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Metalmelter
12-05-2010, 05:08 PM
Anyone ever see the heart penny? I'm wondering if someone could shed some light on how they are produced? I'm thinking stamped. I've never seen the machine that could do that although I imagine a die on a simple press could do it. Then... were would you get the die? I just have an idea to make something similar that's all. But not sure were to begin :confused:

Here's a link to show you what I mean:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Heart-Penny-12-Heart-Pennies-Shiny-Heart-Coins-/390261560266?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

Thanks!

gda
12-05-2010, 05:12 PM
They are punched on a press with a die.

dalee100
12-05-2010, 06:12 PM
Hi,

I made one in school and a Playboy Bunny head. The bunny had problems that I never got sorted. Wouldn't strip clean if I can remember back that far. But the heart worked quite well. We ran it in a 20 ton flywheel punch press. And sold both pieces for a Valentine's Day fund raiser.

dalee

gary350
12-05-2010, 06:20 PM
Dies like that are made with wire EDM these days. Very simple to make.

rockrat
12-05-2010, 06:20 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought defacing US currency was a no-no. Sure I have seen the machines where a person can "roll their own" with an imprint of the attraction that your at. But that seems hard to prosecute, what would they do? Hunt down every tourist that has ever done this?

Yet here is a ebay seller cutting these things up by the thousands. Multiple counts at one stop, cite 'em.

Is there a loophole to this law or does it seem as trivial as I think it is?

rock~

gary350
12-05-2010, 06:24 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought defacing US currency was a no-no. Sure I have seen the machines where a person can "roll their own" with an imprint of the attraction that your at. But that seems hard to prosecute, what would they do? Hunt down every tourist that has ever done this?

Yet here is a ebay seller cutting these things up by the thousands. Multiple counts at one stop, cite 'em.

Is there a loophole to this law or does it seem as trivial as I think it is?

rock~


It is only illegal to deface money if your doing it for some illegal purpose. You are taking money out of circulation and the government likes that.

ADGO_Racing
12-05-2010, 06:27 PM
Right now, I would think "defacing/destroying" money would be a good idea. Help bolster up the dollar....

The only truly victimless crime is tax fraud.

deltaenterprizes
12-05-2010, 06:31 PM
Pennies after 1984 are copper plated zinc. After being cut there will be a shiney silver part exposed.

macona
12-05-2010, 07:13 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought defacing US currency was a no-no. Sure I have seen the machines where a person can "roll their own" with an imprint of the attraction that your at. But that seems hard to prosecute, what would they do? Hunt down every tourist that has ever done this?

Yet here is a ebay seller cutting these things up by the thousands. Multiple counts at one stop, cite 'em.

Is there a loophole to this law or does it seem as trivial as I think it is?

rock~


Like Gary says, its only illegal if it is used in an attempt to defraud. Like changing the value of a bill.

Rustybolt
12-05-2010, 07:24 PM
They are stamped in a die , called appropriately enough a coining die.

TGTool
12-05-2010, 09:05 PM
The features on the faces of coins are formed by a coining die but not the heart or other through hole which would be a punch or alternate machining method such as EDM or water jet.

Al Messer
12-05-2010, 09:19 PM
Anyone ever see the heart penny? I'm wondering if someone could shed some light on how they are produced? I'm thinking stamped. I've never seen the machine that could do that although I imagine a die on a simple press could do it. Then... were would you get the die? I just have an idea to make something similar that's all. But not sure were to begin :confused:

Here's a link to show you what I mean:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Heart-Penny-12-Heart-Pennies-Shiny-Heart-Coins-/390261560266?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

Thanks!



Isn't this illegal---de-facing government property?

Al

Ken_Shea
12-05-2010, 09:29 PM
Al
See post #6

gvasale
12-05-2010, 09:30 PM
Local paper this week had a short article about "Obummer" pardoning someone for defacing coins/currency. Subject was about his first Presidential pardons.

Metalmelter
12-05-2010, 09:38 PM
Thanks for all the replies so far! So let me clear a little confusion up. As for it being illegal it's really not - as long as you are profiting from it. Those silly little "heart pennies" are sold for over $1 each and the government eyes that in a positive aspect.

