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Liger Zero
12-04-2010, 06:08 PM
I love the old game Homeworld II... Its the continuing saga of MORMONS IN SPAAAAAAAAAAACEE!!!!!!!... which would be the first game.
Second game involves protecting the new Homeworld from A Threat From Beyond and unraveling the Mysteries Of The Universe.

Anyway. Old game is old. 2001-2003 if I remember correctly. I'm playing along, the computer is accessing the disc when I hear a most... distressing sound. CLACK followed by various mechanical sounds followed by everything crashing.

Turn off the computer, open the drive manually and find the CD has fractured into thirds.


...needless to say it's unplayable at this point. :D :(


So what happened? I've played old CD games before and this hasn't happened. I've got some Very Old Music CDs from Back In The Day that have not ruptured...

Baffling... :confused:

Toolguy
12-04-2010, 06:20 PM
Maybe the 3 wives had enough and decided to split.

datsun280zxt
12-04-2010, 06:20 PM
Many times cds and dvds get taken out of the case improperly and they will stress crack near the center. If you have other ones that have lots of use...look carefully at the centers...you may be surprised.

Carld
12-04-2010, 06:22 PM
Liger, how many times have I told you, don't smack it with a hammer when you lose a game.:eek:

Liger Zero
12-04-2010, 06:26 PM
Liger, how many times have I told you, don't smack it with a hammer when you lose a game.:eek:


But I was using the Brass Hammer... :o





Many times cds and dvds get taken out of the case improperly and they will stress crack near the center. If you have other ones that have lots of use...look carefully at the centers...you may be surprised.



Ya know... it's kind of obvious now that I think about it... :rolleyes: Makes sense too, this game gets played Quite Often.

New-in-box copy from Amazon is on it's way. I suppose I wait 3 days for shipping.

whitis
12-04-2010, 06:31 PM
If you mishandle (bend) a disc badly, you can get a radial crack. Netflix discs seem to end up with a full radius crack or split in two after an average of perhaps 30 trips through the mail. Now what happens to a disk with a crack, even a tiny one, if you spin it at high speed? The crack spreads, then there is nothing to hold the disc together against the centrifugal force. The disk spreads out, which causes other cracks and/or causes it to catch on the surrounding wall.

Some of the faster drives top out at over 10,000RPM. It doesn't take much of a defect or damage to the disc to go catastrophic.

Basically, you just had the rough equivalent of a grinding wheel accident.

Liger Zero
12-04-2010, 06:38 PM
Question: If I make a circular disc out of some kind of adhesive backed plastic film and stick it to the TOP of the disc, could I perhaps extend the life of my discs? Or at least prevent them from failing in the drive...?

oldtiffie
12-04-2010, 06:40 PM
I seem to recall that not so long ago there seemed to be quite a few "exploding" CD's and DVD's in drives - quite a lot of discussion too!

It seemed that the consensus was that it was or may have been caused by poor quality/cheap discs that were not rated for or able to stand the increasing speeds or CD/DVD drives and processors.

I leave my drives on the default speed for "read" but I choke/throttle the speed back for "write" - I have never had a disc explode and I get few faults in the "write" process as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_shattering

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=exploding+cd+rom+drive&meta=&aq=7v&aqi=g3g-m1g-v6&aql=&oq=exploding+CD&gs_rfai=

RB211
12-04-2010, 07:42 PM
Don't leave your disks where direct sunlight can reach them either!

oldtiffie
12-04-2010, 08:35 PM
Thanks RB211.

Can that be read to mean "where the sun don't shine"?

Good advice.

I'm trying to envisage how I or anyone else would be able to read or write to 'em though!!

Liger Zero
12-04-2010, 08:42 PM
Thanks RB211.

Can that be read to mean "where the sun don't shine"?

Good advice.

I'm trying to envisage how I or anyone else would be able to read or write to 'em though!!


Extension cable. Do I have to tell you where to stick it?

Evan
12-04-2010, 09:08 PM
Download Nero Drive Speed. It allows you to slow down the maximum spin rpm as well as controlling the spin up and spin down rate. It has the benefit of allowing you to make the drive nearly silent too.

http://www.softpedia.com/get/CD-DVD-Tools/CD-DVD-Rip-Other-Tools/Nero-DriveSpeed.shtml

oldtiffie
12-04-2010, 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by oldtiffie
Thanks RB211.

Can that be read to mean "where the sun don't shine"?

Good advice.

I'm trying to envisage how I or anyone else would be able to read or write to 'em though!!

Extension cable. Do I have to tell you where to stick it?

Nope.

No problem sticking it in but keeping it in sure is.

Liger Zero
12-04-2010, 10:13 PM
Nope.

No problem sticking it in but keeping it in sure is.

Really, not what I heard. The bill collector refers to you as "that old tight-arse SOB..."

Don Young
12-04-2010, 10:13 PM
I recently received a manual on a new CDR which arrived in a sleeve, cardboard mailer, and manilla envelope. When opened, the disc had three major breaks almost separating it into parts. None of the breaks were radial. With a lot of force I could bend one of the parts U shaped on about a 2" radius without further cracking. Packaging showed no signs of damage and I cannot imagine how the disc was broken.

Liger Zero
12-04-2010, 10:17 PM
Discs are injection molded at very very high speed. They often have a nitrogen-pressure-boost on they injection system to slam the material into the molds.

