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Evan
12-29-2010, 03:28 PM
While searching for information on packing problems in mathematics I noticed two hits in the list that have identical excerpts. One was in Wikipedia and the other from a book listed on Google. That caught my eye immediately so I checked it out.

The article here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometrical_frustration

contains long sections of identical text from the book here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=pG6x5gf_V_EC&lpg=PA513&ots=E_HkGU6IRl&dq=pentagonal%20packing%20problem&pg=PA513#v=onepage&q=pentagonal%20packing%20problem&f=false


The book is not listed as a reference and it is not attributed as a source for the text published in Wikipedia. The book is still under copyright.

Perhaps someone would like to lodge an objection?

lynnl
12-29-2010, 03:40 PM
Not me, I have better things to do.
Who's to say the book guy didn't plagarize yet another source?

PeteF
12-29-2010, 03:48 PM
Well Evan, given that you're singlehandedly responsible for the overhaul of the Canadian postal system ... apparently. If you find this entry so objectionable, rather than posting about it on a bulletin board on machining, of all places, why don't you lodge an objection? Heck, you may even use the facility I believe Wikipedia has in place specifically for that purpose!

oldtiffie
12-29-2010, 03:49 PM
As Evan is so interested in "setting things right" and chasing rabbits down holes - why doesn't he do it or more particularly why hasn't he?

I'd sure appreciate seeing him credited for/with having the plagiarism recognised and remedied.

But, to give credit where its due, Evan did find it and it seems that WP's filtering systems did not.

Evan
12-29-2010, 03:50 PM
Who's to say the book guy didn't plagarize yet another source?

Nobody may say he did, including you. Even if it were true it makes no difference.


why doesn't he do it or more particularly why hasn't he?


I don't know how.

oldtiffie
12-29-2010, 03:52 PM
..........................................

I don't know how.

You WHAT???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem

Mcgyver
12-29-2010, 03:56 PM
You WHAT???



ok, that was funny!

Evan
12-29-2010, 04:02 PM
Last time I tried I got mired down in some sort of mess that wouldn't allow me to proceed. I gave up on it.

PeteF
12-29-2010, 04:08 PM
http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/454/dbe/454dbe4b-6a87-4e0d-8c0d-5ff7b6ca9569

Evan
12-29-2010, 04:10 PM
That's really funny coming from you.

squirrel
12-29-2010, 04:21 PM
Plagiarism is not the serious issue, the biggest problem comes for the half baked information on their. Some of the stuff I looked up was not even close to reality, it seems the internet will probagate BS rather quickly. Best thing to do is rely on old fashioned printed reference books that have reviewed by doctorate level reviewers

lazlo
12-29-2010, 04:29 PM
Evan, since you were able to fix the Canadian Custom's service and get Walmart to change their architectural designs, I have complete faith that you'll be able to figure out how flag an article for plagiarism.

Plagiarism is just a fact of life when you have Wiki entries contributed and edited by hundreds of thousands of mostly anonymous participants. I've seen several estimates that around 2% of Wiki articles contain plagiarized references.

Plagiarism by Wikipedia editors (http://www.wikipedia-watch.org)

Anyone can be a Wikipedia Editor/Contributor -- you just have to sign-up for a Wikipedia account. If you want to be a Wikipedia "Administrator" -- you just need ~ 5 - 6 months as an active contributor, without any flame wars. LOL! :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators

Weston Bye
12-29-2010, 04:51 PM
While searching for information on packing problems in mathematics I noticed two hits in the list that have identical excerpts. One was in Wikipedia and the other from a book listed on Google. That caught my eye immediately so I checked it out...

...The book is not listed as a reference and it is not attributed as a source for the text published in Wikipedia. The book is still under copyright.

Perhaps someone would like to lodge an objection?

Alert the publisher and let them sort their way through Wikipedia to deliver their cease and desist. They are the injured party, after all.

MuellerNick
12-29-2010, 05:02 PM
If I would be a Canadian hobby astronomer that is technically challenged, I'd post that in a unrelated forum.


Nick

Dr Stan
12-29-2010, 05:24 PM
Best thing to do is rely on old fashioned printed reference books that have reviewed by doctorate level reviewers

Keep in mind the saying "liars, damn liars, and statisticians" :D

Remember also I have a doc

camdigger
12-29-2010, 05:29 PM
Keep in mind the saying "liars, damn liars, and statisticians" :D

Remember also I have a doc

Doc,
Does that mean there's some truth to what I was told in my undergrad Statistics class.. "you can make statistics say what ever you want by manipulation of the sample set or processing"

oldtiffie
12-29-2010, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by squirrel
Best thing to do is rely on old fashioned printed reference books that have reviewed by doctorate level reviewers


Keep in mind the saying "liars, damn liars, and statisticians" :D

Remember also I have a doc

As you keep reminding us.

Evan
12-29-2010, 05:51 PM
Anyone can be a Wikipedia Editor/Contributor -- you just have to sign-up for a Wikipedia account. If you want to be a Wikipedia "Administrator" -- you just need ~ 5 - 6 months as an active contributor, without any flame wars. LOL!