I'm more interested in the "can it be done at home" realm since I'd like to try it just for fun and it would be something the girlfriend can give away in her grooming business as well. I need insight on the dies. I'll admit I'm not to well versed in that area but how hard can it be?? I'm not looking to make hearts but rather a cut out of a dog or pooch in a coin would work well. I think it can be done.;)

AD5MB
12-05-2010, 09:46 PM
the story I got...

long time ago the U.S. mint came out with a new nickel. just said V on it.

a New York jeweler got a batch of them. reeded the edges ( the knurling on the edge ), gold plated them and sent a guy out to spend them.

the guy would buy a 5 cent cigar and hand the clerk the reeded gold plated nickel. the clerk would assume the nickel was a new 5$ gold coin and give the guy $4.95 change.

When the guy was caught, he got off on a technicality. the crime he was accused of committing was "uttering false currency". he was mute. he did not ask for change, it was freely given on the basis of an assumption.

the nickel spending individuals name was Joshua. this is allegedly the origin of the term "you are Joshing me"


The original 1883 issue lacked the word "cents" on the reverse. Since the nickels were the same size as five-dollar gold pieces, some counterfeiters plated them with gold and attempted to pass them off as such. According to legend, a deaf person named Josh Tatum was the chief perpetrator of this fraud, and he could not be convicted because he simply gave the coins in payment for purchases of less than five cents, but did not protest if he was given change appropriate to a five-dollar coin. There is no historical record of Tatum outside of numismatic folklore, however, so the story may well be apocryphal.[2] The 1883 nickel is sometimes referred to as the "racketeer nickel," and Josh Tatum is sometimes cited as the source of the saying, "You're not Joshin' me, are you?"

from the wikipedia article on nickels:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_(United_States_coin)

Arcane
12-05-2010, 09:59 PM
From http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/display.html?terms=defaces&url=/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000331----000-.html


Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or
Whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or lightenedó
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

If you aren't doing it fraudulently, apparently you can do it. The trick is, whose definition of "fraudulently" is the court going to believe...yours or the prosecutions?

fredf
12-05-2010, 10:01 PM
Anyone ever see the heart penny? I'm wondering if someone could shed some light on how they are produced? I'm thinking stamped. I've never seen the machine that could do that although I imagine a die on a simple press could do it. Then... were would you get the die? I just have an idea to make something similar that's all. But not sure were to begin :confused:

Here's a link to show you what I mean:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Heart-Penny-12-Heart-Pennies-Shiny-Heart-Coins-/390261560266?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

Thanks!

for that matter they could be easily scroll sawn

CCWKen
12-05-2010, 10:31 PM
Fraud is basically intentional deception. There's no deception here. You get what is described--A penny with a hole in it. If they were "making" the penny and punching a hole then it would be deception by counterfeit coinage. This has been going on for years on all denominations of coins. Folks make rings, bracelets, necklaces, earrings and all types of souvenirs from coins.

DR
12-06-2010, 08:11 AM
.................................................. .....................

I'm more interested in the "can it be done at home" realm since I'd like to try it just for fun and it would be something the girlfriend can give away in her grooming business as well. I need insight on the dies. I'll admit I'm not to well versed in that area but how hard can it be?? I'm not looking to make hearts but rather a cut out of a dog or pooch in a coin would work well. I think it can be done.;)


Of course it can be done at home.

The punch/dies et will be the expensive part unless you make them yourself.

The punch is the male component of the set, the die is the female.

The die is easily made on a wire EDM, but easily here doesn't necessarily mean cheap. Maybe a couple hundred bucks or more.

The punch is a little more difficult. That could also be made by EDM, but much more expensive than the die.

Once made, the punching could be done in a small 4 ton bench press like a Roper Whitney. Used on ebay, $500+/-.

You could get a quote for the punch/die set at www.roperwhitney.com.

rockrat
12-06-2010, 10:29 AM
It is only illegal to deface money if your doing it for some illegal purpose. You are taking money out of circulation and the government likes that.

Fair enough. Never read the law on that and probably should have just looked it up but, its the internet and I'm lazy so I just asked.

Thanks for the replies! Back to the ice box shop. Hope the heat is making a difference by now.

rock~