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aostling
12-17-2010, 12:07 AM
On the West Coast of the South Island in September, I stopped at Shantytown. I first saw this tourist attraction in 1972 when it was just getting started. I think it is declined since those early days, and overpriced. But I did enjoy looking in the locomotive shed of the bush railway they run on the property. It was lunch time and there was nobody else around.

This may be the Climax #1203, one of three locomotives in service. http://www.shantytown.co.nz/Shantytown/Our_Engines_IDL=3_IDT=1496_ID=9011_.html has some details about it.


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/Shantytownlocomotive.jpg




I know nothing about this locomotive, which is apparently being restored. Perhaps a switching engine, or a logging engine?


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/Maori.jpg

The Artful Bodger
12-17-2010, 12:28 AM
Allan, are you sure that is a locomotive not a traction engine? It does seem to have been registered for road use.

[Later]

Aha! I found this on the Shantytown site;;


30 September 2002 - Traction Engine
The Maori was the number one exhibit at the J & H McLaren 125th Anniversary Rally. The rally was held to mark the the first traction engine being built by the two brothers. This machine their number 1, left their Midland works on 20 March 1877. Of all the Mclarens built 65% of them were exported; Today New Zealand has the largest number of McLarens surviving than any other country in the world.



So not only is it a traction engine it was the first Maclaren built! Well maybe as I find that paragraph a little ambiguous, maybe it is Mclaren traction engine #227.

That was a very nice find Alan!

aostling
12-17-2010, 12:47 AM
John,

A traction engine, of course. I guess what threw me was the name, The Maori sounding something like what you might call an express train.

The Artful Bodger
12-17-2010, 12:57 AM
John,

A traction engine, of course. I guess what threw me was the name, The Maori sounding something like what you might call an express train.

Allan, the name was used on a long line of inter-island express steamers (Christchurch to Wellington).

aostling
12-17-2010, 01:11 AM
Allan, the name was used on a long line of inter-island express steamers (Christchurch to Wellington).

It's good to see the nameplate, at least, live on.

The fate of the Kingston Flyer is not optimistic (it is in receivership). That engine was a real delight, the first time I saw it steaming across the plain from Kingston to Lumsden back in the 1970s. But now the two engines on that tourist line sit unprotected in the yard at Kingston, deteriorating in the rains. The engine in the foreground was built in 1927 at the Hillside Workshops (Christchurch), according to the plaque on its side.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/KinstonFlyer.jpg

Yow Ling
12-17-2010, 02:01 AM
Checked carjam.co.nz rego ML227

Vehicle details
Make: CUSTOMBUILT
Model: J & H MCLAREN
Year: 1904
Main colour: Blue
Vehicle type: Mobile Machine
Body style: Mobile Machine
CC rating: 700cc
Fuel type: Other
Country of origin: United Kingdom

The Artful Bodger
12-17-2010, 02:50 AM
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/KinstonFlyer.jpg

Allan, I understand the NZGR Ab Pacific class was the most sucessful of a range of locomotives built in NZ. They were widely used on passenger services and freight duties all over the country although heavier locomotives took over the heavier and longer distance runs early in the lifespan of the Abs.

I used to go to school behind an Ab!

winchman
12-17-2010, 03:54 AM
From such humble beginnings (^^) to this?

http://blogs.msdn.com/blogfiles/johnmullinax/WindowsLiveWriter/98e2f78430a0_8C76/mclaren%20mp4%2012-c_2.jpg

Circlip
12-17-2010, 04:30 AM
If the "Maori" is a Mac loweran, it's a mongrel. Someone has fitted a "Fowler of Leeds" coverplate to the steam chest.

Regards Ian.

Peter S
12-17-2010, 07:23 AM
Ian,

I am pretty sure that the traction engine is a McLaren with a very early cylinder. Remember that J&H McLaren were right next door to Fowlers, in Leeds. According to Ronald H. Clark (writing of the c.1876 single cylinder engines): "the distinctive semi-circular valve chest cover by which these early McLarens can be distinguished from quite an appreciable distance". I can't make out the name, but the cylinder looks very similar to an early McLaren in the book quoted.