I don't want to be a Wikipedia administrator nor do I want a Wikipedia account. I know that some people here do have the ability to edit or whatever it is they do so I posted this in case they felt like dealing with it. I imagine you can do it Robert.


If I would be a Canadian hobby astronomer that is technically challenged, I'd post that in a unrelated forum.


Beats suffering from Aprosencephaly cerebellar dysgenesis as you do.

lazlo
12-29-2010, 06:00 PM
Keep in mind the saying "liars, damn liars, and statisticians" :D

Sure, but the bar is much higher for a printed publication. You have to find an editor willing to publish your work. Springer-Verlag won't be publishing cold fusion or perpetual motion books anytime soon :)
You can self-publish, but those are like Penny Stocks -- the distribution is in the thousands, not 10's or hundreds of millions like a major publisher.

The problem with Wikipedia is that you don't need any background or qualifications. The general Wiki Whiteboard idea is that with enough editors/contributors participating, any mistakes or falsehoods will quickly be edited out.

In general, that seems to work well -- in my narrow fields of expertise (EE and specifically computer architecture), the entries I've read are very accurate. I couldn't tell you if the Labradoodle entries are factually correct, but based on "correctness by the masses", I presume there are enough Labradoodle aficionados to ensure they are.

The problem is the demographic that participates in Wikipedia tends to be geeks: young, white, highly educated males. So there's a disproportionate number of entries on Geek topics such as Star Wars and Star Trek, masturbation and WoW.

But where the "Correctness by the masses" strategy falls apart is in politics or politically loaded issues such as global warming, where you have diametrically opposed groups with a specific agenda. That leads to "editor wars" and "Wikipedia Vandalism (http://www.wikipedia-watch.org/vandals.html)". Wikipedia general bans all the editor/contributors and administrators involved in the flame war, but the parties involved are heavily funded and/or highly motivated, and another soldier quickly picks up the rifle of his fallen comrade.

As far as plagiarism, I don't think many really care. A major portion of the content of the Internet is plagiarized. Hell, we have extensive cases of plagiarizing on the various machinist forums. There's been at least one published machinist book that's obviously trolled the various machinist forums for material.

In the case of Wikipedia, I'm sure and editor/administrator will quickly remove the plagiarized text. There's no way for one Wiki editor/contributor to know that a peer contributor's text has been plagiarized, unless he/she has read the original material, or a reader points it out.

John Stevenson
12-29-2010, 06:04 PM
and another soldier quickly picks up the rifle of his fallen comrade.

Unless he's Italian...............

jkilroy
12-29-2010, 06:12 PM
Plagiarism on Wiki? Say it ain't so? Considering I take everything, and I mean EVERYTHING on that site with a grain of salt, who cares. The site isn't even useful, anyone with a brain would feel compelled to verify everything that the site puts forward, therefore it is a waste of time.

recoilless
12-29-2010, 07:25 PM
Plagiarism is not the serious issue, the biggest problem comes for the half baked information on their. Some of the stuff I looked up was not even close to reality, it seems the internet will probagate BS rather quickly. Best thing to do is rely on old fashioned printed reference books that have reviewed by doctorate level reviewers

...Unless you are an undergrad at, say, Purdue University. At least when I was there. When you become a United States Senator, your statement is so true.

recoilless
12-29-2010, 07:26 PM
Beats suffering from Aprosencephaly cerebellar dysgenesis as you do.

My neighbor just died from that, I think

lazlo
12-29-2010, 07:29 PM
the biggest problem comes for the half baked information on their. Some of the stuff I looked up was not even close to reality, it seems the internet will probagate BS rather quickly.

I think plagiarism on Wikipedia is the least of your concerns right now :D

dp
12-29-2010, 07:33 PM
Well Evan, given that you're singlehandedly responsible for the overhaul of the Canadian postal system ... apparently.

It took you no time at all to launch yet another ad hominem assault on Evan. Why do you do that? You really need a life.

dp
12-29-2010, 07:36 PM
image: don't feed the troll

I should have read ahead. Welcome to the bit bucket.

lakeside53
12-29-2010, 07:39 PM
Damn... Must be slow day in cyberville...:rolleyes:

squirrel
12-29-2010, 07:39 PM
My neighbor just died from that, I think
If you would allow me a few moments to read the informatation on Wikipedia about inbreeding I can start typing with a choppy canter and make you believe I am an expert in this field with years of research and an endless list of accomplishments. :rolleyes:

lazlo
12-29-2010, 07:46 PM
Damn... Must be slow day in cyberville...:rolleyes:

Indeed! I finished welding several stock racks today. Whatcha up to Andy? :)

Blue chips!

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u15/rtgeorge_album/stockracks.png

topct
12-29-2010, 07:51 PM
Wikipedia is perfect.

I can see it.

Those that can, will agree.

Everything has a purpose.

