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View Full Version : Gas prices are up, WAY UP.



gary350
12-05-2010, 06:33 PM
I should have bought gas yesterday. I just put $60 of regular in my tank only got 19 gallons. Price is up from $2.69 to $3.15 per gallon over night in TN.

squirrel
12-05-2010, 06:38 PM
I should have bought gas yesterday. I just put $60 in my tank only got 19 gallons.
Where did you purchase the gas?

That does not seem too bad, I recall just a few years ago paying over $4 something a gallon for diesel on the toll road, then filling up the big truck in downtown Chicago and paying $5 something for it.

Liger Zero
12-05-2010, 06:46 PM
Location data would be helpful.

I filled up the Old Dodge Van for 65 and change.

Tony Ennis
12-05-2010, 06:52 PM
$3 in Louisville, KY. Jumped about 15 cents overnight. Was $2.70 last week.

cuemaker
12-05-2010, 07:08 PM
I just paid 2.99 in my town.. was 2.80's last week.. coulda been 2.89

cuemaker
12-05-2010, 07:14 PM
Found a news artical which may explain why....

http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=231670

garagemark
12-05-2010, 07:17 PM
I don't buy Asian crude.

2.82 to 3.05 last night. You can see my area.

jugs
12-05-2010, 07:21 PM
Don't know why you lot are complaining about, we have to pay £1.22/liter = about $7.60 /USgall :mad:

john
:)

cuemaker
12-05-2010, 07:31 PM
I don't buy Asian crude.

2.82 to 3.05 last night. You can see my area.

If you had read a little bit farther it says

"Saudi Arabia’s state-owned producer set the price for its Extra Light crude oil for January loadings for U.S. buyers at a premium of $2.50 a barrel over the Argus Sour Crude Index, $1.10 a barrel more than December cargoes"

DFMiller
12-05-2010, 07:47 PM
I paid $1.201 per litre today in Surrey BC. It's maybe up a penny or two.
Dave

Ries
12-05-2010, 08:24 PM
I havent bought gas since yesterday morning, so maybe it really is up here, too, but I kinda doubt it.

Our gas prices havent gone below 3 bucks in about a year, unless you go to the Indian Reservation. Right now, the cheap gas is running right around 3 bucks, the high price places are getting closer to 3.20 a gallon.

The reason being, almost all our gas is American oil based- Alaska Crude, which costs more than the cheap import stuff from Venezuela you guys get back east.

Evan
12-05-2010, 08:25 PM
Saudi Arabia’s state-owned producer set the price for its Extra Light crude oil for January loadings for U.S. buyers at a premium of $2.50 a barrel over the Argus Sour Crude Index, $1.10 a barrel more than December cargoes

That doesn't mean much. Texas Intermediate is the standard for comparison for most crude oil here and in Europe it is Brent Sweet Light. Neither type of oil actually exists. It is a specification against which real crude is measured to determine market price. Right now Canada supplies more oil to the US than any other supplier and the prices of a range of Canadian crude types has gone down slightly last Friday. Discounts range from a few cents to as high as 20% off the "standard" price. Virtually nobody pays the price that is quoted on the news since that is a hypothetical barrel of oil.

beanbag
12-05-2010, 08:29 PM
So I think it is ok for us to be dependent on "foreign" Canadian oil.

cuemaker
12-05-2010, 08:31 PM
Your right in that it dont mean much in the real world, but for futures its enough to raise prices....

gnm109
12-05-2010, 08:39 PM
It hasn't gone up much in the Sacramento area. It's been $3.259 for months and today, it was $3.159. It will go up again, though. Not to worry.

Evan
12-05-2010, 09:29 PM
Best guesses right now are for 90 dollar oil before year end and $100 by spring. Long term prospects are for $120 in 2012. Electricity is going up here 10 percent per year over three years for sure and perhaps more. That will directly affect prices in the Western US since in summer BC sells a lot of power south.

Natural gas is a wild card since the international export/import market is only a small fraction of supply. The primary driver of natural gas prices in summer is industrial usage as feed stock for a large variety of processes as well as industrial heat for synthetic crude production in Canada. In general all energy is going up and that drives prices of materials that depend on energy such as aluminum, steel and most plastics as well as a wide range of chemicals and resins. It also includes acetylene which is 80% produced from reformed methane.

