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aostling
12-28-2010, 03:17 PM
You've may have noticed that the shoelace knot you learned when you were five is no longer secure. Modern laces are so slippery that you can't walk more than a few blocks before your shoelaces untie themselves. You then have to look for a fire hydrant or bench to set your shoe on while you re-tie the knot.

Out of necessity I have started double-knotting my laces. This is secure, but a PITA to untie. But now I am visiting my brother in Santa Rosa, and he showed my a new type of double knot which can still be untied with a single tug. I cannot diagram it, but it's worth searching for if you have the need.

Black_Moons
12-28-2010, 03:40 PM
And here I thought I was the only one with this problem.. I swore for years that gremlins followed me around untieing my shoes every time I looked the other way.

lynnl
12-28-2010, 03:49 PM
It makes a difference which way you cross that second overlap. Go the opposite from the first.

Frankly I seldom have a problem.

rolland
12-28-2010, 03:51 PM
duct tape :D

Oldbrock
12-28-2010, 03:53 PM
Lynnl, that's a reef knot instead of a granny. Peter

Alistair Hosie
12-28-2010, 04:00 PM
wow the important things we need to stay alive:D Alistair ps have a great xmas and holidays and a great n,year

darryl
12-28-2010, 04:03 PM
Call me 'shoelace challenged' as well. I almost always toss the laces that come with, and buy boot laces to replace them. Whoever thought up that slippery shoelace material should be strung up with twelve dozen of them, tied in a pattern of granny and reef knots, with the odd double overlap cinch knot thrown in. :)

Liger Zero
12-28-2010, 04:06 PM
Evan will be along shortly with his Non-Euclidean trans-dimensional shoe-tying process that violates both the laws of space-time AND thermodynamics.

...I'll make the popcorn. :D





(kidding Evan, kidding! :p)

winchman
12-28-2010, 04:16 PM
I've got some New Balance shoes that have laces which are filled with little bits of fiber spaced 3/4" apart. The laces go bump, bump, bump as you tie/untie them, and I've never had a problem with them coming undone.

darryl
12-28-2010, 04:27 PM
I've had some shoelaces that seemed to have a knot in them underneath the outer sheath- about every inch or so, but randomly. Sure is some 'just good enough' manufacturing out there- or is that 'not quite good enough'.

Bill736
12-28-2010, 04:31 PM
I think I figured that knot out . Instead of doing a double looped " bow tie" knot , pull one end all the way through so you have only a single loop, or half a bow tie. Then take the unlooped straight end, make a loop, and tie it around the first loop. You end up with a double knot that can be pulled loose easily. I've found, however, that most of my loose lace problems could be avoided by simply making a double pass over and under the first step, before making the loops. The extra friction creates a better knot, and the whole thing can still be untied with a single pull. These days, I wear laceless shoes with thick, padded soles ( clodhoppers) to avoid " heel spurs" . I miss my wide New Balance tennis shoes ( exercise shoes, running shoes, walking shoes, or whatever they officially are) , but oddly enough they're now hard on my feet.

oil mac
12-28-2010, 04:37 PM
As an aside to the problem of knots guys, The materials laces are made of nowadays are crap ! Over here in scotland up until about 15 years ago, we had a firm called Paton & Co whose laces were indestructable At one time i would not buy any other make
Patons were domicile in a very ancient and attractive mill on the outskirts of a town called Johnston, The paton mill lay empty for a number of years,Until last year when a man purchased the building to turn it into homes This historic building was at approx 200 years old, Sadly two persons have been charged with burning it to the ground, As well as no good laces no building to remember the lace Co by.

Mark McGrath
12-28-2010, 06:05 PM
Sadly two persons have been charged with burning it to the ground,

It`s the modern way of getting around the planning committee although I am not saying this is what has happened here.:D

jugs
12-28-2010, 06:13 PM
Evan will be along shortly with his Non-Euclidean trans-dimensional shoe-tying process that violates both the laws of space-time AND thermodynamics.



Naw, he's too busy on google, trying to find stuff on aircraft to try & impress us, :rolleyes:

Anyway you dont think a god like evan would stoop to tie his own laces do you. :eek:

john
:)

aboard_epsilon
12-28-2010, 06:14 PM
The problem is:- shoe laces are now mostly round in section ..they all used to be flat .

Another problem is, they put instead of two eye-letts for the last holes... they are putting loops ..

what's effing going on ...they are designing flaws into everything ..no engineers only designers these days . :(

All the best.markj

Liger Zero
12-28-2010, 06:26 PM
Naw, he's too busy on google, trying to find stuff on aircraft to try & impress us, :rolleyes:

Anyway you dont think a god like evan would stoop to tie his own laces do you. :eek:

john
:)


what, velcro?

vpt
12-28-2010, 06:49 PM
I pull the shoe lace around my finger twice and then pull the loop threw. Holds great even on snow boots threw the brush that always come undone.