Great to see this early engine! I wish I knew more about it.

The world's oldest known surviving McLaren (albeit not complete) does apparently reside in NZ (though it recently made a visit to the Dorset Steam Fair), but I am not sure if this is that engine. I don't think so.


Winchman,

There were and are plenty of McLaren traction engines and rollers in NZ...but they were made in Leeds, England. The remnants of this company closed in the 1960's. On the other hand, Bruce McLaren was a Kiwi who established his company in England, though it passed into other hands after his death. Same name, but not related as far as I know. (Apologies for stating the obvious if you already know this :) )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren

John Stevenson
12-17-2010, 07:38 AM
Wrong McLaren, try this one .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%26H_McLaren_%26_Co.

gary350
12-17-2010, 10:11 AM
Check out this video.

http://gsrj.com/steam-preview.html

Check out the 2 hour long TV show on NPT or buy the 2 hour DVD.

Rent a steam locomotive for a day in Ely Nevada.

aostling
12-17-2010, 11:15 AM
This blow-up shows the flyball governor on the McLaren traction engine. That should have been my clue that it is not a locomotive.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/flyball.jpg


I just noticed I had this photo, which the Shantytown website http://www.shantytown.co.nz/Shantytown/Our_Engines_IDL=3_IDT=1496_ID=9011_.html identifies as its Gertie L508. The photo of the cab in the OP was of this engine, not the Climax 1203 as I stated.


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/Gertie.jpg

Circlip
12-17-2010, 11:38 AM
Yer spot on Peter S, now that Aostling has given us a bigger photo, it also qualifies Sir J's J.H Mc. On a further blow up, you can now read " & H McLaren"

Firm I worked for in the seventies had a satelite based in Sweet Street, could have been the original works.

Regards Ian

aostling
12-17-2010, 12:35 PM
Not too far off the subject, these two photos show the remains of a hoisting engine, almost within the city limits of Wellington. To get there I took a city bus to the end of the line, hitched a ride to the Karori Golf Course, then walked eastward over two steep ridges until I came to the ruins which I'd noticed on a topographical map. I was wearing heavy logging boots I'd bought three months earlier at the factory in Scappoose, Oregon, and I was glad to get barefooted in the warmth of the January (1972) sun. There was nobody else within miles -- I took these photos on the self-timer.

John, do you know if these artifacts are still on the site?

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/AllanatKarorigoldfields1972.jpg


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/readingbytheboiler.jpg

The Artful Bodger
12-17-2010, 12:44 PM
Allan, I must confess that in all my time in this city I have never made the hike over to the old gold diggings. I have no idea if those bits of iron are still there.

I would not dispute that is was a hoisting engine but I would suggest it also drove those ball mills in the background!

aostling
12-17-2010, 12:49 PM
I would not dispute that is was a hoisting engine but I would suggest it also drove those ball mills in the background!

You are surely correct. There was no winding drum, nor any shaft that I can recall.

The Artful Bodger
12-17-2010, 04:41 PM
You are surely correct. There was no winding drum, nor any shaft that I can recall.

Allan, I have vague recollections reading that that is not even the mine site! If I recall correctly the company went bust while the machinery was being moved to the site and that is were the carriers dumped it. The real mine site has a quartz stamper battery, remains, did you see that?

John

P.S. We had an offer on the house, its 60% of what you offered!:) Should we let them have it or hold out to hear from your lawyers?:D

aostling
12-17-2010, 05:41 PM
P.S. We had an offer on the house, its 60% of what you offered!:) Should we let them have it or hold out to hear from your lawyers?:D

What's the apt expression, "a bird in the hand --?"

That's not a bad price you are getting, compared to Wellington prices of a just few years ago. You'll miss that fantastic view, though, when you move to Ashburton.

Now that you mention it, I didn't see any signs of mining activity at the Karori site -- no foundations, ruined buildings, no stamp mill. Finally, after 38 years, your explanation makes sense of it all.

The Artful Bodger
12-17-2010, 06:16 PM
What's the apt expression, "a bird in the hand --?"

