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garagemark
12-28-2010, 10:15 AM
Wife wants a new car. We drove the new 2011 Volkswagen Jetta SEL last night. She loves it. Me? It's just OK. It is the 2.5 five cylinder with all the bells and whistles that can be had on the car.

Anyone have any experience with this car or late model V-dubs in general? I know that they have cheapened the materials some, but really no more than anyone else. It is priced surprisingly low (around 25k) and has plenty of giddy-up.

Thoughts?

Oh, and we will also look at autos like Ford Fusions, Honda Accords, Mazda 6, etc... whether she likes it or not.

THX,
Mark

Rex
12-28-2010, 10:20 AM
That's a big step up from the $16K base price they advertise

Our experience with a 2000 Beetle was mostly good.
The biggest negative was the dealerships here in the DFW area.

winchman
12-28-2010, 10:37 AM
The two biggest jerks I know drive VW Jettas. That's a good enough reason for me to recommend not getting one. :D

vpt
12-28-2010, 10:44 AM
I know they are the biggest pain in the ass to work on! Pull the front fenders and bumper cover to change fog light bulbs! Nice engineering...

But if you buy new and sell when the warranty is up no worries.


Buy a honda, you won't be disappointed.

garagemark
12-28-2010, 11:33 AM
Well I'm a jerk too, so I guess I MUST buy the damn car.;)

I have yet to find a 15.5k Jetta. I have seen their advertised "starting" price, but that must be only when the car is two thirds down the assembly line.

I personally like the Honda's looks better. I have heard little bad about them (although I am told that their quality is slipping like everyone else). I have yet to drive one, but will sometime this week.

Keep going guys, I'm getting good ammunition for the war department to read.

aboard_epsilon
12-28-2010, 12:04 PM
I've heard a few stories that the latest German stuff seems to use oil ...something like 1000 miles per litre is considered normal by BMW.
i hear this is also true for VW. $$$$

and those VW's ..and are fussy about what oil goes in them ..you have to buy the expensive stuff ...not just synthetic but the exact one that they say. $$

The diesel models have some complicated catalyst burn off device, that periodically sets fire to it, to burn off carbon ..and is supplied by a vessel of flammable liquid that has to be topped up. $$

plus you probably have the two mass flywheel. $$

and a couple of 02 sensors ...and lots of other short lifespan gizmo's. $$

as, i study new car tech, i just shake my head knowing, that i wont be buying anything like that ..i fear the bills ..if anything goes wrong.

all the best.markj

tdkkart
12-28-2010, 12:15 PM
We spent a bunch of time shopping in this category this summer.
In my experience VWs tend to have quirky-piddly problems later in life that tend to be expensive to fix. I've owned and worked on a few older ones with issues. The drivetrains keeping going long after the rest of the car falls apart.
Our local dealer is small with a very limited selection so we didn't spend alot of time looking there.

Of the other cars in this same model line, here's what we found came up with.

GM products-never been a GM fan, and in this immediate area their all sold by one bastard family that I would rather take a grenade up the ass than deal with. Problem solved.

Ford Fusion- same platform as the Mazda6, and scarily similar to the Toyota Camry in the interior. They drive fine, and have a good record. Problem I had with them is that Ford only seems to have one person in the styling department lately. I don't want my car to have the same grill as an F250. Neither the wife nor I could get around that feature.

Hyundai Sonata- this ended up being our 2nd choice. I believe they are a good solid car based on reports from a couple people that work in dealerships. Come with a 100,000mile warranty and a decent option list in the base model. They claim to be cheaper than others, but when you add a couple key items that I wanted the price ends up equal to all the rest, which then shows some of it's deficiencys.

Mazda 6- Again, same platform as the Ford, we liked the car, daughter has an '07 that so far(40,000mles) has reliable. Never got a chance to drive one as the salesman was a dickweed. I'm sure they're good cars just never got a chance to find out. And yes, the dealership experience is important to me.

Honda's- not sure what happned here looked, wife didn't like, problems solved.

