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Oso
12-17-2003, 05:47 PM
I have seen Neil's response.

I don't think it was appropriate.

I never expressed 'disgust", and don't intend to. I tried to help , with suggestions.

You see what I got.

I think it illustrates a serious problem, which has nothing to do with me.

I don't intend to take up the "kind offer", yet.

But I will bear in mind the reasoning or lack thereof that went into it when making my decisions, both for subscriptions. and for advertising money which I might have spent with the magazines.

I do intend to publicise the response I got further and wider beyond this forum.

I fully expect to be kicked off this forum, and for what?

Nothing in the slightest bit offensive.

BillH
12-17-2003, 05:51 PM
You specifically called out Neil, the Editor, as a problem. That would do it.
I enjoy the magazine myself, even if I dont do any of the projects, I still enjoy them.

Oso
12-17-2003, 06:03 PM
he picks the articles........we don't

09 also mentioned that.

Joe Rice would never have done that.

Joe Rice is gone....


We noticed.

[This message has been edited by Oso (edited 12-17-2003).]

BillH
12-17-2003, 06:10 PM
Or, it could be that there is not much to pick from? It is a lot of work to do one of those articles, I imagine it can be quite difficult at times to get people to come forward, and do them.
Its like when I do a project, If I had to stop after every step, document what I did, take pictures, It would be a nightmare, take 10 times as long to do soemthing.
And since I started to document my Live steam locomotive for my web page, I noticed I spend a lot of time on the computer updating the web page.

[This message has been edited by BillH (edited 12-17-2003).]

op9
12-17-2003, 06:29 PM
Well I got up this morning hoping for something a lot better than a closed thread.....Maybe thats a practical consideration as it was becoming long but I was sincerely hoping for a more subtle common sense response from Neil. You were quite vocal there Oso, but obviously got something to say which is your right in any free speaking society. I bloody well volunteered to go to a war for the rights of a small group of people who had their rights curtailed....think a lot of people from our 2 countries have as well!!!

Anyway I'll await for my last issue of HSM and then MW from then on.......hoping my already long wait isn't further extended by current events.

Hopefully talk to you ALL again and no hard feelings.


------------------
Rod
www.canded.com.au

rmatel
12-17-2003, 07:27 PM
Being a newbee(3yrs) amateur, I have to agree with those who find the mags lacking in material from which to learn. I once subscribed to both but dropped HSM because "how" or "why" or "when" explanations were few and far between. "Drill a hole as described in the plans" did little to educate me. Either that or the author expected me to have 20yrs experience, so I dropped the subscription. The last few issues of MW have also been lacking in info for me. Usually I learn something from the "tips & tricks" articles, but again I'm wondering if its worth the cost of the mag.

Maybe part of the problem is that there are not enough people interested in "HOME" machining to support a "something for everyone" magazine [remember, Reader's Digest pays for jokes].
Maybe CNC has reduced the number of people who like to use their hands and minds to create something.

Neil, for what its worth, I think your final response to the original thread was inappropriate. If that offends you, you have my n&a in my profile. Do what you will.

Bob



[This message has been edited by rmatel (edited 12-17-2003).]

IOWOLF
12-17-2003, 07:32 PM
Bill, you forgot about cleaning the lathe, mill, etc. every time you take a pic.

I swear those guys have 2 of everything one for work , one for pics.

op9
12-17-2003, 07:41 PM
Well well RM...."from the mouths of babes".......I am a newer newbie and that was the whole gist of my original thread...an observation from one on the relative periphery. AND by the sound of it MW may be found lacking as well........we'll see. All I was looking for was confirmation about HSM and the hope that someone in their ivory tower would try a new tack.

Anyhow I gotta get out there and earn some money. Lets see what happens to this thread!!