That's not a bad price you are getting, compared to Wellington prices of a just few years ago. You'll miss that fantastic view, though, when you move to Ashburton.

Yes, we will be quite chuffed if the sale actually goes ahead (it is not a formal offer as yet) at that amount alone is enough for a reasonable retirement in New Zealand, especially in Ashburton! We will be able to see the Southern Alps from there.

P.S. For that price they do not get the shaper!

John

Asquith
12-18-2010, 04:48 AM
Allan,

Your posts are always very welcome.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/Asquith1/September%202010/McL01.jpg
This is what remains of what is believed to be the oldest McLaren in the world. Since it has Works No. 2 (1877), I think it’s a fairly safe claim.

It was sent over from New Zealand to join the big McLaren gathering at the Great Dorset Steam Fair this year.

An unusual feature is that the cylinder can slide on its mounting (it has dovetails). This was a refinement to accommodate expansion.

Clickable thumbnail:-
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/Asquith1/September%202010/th_McL02.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/Asquith1/September%202010/McL02.jpg)
This is the oldest working McLaren, made in 1878. This was brought over from Kinsale, Ireland for the event, by Tim and Rory Nagle.

aostling
12-18-2010, 08:23 AM
It was sent over from New Zealand to join the big McLaren gathering at the Great Dorset Steam Fair this year.


I shiver to think of the postage on that parcel. Very nice photo of the McLaren and the gathering. Dorset, Devon, and Cornwall I have not yet visited, but hope to see them in the next year or two.

terry_g
12-18-2010, 09:55 AM
Here are a couple Pictures of a traction engine in Prince Rupert.
I could not see a name on it anywhere. It was made in Brantford Canada
I hope they restore it some day. Its mostly complete and not too badly rusted.


Terry

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5042/5270745169_8be5174cff_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5089/5270745177_fe857df0f1_b.jpg

Peter S
12-19-2010, 08:12 PM
Terry,

Thanks for the Canadian? roller photos. Interesting to see the crankshaft has a centre main bearing, also has two cylinders (not compound). Are those oil can holders? :)

---------------------

Back to NZ locomotives - one of my favourites is the class "Ka". These 4-8-4 locomotives were designed and built here from 1939-1950 at the Hutt Workshops, and were modern and powerful machines with roller bearings, feed water heaters, streamlining etc.

What most overseas readers won't appreciate is how 'small' they are compared to the monsters seen in Europe, North America etc. The NZ rail gauge is 3' 6", so try and imagine scaled-down locomotives. None the less a "Ka" is an impressive beast in my opinion, they are all-business, a compact design with lots of power, I call them pocket battleships! :) About 1400 max theoretical hp.

Here is Ka 942 at Auckland sometime in the 1990's:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/PeterS/Ka942atAuckland.jpg

Peter S
12-19-2010, 08:15 PM
Another well-known class in NZ is the 4-8-2 "Ja", the zenith of NZ loco design, built between 1946 and 1956 at the Hillside Workshops in Dunedin, and also 16 oil-fired versions built in Glasgow in 1950. The latter were intended as a stopgap measure for secondary mainline power during the change to diesel-electric (decided in 1950). A lighter, less powerful locomotive than the Ka seen above. Roller bearings through-out, including crank pins allowed high mileages.

Here seen recently at Mainline Steam in Parnell, Auckland, three Ja's:


Shiney, Ja 1275:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/PeterS/Ja127501.jpg


Original, Ja 1267:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/PeterS/Ja126701.jpg


Almost finished, Ja ??:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/PeterS/JatParnell.jpg

The Artful Bodger
12-19-2010, 08:32 PM
Peter, somewhere there is a photograph of a team of elephants from Wirths' Circus rescueing a traction engine that got bogged down in a NZ river. I can not find it on line but I remember seeing it 40 or more years ago and much more recently in one of those reminisces magazine that are published in NZ.

