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View Full Version : Blue or green paints bleach when used on machine tools?



abn
12-17-2003, 07:33 AM
Anyone ever heard of this?

I have some Medium Blue Nason single stage polyurethane that I was going to use for a repaint...but then I came across this:

http://www.cimcool.com/newpaint.pdf

They seem to specify blue and green in particular as fade prone, wont all colors fade or stain with time and fluid exposure? What's so special about blue and green?



[This message has been edited by abn (edited 12-17-2003).]

Evan
12-17-2003, 12:37 PM
The pigments used in paints (and other things) all have different chemical properties. Ford used black laquer for the Model T because it dried fast and didn't fade since it is pigmented with carbon black. Red pigment is the most susceptible to fading from UV exposure. Green and blue paints are often pigmented with copper compounds such as chlorinated Copper Phthalocyanine. This is a halogenated copper compound and is quite stable. However, greys are made with mixtures of titanium dioxide and carbon black. This combination is especially stable and non-reactive. Also, a color shift is much more noticable to the eye than a grey shift. I learned a lot about pigments working for Xerox.

darryl
12-17-2003, 03:37 PM
Interesting stuff about coloring paints. I had an archer's bow which had a green fiberglass layer within the laminations. That bow always had a problem with it's alignment, as did other bows with the green color. Other colored bows in the same line were fine. We had it nailed down to sunlight, indoors it was ok, outdoors it would tend to warp one way or the other. The manufacturer discontinued the green color.

Evan
12-17-2003, 04:14 PM
Darryl,

Aside from black, green is the most efficient color to absorb heat.

BillH
12-17-2003, 04:44 PM
That explains why a 5$ green fiberglass bow I bought at a tag sale warped into a pretzel when I left it in the car in the sun light.

Evan
12-17-2003, 07:50 PM
A little off the thread of this topic but if anyone is interested in knowing how to set up their computer system to print color as well as possible I have a tutorial online here:

http://vts.bc.ca/color.htm

PolskiFran
12-17-2003, 08:03 PM
I once used a "Butyl" degreaser for cleaning down a lathe. It really brightened up the old Clausing Grey but nearly wiped out the red on gearbox chart, it turned it light pink. This stuff really works well on the grease and oil but plays havoc on certain color paints (and your hands if you don't wear rubber gloves).
Frank

rockrat
12-19-2003, 11:22 PM
Did I read that article correctly? IMRON paint for the lathe? Doesnt IMRON run a few hundered dollars a gallon? Man, I would hate to paint my lathe with it and then make hot chips to throw all over the glossy paint. rr

Forrest Addy
12-19-2003, 11:32 PM
As in beer consumption, paint is in a similar sense "rented" when applied to a machine tool. If your using your machine tools for what they were intended the paint will wear away in areas of chip flow.

Durable paint makes sense but preserving a like new appearance of a machine tool at the expense of productivity is contrary to its function.

Doc Nickel
12-19-2003, 11:53 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rockrat:
Did I read that article correctly? IMRON paint for the lathe? Doesnt IMRON run a few hundered dollars a gallon?</font>

-When's the last time you priced automotive paint in general?

A typical gallon of basecoat/clearcoat Urethane in anything but white or black is $100 to $400 a gallon. That "chromagraphic" irridescent stuff might be $100 a pint. I had a car painted with some cheap enamel a few years back, and a gallon of that cost me $55 plus tax.

IMRON is old hat these days, no longer the pinnacle either chemcially/durability or in price.

Doc.

CCWKen
12-20-2003, 01:40 AM
Ops! The Ford Model T was NOT painted with black lacquer. Japan Black was used on some parts (Fenders, engine pan, dash panel, etc.) but the bodies were "squirted" with VARNISH. Also, not all Model T's were Black. From 1909 to about 1914, Red, White, Green, Blue and Grey were also available. "Lacquer" was not used until the Model A (1928).

You shouldn't have to wory about polyurethane fading unless you run your machines outside. One way to add UV protection is to clear-coat. Most of todays clear coats (automotive) have UV inhibitors added. The clear coat can be applied over the paint without further prep. You should clear coat within 4 hours.

Forgot to mention: Make sure you HAVE polyurethane. Nason's single-stage is usually Acrylic Enamel Not urethane. The urethanes REQUIRE a clear coat. The AE's do not but should be used with a hardner.


[This message has been edited by CCWKen (edited 12-20-2003).]

Thrud
12-20-2003, 01:42 AM
Doc
DuPonts Chrome Allusions lenticular paint is $500/pint (cheap!)

Evan
12-20-2003, 03:03 AM
Ken,

You are undoughtedly right. However the main point is that it is pigmented with carbon black, just about the most durable pigment there is since it is an element, not a compound.

rockrat
12-20-2003, 10:15 AM
Yikes, I painted the '67 Mustang in 1990. I thought that the color for it was about $50-$75. PPG was the brand, I think. I would have to go through the file to see. Well, I guess that is the drawback to getting old, sticker shock. rr

abn
12-20-2003, 11:05 PM
Seems like just yesterday, but it's been a year. Had the '69 Mustang painted last December with PPG Deltron basecoat clear coat. Materials were almost $600...

I was originally going to go cheap with a Nason single stage...but the situation changed and I was able to go with better materials. So now I've got the Nason left over and I thought I'd use it on my mill...

CCWKen
12-21-2003, 12:16 AM
You are right Evan. If you've ever gotten Pitch Black paint on your hands, it usually has to wear off. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif Also, that urethane windshield adhesive can really be a mess! That stuff takes forever to wear off. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

ABN: For durability, I'd use a hardner with your Nason. Just be careful and use a certified mask and full skin coverage, even during mixing. The isocyonates in the hardner are 10 times as toxic as arsenic.

rockrat
12-22-2003, 07:21 PM
That windshield sealant is tough, but... The guy that came and raplaced the windshield in my stang had a little container of wipes that took off the sealer like nuthin'. If you ever have to change the glass, ask the auto guys where you buy the sealer for the hand cleaner that goes with it.