Toyota Camry was what we ended up with. As I said, it came down to this or the Hyundai, we drove them back to back and the deal breaker was the interior. The Camry vs Sonata interior was like Cadillac vs Chevy. The Hyundai just seemed cheezy/cheap in comparison. Nobody can argue the Camry's quality and resale advantages, AND of the cars that we looked at, the Camry has the highest USA made content, believe it or not.

pgmrdan
12-28-2010, 12:20 PM
Honda Accord.

goose
12-28-2010, 12:27 PM
All new cars have roughly the same warranty coverage, so debates over minor quality issues are irrelevant.

Get what your wife wants.




Gary

tdkkart
12-28-2010, 12:54 PM
All new cars have roughly the same warranty coverage, so debates over minor quality issues are irrelevant.


Yep, 3years, 36,000 miles bumper to bumper. First thing to break in the 37th month at 37,000 miles is gonna piss you off.
So yes, it does make a difference.

GKman
12-28-2010, 01:00 PM
Your wife wants it. What's the question?:D

garagemark
12-28-2010, 01:13 PM
tdkkart, fantastic reply! Thanks. I will print this one for the war wagon to read.

But get this- the wife has been driving a friends Lexus (same body as the Camry), and she doesn't seem to be able to see backward out of the thing. Everything else is fine, and I know it is a quality vehicle; heckling aside.. I have heard other people say that rear visibility is poor (the Lexus has a backup camera). I have driven my sister's Lexus and didn't seem to have the issue, but I won't be prime driver in this one. We still may go look at them and see if it may simply be an adjustment issue for her.

The Honda is high on my list; but I need to get it high on hers. The exterior color she likes (a pearl white) only comes with a baby crap beige interior. Had it been a gray interior, we'd be in... a little deeper. I'll keep trying on this one too.

Mazda 6- the sales guys says (and this is what he is supposed to say) that the 6 never returns for service. It just runs forever. Who knows.

V-Dubs: I have heard about the finicky oil thing. Not happy about that. I have also heard of the proprietary parts that can only be had from VW. Many many parts. Not happy about that either.

Did I mention that I'd rather take poison than buy a new car? Anyone got any?

garagemark
12-28-2010, 01:17 PM
GKman, you are essentially right. But, I have to maintain it and drive it on weekends and trips. You have to know that if it is the correct color and has heated seats, it wouldn't matter to her if it was a Russian tank.

I'm just trying to gently steer her in the right direction without divorce papers. That's why I show her selected text from groups like this. Just a gentle sway that she doesn't even realize. But I shan't push too hard, lest she may fall over. :rolleyes:

Ian B
12-28-2010, 02:14 PM
It's not just German cars that use oil - Toyota diesels do too. I asked my dealer about this, he said it's a known problem, and if it goes above the recommended consumption rate, they'll fix it under warranty.

I asked him how; he replied "we drop a new engine in..."

Ian

Ian B
12-28-2010, 02:29 PM
(double post - deleted)

garagemark
12-28-2010, 03:24 PM
I've had a lot of cars in my day(s), and I have NEVER had an oil eater, with the exception of an old beater I drove the guts out of. I can't see how oil consumption is normal in ANY condition unless something has broken or worn out. Disclaimer- I know little about diesels. But as far as gasoline engines; with todays technologies and machining tolerances, I can't imagine this being acceptable.

Maybe it's just me, but I know an engine can be built that doesn't use oil, or at least no more than a damn tiny amount.

mike os
12-28-2010, 03:30 PM
I own a 2005 passat., 2l diesel... 57k miles & so far spent 10.50 on an exhaust sensor.(not even changed any bulbs).. everything else is just service items.

using the spec oil is expensive 60-70 a change... but only at 16k intervals so not really that bad. ( but that said i have never been a lover of "cheap" oils.... just fail to see the point)

Having owned ford, toyota, honda and mazda's in the past I can honestly say I would need a lot of persuasion to go back to any of them.