John Stevenson
12-29-2010, 07:55 PM
Beats suffering from Aprosencephaly cerebellar dysgenesis

Can't beat 3 gallon of this in the coolant tank, kills everything except elf and pastry inspectors

PeteF
12-29-2010, 07:56 PM
It took you no time at all to launch yet another ad hominem assault on Evan. Why do you do that? You really need a life.

I give up Dennis, did you mean this to be funny or one of the most ironic statements I've read here for a long time?

lakeside53
12-29-2010, 07:59 PM
Indeed! I finished welding several stock racks today. Whatcha up to Andy? :)

Blue chips!





Envy....

I wasted a nice snow day to meet a deliverable - wrote a design philosophy paper (wish I could have just copied it from wiki..) that had to be in today, and one that nobody will read.. Oh well, the pay was good:D

dp
12-29-2010, 08:01 PM
I give up Dennis, did you mean this to be funny or one of the most ironic statements I've read here for a long time?

Why wouldn't you be more interested in this:

It took you no time at all to launch yet another ad hominem assault on Evan.

RPM
12-29-2010, 08:12 PM
Thank God the 'Season of Goodwill to all Men' is over, it was beginning to hurt :-)
Let the Flame Wars commence!
Richard in Los Angeles

Weston Bye
12-29-2010, 08:56 PM
Let the Flame Wars commence!

NOT............

J Tiers
12-29-2010, 09:00 PM
Actually, as far as wikipedia is concerned, I think it does a decent job, given how it works.

As mentioned, most technical stuff is pretty sound.

The downfall is in entries concerning commercial establishments, most of which are self-serving (BTW, whats WRONG with self-serving stuff??) tracts extolling the virtues of whatever commercial establishment is concerned, and designed to paint said CE in the best possible colors and light, truth be hanged......

Ditto with anything having political implications.

In both cases ther can be a war between people slipping in "nicks", and folks trying to get rid of them.

Stay out of those areas, in which there probably isn't "one truth" anyway, and it ain't bad.

It's a bit like "Consumer Reports" magazine..... if you know nothing about the subject, its a decent guide. And, if you DO know something, you probably are not very interested in what they have to say, and might well disagree violently with what they say.

BTW, Evan DOES know quite a bit...... it ain't all from the 'pedia, and this is coming from a person who does by no means agree with him 100%. He's obviously a person with wide interests and who has at least a basic understanding of a lot of diverse things..... some of you might lighten up a tad.....

George Bulliss
12-29-2010, 09:08 PM
Well, it is the Holiday season, but I have no intentions of letting the flame wars begin. I'm finding less and less amusement in them as time goes by.

I have guests over at the house tonight and even though I don't really mind getting away from the entertaining, I'm getting some nasty looks from my wife. So, even though I have plenty to say on this subject, I'll try to keep it brief.

I'm getting tired of the predictable personal attacks among the “regulars” and don't want it to become what this board is known for. I'm betting that most of those responsible for the attacks really don't want the board to go in that direction either. You are all here because you enjoy coming here. It is much less enjoyable when things get nasty and I'm just asking for a little personal restraint when posting. Venting emotions always feels good but the change in the board that comes with it does nobody any good.

Got to go.

George

PeteF
12-29-2010, 09:11 PM
Sorry Dennis, before this thread is closed I just wanted to say that I was completely out of line and mistaken in my comments, I know I'm in your "bit bucket", hence you can't read this, but as pointed out by Lazlo, I was mistaken and my comments should have read:

" ... given that you're singlehandedly responsible for the overhaul of the Canadian Custom's Service ... apparently."

Sorry for any confusion that may have caused you, but with quite a full and happy life (thanks for your concern though) please understand I sometimes find it difficult to keep up with other's incessant aggrandising!

Hopefully George will step in and close this stupid and pointless thread. I was sucked into reading it initially thinking that it may, heaven forbid, be about machining, mechanical, or some related subject instead of simply nonsense that I suspect didn't go according to initial plan!

FWIW I agree with Jerry, I think Wikipedia does a pretty good job, it's by the people and for the people. Definitely NOT the place to look for definitive guidance on topics that really NEED to be right, but I think not bad for a rough and ready guide on some subjects. Jerry I couldn't agree more with the "consumer guides". Whenever anything regarding electronics came up our consumer magazine was just so far off the mark it was ridiculous. I'd thought it was unique to the Australian edition, but sounds as if it's a common trait.

Bill736
12-29-2010, 09:34 PM
I've found that Wikipedia does a decent job on most technical subjects that I've also looked up using other sources. However, there's a sinister aspect to Wikipedia and search engines such as Google, and that aspect is the loss of privacy to all of us. Gossip, spy tactics, and tattling are also key attractions of such "information providers." The technology to keep tabs on all of us is in place, and getting worse rapidly. Wikipedia and Google, to name only two, use the excuse that since the technology is there, why not use it without restraint ? If we don't, someone else will. I disagree, and that's why I would never make a money contribution to such services.
As for Evan's original concern over plagarism, I personally would just leave it alone. It's said that in the former East Germany, around 40% of the population was officially spying on the other 60% . That sort of society we don't need, so I prefer to simply mind to my own affairs.

