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rp designs
12-09-2010, 06:55 PM
Being a very hobby machinist I tend to buy a lot of second hand stuff. I amcurious as to why there isn't a classified section in this forum?

wierdscience
12-09-2010, 07:27 PM
I think because the mags sell classified ads and classifieds here would be free and not generate revenue.

It's been discussed here many times about allowing them,just hasn't happened yet.

sasquatch
12-09-2010, 07:32 PM
I agree a classified topic here would be interesting, however i,m sure the revenue generated for the magazines is needed, and i,m fine with that.

oldtiffie
12-09-2010, 07:41 PM
Leave well enough alone.

Its Village Press policy - and they don't have to give reasons.

Otherwise PM or email George Bulliss.

dp
12-09-2010, 07:53 PM
Selling new or used equipment via this site would cut into revenue of the people who pay for adverts in the VP dead tree media publications. That would discourage advertisers and that would hit the pocket book hard.

macona
12-09-2010, 08:01 PM
I dont think so. Not for non-commercial ads at least. I mean a guy selling a used albrecht chuck or a used VFD is not going to pay to advertise in the magazine. Paying to sell a $50 item is a no-go to begin with and then ad a month lead time before your ad even appears is a total deal killer in today's internet based world.

Even on bigger ticket items I can have them sold via ebay, craigslist, or other outlets in less time than even waiting for the next issue to come out.

So just sell over on PM.

dp
12-09-2010, 08:08 PM
Selling used Kurt vises in a classified has the potential to cut into sales of new Glacern vises, for example. If it isn't an actual bad practice it does look like a bad practice.

gda
12-09-2010, 08:11 PM
Having a sale section could also make the site money by increasing traffic and lead to more click troughs on banner ads.

Problem with selling on PM is that lots of hobby sized stuff does not make it on.

dp
12-09-2010, 08:21 PM
Having a sale section could also make the site money by increasing traffic and lead to more click troughs on banner ads.

Problem with selling on PM is that lots of hobby sized stuff does not make it on.

The OP's question was what there are not classifieds, not why there could or should be.

Stepside
12-09-2010, 08:41 PM
I like it how it is. As we have members all over the world why muddy the waters with selling things where the freight would be more than the items asking price. Also we have all read the different members complaining about E'bay deals that have gone south as well as garage sales and craigs list problems. It ain't worth it. If E'bay and Craigs List and their clones didn't exist it would be a different story.

So what do I like? I like the interaction as different folks try to help each other with their machining and related problems. For example, today I asked about building a foucault pendulum. I received answers from 3 countries and one from less than 5 miles down the road. All of it great advice delivered in a friendly manner.

dp
12-09-2010, 08:58 PM
Speaking of which I just realized I didn't describe the bearing so I edited my post. A solution from a 16-year old :)

Rustybolt
12-09-2010, 08:59 PM
I agree a classified topic here would be interesting, however i,m sure the revenue generated for the magazines is needed, and i,m fine with that.



Have you seen the size of the classified area in the magazines? They'd be better off having classifieds here and charging a fee.

squirrel
12-09-2010, 09:18 PM
Adding a classified section to this site would not hurt magazine ad sales at all. eBay and the internet is an extremely small market segment that is only used by bargain shoppers. After waisting years selling on eBay and the internet we switched to tradional print trade publication advertisement and our sales now exceed eBay sales along with google, Bing/Yahoo both CPC & organic search results.

Bringing a swap section to this site would damage its congenial atmosphere, this is evident from all the hostility you find on the forums with swap sites and eBay, this is exemplified from the examination of the BS feedback left by childish buyers that do not get a partial refund after the sale on eBay or the forum. They also start "do not buy" lists on forums, involve the moderators if they do not get their way and so on.

If it ain't broke don't fix it......................

lazlo
12-09-2010, 09:23 PM
Bringing a swap section to this site would damage its congenial atmosphere, this is evident from all the hostility you find on the forums with swap sites and eBay

I've had nearly 20 transactions with the denizens of PracticalMachinist, almost all are regular contributors, and with the exception of 1 seller (who was not a contributor and was quickly exposed as purveyor of junk), every transaction was flawless.