Mark Hockett
12-28-2010, 03:33 PM
We have VW' in the shop every day and they are the worst cars we work on. We only work on import cars so I can't comment on American stuff but out of all the import cars VW are at the bottom. At 100K they start to self destruct. They require way more expensive maintenance than a Honda or Toyota and parts are very expensive, we just did a window regulator in a convertable Beetle last week and the part was $600. Before you buy get a quote on some of the maintenance like the cost to replace a timing belt , theres no timing belt on Honda or Toyotas.
Today we have a Golf TDI and a Passat in the shop. The Passat has right around 100K miles and has bad Catalytic convertors which cost $3500 to replace,very common problem. We tried using aftermarket cats on one once and the car was back in 6 months with the same problem. The Golf has around 125K miles and has laundry list of problems including check engine light, bad coolant temp sensor, and a interior water leak.

I would guess that the average cost per repair order on a VW is convertibleToyota'sover double what thconverterse average cost per RO would be on the Honda and Toyota customers.

Alistair Hosie
12-28-2010, 04:47 PM
Three weeks ago my newly ordered Volvo estae arrived . I went to pick it up, it's very nice and quiet and does an amazing 73 miles to the gallon compared with my last car general morors vauxhall vectra estate which got me well under half of that.I always buy estate cars as I'm a big guy and like the extra room I always use the sopace when a little bit of something nice comes my way tool wise, machhine wise, or material wise ;) .
However I have been warned with this new one to be car eful :D anyway with the alloy wheels and extra spec diesel cost me around 32k and I am so far pleased with it the weather here has not been driving weather so I have only clocked up 200 miles or so in 3 weeks visiting my pal Dan OIL mAC anyway new cars are fun so have some.Alistair

tdkkart
12-28-2010, 05:02 PM
Did I mention that I'd rather take poison than buy a new car? Anyone got any?


The Camry we bought was our first "new" car since 1993, just never made sense to me to lose that much money out the door.

However, the economy lately it made more sense than ever.
The price of low mileage late model used cars is way up, at least in this area.
Low or 0% interest rates helped too.

What it came down to was that used cars were priced so high, and virtually non-negotiable, that by the time I got done squeezing the new car guy I was at the same price point, or VERY close.
Now, since I'm not fortunate enough, or don't have the discipline, to be able to pay cash for a new car, I have to look at interest rates and monthly payments.
The best interest I could do on any used car was 3.99%, Most places I could get 1.9% on new, or at Toyota I could get 0%. At the same payment levels 3.99% put me at borrowing approx. $16000, On a 60 month loan 1.9% gave me $2000 extra to spend, 0% gave me $4000.
I know, odd way to look at it, in the end it really doesn't matter, as I am disciplined enough to pay off loans early no matter the interest.

Interior color played a big part too. This car was intended as our daily drive to work car. My wife and I both work in the same factory and ride together. Factory jobs and light color interiors do not go well together. Light gray, and light tan, are very popular right now, the Camry came with black, giving it another step up.

IMO, with the exception of oil changes, I had damn well better be able to weld the hood shut on any new car for the first 100,000 miles with today's technologies. In most cases this is true, damn seldom does any car have a problem at less than 100k. My last several cars have gone more than 150K with no major issues.

aostling
12-28-2010, 06:19 PM
We have VWs in the shop every day and they are the worst cars we work on. We only work on import cars so I can't comment on American stuff but out

Mark,

I'm glad to get your first-hand report of VW ownership costs. I've been considering a Jetta TDI diesel, but now I have given up on the idea of buying a European car. Reliability is sub-par, perhaps because of Bosch electronics.

The Jetta only has 4" of ground clearance. The turning diameter is too large. I'm used to 35 feet U-turns are my specialty, and I don't want to back-and-fill to reverse course.

Bob Farr
12-28-2010, 06:49 PM
I owned a 1999 Jetta, purchased new. It was a very different machine than what you're considering: 2.0l non-turbo 4-cyl, auto trans, but otherwise loaded (including heated leather seats and yes, they're nice!). My comments are just generalized in nature regarding my VW experience.