Black_Moons
12-29-2010, 09:53 PM
I could never figure out the attacks on evan. Yea. He knows a lot. Yea he is sometimes wrong. Everyone else is sometimes wrong too! And more often then evan is in my experiance.
Yea, he argues when he is wrong. Everyone else does the same thing!
Seems to me, its mainly jealousy because he knows so much, you expect him to be right 100% of the time, and slam him to the wall whenever hes wrong to make yourself feel better.
Go bite yourselfs, You would be much worse off without him. If I find hes wrong, I try and point it out politely, Makes everyone look like much less of an ass. Especialy if it turns out im actualy wrong in pointing out he was wrong, And that has happened too, And im thankful to evan for taking the time to correct my knowage and make me a smarter person.
I don't strive to be allways right, I strive to be able to recognise when im wrong!

PS: Bonus points to evan for all the times he has actualy gone out and done physical TESTS and photographed them for everyones benifit. Hes using his materials ($$$), his time, his machines to help us further our knowage, And I commend him for that. Not many here go that far.

PPS: One peice of advice you might want to take from me: I have learned more is to be gained from walking away from an arguement with someone who will never be convinced, then there is to continiously argue with them, As you can spend that time you saved convincing someone who can be convinced.
Its not losing, Its just knowing when a battle is a waste of time and effort, And when someone is not worth your valuable time trying to help them when they don't even seem to want it. Some battles are only won by the first person to realise its not worth fighting.

lazlo
12-29-2010, 10:05 PM
I could never figure out the attacks on evan. Yea. He knows a lot.

Many people here disagree with that B_M.

dp
12-29-2010, 10:27 PM
Many people here disagree with that B_M.

They would be wrong.

I sat in his living room with he and his wife and we chatted about all manner of things of common interest - odd and esoteric things, and the mundane, and he spoke with great depth and knowledge. No need for Wikipedia. I've seen first hand the machines and projects he's built and which have been derisively received here, and they are exactly what he claims they are. No less. He generously donated a machined craft piece to the charitable auction I run and it brought in $500, was re-auctioned twice and sold three times, and finally given by the last buyer to the person for whom the auction exists.

It is a long way to Williams Lake, BC, but worth the trip.

Ken_Shea
12-29-2010, 10:28 PM
Indeed! I finished welding several stock racks today. Whatcha up to Andy? :)

Blue chips!



There you go again Robert, taking a perfectly good thread and the dragging it off topic with HSM content. :mad:

fishfrnzy
12-29-2010, 10:29 PM
George,

Thank you for stepping in in a tactful way to give this thread a nudge in the right direction. A little of the back and forth banter is amusing but it does get old after a bit to see page after page of turds being lobbed back and forth.

Just one man's humble opinion.

HSS
12-29-2010, 10:33 PM
NOW yall done gone an done it. Done got THE man stirred up. Dam, dam, dam, dam, damit!!!:eek: :eek:

lazlo
12-29-2010, 10:38 PM
I've seen first hand the machines and projects he's built and which have been derisively received here.

Evan does build neat projects, and I've never seen anyone being derisive about them.

But he claims expertise in every topic that's discussed here, and it's abundantly clear which topics he has real expertise. The rest turn into flame wars, typically with a small but very vocal group of followers coming to his defense.

Which is why really talented, and really smart guys like Sir John and Nick can't help but poke at Evan when he claims that he has the hardest concrete or the toughest spray paint, or he invented Connectix, or he fixed the Candian Custom's Service or...

lazlo
12-29-2010, 10:45 PM
There you go again Robert, taking a perfectly good thread and the dragging it off topic with HSM content. :mad:

Yah, it wasn't very exciting, but I'll post some pictures tomorrow. The paint is drying right now.

dp
12-29-2010, 10:52 PM
Which is why really talented, and really smart guys like Sir John and Nick can't help but poke at Evan when he claims that he has the hardest concrete or the toughest spray paint, or he invented Connectix, or he fixed the Candian Custom's Service or...

You know perfectly well that Nick, John, and you have absolutely no credible proof nor means of proving your beliefs on any of those subjects. But lacking that necessity of integrity has never been an impediment to acting on those beliefs, right or wrong. If that is the norm for really talented and really smart people in your world I assure you it is not so in mine.

Evan
12-29-2010, 10:53 PM
Which is why really talented, and really smart guys like Sir John and Nick can't help but poke at Evan when he claims that he has the hardest concrete or the toughest spray paint, or he invented Connectix, or he fixed the Candian Custom's Service or...


More BS from you Robert. Not surprising since that is your Forte. It was the Postal service that was broken and all I did was complain to the Minister in charge. Why wouldn't he fix it?

The spray paint is available to anyone unless you want it to contain flakes of chromium. In that case you are out of luck.

I didn't invent whatever connectix is nor did I claim to. You have a habit of making references to things that never happened in a futile attempt to make people belive that they did. All that does is impair your credibility in other matters. Actually, I don't think you have any left to impair.

Unless you have concrete made with diamond aggregate you will have difficulty finding any harder than concrete made with corundum which is a common mineral here.

Back to my telescope.

