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dalee100
12-09-2010, 06:30 PM
Hi,

Why is it that they can truck ship me a new lathe almost 2000 miles in 2 days time. But can't ship me an arbor and drill chuck in 2 weeks. :confused: It's still "in transit, on time and expected for delivery in 2 days"

Both items were ordered at the same exact time from the same operator.

dalee

Bill736
12-09-2010, 08:26 PM
It's the same reason that HF advertises a sale item for 2 months that's been " no longer available from the manufacturer" for the same 2 months. However, the exact same item, with a different stock number and a higher price, is readily available. But, despite such business practices, we keep buying from them , don't we ? We're addicted to the low prices, and willing to turn our backs to everything else.

sasquatch
12-09-2010, 08:53 PM
Possibly your,e two smaller items are back-ordered?

Gravy
12-09-2010, 09:02 PM
Hi,

Why is it that they can truck ship me a new lathe almost 2000 miles in 2 days time. But can't ship me an arbor and drill chuck in 2 weeks. :confused: It's still "in transit, on time and expected for delivery in 2 days"

Both items were ordered at the same exact time from the same operator.

dalee

Most likely the lathe was in a warehouse in your region of the US. The arbor and chuck are literally coming on a slow boat from China.

randyc
12-09-2010, 10:14 PM
Bingo!
We have shopped for the low price for so long that many of the manufacturers of good quality products ended up out of business , or with their plants in China, turning out junk.

How ironic that for years we complained about the declining quality of American-made products -autos come to mind- but now we expect and accept poor quality imports because they are cheaper. The race to the bottom continues.

Dirk

Amen, Brother !!!

67chevelle
12-09-2010, 11:34 PM
I agree completely.. If I'm buying from the low priced / low quality supplier, I don't usually expect top notch delivery or top notch quality products.

Mark



Amen, Brother !!!

gregl
12-09-2010, 11:37 PM
Someone on this board has a sig line that reads: "I can't afford to buy cheap tools." And in most cases, I agree.

Bill736
12-09-2010, 11:47 PM
I do wonder where this race to the bottom will end . More and more I'm seeing products used in our basic infrastructure coming out of China. Pipe and pipe fittings, electrical wire, structural steel , and more complex assemblies are being used in this country in essential capacities that must be reliable. Many of these products are defective or out of spec. What will it take to wake us up to what's coming .....disasters caused by cheaply made materials. How will it start? An unexplained explosion at a chemical factory ?
Power outages from faulty equipment ? Collapse of bridges ? Leaks from nuclear power plants ? Imported cars with sticking accelerators ? ( Oh right, we already have that.) How about aircraft falling from the skies ? I'm not an alarmist or extremist, but the difficulty I've experienced in buying good quality construction materials lately has gotten me concerned that a much bigger picture is already in progress involving all sorts of industrial products made in China and elsewhere. Where will the military obtain high quality components when nobody in the US even bids on the contracts ? Watch for it, because I believe it's coming .

dalee100
12-10-2010, 11:08 AM
Hi,

It would seem I owe HF a bit of an apology. They shipped the parts the next day. Evidently FedEx is taking their sweet time with delivery. It is spending 2-3 days at every terminal before moving on. A nice lady at HF taught me how to track my order on line.

Rest assured, the quality of the items ordered will be good enough for the expected job. I don't need a $2000 hammer to drive a penny nail, so to speak.

I'm just a bit frustrated because I need the arbor and chuck to get on with the job at hand.

dalee

The Fixer
12-10-2010, 02:03 PM
...ordered these pieces with the lathe I guess! lol

Mike Hunter
12-10-2010, 02:15 PM
God…I hate Chinese Crap,

For years I bought imported stuff for price… Drill bits, drill chucks edge finders etc… Now I'm realizing how much that junk has cost me in dollars and productivity.

Recently was cleaning out my scrap tool box; 8-10 drill chucks…all Chinese, trashed jaws, crappy run-out, scored tapers. But the Bison and Albrecht are still running strong. Geesh… for the $500 or so that I spent on that junk, I could have a few more quality chucks.

There’s probably 3-4 complete sets of broken, twisted or burnt drill bits… No us made ones, just Chinese imports.

3 Chinese mill vises with cracked castings.

V-Blocks…Clamping Straps made out of cast iron which crack the first time you use them. Bolts made out of stretchable steel, and bolt holes not fully threaded or with burrs etc in them so that only half the threaded holes are useable. And they are hard…so if you try and clean them up with a tap..you will break the tap.

My FIL gave me a box of PRC hacksaw blades, ran out of good ones tried using those, two strokes in 1018 and the blade was completely bald…all the teeth were gone.