Evan
12-28-2010, 06:51 PM
I always wear velcro runners.

oldtiffie
12-28-2010, 06:59 PM
Call me 'shoelace challenged' as well. I almost always toss the laces that come with, and buy boot laces to replace them. Whoever thought up that slippery shoelace material should be strung up with twelve dozen of them, tied in a pattern of granny and reef knots, with the odd double overlap cinch knot thrown in. :)

That's gross.

ligito
12-28-2010, 07:13 PM
Quitcherbitchin.

Shoe laces have come a long way since the fifties, when they used to break a lot.
My ex wife taught me the correct way to tie my shoes and I rarely have to retie them.
I can't remember the last time that I had to replace my laces.

PixMan
12-28-2010, 07:27 PM
What??? You're supposed to TIE shoelaces? What the hell??

Da boyz in da hood would have me capped if I wuz to tie the laces. Day is s'poda be loosely looped, preferably with the tag still on da shooz.

bborr01
12-28-2010, 07:27 PM
Gonna be a loooooooooonnnnnggggg winter.

Brian

John Stevenson
12-28-2010, 07:30 PM
Bugger the laces.

Rigger boots is the thing.

http://www.dickiesstore.co.uk/thumbs/FA23350.jpg

Get a comfy pair of these and you have to have them surgically removed :p

Weston Bye
12-28-2010, 08:31 PM
Bugger the laces.

Rigger boots is the thing.



I started wearing motorcycle boots. Even to my daughters weddings. Comfortable, no chips in my socks, but inconvenient when passing through the TSA choke point at airports.

wierdscience
12-28-2010, 08:42 PM
I figure it must be sign of impending cultural doom when a country like the US can no longer make a f---ing shoelace.

I don't have any trouble keeping my bootlaces tied.What I have trouble with is finding a pair of laces that lasts more than two days.

The nylon cord kind I go through two pair a month,switched to leather the old standby(now all made in India) they didn't last long enough to get them tied once before breaking.

J Tiers
12-28-2010, 08:45 PM
Another option, which MAY be what was mentioned earlier, is to take at least one more turn when doing the first part.... Sometimes known as a "surgeon's knot", it slips less before completion, and it also doesn't loosen as much.

Arcane
12-28-2010, 09:32 PM
Bugger the laces.

Rigger boots is the thing.

http://www.dickiesstore.co.uk/thumbs/FA23350.jpg

Get a comfy pair of these and you have to have them surgically removed :p

Rigger boots my arse! Those are "sheep" boots! :D

HSS
12-28-2010, 09:44 PM
Rigger boots my arse! Those are "sheep" boots! :DSheep boots are taller, at least thats what I've been told.:D

Paul Alciatore
12-28-2010, 11:05 PM
Quitcherbitchin.

Shoe laces have come a long way since the fifties, when they used to break a lot.
My ex wife taught me the correct way to tie my shoes and I rarely have to retie them.
I can't remember the last time that I had to replace my laces.


You are kidding, right. Now they always break. Made in China from rice plants.

garagemark
12-29-2010, 09:24 AM
Crap. I must not be doing something right, cause I don't have any problems with ANY of my new shoe laces.

As someone said, it's gonna be a long winter.

Alistair Hosie
12-29-2010, 09:53 AM
Get a comfy pair of these and you have to have them surgically removed
phew what a niff.:D Alistair

saltmine
12-29-2010, 10:42 AM
I wear boots.

MichaelP
12-29-2010, 10:44 AM
Rub your shoelaces with rosin.

DonT
12-29-2010, 11:34 AM
years ago I had a website up and have since let it go... I had a lot of fun stuff on it as I have written a number of articles over the years for HSM as well as some hobbiest mags in England and Australia....

Here is one I had on my site regarding the issue of laces as well as a respons I got from someone with other helpful info, unfortunately it is did not pull in as nice as it shows in a web page but might help none the less.. Enjoy! DonT:

The Age Old Shoe Lace Caper!


Since I've been old enough to walk I've had shoes with laces. Oh sure, for a couple of years I strayed and wore western boots and in the 60's I even had a set of white leather, zip up disco boots. But then again I had hair back then too!

I'm sure over the years I've had hundreds of pairs of tie shoes of all styles and sizes. Dress shoes, tennis shoes, hiking boots, hunting boots, moccasins, etc. and the one thing they all had in common was that they wouldn't stay tied unless you double knotted them.

Now I'm not sure about you but I hate double knotting shoes. Seems like every time I do this I have a heck of a time untying them. This just seems to be one of lifes little frustrations, or it did up until about 3 years ago. After years of struggling with this pesky problem I finally ran across a solution and have used it successfully ever since. I would like to share this tiny bit of wisdom with you and the only thing I ask in return is that you pass it on to someone else!

First I think it is important to point out that this is was not my discovery, I am not sure where I learned about it but it was not my idea. I will say that if you adopt this way of tying your shoes I can almost guarantee they will not come untied until you want them too. What is especially nice is that to untie them you just pull one of the loose laces as usual. Here we go.....