Ken_Shea
12-29-2010, 11:08 PM
Well, I for one would not like to see this site with out Evan, have seen way too many time his willingness to do what he can to help, Evan is a brilliant guy and well exposed to many interesting subjects. I really don't understand the extent of this beef against him by a few.
Would this be a better site if everyone was like me?.........or you?, or Sir John, or Nick, Or Robert or DP or oldtiffe or all the rest?

I don't think so!

I am very glad that all of us make up the diversity of this forum!

oldtiffie
12-29-2010, 11:15 PM
Thanks Ken - sort of.

Fancy putting me in such exalted company. I feel faint and am quite overcome and can feel an attack of the "vapors" coming on.

I'm not so sure that the rest see it as being exalted at all with me in it.

Hoo-da-thort!!!

My my.

lazlo
12-29-2010, 11:20 PM
Would this be a better site if everyone was like me?.........or you?, or Sir John, or Nick, Or Robert or DP or oldtiffe or all the rest?

I don't think so!

I am very glad that all of us make up the diversity of this forum!

Agree completely Ken! But once in awhile there's a bewildered post from a small group of guys like Black Moons or George Wilson, wondering "why everyone is picking on Evan." It's a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I'll say it again: Evan builds neat projects! But so does John, and McGyver, and Lane -- Oh My God! But there's a HUGE difference in the way they present their projects.

Ken_Shea
12-29-2010, 11:31 PM
oldtiffie, was meant in a good way, though some of your off color pics do annoy the crap out of me :D
But that's you and not me, I can accept that :)

Lazlo,
They are different people, it is simply that simple.

At one time Sir John, well, truth is, I really disliked him, but later that all changed when I realized, that just John, he's not a bad guy just different from me, and that's a good thing frequently :)

dp
12-29-2010, 11:35 PM
I'll say it again: Evan builds neat projects! But so does John, and McGyver, and Lane -- Oh My God! But there's a HUGE difference in the way they present their projects.

OMFG! People are different! Who knew!

Moreover, that fact is the basis for justifying the endless attacks on one but not all of those people who are different. Astonishing!

Actually the very act of trying to defend that behavior is itself juvenile - especially the self-fulling part. Surely you're kidding, right?

I can't help but be humored by the notion that adults, no, sorry, really talented and really smart adults, cannot control themselves here, and allow the powers behind the gods of bewitching to prevail and guide their fingers on their keyboards. I've learned here tonight wisdom I will take to my grave: that it's not their fault. I do hope George goes easy on them as a result of this revelation.

Ken_Shea
12-29-2010, 11:43 PM
Dennis,
I have read some of your own post that have been on that same ledge you are accusing others of, and for no reason at all, so it may be prudent for you to be careful when calling the kettle black.

Ken

lazlo
12-29-2010, 11:44 PM
At one time Sir John, well, truth is, I really disliked him, but later that all changed when I realized, that just John, he's not a bad guy just different from me, and that's a good thing frequently :)

To be fair, you first expressed dislike for John during Evan's great "I measured 2 micron runout on my SouthBend lathe" debacle (which was the source of the rediculous claim that he has the world's hardest concrete). Like Black Moons, you were new to the board, and puzzled why John was expressing disbelief -- you thought he was picking on Evan.

A year later, and things have changed, a lot.

dp
12-29-2010, 11:47 PM
Dennis,
I have read some of your own post that have been on that same ledge you are accusing others of, and for no reason at all, so it may be prudent for you to be careful when calling the kettle black.

Ken

I've already turned that corner. Though I don't recall popping off for no reason. PM me to jog my memory.

Black_Moons
12-29-2010, 11:49 PM
Agree completely Ken! But once in awhile there's a bewildered post from a small group of guys like Black Moons or George Wilson, wondering "why everyone is picking on Evan." It's a self-fulfilling prophesy.


I would defend more people, But generaly they only get picked on if they say something stupid in the thread in question, and its well deserved at that point. You guys keep bringing up old theads that have nothing at all to do with the matter at hand, Making the thread about evan insted of about the actual question.

Also, How is a responce to picking on someone a 'prophesy', Self-fulfilling or not?

dp
12-29-2010, 11:53 PM
To be fair, you first expressed dislike for John during Evan's great "I measured 2 micron runout on my SouthBend lathe" debacle

How many microns can Evan measure to, and how do you know this?


(which was the source of the rediculous claim that he has the world's hardest concrete).

How hard is Evan's concrete, how do you know this, and where is harder concrete found?


Like Black Moons, you were new to the board, and puzzled why John was expressing disbelief -- you thought he was picking on Evan.

He was and still does. As recently as a few days ago, in fact.


A year later, and things have changed, a lot.

In what way?

Ken_Shea
12-29-2010, 11:54 PM
To be fair, you first expressed dislike for John during Evan's great "I measured 2 micron runout on my SouthBend lathe" debacle (which was the source of the rediculous claim that he has the world's hardest concrete). Like Black Moons, you were new to the board, and puzzled why John was expressing disbelief -- you thought he was picking on Evan.