It was a great car. I drove it 100k+ miles with only routine maintenance. Then stuff started going bad. Expensive stuff. Oxygen sensor (twice), catalytic converter ($1k+), window cable ball ends, sunroof mechanism, miscellaneous sensors, etc, but it's hard to bitch about that after 100k, right?

What I didn't think about at the time of purchase is the cost of insurance. Like others have mentioned, VW's are hard to work on from an access standpoint, and all that stuff crammed into tight quarters means lots gets damages in minor fender benders. I have a good driving record, but the insurance cost was way high compared with other vehicles in its class. And I'll bet that your VW dealership also sells BMW, Posche, Mercedes, etc, (i.e., not GM, Ford, etc) meaning their hourly shop/service rate for your VW is the same as for the higher-end imports. It all adds to the cost of ownership.

Heated seats are great (even addictive!), but $25k heated seats in an expensive-to-maintain car is another thing. Would I buy another? No, I live in Detroit, and my neighbors count on me buying a domestic car for their income. It's important to me too, and I'll be buying US made products from now on. VW makes a good product, and my ownership experience was a good one overall, but I could have bought a nice domestic vehicle, probably for less, definately less expensive to maintain and insure, and maybe saved a local job or two in the process.

Are there any domestic cars with heated seats that come in metalic pearl white? The new Jetta is a looker for sure, but just think how good she'll feel knowing she contributed to our economic recovery by buying domestic. Make her drive a Ford Edge, my wife loves hers! Fast, handles well, comfortable, zero unexpected maintenance expenses so far (42k miles), easy to see out of, decent cargo area, ... we're happy.

Good luck,

Bob

vpt
12-28-2010, 06:53 PM
Check out Acuras as well. Nicer interior and exterior looks, more options, honda quality.

aboard_epsilon
12-28-2010, 07:01 PM
off subject ..Did anyone see ice road truckers "deadliest roads" ..

if i was one of those Indians, i wouldn't be driving around in a euro/jap Asian-box ..it would have to be an armoured vehicle .

all the best.markj

goose
12-28-2010, 07:06 PM
Seriously, you think that bullshooting about cars from random yoiks on an internet chat forum amount to Consumer reports style research? My wife loved her Jettas, which we no longer have, but since they were models from 8 plus years ago, any observations by me or anyone else are irrelevant, moot, pointless, anecdotal (nice little stories.) The 2011 Jetta is a new design, no one can say much else about it..

Gary

PixMan
12-28-2010, 07:57 PM
No one is making bad cars these days, they wouldn't stay in business. Some are incrementally better than others.

I've been married to the same girl for (just over) 30 years now, and if there's one thing I've learned about cars in that time, it's....buy whatever the hell she likes. There is no problem a car she chooses could have that would burn my ear off with the same fervor that a car I choose for her would.

But that's just how it works here. It took me almost 20 of those 30 years to figure this out, but it has been pure automotive bliss ever since I did.

mototed
12-28-2010, 07:59 PM
Well, I think I'm alone here on this discussion.

1971 Beetle, 150000 miles, sold, still running.

1975 Bus (Transporter) 162000 miles or so. Sold still running.

1987 Jetta, Unbelievable 420032 mile on the same clutch, still running when sold, Changed injector seals at 300,000, new timing belts every 60,000. Regular maintenance.

2004 Jetta wagon Good car, no problems at all, Wife hated driving a station wagon. She was tired of the 1987 Jetta after 17 years. Traded for the Tourag.

2007 Tourag. Fantastic dream car, 140 mph in pure comfort in any weather conditions. Insane for a monster this size, couldn't imagine what the V10 TDI diesel would have been like as we bought the V6. Maintenance and fuel costs are sky high as this model is shared with the Porsche Cayenne. Loved it, but after a while I couldn't afford the beast. 50000 miles when sold.