Spend 3-4 hours on a part and a cheap Chinese drill or tap break off in the part…. Keep telling yourself that you saved money.

That cheap HF, 12 point socket set rounds off the head of a bolt… now you take it to a mechanic with “proper tools” … Impress him by telling him how much you save on that socet set...

Think many of us have been using cheap crap for so long now we have forgotten what quality tools can do. Case in point: For years my wife has had a set of Brand Name (But Made in China) kitchen knives. I would try and sharpen them, about like sharpening bubble gum; bought a few different sharpeners…all to no avail.

Finally bought a set of Quality German made kitchen knives for my wife…I got that “how can you spend so much on a set when we have a perfectly good set here” talk…. I then put a tomato on the cutting board, told her to try her knife first, then try the new knife…

The look was total amazement, she spent the next few minutes seeing how thin she could actually slice a tomato; about a dozen slices of paper thin tomato….

Yup…we both forgot how well a knife can cut…

V/R

Mike

MichaelP
12-10-2010, 03:39 PM
Mike, I hear you.

mlucek
12-10-2010, 04:30 PM
More and more I'm seeing products used in our basic infrastructure coming out of China. Pipe and pipe fittings, electrical wire, structural steel... I've been helping to restore a steam locomotive over the past 2 mos and many of the pipe fittings (elbows, reducers, etc) are from China.

Somebody put a sign in the engine cab that says, "Made in the U.S.A." which now is only partly true :p :rolleyes:

Mike

Arcane
12-10-2010, 04:54 PM
Think many of us have been using cheap crap for so long now we have forgotten what quality tools can do.


Most people have been accepting crap for so long, they think it's normal. Merchandise AND labour/service!

davidwdyer
12-10-2010, 04:54 PM
I understand Mike Hunter's rant against cheap tools. Junky tools are frustration and even dangerous. Yet, if you are selective, you can get some pretty good tools at HF.

On the other hand, I have done so much work with such tools which I would never been able to do if I had to pay high prices for them, it is beyond count.

If I were making a living with my tools, it would make much more sense to buy the highest quality possible. But when something gets used only once a year or so, and that for my own purposes, sometimes these cheap tools are good enough.

Your Old Dog
12-10-2010, 06:15 PM
Don't knock it too hard. If it wasn't for my slant-eyed hoe I'd be milling with files.....lots of'em!! :D I'd never spend 500 for an engine lift or 6-800 for a motorcycle lift. Are they great tools? A resounding NO! But in some cases they serve some back yard mechanics needs for all the more often he needs'em.

gnm109
12-10-2010, 06:48 PM
Hi,

It would seem I owe HF a bit of an apology. They shipped the parts the next day. Evidently FedEx is taking their sweet time with delivery. It is spending 2-3 days at every terminal before moving on. A nice lady at HF taught me how to track my order on line.

Rest assured, the quality of the items ordered will be good enough for the expected job. I don't need a $2000 hammer to drive a penny nail, so to speak.

I'm just a bit frustrated because I need the arbor and chuck to get on with the job at hand.

dalee


I recently ordered a part on Amazon and it took 9 days by Fed Ex. Fed Ex and UPS are now transferring items to the Post Office for local delivery. That took an extra 2 days.

BTW, if anyone doesn't like H.F., they shouldn't shop there. H.F. has its place in the hierarchy of suppliers. On some things they can't be beat, other things it pays to shop. Everyone should have their own personal list of items that they either would or would not buy from them.


.

KiddZimaHater
12-10-2010, 07:50 PM
Hell, I had to wait 9 MONTHS for Grizzly to get my Surface Grinder arbors to me. 9 month back-order. SHEESH!!! :mad:

Mike Hunter
12-10-2010, 07:58 PM
David

Don’t totally disagree; think there are some products that are no longer made in the US…. Cast Iron angle plates comes to mind; don’t’ think anyone in the US makes drill chucks either.

And that brings up another point, if we stop buying, the makers of quality products will stop making. Kinda economics 101.

Already we’ve seen too many name brand manufacturers outsource to China…just so they can compete…. “Hey if the customer wants’ crap…we can make crap too” .

So instead of forcing outlets like Harbor Freight to increase their standards, we have now forced quality producers to lower theirs.

What is very unfortunate is that most of the companies that refused to compromise on quality are now gone… And we only have ourselves to blame.

Looking at the latest Enco flyer; You can buy US made lathe bits for .40 cents more than the import brand. You can buy Hertel Cobalt end mills for just a few dollars ($6) more than the import or Atrax brand for $9 more, I guarantee they will last 4-5 times longer than the imports…and can be resharpened.