One rule of the market that has never been broken: It always exceeds the previous highs within a few years after a correction. This rule goes back hundreds of years to England when Lloyds began betting on slave traders in 1774 by insuring their ships. The only exceptions have been during wars whe free trading has been restricted by price controls.

Black_Moons
12-05-2010, 10:12 PM
I pay about $1.02~1.09 per liter for gas where I live, depending on the phase of the moon, Tides, How many oil tankers/deep sea drilling rigs ruptured this week, Etc.

I find it amusing how gas went up to nearly $2 a liter a few years back, Only for everyone to start buying small cars, Hybrids, etc... And then it suddenly droped right back down to where it was. And everyone goes back to buying SUV's and paying $100 to fill up the tank.

Almost as if the gas companys got scared that people actualy started caring about fuel consumption, And hence droped the prices back to what they used to be to encourage everyone to go back to buying SUV's.

I used to work in a gas station, And some days the gas price would be changed 10 times in a day! insanity really. Imagen a clerk going around the store all day and repricing chips every hour, Or adjusting the coffee price sign for every pot, And then droping it as the pot gets older.. Except that would actualy make some mild sense.

PS: Did you know, A gas station does NOT make any profit off selling gas? Typicaly, the 'store' a station is attached to is run by a seperate company that only makes profit off celling cigs, lotto, snacks, etc. This is why most have a oddball name on the actual station store.

The store is however responceable for any 'Gas and runs', Hence why BC switched to prepay only.. Too many gas station attendants getting run over and killed for $50 in gas!
Oddly, Its also illegal for an employee to be required to repay losses due to theft (AFAIK, in canada anyway), So it really makes no sense at all to risk your life trying to stop some douche trying to steal gas. Especialy when most gas stations have enough cameras to catch the guys lisence plate.

CCWKen
12-05-2010, 10:43 PM
To keep this thread from turning into political, anti-corporation or global monetary bashing:

Unless you're running your mill or lathe on gasoline, who cares what you paid for gas? :rolleyes:




:D

squirrel
12-05-2010, 10:46 PM
To keep this thread from turning into political, anti-corporation or global monetary bashing:

Unless you're running your mill or lathe on gasoline, who cares what you paid for gas? :rolleyes:




:D
No everyone is living on the grid, it might a generator running the shop. Thats how the Amish around here do it.

CCWKen
12-05-2010, 11:31 PM
No everyone is living on the grid, it might a generator running the shop. Thats how the Amish around here do it.
Isn't that what I said?

I still don't care. Everybody pays the same amount. The only difference is how far you are from the distribution point and your state's taxes, fees and special requirements. If you don't like the price, stop buying it. ;)

tumutbound
12-05-2010, 11:36 PM
Petrol here averages $A1.32 per litre.

Converted to American, that's $US4.92 per US gallon.

Don't complain just yet. :)

J Tiers
12-06-2010, 12:01 AM
Considering that in 1956 gas cost an adjusted-to-current $2.26 per gallon, and that now it was most recently at about $2.79, that is remarkably stable pricing.

Even at $3 it is 30% higher adjusted

oldtiffie
12-06-2010, 12:03 AM
Its not done yet Geoff.

Its winter in the northern hemisphere (ie USA) and the usual (recent) double winter gripe in the USA is "expensive"????? gas and a "killer" swine flu pandemic.

Those two should keep 'em going for a while yet.

barts
12-06-2010, 12:06 AM
A gallon of diesel is about $3.50 here, but I think this is still a great deal. That will produce 10 hp for about an hour. It will power my Jetta TDI between 40 and 50 miles, driven carefully, or my family, 4wd truck and Airstream about 15 miles.

Fuel costs will rise. Might as well factor that into any vehicular buying decisions, as well as house locations wrt work, etc.

- Bart

gmatov
12-06-2010, 12:38 AM
Blackmoons,

I call that an out and out lie that you have bought into.

"PS: Did you know, A gas station does NOT make any profit off selling gas? Typicaly, the 'store' a station is attached to is run by a seperate company that only makes profit off celling cigs, lotto, snacks, etc. This is why most have a oddball name on the actual station store."