2008 GTI, My little go cart, You have to use synthetic oil, do it your self with approved oil, and it costs about $35.00 USD every 10,000 miles.

2010 Passat CC, Wifes new car. She was not going to leave the dealership with out this car. I gave up. She wanted it, I bought it

Iv'e really not had any problems out of any if them but I do keep up with the maintenance schedules.
I guess Im just lucky with the veedubs, I've owned Ford trucks, Mazda's, Toyotas. I think all cars have issues. I drive a F250 Ford for my work truck and it runs OK at 230,00 miles
Rented a Ford Focus one time when gas was $4.20 a gallon ( when we had the Tourag gas hog) Nice car, got 36 MPG and drove nice too boot.
Who knows, I think they are all the same now.Had a KIA rental car when my truck broke down, and the turn signal lens blew out on the highway.
Ted

wierdscience
12-28-2010, 08:31 PM
off subject ..Did anyone see ice road truckers "deadliest roads" ..

if i was one of those Indians, i wouldn't be driving around in a euro/jap Asian-box ..it would have to be an armoured vehicle .

all the best.markj

Yes,my favorite part was when the girl's pilot driver threw the bottle jack off the cliff:D

wierdscience
12-28-2010, 08:33 PM
I have an uncle wo has bought VW's for daily drivers for decades.His current one is a Jetta TDI which replaced a Passat.So far he is happy.

danlb
12-28-2010, 08:53 PM
Buy the wife what she wants... Good advise.

My wife likes my old Prius, so she had to get the Camry hybrid. She's the exact opposite of the person who will get a lot of benefit from a hybrid since she drives it 10 miles a week. But I prefer her smile to her pout, so we have a nice pretty metallic blue one in the driveway. I must say it IS a nice car in just about every way.

Since getting it she has changed some of her driving habits. She was flying to San Diego once a month to help her mom. She's been driving instead, saving a fortune on car rentals, and the gas ( a 500 mile ride each way) is cheaper than the plane tickets.

So make momma happy, and every one will be happy.

Dan

garagemark
12-29-2010, 09:17 AM
goose, in fact, internet 'chat' forums are as good if not better than consumer report style research. These are real world people with real world road time. Consumer Reports tries to destroy a car in a short amount of time; with a zillion miles, maybe. But time tested trumps any Edmunds report or assessment.

None of you will actually change my mind and, indeed, after 34 years with the same girl, she WILL get what she wants. But she too is smart enough to want the best bang for the buck. She has read this entire thread and takes some of the information, and rejects some of the information.

But isn't it nice to HAVE that information available?

aboard_epsilon
12-29-2010, 09:27 AM
this is a good site gives reliability rating in percentage faults over ..what ever years you choose ..here is the page for the last two -three years ...on the left you can choose the period of time

http://www.anusedcar.com/index.php/tuv-report-year-age/2009-2-3/218

being German ..i think its biased to the Porsche 911....i cant believe a car like that is as reliable as they say it is ..

all the best.markj

Boot
12-29-2010, 09:37 AM
Wife wants a new car. We drove the new 2011 Volkswagen Jetta SEL last night. She loves it. Me? It's just OK. It is the 2.5 five cylinder with all the bells and whistles that can be had on the car.

Anyone have any experience with this car or late model V-dubs in general? I know that they have cheapened the materials some, but really no more than anyone else. It is priced surprisingly low (around 25k) and has plenty of giddy-up.

Thoughts?

Oh, and we will also look at autos like Ford Fusions, Honda Accords, Mazda 6, etc... whether she likes it or not.

THX,
Mark
Buy a Subaru and you'll never look back. It's made in Indiana . Great in snow and it gets 28 mph and that's good for a full time four wheel drive. Handles great never back to the garage for repairs. I've had 7 of them in the last 30 years and put a 100,000 on each of them. I have driven them in 1 foot of snow in PA and on Chincoteague Island 6" of soft dry sand and never have gotten stuck. Also best looking small car the Outback wagon.

vpt
12-29-2010, 10:00 AM
Buy a Subaru and you'll never look back. It's made in Indiana . Great in snow and it gets 28 mph and that's good for a full time four wheel drive. Handles great never back to the garage for repairs. I've had 7 of them in the last 30 years and put a 100,000 on each of them. I have driven them in 1 foot of snow in PA and on Chincoteague Island 6" of soft dry sand and never have gotten stuck. Also best looking small car the Outback wagon.



