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View Full Version : OT: More Micro$lop Problems!



Tuckerfan
12-16-2003, 06:30 PM
Apparently, they can't get their fecal matter together on their new OS. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/34500.html


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Longhorn in 2005 seems definitely off the agenda, and while it might ship in 2006, it could be delayed until 2008 or 2009, according to Gartner. According to a report of the Gartner Data Center Conference in Information Week, Gartner research VP Tom Bittman puts the likely release window between late 2006 and mid-2008.</font>

BillH
12-16-2003, 07:03 PM
I wouldnt mind an updated Dos OS, ahh the good old days, where you could just copy the OS onto another hard drive, nothing beats simplicity.

Evan
12-16-2003, 07:24 PM
You really, REALLY DON"T want Longhorn. It will have full DRM (Digital Rights Management). This will restrict how, when and what you may use the computer for under their control, not yours. It will be tightly integrated with encryption/decryption hardware at the motherboard level.

It will operate in two modes, "Trusted Mode" and "Untrusted Mode". It will control what software you may run, what documents and e-mails you may open, what music you may play and how many times you may play it, even what web site you may visit. If you want to run a piece of unsigned (untrusted) freeware you will have to re-boot your computer in "untrusted" mode which will mean you can't access any "trusted" wares or content in that mode. In trusted mode you can't access any "untrusted" content. Take good care of your present machine.

DR
12-16-2003, 08:58 PM
So what's with the Microsoft bashing all the time? If you don't like it, buy an Apple.

Thrud
12-17-2003, 01:19 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DR:
So what's with the Microsoft bashing all the time? If you don't like it, buy an Apple.

</font>

Better yet, don't buy their crap at all, get linux for free, or Java Enterprise server from sun for $100 - it works.

Evan
12-17-2003, 01:20 AM
It's not wrong to bash Microsoft if they deserve it, which they undeniably do deserve. Mac has some problems too, it's just not such a target of opportunity.

Tuckerfan
12-17-2003, 06:28 PM
Oh, Evan, there's "Alpha" versions of Longhorn circulating around on the net at the moment*, so if M$ does incorporate the "copyright protection" features you mention, you can bet there'll be a crack for it well before Longhorn is officially released.

*Heck, you can buy it in Malaysia! http://www.windowsbeta.net/comments.php?id=331&catid=2

[This message has been edited by Tuckerfan (edited 12-17-2003).]

BillH
12-17-2003, 06:34 PM
IF it were not for Microsoft office, my games, my cad program, I'd probably would be using debian right now.
Sure theres some word processors for Linux, but none of them have a grammar checker that I know of, and the spell checker is lacking. Games, duh, and Turbo Cad I like too much to abandon for some linux program.

Evan
12-17-2003, 07:29 PM
Tucker,

That alpha is far from complete, it doesn't even have the GUI and doesn't have any of the DRM code. It is not a usable operating system.

The DRM system is not going to be easy to crack, probably impossible. It is hardware based and that hardware is built into the motherboard and the CPU. Look for it in all storage devices as well like the hard drive.

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 12-17-2003).]

Arcane
12-17-2003, 11:49 PM
Here`s something related... scroll down to get to the text. http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3606168&p1=0

Tuckerfan
12-18-2003, 12:42 AM
Evan, It's got a GUI, I've seen screenshots of it. In any case, M$ thought that they could repackage a PC as videogame system (X Box) and keep people from hacking it and returning it to PC status, but they failed in that (See http://www.xboxhacker.net/ for all the "how to" information.), so I'm sure that they're whole copyright protection scam--er, scheme, will fail as well.

Evan
12-18-2003, 02:12 AM
The Xbox used an encryption algorythm with a known predictable flaw. That won't happen again, I assure you. Part of the protection system will involve hardware encryption of data travelling to and from memory, on the fly. I'm well aware of the Xbox exploits. My middle name is (was)"exploits". In times past I cracked the hardware encryption system of a to remain unnamed piece of software. I don't do that stuff anymore.

I keep my good tools under triple DES, or is it Blowfish, or is it ??? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif You try and guess.

My servers run in the DMZ and have not been penetrated, ever, in two years.

The GUI isn't the one that will ship with Longhorn.

BTW, I know of a major undocumented feature of XP... I use it all the time to avoid dialup overtime charges from home. I discovered it. As far as I can tell no one else knows about it.



[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 12-18-2003).]

Thrud
12-18-2003, 03:41 AM
Bill

I am with you. The only reason to have a computer is to frag your friends. There is nothing so sweet as sneaking up behind a buddy and launching a rocket up his tailpipe! Loser buys!