I'm wondering if someone somewhere is using substandard materials and a shoddy process and flooding the market with substandard discs.... MY game failed due to wear, disc dates to 2002 and gets played OFTEN.

Reason I'm wondering now is a quick search of the interwubs shows that catastrophic disc-failure is fairly common all of a sudden.

fredf
12-04-2010, 10:38 PM
Question: If I make a circular disc out of some kind of adhesive backed plastic film and stick it to the TOP of the disc, could I perhaps extend the life of my discs? Or at least prevent them from failing in the drive...?

they make clear labels, you could stick one of them on . . . . some use to protect the disk as the data is on the label side . . .

Evan
12-04-2010, 10:49 PM
I'm wondering if someone somewhere is using substandard materials and a shoddy process and flooding the market with substandard discs....

It depends in part on how much recycled polycarbonate is in the mix. It also depends on the CD rom drive and how well the clamping mechanism centres the disc. It even depends on what data track is being accessed since the CD changes rpm depending on how far it is from centre. I also suspect it might depend on the type of paint used on the top side of the CD. Polycarbonate is very intolerant of many solvents. Isopropyl alcohol will cause it to craze before your eyes while ethanol does nothing.

dp
12-04-2010, 10:51 PM
Modern drives are capable of higher speeds than drives of old. Not that CDs are HS-rated. There's been a number of people who thought CDs would be great disks for Tesla turbines only to be surprised at the smallness of particles produced from CDs at > 10K rpm.

Evan
12-04-2010, 11:03 PM
I have seen many an exploded CD in customer's computers. The worst are the CDs included on the ouside of cereal boxes. Some of them explode into pieces no larger than your little fingernail. I have never actually heard one explode but I bet it sounds fairly dramatic.

randyc
12-04-2010, 11:15 PM
Since that incident didn't occur in my house, I'm mystified. (Had it occurred here, I would have known that the kids were shooting skeet in the house - AGAIN !)

whitis
12-04-2010, 11:23 PM
Drives are getting faster but the quality bar on low end discs keeps dropping. China, India, Malaysia, Taiwan, etc.

A page on media quality:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-media.htm
Some factories have turned out disks where more than 50% fail to burn and verify, let alone hold your data safe against bit rot over time.

Do not glue anything onto your discs, especially recordable CDs. This can cause the data layers to delaminate and can also cause balance problems.

ckelloug
12-04-2010, 11:53 PM
Might I suggest not using the disks and getting a copy of this: http://www.alcohol-soft.com/ which allows hard disk images of cd's to be mounted as cd drives in windows?

--Cameron

oldtiffie
12-05-2010, 12:00 AM
I am amazed this age of relatively cheap 500+GB external USB-driven SATA drives and 32 GB flash drives and solid-state external drives that people store vital stuff on CD/DVD disks - the more so of the owner it too much cost and not value-driven.

To rely on bootable CD/DVD disks and use them for critical data etc. storage or archive is too big a risk for me.

I do keep my new CD/DVD that I get with new applications etc. - but they only get used for re-installs if required after the initial installation. But therein is a problem as well as I have no idea as to the quality of those discs either.

If your bootable CD disc "explodes" or fails when you are using for a re-boot or recovery etc., you not only lose the disc plus the CD drive as well and if that disc is all you have for a re-boot etc. you really have a problem.

The advantage of a USB-driven "flash" or external HDD or solid state drive is that if it is recognised by the BIOS you should be safe - or at less risk.

I had thought of an external SATA USB-driven CD/DVD drive but forgot about it with the new thumb/flash 32GB drives.

mike os
12-05-2010, 05:20 AM
Old disk... plastics deteriorare & as explained cracks can propigate unexpectedly... coupled with newer faster drives...

This is not something I have ever had to deal with (other than replacing the drive units) & I suspect luck or the lack thereof has a fair part to play.

Re dvd/cd as backup....once writen & verified they cannot be destroyed by a virus or usually by dropping (occasionally) cheap as chips & easy to store ( always in a different building to the original source). If quality disks are used and stored correctly they are good for years>decades but like any backup system should be checked for integrity occasionally, as they can go tits up.

HDD on the other hand are suseptible to virus problems, controller problems, electrical faults & surges, physical & mechanical damage and failure, are a PITA to store "correctly" and may well not be compatible wiht next years interface.... so not a real solution there either.

I prefer to use both.. hdd mirror raid, with a network & usb external storage, all written in real time, and also write disks ( usually 2-3x for critical data like accounts) Netstore is in my shop, but still physically connected as wireless is too far and too slow)

gmatov
12-06-2010, 02:16 AM
25 years ago, CDs in juke boxes cracked radially, for no reason, unless you think that being under a flourescent light was enough. 15 years ago CDs shattered for no reason, unless you think that the makers had not got the formula right.

I have read many reports of discs shattering, 15 years ago. I haven't read any of discs doing so in the last 5 years or so.

Discs I have made from the 2X drives from more than 20 years ago are still readable, not cracked. I am not in a controlled climate.

The WORST thing you can do is lable the disc. That will DEFINITELY throw it out of balance. They DO spin at up to 10 thou rpm, and a microrogram is TONS at that speed, as to imbalance.

Cheers,

George