Never had a head gasket failure or had the retaining ring on the center diff pop out?

lakeside53
12-29-2010, 11:25 AM
I haven't, but I did have a front oil seal leak. PITA, but fixed it when the timing belt was changed. The only other thing I've done to my 1997 model is brakes, at 104,000.. and there was still more to go.

I've had Subarus for 30 years - 3 of them. Mine's near 120K and the other two were given to relatives in Montana are still running.

For where I live and for the winter sports, I love them.

Boot
12-29-2010, 08:09 PM
Never had a head gasket failure or had the retaining ring on the center diff pop out?
Never ! !!!!!!

EddyCurr
12-29-2010, 11:32 PM
In my experience VWs tend to have quirky-piddly problems later in life that
tend to be expensive to fix. I've owned and worked on a few older ones
with issues. The drivetrains keeping going long after the rest of the car
falls apart.


We have VW' in the shop every day and they are the worst cars we work on.
We only work on import cars so I can't comment on American stuff but out
of all the import cars VW are at the bottom. At 100K they start to self
destruct. They require way more expensive maintenance than a Honda or
Toyota and parts are very expensive,...


I owned a 1999 Jetta, purchased new.

... Then stuff started going bad. Expensive stuff. Oxygen sensor (twice),
catalytic converter ($1k+), window cable ball ends, sunroof mechanism,
miscellaneous sensors, etc, ...

... And I'll bet that your VW dealership also sells BMW, Posche, Mercedes,
etc, (i.e., not GM, Ford, etc) meaning their hourly shop/service rate
for your VW is the same as for the higher-end imports. It all adds to the
cost of ownershipThe remarks above echo our experiences.

Don't buy a german car if you intend to own it beyond expiration of the
warranty period. We've had a Jetta and two 5-series BMWs that we
accumulated low mileage on while keeping them (expensively) well
maintained. All three were real disappointments in the reliability &
service categories.

The Jetta let us down more and more frequently as it "aged" (60K miles
in ten years) - stranding each of us on more than one occasion. We have
two dealers in town - I grew to resent both equally. My favorite of their
ploys was their attempts to bill me for a four-wheel alignment when only
the front of a Jetta can be aligned, and then only for simple toe settings.


Buy a Subaru and you'll never look back.I bought a new Subaru a few years ago for my wife when, to my
surprise, she chose the Forester XT (turbo, HID lights, ect) over
everything else she looked at in cars and SUVs to replace her Jetta
during the course of three years of procrastination. Now, she continues
to say that she gets a smile on her face each time she drives it.

My FIL subsequently selected an Impreza wagon with my assistance
and her recommendation. He and the MIL are avid golfers who rack up
astonishing-to-me mileage traveling to courses and ranges. For them,
the Impreza has been a trouble-free appliance.

In Nov, a good friend elected to purchase an '11 WRX after extensively
shopping a very disparate selection of domestic and foreign sport/performance
vehicles. Had he purchased anything else but the WRX (or the Audi), it
would now be parked, unusable and depreciating for the duration of our
winter season. I jokingly told the salesman to sell him a car when he
accompanied me to the dealer to make a service appointment for our
Forester. The WRX was in his driveway the next weekend.

Good friends have a current model STi and a previous generation STi,
along with a '10 base Impreza hatch in their family fleet. The current
model STi replaces a previous one that was wrecked when hit by another
car in an intersection.