Robo
12-09-2010, 09:24 PM
Honestly I really enjoy the forum just the way it is but would love to have a for sale forum included. I am not going to lose sleep over it either way....

lazlo
12-09-2010, 09:32 PM
Honestly I really enjoy the forum just the way it is but would love to have a for sale forum included. I am not going to lose sleep over it either way....

Agreed. There's really no practical way for Village Press to add a For Sale forum, and continue charging for classifieds in the magazines.

AllThumbz
12-09-2010, 09:57 PM
There are classified sections on PM, Chaski, ShopFloorTalk and Hobby-Machinist that you can use.

Nelson

jep24601
12-09-2010, 10:26 PM
There are classified sections on PM, Chaski, ShopFloorTalk and Hobby-Machinist that you can use.Nelson
... and not having a classified section in this forum just encourages people to abandon it and go to those other forums.

squirrel
12-09-2010, 10:35 PM
Agreed. There's really no practical way for Village Press to add a For Sale forum, and continue charging for classifieds in the magazines.

It would not hurt their print advertisement sales, sellers that buy advertising have a product worth selling in volume. New products in swap shop ads will never exceed volumes produced by mail order or B&M. Swap shop sellers typically have one or small number of items unless they are buying on eBay and reselling on the swaps.

dp
12-09-2010, 10:48 PM
How do you reconcile me posting a free classified ad to sell a like new Kurt vise for $350 while charging Glacern for posting a similar ad for a new Glacern vise? It makes no sense given VP would make nothing from the classified ad and could lose business from commercial advertisers who lose sales.

Paul Alciatore
12-09-2010, 10:55 PM
Other sites have free classifieds.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/index.php

Look about half way down the list of forums in the Commerce section. I have used it and it does get attention.

dp
12-09-2010, 10:59 PM
Other sites have free classifieds.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/index.php

Look about half way down the list of forums in the Commerce section. I have used it and it does get attention.

True - but I don't think Don is trying at the same time to sell ad space in magazines he's publishing.

Doc Nickel
12-09-2010, 11:48 PM
My six cents:

A) The magazine classifieds are virtually irrelevant. Hardly any individual items are listed, and the ad is at a minimum three months old by the time you see it.

B) The readers of the magazine and the regulars on this board are not necessarily the same group. I'm quite certain there are readers of the magazine that have never visited the site, and I'm certain there are regulars of this board who have rarely or never read the magazine.

Adding a classifieds section here would have virtually no effect on the magazine classifieds.

C) PM's classifieds is one of that sites' most popular sections. This board makes revenue via page views, meaning that a new, popular board means more ad impressions and more income.

D) Similar to an experience noted above, I've bought better than $2,000 in tooling from various PM members this year alone, and probably a similar number last year. The only problems I've had have been my own fault- typically trying to keep from paying $150 in shipping on a $50 item.

Bottom line: A classifieds section is by no means vital or necessary, but it would be a benefit both for the hosts and the readers.

Doc.

lbhsbz
12-10-2010, 12:15 AM
I've been a lurker here for quite a while and just recently signed up. In my opinion, this is the best non professional machinist site there is. Every other "best" forum I go to has a classifieds section. I think it would complete this website. If they're concerned with revenue, limit certain forums...including the classifieds, to those who donate a small amount per year.....like a premium membership kinda deal....or include this priviledge with a magazine subscription. Most of us here would have absolutely no problem at all throwing $20 or $30 a year towards this site in exchange for the incredible wealth of information, as well as a place to buy/sell/trade tooling and machines. We're hobbiests for the most part, which means we probably don't see much income from our machines. Bargain priced used tooling is what we buy, and it only makes sense that a home shop machinist site help their members in this manner. Of course, it's up to the owners of the site, and they don't have to justify their descisions.

Rustybolt
12-10-2010, 07:49 AM
How do you reconcile me posting a free classified ad to sell a like new Kurt vise for $350 while charging Glacern for posting a similar ad for a new Glacern vise? It makes no sense given VP would make nothing from the classified ad and could lose business from commercial advertisers who lose sales.