A year later, and things have changed, a lot.

Actually, my past dislike for John started when he essentially called me a liar when I remarked on how tire re-treading was done. Now I was wrong but it was what I had seen and remembered some thirty years prior and that not the entire picture of tire re-treading though it was the conclusion in my mind.

That could have been a carry over that you mention :D

J. Randall
12-29-2010, 11:57 PM
PeteF, you don't get sucked in, you charge in anytime you see a chance to jump on Evan, I have bit my tongue several time the last few weeks not commenting on it. Take a hint from George or you are may find yourself out of here one of these days.
James

Ken_Shea
12-30-2010, 12:02 AM
I've already turned that corner. Though I don't recall popping off for no reason. PM me to jog my memory.

Popping off for a reason is little better then popping off for no reason.
Dennis, no PM necessary, it doesn't make enough difference that I will go back and re-read all your post to point to the one/s where I thought you were popping off as you say.
The fact that you admit to having "turned that corner" is sufficient for me to know that you know there has been times.
Been times for me as well, I am not innonecent in that regard, but now I try hard to think about what I am saying and why I am saying it, then make correction as required.

dp
12-30-2010, 12:34 AM
Popping off for a reason is little better then popping off for no reason.
Dennis, no PM necessary, it doesn't make enough difference that I will go back and re-read all your post to point to the one/s where I thought you were popping off as you say.
The fact that you admit to having "turned that corner" is sufficient for me to know that you know there has been times.
Been times for me as well, I am not innonecent in that regard, but now I try hard to think about what I am saying and why I am saying it, then make correction as required.

It is as you say, little better reason to pop off for cause than not. There are some causes that rise to the level of response.

The cathartic moment for me came in the great debate over the lifting power of a subset of the eagle family. It began as an interesting scientific discussion around the physics of lift and drag and became more silly over time. Having spent quite a bit of time learning to fly and rebuilding an airplane from spinner to tail light I had some interest in the science. I did not disengage soon enough for my satisfaction when it had become obvious it had become silly. So I'm actively working on that.

Causes worthy of a response exist and Your Old Dog got caught up in that. Remaining silent was not an option and I'm not so far down the path of recovery that I would ignore a repeat of that.

I'm quite pleased to have avoided the recently blocked thread on magnetic aircraft launchers :)

I also participated in the recent paint thread to the extent I was mystified as to the reason chromium had been introduced. I still don't have the answer, but it's just paint, f'crapsake. That thread was going straight down. And for no reason. Evan found an interesting paint with unexpected qualities and shared. Great! Why tear that apart?

The gun guy with the boy-toy machine gun skirts on his rifle was a special case that involved a prior relationship and knowledge of what happens in forums where he pops up. It never ends well. I was willing to die on that hill.

Anyway - George dropped some excellent words to the wise. We need to 5S this place as a group. Shîttîng in our mess kits has become more common and isn't in anyone's interest.

PeteF
12-30-2010, 01:12 AM
PeteF, you don't get sucked in, you charge in anytime you see a chance to jump on Evan, I have bit my tongue several time the last few weeks not commenting on it. Take a hint from George or you are may find yourself out of here one of these days.
James

I beg your pardon? Who are you to make threats to me about being turfed off this BB? I believe it is George who provides this board to us, so that would be his decision and not yours! I have been working at my desk all day and haven't said boo as I watched the page count of this absurd thread go berserk.

For the record I, like apparently MANY others here, are sick and tired of threads being constantly hijacked by one or two members who seem to think they are the BB's resident never-wrong Oracle when it comes to EVERY subject known to mankind. This is supposed to be a BB on Home Shop Machining, at least that's why I visit here, not a soapbox for rather sad individuals to try to impress others with their self-proclaimed expertise on every subject that has ever existed! It took me 15 seconds (literally, though I didn't actually time it, so no doubt I'll be "corrected" on that topic too) to find the link to report plagiarism this very thread turned out to be about. 15 SECONDS!!!!

So James while you're "biting your tongue" you may like to ease up the pressure a wee bit and wonder why clearly so many people here, myself very much included, are currently rather POed with these individuals? Here's a hint, just as an example, telling somebody who's worked in an industry a good part of their working life that they don't know what they're talking about, and backing up your "facts" with a plagiarized extract from a freaking Microsoft game, of all things, is probably going to piss the person off just a wee bit! Do that often enough and yeah, the person is going to not cut you much slack. Then again maybe I'm just over-sensitive :rolleyes:

gmatov
12-30-2010, 01:15 AM
Ken,

I am intrigued by what you say is the argument about how tires are retreaded. Can you link me to that thread?

As far as dumping on Evan, I think a lot of you are sucking hind teat to him. Envy him you might, were I to have a question, I would sooner expect a correct answer from him than many other of you.

Cheers,

George

I don't really like him. I have usually been one of the brightest in my group, my age sector, my area of expertise. He puts me to shame, and he is about my age. I don't have his disabilities, tho' I do have my own, physical, not chemical, as hemochromatosis. I simply have a bad back.