.

aboard_epsilon
12-30-2010, 08:02 AM
yup, all the four wheel alignment is about ..is having your steering wheel so its looks nice when all your wheels are pointing strait ...

two wheel alignment will get your front wheels spot on ..but your steering wheel can be cock eyed ..

as far as i can make out ..that is all four wheel alignment is about ..

all the best.markj

Greg Q
12-30-2010, 08:31 AM
Did you check the J.D. Powers customer satisfaction survey data for VW? A few years back they were ranked pretty low, but then again I don't know Power's methodology.

I do know this about Honda: We bought a new Accord (Accura in the States) 3.5 litre adaptive cylinder technology (variable 6 or 5 or 4 cyl depending on load). On the highway it was pretty good, getting around 32 mpg. In the city/suburbs we got less than 20. Not happy.

Next, the build quality was crap. Crap on a crap cracker in fact.

The chrome tail pipe extensions fall off every 9 months on average. The sun visor attach points fail. Same with the air conditioner grilles, centre console lid, etc etc. The rear view mirrors are all convex-a dumb feature.

The brakes wear out too quickly. We had to replace the fronts once and rears twice in 24, 000 miles. Not happy. The service interval is too short, and too expensive.

The navigation system reminded me of the old Far Side cartoon: "Crimminy! You're driving like you've been pithed!". If you ever want the least elegant way to get somewhere just ask Mr. Honda.

We used to have an '89 Accord that went 19 years and 240,000 miles. No major problems-what there was got fixed in the driveway. The 2008 Honda wasn't a patch on the old Accord's ass.

aboard_epsilon
12-30-2010, 09:06 AM
Did you check the J.D. Powers customer satisfaction survey data for VW? .

Buick....the last time i seen one of those in our country was at a classic car show ..

all the best.markj

Circlip
12-30-2010, 09:43 AM
it gets 28 mph and that's good for a full time four wheel drive

Geez, even crappy Land Rovers go faster than that. Obviously Suroobarb put all their efforts into the not very "Impratsu"

Regards Ian.

vpt
12-30-2010, 09:54 AM
yup, all the four wheel alignment is about ..is having your steering wheel so its looks nice when all your wheels are pointing strait ...

two wheel alignment will get your front wheels spot on ..but your steering wheel can be cock eyed ..

as far as i can make out ..that is all four wheel alignment is about ..

all the best.markj


It depends on the vehicle. Some vehicles the rear suspension is as adjustable as the front and will make a difference in ride and handling. A strait steering wheel is adjusted with the front tow. If you leave from an alignment and the steering wheel is crooked the guy didn't do his job right.

garagemark
12-30-2010, 10:04 AM
UPDATE: Guess who fell in love with a Toyota last night. Yep, the girl who said she'd never own one. We drove a 2011 Camry XLE with every bell and whistle excepting the navigation system. We just can't see 3k for that option (the only option available in this package). Real nice ride. The one we drove was the 2.5 liter four; real peppy for it's size. However, I am still old school and think that bigger is better in the engine department. I don't know if we should look at the six or not. With the six speed transmission, the car really never gets out of it's power band range (other than maybe OD lockup).

Anyway, she might do this deal as soon as tomorrow. She does all the haggling; I would just walk away with a middle finger in the air. She is shrewd, and won't do it if it isn't on her terms. I like that.

Stand by.

tdkkart
12-30-2010, 11:19 AM
UPDATE: Guess who fell in love with a Toyota last night. Yep, the girl who said she'd never own one. We drove a 2011 Camry XLE with every bell and whistle excepting the navigation system. We just can't see 3k for that option (the only option available in this package). Real nice ride. The one we drove was the 2.5 liter four; real peppy for it's size. However, I am still old school and think that bigger is better in the engine department. I don't know if we should look at the six or not. With the six speed transmission, the car really never gets out of it's power band range (other than maybe OD lockup).