Do you have a copy?:)

[Later]

Here is a reference to it:

P 124-photos
Nurse Grace, with Rowan Hill 1909
Its not often a traction engine gets stuck in the Waipawa River, even less does one find a handy team of elephants to pull it out. The traction engine appears to be reversing, puffing smoke, the 'anchor' elephant pushing, and five up-front pulling, compliments of Wirth's Circus.



from http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~babznz/between2rivers6.html

aostling
12-19-2010, 09:42 PM
... built between 1946 and 1956 at the Hillside Workshops in Dunedin ..

Peter,

I had the mistaken notion that Hillside Workshops were in Christchurch. My friend Graeme Butler did a university project in those workshops, and I must have assumed that they were close to the Ilam campus.

Did NZR have a workshop in Christchurch?

The Artful Bodger
12-19-2010, 09:46 PM
Did NZR have a workshop in Christchurch? Yes, at Addington. A whole generaton of Kiwis would not have been able to learn anything without the numerous NZGR workshops around the country!:)

Loco112
05-29-2013, 11:44 PM
Terry,


Back to NZ locomotives - one of my favourites is the class "Ka". These 4-8-4 locomotives were designed and built here from 1939-1950 at the Hutt Workshops, and were modern and powerful machines with roller bearings, feed water heaters, streamlining etc.

Here is Ka 942 at Auckland sometime in the 1990's:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/PeterS/Ka942atAuckland.jpg


The complete set of factory blueprints for those K class locos were once sold by a NZ native who lived here in the USA. There were about 300+ drawings, the cost was ov average abouy $5-7 each back in the 90's, so it would probably be about $8 or so per page by now, if the owner can be located. If anyone is interested, PM me and I'll try to relocate the gent that had them for you.

Loco112

clive
05-30-2013, 04:05 AM
I don't know if they are still there but Portland Cement which might be called Golden Bay now, near Whangarei, had few steam locos back in the 60's when I was an apprentice there. One was named "The Trout" and had a date of 1867(from memory) on a plaque. I left there in 1970 and it was in running order then. Although most of the work was done by diesel locos they kept the old stuff in good condition. Although it's highly likely the accountants have sold them all for scrap by now.

Asquith
05-30-2013, 04:29 AM
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/Asquith1/Jan%202013/Bay01_zps82f28405.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/Asquith1/media/Jan%202013/Bay01_zps82f28405.jpg.html)

The scrapmen didnít get this one - I rode behind it through the streets of Kawakawa in 2009!

Bay of Islands Railway.

http://www.bayofislandsvintagerailway.org.nz/gabriel.html

clive
05-30-2013, 07:35 AM
Cripes, I thought they would have pulled the rail track out years ago. Nice to see some things haven't changed. Was that one of the Portland ones?

Asquith
05-30-2013, 08:25 AM
Clive,

Yes, according to the link, although I'm confused about the dates. The nameplate says Peckett, 1927.

Mike Burch
05-30-2013, 06:02 PM
I live not far from Kawakawa, and a neighbour of mine is one of the drivers of Gabriel. The Kawakawa vintage railway is flourishing.
Kawakawa is the only town in New Zealand where the railway runs down the middle of the main street. The town's other claim to fame is a bizarre-but-functional public toilet designed by the Austrian artist-cum-architect Friedensreich Hundertwasser! (www.aatravel.co.nz/101/info/Hundertwasser-Toilets.htm)
I also live just down the road from a fully-functioning steam-driven sawmill, powered by its own offcuts. I'll try and get some photos one day.

Asquith
05-30-2013, 06:30 PM
The engine crew when I went for a ride were two very friendly blokes, one from Yorkshire and one from Glasgow IIRC.

Steam-powered sawmill - Collins Bros?......

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/Asquith1/Jan%202013/JDCollins01_zps328f9f91.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/Asquith1/media/Jan%202013/JDCollins01_zps328f9f91.jpg.html)

1956 Ashworth & Parker steam engine driving generator at 500 rpm.

Mike Burch
05-30-2013, 11:28 PM
Collins Bros indeed. As I've lived here for four years now, I really must pay them a visit one day...

clive
05-31-2013, 05:18 AM
Clive,

Yes, according to the link, although I'm confused about the dates. The nameplate says Peckett, 1927.
The one I'm talking about "The Trout"was smaller than that - and painted blue - a pity, a guy who could have told more who used to work on the locos in our workshop died 2 weeks ago

Peter S
06-03-2013, 08:32 AM
I don't know if they are still there but Portland Cement which might be called Golden Bay now, near Whangarei, had few steam locos back in the 60's when I was an apprentice there. One was named "Trout" and had a date of 1867(from memory) on a plaque. I left there in 1970 and it was in running order then. Although most of the work was done by diesel locos they kept the old stuff in good condition. Although it's highly likely the accountants have sold them all for scrap by now.

Clive,

Thanks for posting about the old locomotives at Wilson's Portland Cement. I dug out a few books and started reading......it turns out that quite a few locomotives from Portland Cement have survived, including "Trout". It seems Portland bought-up second-hand locomotives after they were retired from the NZR or PWD.

Here is what I found (open to correction, I am by no means knowledgable on these engines!):

Wilson's Portland Cement No. 1, "Trout": D 143, 2-4-0T, built in 1874 by D. Neilson & Co. Glasgow. Used by Nelson Railway, then Wilson's Portland Cement for a further 52 years, now at Silver Stream Railway, Upper Hutt. Reckoned to be good locomotives, perhaps explains why 9 of these "D-Class" locos survive in various states of repair. A later batch were built in NZ by Scott Bros of Christchurch.

Portland Nos. 8, 7, 9 were 3x 2-4-0, L-Class locomotives. These three (L 219, L 215, L 207, all later re-numbered.....) were built by Avonside Engine Co., Bristol in 1877. Sold by NZR to PWD in 1901-03, bought by Portland 1945-54 and worked until the 1970's, 95 years active service. All three survive in running condition, two were used to pull a special commemorative train (North Island Main Trunk) in 2008. One is at MOTAT in Auckland, one is at Shantytown (L 508, see post # 13 above), one at Silver Stream.

Here are some other surviving Portland locomotives I came across while reading:

No.4, W.G. Peckett & Sons, Bristol, 1955. Apparently the last (new) steam locomotive imported into NZ.

No. 5, Peckett & Sons, 1924.

No. 12, Drewry Car Co, Birmingham, 1967, diesel.

Y 542, Hunslet Engine Co. 1923, 0-6-0, sold to Portland in 1958, now at MOTAT in Auckland.

The Artful Bodger
03-08-2016, 03:36 PM
The Kingston Flyer, now dozing among the weeds while decay sets in to this still very desirable big boys' trainset which includes two locos, passenger cars, utility cars, railway stations tracks etc etc.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1575/24603644393_a681ed0677_z.jpg

aostling
03-08-2016, 07:42 PM
The Kingston Flyer, now dozing among the weeds while decay sets in to this still very desirable big boys' trainset which includes two locos, passenger cars, utility cars, railway stations tracks etc etc.



Looks like one of the locos has been moved, since the 2010 photo in reply #5.

Mike Burch
03-08-2016, 11:57 PM
And I should report that, sadly, Collins steam-powered sawmill referred to above has closed.

Paul Alciatore
03-09-2016, 01:51 AM
All right, I've gotta ask. What are "ball mills" and where are they in the background of which photo? All I see are hills.




Allan, I must confess that in all my time in this city I have never made the hike over to the old gold diggings. I have no idea if those bits of iron are still there.

I would not dispute that is was a hoisting engine but I would suggest it also drove those ball mills in the background!

The Artful Bodger
03-09-2016, 02:45 AM
The ball mills are the iron things in the background! Maybe this link will help...http://stampmillman.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/operable-5-stamper-cromwell-new-zealand.html

aostling
03-12-2016, 02:32 AM
The ball mills are the iron things in the background! Maybe this link will help...http://stampmillman.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/operable-5-stamper-cromwell-new-zealand.html

John,

I did not know at the time (1972) that I was seeing a Berdan ball mill. I found this other photo, showing it in more detail.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/ball%20mill_zpspaasmg2h.jpg (http://s168.photobucket.com/user/aostling/media/ball%20mill_zpspaasmg2h.jpg.html)