Quake Arena, America's Army, Unreal Tournament'03/'04, Postal 2, RTCW, ...so many frags, so little time. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Tuckerfan
12-19-2003, 01:24 AM
Evan, you may be right about the GUI, but as for X Box, well, we'll have to see. I know that M$ is planning on using nonstandard media size for the CD-ROMs that the games will come on. I also know that the president of Lindows paid out a couple hundred thousand to folks who managed to hack the current versions of X Box, and given the nasty relationship between the folks at M$ and Lindows, I'm sure he'll be only too happy to do the same thing again. That's a pretty big incentive for someone to hack an X Box, doncha think?

I believe that one of M$'s programmers got so frustrated with M$ not correcting a security flaw in one of their programs that he went public with the information in order to force M$ to fix the problem. Also, M$ has a lot of what are called "perma-temps" (i.e. you're a temp, but your contract with the company keeps getting extended to the point where you're really a fulltime employee, but are given none of the benefits), and rumor has it that they've been treated pretty badly since M$ lost a recent lawsuit over the whole "perma-temp" issue. Disgruntled employees have been known to do a lot of damage to companies in the past, I see no reason why M$ should be fortunate enough to never experience such things.

Finally, given that M$ can't make XP secure (I've given up counting the number of "security updates" I've had to download since I switched to it), I find it impossible to believe that they'll be able to hack-proof an X Box system.

Thrud
12-19-2003, 01:40 AM
Tuckerfan:
Xbox 2 will be out soon with a custom CPU designed by IBM just for Mackeral Slurp. You can be assured, it will not ba able to be hacked, again. Lindows was ordered to cease and halt all opeations recently by a swedish court based on findings that they infringed on MS trademarks. MS was just sued for 1Billion+ by RealAudio over them "arranging" for AOL to deny service for Real players. SCO ihas been ordered by a court to prove their ground for their case agaist IBM within 30 days for face the consequences. as a result, a fake attack supposedly took their server down and their "proof" was lost to a DNS attack (never proven), now they (SCO) wants IBM to produce the Proof (yeah, like bite me). Makes me want to puke,

[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 12-19-2003).]

Evan
12-19-2003, 03:04 AM
Tucker,

Like you, I have no confidence that Microsoft could debug a single line of code (nop). However, this is a collaboration between Intel, AMD and Microsoft. They will see to it that it works.

I might have mentioned this before, there is a new "feature" coming in the new 64 bit processors. The Opteron and the Itanium support a special feature that segments ram according to use. Service pack two for XP will enable this. It only allows data to reside in one memory area and program code in another. The two are mutually exclusive. Program code may not be modified and data may not be executed. That means any program that self modifies will fail to run. See ya for most games. I have written programs that created code on the fly as an efficient way to generate a large amount of repetitive code instead of including it in the compile. That won't work. BOOM!

CCWKen
12-20-2003, 03:09 AM
Yea, you guys... LOL. Way back when, it was easy to crack code. I did a few myself. The mainframe stuff was easier yet. Today's software uses some address shifing hoky-poky (thanks to M$) and it makes it harder to decompile or follow the ML.

That was one of the reasons MS wanted to "standardize" C for the microcomputers. THEY could control the called routines. Much easier to write code and take to market than Assembler, but at a loss of control. Ever wonder why the OS keeps getting bigger and bigger? It sure isn't because of user utilities and all those 5+meg chucks of code aren't for writing disk segments. No wonder ya gotta buy a new machine every release.

Tuckerfan
12-21-2003, 05:13 AM
Thrud, Lindows got slapped with the same kind of suit in the US and beat it. Last I heard, they were going after M$ and saying that "Windows" was such a common term that M$ had lost all rights to it. The Swedes tend to be a sensible lot (though from what I've heard, they're government is nuttier than the US's), so we'll have to see how it all plays out.

Evan, you might be right (I've not seen that mentioned in the reviews of AMD's 64 bit processor, but then again, I haven't read too many of them). Of course, I'm sure you remember the flap that happened a few years ago when Intel admitted that they were putting serial numbers on their P3 chips that could be checked on the web, and how much outcry their was over that and how Intel rapidly backed down, this may end up being something similar. (Then again, since Intel keeps admitting to flaws in their chips, but manages to keep selling them, may be not.)

Evan
12-21-2003, 02:27 PM
The serial number function in Intel chips cannot be checked on the web. When that function was introduced starting with the P3 450mhz chip, the BIOS manufacturers responded by providing a utility in the BIOS Setup that disables the "Feature" by default.

The DRM features in Longhorn are an entirely different kettle of fish. You can't disable it and you can't work around it. It will become a fact of life. The content providers will control the use of the content, never mind the fair use provisions of American and Canadian law.