Rod http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

gunsmith
12-17-2003, 09:05 PM
It's nice to see that we have Neils attention. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif I would suggest Neil, that you begin asking questions and get this magazine sorted to the point were strings like that will gather less responce. I for one would like to see a better and more advanced publication. You may not want to admit it, but some of the material published over the last few year was rather kindergarden-ish and not related to the title of the publication. Over the last 5 years I probably purchased less than 6 magazines. My subscription came by way of my daughter as a well meaning Christmas gift. I did not have the heart to tell her that I really did not buy this magazine any more due to it's poor content. In any case Neil why don't you turn the last string into something constructive as I'm sure all of us intended it to be. You have our attention, now you have to figure out how to keep it.

spope14
12-17-2003, 09:26 PM
I have received the magazine for 16 years in one way or another. Never really noticed anything diferent or whatever. Some mag issues and even months series are better than others in my opinion, but this is by my TASTE AND PREFERENCE.

There may be projects I am not into, information I know, or things unrelated to me in one or a few in a row, but this does not mean this is not if interest to others.

I have seen on the threads listed for the two plus years of my visits to this site,questions about projects people love that I could not care a dit about, but is this bad? no PERSONAL PREFERENCE!!!!!

Yet, other projects I just love, and others may hate.

I love my HSM Magazine!!!!!! Years later, something I dismissed may become something I remember, and now wish to try.

You see, it is personal preference. Suggestions, I would imagine, are welcome, as are writers.

I have written technical and entertainment many times. It is not eaay, takes time, thought, and planning. Just FYI, articles do not just "Appear".

Enough said.

pgmrdan
12-17-2003, 09:32 PM
.

[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 03-08-2004).]

G.A. Ewen
12-17-2003, 11:55 PM
This is where it came from (in my opinion)

"It's not really about authors. We don't know the authors, we only see the published ones, not the rejects. For all we know, a QC gearbox article was passed over for the science project.

It is ALL the editor. That would be Neil. The editor does not HAVE to publish an article. The choice of articles is not yours or mine, its the choice of Neil, based on the editorial slant he wants in the mag.

If he wants not to review articles, they will continue to sometimes have big mistakes. If he wants science projects, thats what we get."

When I read these remarks I was offended and they were not even directed at me. To suggest that Neil would pass up a QC gearbox article for what you call a "science project" for his own personal reasons is ridiculous, insulting and rude.

Up to now this forum has had a friendly tone even when there were differences of opinions. If you want to be a **** disturder do it somewhere else.

This is my last word on this subject. To try to reason with the unreasonable is a waste of time.

JCHannum
12-17-2003, 11:56 PM
Any project in the magazines can be scaled up or down to build it on the equipment available. The concept and methods are the same regardless of size.

op9
12-18-2003, 12:34 AM
I'm back from a day working in the warm Aussie sun!!

Anyway fellas it looks like us who dared to say that something may need attention, are now wearing the "black hats". However you will notice that some people out there unreservedly praising the mag (white hats) are also considering submitting articles....well good on em.....thats great that they have something to offer and now Neil will have a lot more to choose from. (Still think however Neil needs to be able to contend with dissention in the ranks a lot better than he has shown already, and cater for ground swells or a little voice in the wilderness as the case may be.) Lets hope "us guests" on this forum will notice a change for the better and I get to learn to make more pretty little models!!
.....until the next installment.
Rod http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

wierdscience
12-18-2003, 01:07 AM
"Where did this come from?" Duuuuuuuhhhh!
"BLACKHATS" HMMMM...SELFPROCLAIMED DO-GOODERS!! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//mad.gif

I'll CALMLY IGNORE all the evil voices,I AM LIKE A PEBBLE OHMMMMMMMMM......the wind moves around me,ohmmmmmmmm.... for now http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

op9
12-18-2003, 01:23 AM
No no "Weird" I (maybe we) will admit to being a stirrer now....and being a blackhat, but what started as a mere observation, turned into something much grander AND more importantly has caused some motivation. So if I am to be "sent to Coventry" I will take it with some satisfaction.

See us Aussies always do our bit to help our US brothers (and sisters) and we expect nothing in return http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

wierdscience
12-18-2003, 01:27 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Oso:
I have seen Neil's response.

"I don't think it was appropriate." YES IT WAS!

"I never expressed 'disgust", tried to . YES YOU DID!

"You see what I got." YOU ASKED FOR IT!

"I think it illustrates a serious problem, which has nothing to do with me." IT HAS PLENTY TO DO WITH YOU,YOU SAID IT!