Profit per gallon is probably in the 25 cents or more range, at today's rate. 20 years ago, with dollar gas, the margin was about 20 cents per gallon.

A local station has a posted rate that is equal to every station in a five mile area. THEY discount one grade or another at 6 cents per gallon every day of the week, and all grades by 2 cents, all day Saturday.

They are not a "convenience store". They sell nothing other than some candy and Lottery tickets. They ARE a full service mechanical repair shop. They do NOT throw away at least 6 thou per month in fuel profit to enhance their mechanical repairs. They sell at LEAST 100 thou gallons per month.

Somebody has sold you a snow job, if you think that they make no money from fuel sales. You seem to only go to "convenience stores" to get your gas. Check out how many gas "kiosks" there are, little "islands" in the midst of 9 or more fueling stations, 8 X 10 Cashier's station. They might sell you smokes, but anything else you want will be in machines outside.

Oil is a commodity, and as long as you have billionaires who have no place else to put their billions, oil is the best bet. No downside to speak of. LOTS of upside.
That it drives the US economy into the ground does not seem to matter, to them. THEY make money, so all is well.

Cheers,

George

gmatov
12-06-2010, 12:54 AM
Tiffie,

"and a "killer" swine flu pandemic."

I suppose that is why LAST year they couldn't sell all the sera they made, THIS year they put a 25 buck cost on it, MAYBE if we CHARGE for it, people will get it.

A year ago, we were ALL going to die from the "PANDEMIC". People stayed away in droves from the shots, and we had lower Flu deaths than in many years. Typical in the US is 36 thou per year from Flu and Flu related. I think it was 8 thou, last year, and so this year they jack up the price. If you gotta PAY for it, it MUST be better.

I still won't get the free, to me, shot. Had one, in 1976, required by the Corp, GOT Flu, and never again. I had it in, what, '56(?), sick as a dog, recovered, am supposedly immune, unless that shot killed off the immunity.

Cheers,

George

Evan
12-06-2010, 01:30 AM
Typical in the US is 36 thou per year from Flu and Flu related. I think it was 8 thou, last year,...

Might be that raising people's awareness about how to avoid spreading infection saved a lot of lives. Funny how things turn out. When a problem is successfully averted by taking proactive measures a lot of people assume there was never a problem. In this particular instance it seems that the pronouncement of a pandemic may have had a beneficial unintended consequence.

darryl
12-06-2010, 03:15 AM
Hm. I was thinking that last nite as I milled around among thousands lined up to watch the Christmas parade in downtown Chilliwack. There were lots of snivelling people standing around shoulder to shoulder- same as the insane hoards of shoppers pushing their way around the stores, buying all kinds of crap and spreading germs. How many times have you picked up something in a store and kind of rolled it around, taking a look at it- maybe the last person to do so had a bad cold, maybe even sneezed on it-

How many times have you looked at the edge of your plate in a restaurant- see the thumbprints and smears on it- the waitress who brought that to you has had her thumb on several other plates, picking up and depositing what people have done to the sides of their plates. Laid their forks there, had their own thumbs all around it and up their noses- coughed at their plates, food particles dripped off their lips back onto the plate-

Somebody, somewhere, has just scratched their butt through the jeans they haven't changed in five days, then firmly grasped the door handle to your favorite restaurant, just before you got there-

Hey, I got an idea! Lower fuel prices by creating less demand, and lower flu incidents at the same time- friggin stay home! :)

Ah, but the parade was OK- I watched it from inside a busy restaurant-:rolleyes:

KiddZimaHater
12-06-2010, 07:29 AM
This doesn't make any sense....
Weren't runaway gas prices some sort of EVIL conspiracy perpetrated by the EVIL Dick Cheney and his stooge George W. Bush?
I don't know which conspiracy theory to believe now.:(

snowman
12-06-2010, 08:12 AM
Blackmoons,

I call that an out and out lie that you have bought into.


Actually George, he's mostly correct, at least in this locale.

The "rate" is set by the distributor. That distributor sells you gas for say, 2.89, they may also supply the store across the street and sell to them for 2.90, and the guy down the street for 2.75. It's all over the place.

I used to do the taxes for a few gas stations. Your success as an owner is dependent upon what you pay your distributor.

So when gas costs more at the interstate vs the rural areas, it's the distributor that is making that money, not the individual store.