Instead of a $3 edge finder (how good can it be for $3), buy a Starrett or Brown & Sharpe for $12, or buy a big kick from Fisher machine for $15…..You will have a lifetime of quality.

A US made triple bearing live center just $20 more than Enco’s import brand.
Buy a Bison brand drill chuck; my experience, it will outlast a Chinese mfg one tenfold. Notice you can’t get repair parts for Enco’s Ultra- precision chucks; could it be because they are not worth repairing.

The cool part; quality never goes out of style. You will find quality products have a different feel, no more problems with mis fitting parts, soft screws, soft jaws mis alignment etc. If you have any problems/questions…you can call the actual manufacturer. Just try and call that manufacturer of that Chinese tool, heck, Enco probably doesn’t even know who made it, they just bought a container load of them from an importer.

And by using quality tools, you might find yourself doing better work…Yes I know…. It’s the machinist, not the tools, but there are some that are so bad…. They would severely handicap a good machinist.

gmatov
12-10-2010, 09:50 PM
I have many "good" tools, and I have many HF tools. Almost NONE of the tools that you call "good ol' Made in the USA tools, ARE made in the USA. Almost all the major US mfgs have moved their production to China.

B&D and Porter-Cable, one and the same, except one is orange, one is yellow, are made strictly in China. Starrett makes much of their product in China. Lufkin, Browne and Sharp, I don't know for sure, but would not be surprised to hea,r are also made in China.

China did not invade the US with tooling, or anything else. A US manufacturer went there to have product made cheaper than they could make it here. WE have to pay Americans too much to make the profit WE want.

Some of you guys have to rant about HF and other imported product. There is very little you CAN buy that is made in the USA.

The guy who says his HF socket rounded off his lug nuts had to have used the wrong socket, else the socket would have rounded out, the lug been fine. SO, the steel of the socket was better than the steel of the lug nut.

I have broken US made 1/2 inch drive sockets trying to loose the studs on my Audi, pipe persuader. Got them loose with 3/8 KMart Benchtop ratchet and socket with the same persuader, and bouncing up and down on the pipe. Broken ONE Benchtop socket, 5/16, and the store took one out of a 21 piece set and replaced it. Can't beat that for warranty.

"And that brings up another point, if we stop buying, the makers of quality products will stop making. Kinda economics 101. "

Economics 101 tells makers that they should fire all them US employees, shut down all them mills, and just have the stuff made over there for 120 cents on the dollar and just keep warehouses, here, and a couple forklift drivers to make more money for them to split up with the stockholders.

You got to go to Economics 303 or something, where they tell you that if you make everything offshore, get rid of all your US employees, pretty soon there is nobody who can afford YOUR product, which you get made for so much less, yet charge the same or just a bit less for.

That is where we are, today. 9.8% unemployment. Poor are poorer than ever. Rich are pissed off that nobody is buying their junk.

I think this is akin to what Steve, over there, has been preaching for a long time.

Cheers,

George

EddyCurr
12-10-2010, 11:03 PM
B&D and Porter-Cable, one and the same, except one is orange,
one is yellow, are made strictly in China.This is just the tip of the proverbial Black & Decker iceberg
- err, make that the Stanley Black & Decker iceberg.


Stanley and Black & Decker Complete Merger (http://www.stanleyblackanddecker.com/news/stanley-and-black-decker-complete-merger)
New Britain, Connecticut, March 12, 2010 – The Stanley Works (NYSE: SWK)
announced today that it has completed its merger with The Black & Decker
Corporation (NYSE: BDK).

Consider a few of the many brands that the SB&D group represents


Black & Decker
Proto
Bostich
CRC
Delta
DeWalt
Kwikset
Mac Tools
Porter + Cable
Stanley (in all its various entities)
Weiser

Incidently, I added another Milwaukee brand battery-operated tool
to the collection yesterday.

Milwaukee became a subsidiary of Hong-Kong based Techtronic Industries Co. Ltd (http://contractormag.com/tools/cm_newsarticle_502/)
back in 2004 when TTI bought Atlas Copco AB (Milwaukee and AEG brands)
to round out TTI's Ryobi, Homelite and Dirt Devil brands.

For comparison, consider Fein tools from Germany. (At least that's where
they were made the last time I checked.) Fein makes nice power tools.
I think their price point is representative of where domestic brand tools
would fall if production still resided in NA.

.

gmatov
12-12-2010, 01:44 AM
'Nother,

Why can we ask for a RARE steak, after 15 minute, and get a BURNT steak, and send it back, and it takes 20 minutes or more to GET a RARE steak? Rare should be throw it on, flip it, over serve it.

Ah, wish it would be so.

Cheers,

George