Good luck to him, and you should really get off his ****. What do you call people like him. Pedants? They know everything? I bought and gave a book about pedants to my daughter to read, and she said "That is YOU!! You know EVERYTHING!!!"

"Pedant's Revolt" is the title. Cliff Klavin type of thing, from "Cheers", if you have ever seen it. I lived that life for almost ever. People hate people who know more than they do.

That is quite evident, here.

boslab
12-30-2010, 01:21 AM
The actual point of the thread was the fact that someones work had been plagerised, seems it had been, in the first instance it was a fascinating article too, shame the plagerist did not give credit whare due, however it can be reported i suppose if you feel strongly enough, or as i would send an email to the auther of the 'originating' text to bring his attention to it, i'm fairly sure if he can manage to work out what i just read then he should have no trouble in sorting his own copyright issues, he[they] were probably not aware that they had indeed been ripped off, if they themselves have not ripped someone elses work [common in science these days and in the past, even scientists at the top of thier game were not imune to reworking competitors texts ] i'm shure they will step up to the plate and deal with it, and if genuine, and i'm not saying they arent as the work looks heavy duty to say the least, be glad of the oppertunity of getting the wrong righted themselves.
[OT;As for concrete well to be honest i was never a fan of HAC [high alumina cement] since a school gym roof fell in on the kids below years ago in the UK!, it might be the hardest but mostly its best kept out of damp areas as conversion weakens it quite a bit, and i still think the areosol contains polyester resin, tee shirt dye sub printing should work nicely on it as it can stand the heat quite well but i digress]
all the best
mark

lazlo
12-30-2010, 01:24 AM
Cliff Klavin type of thing, from "Cheers", if you have ever seen it.

Indeed. The Cliff Clavin metaphor has been applied before :p


"I wonder if you know that the harp is a predecessor of the modern day guitar. Early minstrels were much larger people. In fact, they had hands the size of small dogs."


"If you were to go back in history and take every president, you'll find that the numerical value of each letter in their name was equally divisible into the year in which they were elected. By my calculations, our next president has to be named Yellnick McWawa."

dp
12-30-2010, 01:43 AM
I beg your pardon? Who are you to make threats to me about being turfed off this BB?

You see a threat where I see unsolicited advice. Logically, he can't threaten you, and advice doesn't work well either. I'm now reminded of the WOPR.


For the record I, like apparently MANY others here, are sick and tired of threads being constantly hijacked by one or two members who seem to think they are the BB's resident never-wrong Oracle when it comes to EVERY subject known to mankind.

But you don't mind stepping into a thread and starting an argument with the OP. A profile is developing.


This is supposed to be a BB on Home Shop Machining, at least that's why I visit here, not a soapbox for rather sad individuals to try to impress others with their self-proclaimed expertise on every subject that has ever existed!

Hnnnm. Now we're getting to the core of it. This is very revealing.


It took me 15 seconds (literally, though I didn't actually time it, so no doubt I'll be "corrected" on that topic too) to find the link to report plagiarism this very thread turned out to be about. 15 SECONDS!!!!

But even still don't know finding that link was not the problem but the morass that followed was. Did you actually attempt to complete a transaction there? I've edited pages on Wikipedia and it's really a hoot not to mention a waste of time. There are some people who appear to have scriptbots running that reverse any change you make. I don't doubt for a moment Evan had problems completing his session especially since he has such a crappy connection to the Internet.


So James while you're "biting your tongue" you may like to ease up the pressure a wee bit and wonder why clearly so many people here, myself very much included, are currently rather POed with these individuals?

Pot, kettle. James is simply trying to do with you what you are trying to do with others. What is good for the goose, eh?


Here's a hint, just as an example, telling somebody who's worked in an industry a good part of their working life that they don't know what they're talking about, and backing up your "facts" with a plagiarized extract from a freaking Microsoft game, of all things, is probably going to piss the person off just a wee bit! Then again maybe I'm just over-sensitive :rolleyes:

Left this in because I don't know what it relates to and didn't want to appear to be cherry picking.

So, without sounding like a threat, because it is not, James is correct, George has pleaded for it - we all need to be better behaved. You need to ignore what you perceive as know-it-alls, I need to ignore tire biters, others need to ignore what tickle their hot buttons and this will be a better place.

aostling
12-30-2010, 02:36 AM
What do you call people like him. Pedants? They know everything.

A person of wide-ranging knowledge is a polymath. There are several on this forum, I think.

MuellerNick
12-30-2010, 03:15 AM
Beats suffering from Aprosencephaly cerebellar dysgenesis as you do.


Did you find that at Wiki or are you an expert in that field?


Nick

Black_Moons
12-30-2010, 03:16 AM
A person of wide-ranging knowledge is a polymath. There are several on this forum, I think.
Finaly! some useful knowledge out of this thread. :)

speedy
12-30-2010, 04:19 AM
Perhaps someone would like to lodge an objection?


No, can't help you out there Evan. I'm too busy tending the stock.