The amount of markup on a gallon of gas is in general, less than 0.10 / gallon...usually less. It's all about getting em in the door to sell them soda, candy, etc.

I would imagine that it's largely regional as well. We don't really have kiosks around here...or if we have the smaller stations, they generally sell the gas cheaper for cash rate to get them to prepay (and buy a pop), or get their markup on the credit rate.

Evan
12-06-2010, 08:51 AM
They make money on the gasoline just fine. We only have self serve here and they are all "pay at the pump" if you have a credit or debit card. There is no reason to go in and pay unless you pay cash. Of course we are getting reamed on the price since we pay the same price as Vancouver but we don't have the 12 cents extra transit tax per litre. It adds up to an extra 40 cents per gallon profit on top of what they make selling gas in Vancouver. The profit margin for just gasoline in this town is around 60 to 80 cents per US gallon.

wierdscience
12-06-2010, 09:23 AM
Blackmoons,


Profit per gallon is probably in the 25 cents or more range, at today's rate. 20 years ago, with dollar gas, the margin was about 20 cents per gallon.

George

I have a friend who owns six stations in three different towns.The average "profit" on a gallon of gas is $.07-.09/gallon GROSS.

Three of the stations have stores attached and make a profit for him,the other three are break even at best.

Labor cannot be had for less than $12/hr(decent labor that won't rob him or his customers blind) and the electric bill(commercial rate) can run $2,500/month per station.

He works an average of 50-60hrs a week making sure everything is functioning right and filling in for employees that didn't show for work.

He is not getting rich despite what you may think.

jugs
12-06-2010, 09:28 AM
Its not done yet Geoff.

Its winter in the northern hemisphere (ie USA) and the usual (recent) double winter gripe in the USA is "expensive"????? gas and a "killer" swine flu pandemic.

Those two should keep 'em going for a while yet.

Kill more people with swine flu, that'll reduce sales of fuel ( & reduce pollution for the rest of us :) ) so fuel company's will drop prises to stimulate sales .

Perhaps that should be the new fiscal policy, 'KILL MORE PEOPLE' , we all know how war stimulates profit. :D

john
:)

JCHannum
12-06-2010, 02:45 PM
Do you find it at all surprising that this increase in price is following directly on the heels of last week's announcement of the reversal of the decision to expand oil exploration and to extend the ban on offshore drilling through 2017?

Evan
12-06-2010, 02:59 PM
I think that it has much more to do with the fact that worldwide demand for oil has jumped by a huge 2.3 million barrels per day year over year. Demand right now has already exceeded the July projected demand for next year.

Steelmaster
12-06-2010, 03:45 PM
The best way of fighting high petrol prices is not to use it, or use as little as possible. Our European cousins have found this out a long time ago, they drive much smaller cars often powered by economical diesel engines.

In my case, I drive a 6 cyl Holden Commodore that comes converted to direct injected LPG from the factory.

With petrol at around the $1.30 mark, LPG sells for $0.54. My records over the last 2+ years show that my cost per km running on LPG is 6.5c/km, on petrol this would have been $0.14. In that time I have driven 62500km and saved a cool $4800:)

So, rather than complain about the price of petrol, consider different strategies.

aboard_epsilon
12-06-2010, 05:16 PM
been on lpg since 1999.

i can remember when it was 1/3 the price of petrol ..it is now more than half .

all the best.markj

bollie7
12-06-2010, 06:36 PM
In my case, I drive a 6 cyl Holden Commodore that comes converted to direct injected LPG from the factory.

With petrol at around the $1.30 mark, LPG sells for $0.54. My records over the last 2+ years show that my cost per km running on LPG is 6.5c/km, on petrol this would have been $0.14. In that time I have driven 62500km and saved a cool $4800

Out of curiosity, how much extra over the equiv petrol only Commodore, is the factory LPG?

bollie7

squirrel
12-06-2010, 07:50 PM
The best way of fighting high petrol prices is not to use it, or use as little as possible.

You said the magic words, when we buy another car it will have a battery for adjunct power. Then I can fly the single digit aimed at the middle east and sleep better knowning my hard earned money is not funding terrorists and barbarian countries that stone women to death.

tdkkart
12-06-2010, 08:25 PM
You said the magic words, when we buy another car it will have a battery for adjunct power. Then I can fly the single digit aimed at the middle east and sleep better knowning my hard earned money is not funding terrorists and barbarian countries that stone women to death.