I fully expect to be kicked off this forum, and for what? I THINK NEIL IS A BIGGER MAN THAN YOU THINK!
Nothing in the slightest bit offensive. OH REALLY?

</font>

Oso
12-18-2003, 01:35 AM
GA, it is your right to think whatever you want.
You can be offended at facts.

You can call me a **** (disturber). You are the one now calling names, do not accuse me of this action, as I have not done it.

You have, Neil almost has.

Frankly I am surprised, it is not how I would want to represent my employer. That is his choice of words, your words are yours.

The facts are exactly as I said, and not one thing you said disproves them.

The editor is the person who decides what goes in the mag. So we have a right to believe that those were Neils choices.

I said we do not know what was passed over.

But we have Neil's word RIGHT HERE that there are plenty of really good articles...so the ones several folks have mentioned as substandard must be representative of them. They must presumably be representative of where Neil wants to take the magazines.

What other conclusion could be drawn from that?


Weirdscience, you are being silly, as is Neil.

No good deed goes unpunished.

I think I will cancel my subs myself. I will not wait for Neil. All I need to do is not renew.

Signing off and may the playground never be muddy for you.

[This message has been edited by Oso (edited 12-18-2003).]

wierdscience
12-18-2003, 01:51 AM
So far I count two people complaining about the content of HSM and MW just two out of how many on this BBS?

I don't think it adds up to a real big problem because if it did more people would be complaining than just TWO.

op9
12-18-2003, 02:02 AM
Hmm OK if you say so....I was damn sure there were a few more blackhats, or maybe a khaki or two.

However Wierd, I think you now are prolonging an argument which is not going to be solved by either side admitting the opposite. So us negatives agree with each other, positives likewise and mutually we agree to disagree!!

"Others" can take what they can from it and at the end of the day everyone will follow their heart (or wallet).

I'm being the eternal optimist as I can see a little spark of progress. So hurrah for the Wright Bros and lets get on with something a little more interesting as this topic now bores me!!

Rod.

Jaymo
12-18-2003, 02:11 AM
I would like to see articles on gunsmithing, home foundry(after all, you gotta machine those castings), and of course, using machine tools to make items useful to most people. but that's just my opinion. Don't really have any complaints, except that I wish it came out monthly. Am thinking of picking up a subscription to MW as well.
I found the metal heat treating article to be very interesting. Can't wait for my next issue. Sure would like to see more automobile related articles also.
I picked up the first issue of Projects In Metal, at a gunshow a few months ago for $2.00 US. That was a great magazine. Packed from cover to cover with good info. Would love to have all the issues.

wierdscience
12-18-2003, 02:11 AM
OSO and op9 I didn't mean to p--- on your birthday cake,but you should realize that its one thing to offer advice or make a suggestion and quite another to out and out blame someone for all evil.

If I have offended either of you than I am sorry and I apologise,but I think Neil is owed and apology too,after all he did not deserve what he recieved if you had that kind of beef with him you should have talked to him privately instead of here.

Again I apoplogise if I offended either of you and hope this can all be ironed out.

We are a very small community in the world,one of the primary reasons I hang out here is becuase I have very few machinist friends with whom to talk to,very few people share the same intrests with me.

Realize we are part of a dying Hobby/Profession and depend on each other for support and should not engage in such petty bickering and name calling.I consider all of you as my extended brothers and sisters and beg of you to reconsider.

Jaymo
12-18-2003, 02:12 AM
Neil, If you'll just keep my subscription coming to me, we'll get along just fine http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

op9
12-18-2003, 02:16 AM
OK Weird no probs from here downunder cool:

Rod

spope14
12-18-2003, 08:22 AM
W science, good reply.

Thanks.

Back to designing a three cylinder air motor....

NAMPeters
12-18-2003, 11:44 AM
wierdscience I will take exception to your comment "Realize we are part of a dying Hobby/Profession." We are not dying just changing in character and scope. Thanks to the efforts of the people on this board, my namesake Neil and the likes of Sir John we will survive and prosper. Just look at blacksmithing, an old craft, which is still alive and well today.

------------------
Neil Peters

wierdscience
12-18-2003, 10:37 PM
Well okay,I'll meet you half way its not dying its just on life support for now http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif