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View Full Version : Anyone know this small mill?



sasquatch
12-20-2010, 08:33 PM
Guys, i,m looking at purchasing a small mill, so far the research i,ve done here in Canada i,m considering a mill with the King Label, model #KC-20VS which also appears to be quite similar to the Busy-Bee craftex model #CT129N.
Lathemaster appears to be the same model in the USA which is model#LMT25L.
Any comments -pro and con, concerning these models would be appreciated.
Thanks!!

uncle pete
12-20-2010, 08:35 PM
If it a King Label on it then it was probably sold by "The Tool Place".

Pete

terry_g
12-20-2010, 08:53 PM
I've don't have any experience with King machinery. I have a Busy Bee Tools lathe and milling machine. I had a couple minor warranty issues with both. Busy Bee Tools are great to deal with.

Terry

paulsv
12-21-2010, 09:52 AM
The King version appears to be the same machine as the Grizzly G0704. If you search on that, you will find a lot of information. Like the Grizzly, the King version appears to have the long table option, giving it plenty of X travel. Z axis has a little less room than the X3. I think it's imported by Weiss Machinery, and made in several factories in China. The guys at CNC zone like it a lot, and a number have done CNC conversions. They seem to say that even though it weighs less than the X3, the boxed column and beefier gibs give it better rigidity. They don't like the maximum 2250 rpm spindle speed, and there are plans available for a belt drive (as well as lots of other mods and CNC packages). The belt drive conversion also gets rid of a potential weak spot, which is a plastic gear in the spindle drive train. Plans for the belt drive and lots of other info available here:

http://www.hossmachine.info/G0704.html

And here:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/98694-hosss_g0704.html

I just ordered the G0704 from Grizzly, and there is a (projected) 2 month backorder. Seemed to be a good deal there at $950 with stand. I'm thinking a 4 inch vise (some use a 5 inch, most all agree 6 inches is too big) and a 6 inch rotary table. I think Grizzly now delivers to Canada.

airsmith282
12-21-2010, 10:17 AM
for good ness sake stay clear of king tools youll regret it trust me , now the ct129N well thats a good one i had the Ct129 which was the first one it had a MT 2 the 129N has MT3 a bit more selction there and larger end mill size due to more collet selection. its pretty rigid machine youll like it alot, service and support from busy bee also very awesome, i sold my mill due to the fact it was not making me money , but i still got my 10x18 lathe from them and it makes me money all the time,the ct12 can take some big bites its not no babb toy like the other smaller ones out there that some have, you cant beat the fact to the head it self rotates 90 each way and the coloum stays put as its bolted solid, so you get vertiicial and horzontial capability for milling and drilling with it, if i was going to buy another mill someday this would be the one id go after again, and worth every penny.

i dont know anything about lathemaster stuff sorry,

i also know that dove tail mills like the ct129 and ct129N and other that have a dove tail colum rock, but its more the extra features and benifits,and quaility and the company why i went with the busy bee stuff..

Tait
12-21-2010, 12:38 PM
Appears to be similar to the Weiss line. I have a Weiss WMD30MV - love it. I'd think the 20 would be OK, but the 30 doesn't take up much more space.

http://www.weiss.com.cn/products/wmd30v.php

Also available through precision matthews - http://precisionmatthews.com/PrecisionMatthewsMillingMachineIndex.html

sasquatch
12-21-2010, 07:21 PM
Thanks everyone for the good info,much appreciated.

All machines appear to be out of the same factory, as is usual it seems, with different paint and name badges etc.

So far it appears the reports here about the mill seem positive.
One thing that did throw me was the 1HP rating, --But at the stated 3.2 amps??

paulsv
12-21-2010, 09:59 PM
The motor horsepower is probably overstated, as is often the case. Some mills come with a 600 watt motor (per the motor label), but state 750 watts on the spec plate. Some say nothing on the motor and 750 on the spec plate. Others have come with an 800 watt motor. Seems to be in flux. Do a search for videos on the term g0704 and you'll find videos of the 600 watt machine taking some surprisingly aggressive cuts in steel and aluminum. Seems like the power is adequate for the size of machine it is.

airsmith282
12-22-2010, 07:23 AM
there is alot more then a paint job difference, dont be decived just cause they might come out of the same factory, i have even seen up close for example the princess auto micro mill and busy bee one these are the cheaper models for around 700 bucks and given the choice if that would be all the i could afford id go to the busy bee micro mill the pricessauto one is total junk , you get what you pay for in machinest tools. that is pretty much a comman fact, fit and finish are different quality is different, even if its from the same factory,king tools is like a busy bee clone, now i do have a king chop saw and it is ok but i have also seen many many of their tools and i would not give you 50 cents for most of them .. any one heard of bolton tools , king is the same sort of deal , cheaply built they dont last long and are no better then black and decker and black and decker is not even in the hobby class in anything..

do more homework other then fourms

charlesb
12-22-2010, 10:22 AM
Thanks everyone for the good info,much appreciated.

All machines appear to be out of the same factory, as is usual it seems, with different paint and name badges etc.




That is true about the paint and name badges - but there is more to it than that.

They only have a few foundries in China making the large castings for machinery, which is why all brands from there appear to be related.

But! - The various manufacturers over there do a lot more than just paint and label those castings.

They have to machine the castings to take the bearing journals etc, and grind/treat the ways or whatever - And after that, they must order or make the gears, shafts, motors, bearings and other internal parts necessary - and put it all together.

This is where and why the overall quality of identical-looking machinery from China varies significantly.

The ones who don't do as good a job of machining the casting also tend to assemble the machines with the cheapest and crudest internal parts, etc. ( HF )

Yes, there is a definite and substantial difference in quality between one manufacturer and another in China, no matter how similar the basic castings may appear to be, from brand to brand.

I opened up my relatively pricey Grizzly G4003G lathe to discover a Timkin main spindle bearing in there, for example.

It's another one of those "You get what you pays for" deals. - Don't let the identical-looking castings fool you.

It's what's under the hood that counts, as an old hot-rodder once told me.

Don't get me wrong, by the way... I use the HF stuff too, and get good service out of it, though sometimes I have to consider the HF stuff to be an "assembled kit" that needs to be disassembled and worked over a bit, then put back together again. - The HF HHS tool grinder is a good example of that. It's great value as it comes, but a few hours work on it will make a world of difference in how well it works.

With something as complex and precise as a mill or lathe though, I'm not ready to do a complete make-over and will go for the best quality that I can afford instead, keeping my fingers crossed for good luck.

paulsv
12-22-2010, 03:05 PM
Charlesb makes a very good point, and as I understand it, it is more true in the case of this type of machine (generally referred to as a BF-20 machine, based on the Weiss Machinery model number) than it is of, say, a Sieg, since the Sieg machines are, as I understand it, all manufactured by Sieg, while the BF20 machines are apparently, from what I've read, made for Weiss and others in different factories.