Merry Christmas you lot.
I have read the replies that followed Evans post.......
Man, aren't some of you getting enough at home??? Need HRT??:D
I would have thought that a yes or no response would have been enough; or no comment at all.
(Shakes head in wonder and shuffles off to do more work on the worm farm)

jugs
12-30-2010, 04:34 AM
A person of wide-ranging knowledge is a polymath. There are several on this forum, I think.

As the world's expert,

I must inform the uneducated masses, that Polymath is a statistical device developed by me as a means of counting parrots, so stick that in your wiki. :p

john
:)

MuellerNick
12-30-2010, 05:10 AM
The original posting can't be anything more than a provocation directed against the forum.

First, the poster puts an emphasis on how clever he is by mentioning that he looked for "packing problems in mathematics" (is this an mathematics forum?) and then about his great finding that someone copied (hint: copier repair guy) from someone else.
Now would he be interested in addressing that violation, any reasonable person would either contact Wiki or the publisher of the book.
Well.

But, the OP asked if someone else would want to get involved. He's looking for an denunciator in a forum that isn't related to the topic at all.
The intent of that stunt was to get an endless discussion about his person and hear from his few fanboys the mantra of his greatness.

The real purpose of that thread is to drive one more coffin nail into the forum. Unrelated crap, useless discussion, wasted bandwidth, wasted time.


Nick

Evan
12-30-2010, 05:22 AM
Did you find that at Wiki or are you an expert in that field?



I have expertise in many fields. Medicine is one of them. That is why my doctor is allowing me to direct my own treatment. He freely admits that I know more about the area of medicine in question than he does. Among other things since I have been seeing him this year I have managed to change the BC medical system so that a simple 5 minute test for hemochromatosis is now available to every doctor in BC instead of having to draw blood, send it to a lab in Vancouver, wait 3 weeks for results, make another appointment to see the doctor and finally find out what the next step will be. The change I instigated will result in the test being performed in the Doctor's office, costs much less and requires only a cheek swab. Action if required can be taken on the spot which also save the cost of another appointment and result in prompt care for a medical condition that is eventually fatal if not treated.

None of that benefits me as I took action on that problem because of the delay in obtaining results. It was prompted by an obvious problem in the protocol at the main lab in BC which I brought to the attention of the one office that has the power to make changes in such matters. As a result of that the laboratory computer system was discovered to have a programming error that was resulting in testing delays of up to 2 months. The consultants were called in and the problems found and corrected.

This was the result of my actions in this regard.

http://ixian.ca/pics8/careoffice.jpg

I have no idea why this thread has take this turn except for the unrelated and irrelevant comments at the beginning by several members. I do think that some members here seem to have a significant degree of intellectual insecurity. That is unfortunate and unwarranted.

I posted this thread simply to give somebody with the power to change the wikipedia article the chance to do just that. It certainly wasn't intended to provoke the ridiculous degree of emotional responses that have taken place.

Evan
12-30-2010, 05:25 AM
The real purpose of that thread is to drive one more coffin nail into the forum. Unrelated crap, useless discussion, wasted bandwidth, wasted time.


Do you not see the irony of contributing to this thread if that is what you think? What is obvious is that you for some reason feel threatened by me. That is the intellectual insecurity I mentioned. Grow up.

Allan Waterfall
12-30-2010, 05:34 AM
This was the result of my actions in this regard.

http://ixian.ca/pics8/careoffice.jpg


First time I've seen any official correspondence without a date on it, perhaps they don't bother where you live.

Allan

Evan
12-30-2010, 05:50 AM
I snipped parts that weren't relevant or were personal. :rolleyes:

http://ixian.ca/pics8/letter2.jpg

MuellerNick
12-30-2010, 06:02 AM
I have expertise in many fields. Medicine is one of them.

Yes, we all know. It would make things shorter if you list the fields you are NOT an expert at.


Do you not see the irony of contributing to this thread if that is what you think?

There is no irony at all, when naming things the way they are. You won't stop me saying what I think by this simplistic logic that -as so many times before- just wants to exclude other opinions from your discussion.


I have no idea why this thread has take this turn except for the unrelated and irrelevant comments at the beginning by several members.

So you wonder about unrelated and irrelevant comments while the thread itself is already unrelated and irrelevant right from the very start? You even add more unrelatedness and irrelevance later on by yourself. And then complain about it.
You are really kaput.



What is obvious is that you for some reason feel threatened by me.

You are no threat to me, you are a threat to the forum. You are nothing more than an scheming person. This thread shows it, others show it.


Nick

Allan Waterfall
12-30-2010, 06:22 AM
I snipped parts that weren't relevant or were personal. :rolleyes:

http://ixian.ca/pics8/letter2.jpg
So why show two different edited versions of a supposedly original letter?


Allan

MCS
12-30-2010, 06:37 AM
2 Different letters.

One starting with "Dear mr. Williams", the other with "mr. Evan Williams".

Strange, have to go to Wikipedia for the meaning of "snipping".

John Stevenson
12-30-2010, 06:40 AM
I have expertise in many fields.

So has Worzel Gummidge. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worzel_Gummidge

I presume the wiki link is correct, I'm not an expert...........