And where do you propose to get the electricity to charge the batteries??

IdahoJim
12-06-2010, 08:30 PM
I think that it has much more to do with the fact that worldwide demand for oil has jumped by a huge 2.3 million barrels per day year over year. Demand right now has already exceeded the July projected demand for next year.

Bingo! And the Chinese expect their consumption to increase by 50% over the next 5 years. We'll have $6.00 gas by then, if not sooner.
Jim

Evan
12-06-2010, 09:20 PM
....and barbarian countries that stone women to death.

Why do people feel the need to turn so many discussions into a soap box for unrelated issues? It is especially distasteful when it comes from a country that only stopped executing children five years ago and still sentences young children to life in prison.

oldtiffie
12-06-2010, 10:00 PM
The best way of fighting high petrol prices is not to use it, or use as little as possible. Our European cousins have found this out a long time ago, they drive much smaller cars often powered by economical diesel engines.

In my case, I drive a 6 cyl Holden Commodore that comes converted to direct injected LPG from the factory.

With petrol at around the $1.30 mark, LPG sells for $0.54. My records over the last 2+ years show that my cost per km running on LPG is 6.5c/km, on petrol this would have been $0.14. In that time I have driven 62500km and saved a cool $4800:)

So, rather than complain about the price of petrol, consider different strategies.

I have a 6-cylinder 1989 EA Ford Falcon kept right up to factory specs. I bought it used about 13 1/2 years ago.

It has done almost 1/2 million Km and other than expected fair wear and tear is in very good shape.

It was originally petrol (UK, AU, NZ) - ie "gas" (US, CA) which was fuel-injected.

I had LPG fitted as an "after market" item. It is normally aspirated (supplied to the intake manifold via the venturi).

I use "gas" occasionally to keep the fuel and fuel system "fresh" but otherwise use it on LPG.

My cost - like Steelmasters - is about AU$0.065 per litre. (The $AU is near enough at parity with the $US).

Provided the car is kept tuned it works very well.

My 3.9 litre engine is just fine and the larger car is an easier ride and easier to get into and out of which small cars and large/SUV/4WD's (which I don't need!!) are not.

We will be keeping the Ford Falcon for a couple of years and then we will up-grade to a later (NOT NEW) one to which we will have a retro-fitted injection multi-stage LPG system fitted.

I've never griped about the cost of fuel as its an exercise in futility and stupidity as all the grizzling in the world won't change much (if anything) - so why do it?

Fuel is part of the cost of having and using a vehicle.

Why is it such a cultural (habitual) "thing" for the US people to gripe as they do?

Fuel - and cars and the associated costs of cars and motoring are pretty well more than they are in the US in most of the world as represented here, yet at most, you will hear one or two passing comments by those here outside the US and then they let the matter drop.

Those in the USA do not have their fuel prices change with changes in international currency exchange rates in terms of the $US as oils etc. are priced in $US pretty well universally.

Changes in countries other than the US as regards the values or local currencies versus the $US cause a pretty well instant change in local oil and most other consumable commodity prices.

So in terms of the rest of the world, the USA is not so badly off at all as regards "gas" and oil at all.

Many people and countries outside the US would not mind having those US "problems" in that regard at all.

Spandau
12-06-2010, 10:53 PM
I get about 26 MPG in a union-made 1996 Chevy S10.

Gas here is 2.99-3.10 per gallon.

I'm surprised no one has blamed this on Bush yet....

J Tiers
12-06-2010, 11:23 PM
I get about 26 MPG in a union-made 1996 Chevy S10.

Gas here is 2.99-3.10 per gallon.

SAme mileage, or a bit better, in a 2000. Gas $2.79.


I'm surprised no one has blamed this on Bush yet....

Now, now, get OVER it..... this is the new guy's fault........ :D

darryl
12-06-2010, 11:47 PM
Ah, the old bugaboo- still have to obtain power by some means. Even if you make all your own power, it's still expensive. Still can't buy a decent sized solar panel without losing an arm at least-

The key to it all is to use less-

x39
12-06-2010, 11:51 PM
The key to it all is to use less-
That pretty much sums it up, right across the board.

gmatov
12-07-2010, 01:20 AM
Wierd,

Just MAYBE that guy is lying to you?