Hmmmm??
$3K for nav system that you can do just as well with a map or a $100 Garmin does seem a bit extravegant doesn't it??
We got the SE model with the 4cyl and 6 speed auto, yes, it's more than peppy enough to get you in trouble. Did you notice what happens when you hit about 4000rpm with your foot close to the floormat?? Not sure if it variable valve timing or what, but it's like you hit the afterburners.....ZIIINNGGG!!!
Yes, the trans is very nice, smooth as a continuously variable on light throttle, a bit sportier as the pedal pressure goes up.
We have a bit over 5000 miles on ours, zero issues, gets 28-30mpg in our daily 40 mile commute.

Guess we've had it just about 6months, wife just wrote the 6 month insurance check.

aboard_epsilon
12-30-2010, 12:08 PM
Ran into a friend the other day ..

He was stuck coming down a snow covered hill in his brand new BMW 4x4 SUV

it had auto trans ..

and only five gears ..no low range ..

It had traction control ..but as far as i could make out this only controlled slippage when accelerating..

It put him a very dangerous situation.

so i tried to help ..as he was bottling it on this 1:4 hill

After looking at the handbook ..that told you not to attempt anything in it .there was no info on coming down a slippery hill ..

He ended up ..slipping and breaking locking up, down the whole hill ..as far as i could tell, in-between, wheels were rolling without engine braking.

what's the use of this vehicle ..if it can get you out of trouble going up a hill ...but cant get you out of trouble and puts you in danger coming back down the same hill.

Other four wheel drives ..they would have had a crawler gear ..to get you out of this situation .....from what i could see the BMW's idea of a 4x4 sucks ...that's unless there was something else ..a button or something that could not be found .

All the best.markj

A.K. Boomer
12-30-2010, 01:12 PM
Thoughts?





Just remember one word --- Plastic...

And Volkswagon is "Folkswagon" no more,, they have gotten so far away from their roots its crazy, last one I had in my shop I had to get the customers help "from above" to help me change his serp. belt.
The company needs to go extinct and I have and will do everything I can to change minds when people ask me my opinion on them, they want to play games - it's going to cost them...
They want to make it so a typical mechanic cannot work on their vehicles without all the dealer special tools they will make a killing at first -- but its already coming back around to bite them, hell - you can't even drive X-country in a jetta TDI and add oil unless you get the dealer specific stuff with moly or you can severely damage the engine - Nice --- specific additives to cover up for the German hillbilly engineering :rolleyes:
They can choke on em... Junk.

garagemark
12-30-2010, 02:01 PM
After driving some of the other brands, I agree AK. The new V-dubs feel inferior to virtually any of the others. They are good looking on the outside, but I am leery of the rest.

Looks like a Camry XLE right now (see today's post at 10:00 AM). I'll update as things progress..... or don't. ;)

tdkkart
12-30-2010, 02:39 PM
After driving some of the other brands, I agree AK. The new V-dubs feel inferior to virtually any of the others. They are good looking on the outside, but I am leery of the rest.


I haven't been in the latest ones, but do they still smell the same as the old ones?? Sorry, but every VW I've ever been in, from 50's and 60's Beetles to late 90's models all smell the same inside, especially if left out in the hot sun with the windows up. I can't/won't get into exactly what it smells like at the risk of getting into a bad situation.

danlb
12-30-2010, 04:51 PM
Looks like a Camry XLE right now (see today's post at 10:00 AM). I'll update as things progress..... or don't. ;)


Just for fun.... Try the hybrid version. Until you get used to the flat power curve, it feels odd. The engine RPMs have no relationship to teh car's speed, and that's a bit odd too. But they feel real stable in bad weather, are very smooth during acceleration and can accelerate up a 6% grade from a standing start to the speed limit in seconds flat.

The hybrid option may or may not make economic sense for your wife's driving, sense it really shines in freeway, long trips or stop and go. With nothing but a mile to the store once a week its fuel economy is no better than the standard engine. In most cases, you will recoup the added cost of the hybrid when you sell it.

But I find them fun to drive. :)

RE: the nav system; The Toyota nav system is the only sour note on the car. It locks out changes while moving so you are not distracted, yet lets you interact via voice commands while moving. Very silly.

Enjoy the new car, whatever you get.

Dan