't let them on the airplane. It is that simple you don't have to ride on the airplane. If you refuse to ride you loose your money no refund on tickets.

The real problem is like this. If we had all grown up and become accustom to extremely strict security much much stricter than we have now then......... security was relaxed to what we now have no one would be complaining.

Whinny Cry Baby Wimp says what????:confused:

That is the equivalent statement to the BS statement; "If you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"

People like you and them are who have eroded our rights!

I'll gladly take my chances with the terrorists riding planes. I am a big guy, healthy and have a brain. I am willing to, die trying. I for one am NOT going to go willingly, and sitting in my seat crying.