"The reality is that profit margins at the gas pump stay at around 23 cents a gallon, regardless of the price per gallon."

http://www.smartmoney.com/spending/rip-offs/what-gas-stations-wont-tell-you-19750/?page=2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL4NZFO977o

A ditto to that.

http://appraisersforum.com/showthread.php?t=167856

Further down on gas station margin, the percentage falls to the "lose money on every gallon", and I think it would be naive to think that.

I have no problem with fuel stations that get 23 cents per gallon in profit. I think they may all be idiots to install all those swipe the card pumps, 2.5% or more of the sale, 3 buck gas, 7 1/2 cents off the top, that DOES wipe out the 23 cents.

Come in the store and give me 20 bucks and I will crank in 20 bucks, and I will put another half a buck in the till. On top of the 23 cents per gallon.

Whether "I think that it has much more to do with the fact that worldwide demand for oil has jumped by a huge 2.3 million barrels per day year over year. Demand right now has already exceeded the July projected demand for next year." has anything to do with the price is debatable.

Oil is a commodity, and one that can be bid up for little cost and make large returns. One of the few that we cannot do without, so we pay the going rate.
Heating gas and electricity are tied to them, so that is not to say we don't have to pay for those increases.

Hell, I wish I knew how to do that. I might give it a shot.

Cheers,

George

oldtiffie
12-07-2010, 01:52 AM
Originally Posted by Steelmaster
The best way of fighting high petrol prices is not to use it, or use as little as possible.
You said the magic words, when we buy another car it will have a battery for adjunct power. Then I can fly the single digit aimed at the middle east and sleep better knowning my hard earned money is not funding terrorists and barbarian countries that stone women to death.

Err.

Given all the oil burned by the US in the Middle East and the huge amount of money it pours in "defending" its "friends" there (who siphon off huge amounts of US money and "Aid" and that a lot of that money funds "terrorists", and given that nothing is likely to change much for the better soon, the US should perhaps be more selective in its "thankful" "friends".

Perhaps the "terrorists" can't see the logic of the US virtually giving them money to clobber the US citizens and its economy, you could hardly blame them for responding "positively" to the virtual US invitation to do so.

But I guess we have to have "oil" I suppose.

My guess is that it can't be too long before the competing "buyers" and the cartel of "sellers" jack the prices up and limit supply to the US to the extent that the US - and a lot of the rest of us too - either can't afford to buy it in the quantities that we are used to at prices that we can afford to pay, and then, if not sooner, it will get "interesting".

Enjoy the cheap gas while you can - it won't last.

jugs
12-07-2010, 04:52 AM
Why is it such a cultural (habitual) "thing" for the US people to gripe as they do?

Because they have been (still largely are) an insular country, they've been fed "The American Dream" by politicians & Hollywood for years & sadly most still belove in it, now the realitys of REAL life are starting to bite they don't like it.

john
:)

Evan
12-07-2010, 07:41 AM
Right now the main factor in high gasoline prices in the US and especially in the eastern US is because the Irving Oil Refinery in Nova Scotia is on a planned maintenance shutdown and uprade. Irving normally supplies around one million barrels of refined gasoline to the eastern US per week as well as heating oil. This means that local supplies are tight and rebalancing is occuring across the country. That in turn causes the asks to go up in the daily market where actual supplies are bid.

A secondary factor is that a number of older refineries in the US have been permanently shut down during the period of reduced demand in the last two years. Building new refineries to replace lost capacity apparently is a political and environmental impossibility in the US. No new refinery has been constructed in the US in about 30 years. The US is now also importing gasoline all the way from Europe.

Don't want a refinery in your town? Expect to pay more.

Alistair Hosie
12-07-2010, 07:49 AM
All you guys are moaning about nothing! Now we really pay for our petrol/gas here in the uk ,and just get on with it ,what else can we do . Try living here for a few years it's a great country great but we pay a lot of tax on gasoline.But then we do have free health service ( at point of use)which would have suited the man complaining of a high bill for having a slither taken out of his finger You can't have it all I suppose.Alistair