First you start tying the shoe as you normally would with the over and under move.
Next form the loop as usual.
Now the trick , instead of going around this loop once, go around twice!
Finally feed through as you normally do, tighten and your done!


It takes a bit of getting use to and will be awkward at first but if you tough it out for a couple of weeks it will become second nature. The biggest problem I have found tying shoes this way is the extra loop can make it a pain when dealing with those really short laces like the ones found on dress shoes, but even those become second nature in time.

That's all there is to it, no magic formulas or mechanical gadgets. I have yet to find a lace this didn't work on and have used it over the last three years on my dress shoes (which I wear daily and have those little rope laces), hiking boots, hunting boots, tennis shoes. I can honestly say that I don't remember any of them coming untied until I wanted them to.

Happy Tying!



After posting this article I got a nice email from Tony Jeffree who was kind
enough to let me post it.


Amused to read your piece on tying shoe laces. My father taught me that particular trick.
However, a rather more significant observation about tying shoelaces (and why they come undone) is that at least 50% of the population simply get the knot wrong, and that is the reason they have problems. The analysis is as follows:

- A "reef knot" gives a non-slip knot in most shoelace materials; a "Granny Knot" does not produce a non-slip knot in any shoelace material that I have used.

- The ideal shoelace knot is in fact a "reef knot" with the ends folded over before tying the second half of the knot. If you get it right, the loops & ends will "naturally" fall left - to - right across the top of the shoe. And it won't slip or untie (until you pull a loose end).

- The wrong way to tie shoelaces is as a "Granny Knot" with the ends folded over before tying the second half of the knot. You can tell if you have done this, because the loops & ends will "naturally" fall toe-to-heel along the top of the shoe. If this is the way you tie your shoes, you should not be surprised that they come loose! (Once you recognize this difference, its fascinating to see just how many people get this wrong - and to see the correlation with the people that are constantly re-tying their laces!)

Your (and my) double turn on the second half of the knot will indeed fix the problem if you are actually tying your shoes wrongly in the first place, but gives no advantage over getting the knot right! I realised many years ago that I had been taught to tie Granny bows, so taught myself to reverse the direction of the first half-knot & fixed the problem. I still do the double loop on the second half knot, but for the only reason that it makes the knot look better, not that it is needed for a secure knot.
Regards, Tony

DFMiller
12-29-2010, 12:12 PM
For the few that have met me they will be shaking there heads.
http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss47/ve7pke/Misc%20Machining/1fa53d50.png
These are my machining ones. Non skid oil resistant soles. No holes for hot chips. They do collect small chips really bad.
Nice high visibility color. ;-)
People can see me coming and run away.
Dave

Evan
12-29-2010, 12:37 PM
These are my everyday wear shoes. Wife gets mad at me if I wear them to town even if she isn't with me. That I can't figure out although I guess they could use a little polish.

http://ixian.ca/pics8/shoes.jpg

MichaelP
12-29-2010, 01:06 PM
Evan, don't tell you're going to approach your new shiny telescope wearing these shoes! :eek:

garagemark
12-29-2010, 01:12 PM
Good Gawd Evan! I can smell them things from here! :eek:

Guido
12-29-2010, 01:14 PM
Sat with several graduating seniors during a lecture by the highly qualified head of the school of engineering. Prior to starting the lecture, he very meticuously (sp) re-attached a broken shoe lace to an already knotted portion which had remained in the shoe. Finally, tieing the very short ends in a neat, miniature bow, he pointed out that if the administration would pass along a raise in pay, he just might be able to buy a new pair of laces.

From the second row, and of course from a Canadian too broke to go home for Christmas and who knew what going to school on a shoestring entailed, came the response: "Can I have your old ones?'

--G

dockrat
12-29-2010, 01:14 PM
I'm taking a collection to buy Evan a new pair of shoes. Ya'all send me $5.00 and I will make sure he gets it. "cough cough"

Evan
12-29-2010, 01:30 PM
These are my "good" shoes. I couldn't find steel toed runners in velcro so I had get ones with laces. I fixed the untying problem by tying them loose and tie wrapping the knots. They slip on just fine. :D

http://ixian.ca/pics8/shoes2.jpg

lynnl
12-29-2010, 02:01 PM
The trick is to wrap clockwise for the right shoe, and CCW for the left one.

(Note: You folks in the southern hemisphere will need to reverse that.)

sdgrand
12-30-2010, 03:19 PM
I'd appreciate it if someone could point me to, or post, a drawing of how to tie a reef knot. Thanks in advance, Shel

lynnl
12-30-2010, 03:24 PM
Sheldon, you may know it as a "square knot." - same, same.

Look here:
http://www.animatedknots.com/reef/index.php

wsb
12-30-2010, 04:52 PM
Right over left then left over right