I don't know. How does CNC Zone do it?

gda
12-10-2010, 08:19 AM
How do you reconcile me posting a free classified ad to sell a like new Kurt vise for $350 while charging Glacern for posting a similar ad for a new Glacern vise? It makes no sense given VP would make nothing from the classified ad and could lose business from commercial advertisers who lose sales.



How many vises do you have? Probably one off. People looking for something and not finding it may get impatient and decide to buy new from one of the banner ads. Someone might be looking for a vise and see a tool holder that they did not know they needed until they saw it on the banner. The dynamics of internet commerce are a little more that a zero sum game.

wierdscience
12-10-2010, 09:00 AM
How do you reconcile me posting a free classified ad to sell a like new Kurt vise for $350 while charging Glacern for posting a similar ad for a new Glacern vise? It makes no sense given VP would make nothing from the classified ad and could lose business from commercial advertisers who lose sales.

Easy,you only have one forsale,Glacern doesn't sell used ones,the used one will still sell on another site anyway that may not have a Glacern ad flashing up top which might lead the potential buyer to spend a few bucks more and get a new vise just as good as a Kurt from Glacern for a few bucks less:) Free market=Free will.

wierdscience
12-10-2010, 09:05 AM
I said it before,but a lot of us including myself have stuff.

Stuff that is too good to throw away,but won't sell for enough on Ebay to make it worthwhile that other members could use and would be glad to find.

vpt
12-10-2010, 09:06 AM
Whats all this talk about a magazine? This forum has a magazine? Something that can be bought at a store or online?

alanganes
12-10-2010, 10:19 AM
Anyone that has been here for a while knows this discussion comes up from time to time. I don't think that George is necessarily opposed to the idea, but the company that owns this site and the magazines is. I don't want to put words into his mouth, but if you do a search or two on the topic you will likely find the more detailed reasons George has given in the past for their reluctance to have a "classifieds" section.

But I agree, I'd love to see a classified section here. It's a great way to turn your old stuff into new stuff...

dp
12-10-2010, 10:27 AM
Easy,you only have one forsale,Glacern doesn't sell used ones,the used one will still sell on another site anyway that may not have a Glacern ad flashing up top which might lead the potential buyer to spend a few bucks more and get a new vise just as good as a Kurt from Glacern for a few bucks less:) Free market=Free will.

Jeez - you guys don't know how to play the game. The OP asked why don't they and y'all are answering as if the question is why should they. If he had asked why should they I'd have as many reasons for it.

Now go back to your shops and think of answers to the question asked and don't answer the question not asked :D

George Bulliss
12-10-2010, 10:32 AM
Actually, Docís post does a pretty good job of describing how I feel about having a classified section. However, Iím just one small cog in the machine and there is a long list of battles ahead of this one.

George

Mcgyver
12-10-2010, 12:01 PM
Agreed. There's really no practical way for Village Press to add a For Sale forum, and continue charging for classifieds in the magazines.


depends on what percentage of subscribers tune into the site...my guess is its small. Magazine classified i think are a bit like buggy whips; pre-internet a great way to connect on esoteric interests/need....I can see the politics though, even if classifieds is a small section of revenue it might be hard sell paying for a forum that cannibalized it

Robert like you the transactions have been excellent via PM. I've close to that deals over the years and never had a problem, without except the ones I've dealt with were first class, some of whom I've had the pleasure to meet. In a way its to be expected; they're stakeholders in their reputations, the forum matters vs anonymous ebayers.

Still it would be nice to have here, Don is clamping down on small stuff and old stuff (although tooling is still ok) and the other sites, well, it would be nice to have here :)

MichaelP
12-10-2010, 03:22 PM
I completely agree with Doc Nickel. I can see nothing but positive if we have the classified section here. It'll attract more members and, as a result, the site will be more desirable for commercial ads. IMO, it's a win-win situation for both the members and HSM. The main problem will be to keep the paid commercial ads at bay.

garagemark
12-10-2010, 04:39 PM
This thread has run it's course. Post #33 is the big man's answer, though he agrees with the idea (post 24). I know what it's like to have to pick your battles, and this one just ain't it for George right now. Nuff said.

Time to go make something in the shop.

Movin on,
Mark